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Chris Randall's thoughts on the industry : It's not a memo...
Old 9th September 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Chris Randall's thoughts on the industry : It's not a memo...

Another point of view from someone who is involved with the music industry, and also software development.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14963589/Ha...ny_Matches.pdf

If you don't know who Chris Randall is, he is a musician who used to be in a band called 'Sister Machine Gun', and he is also half of 'Audio Damage', a company which make effects and virtual instruments

Websites for Chris and Audio Damage:

Home | analogindustries.com
Audio Damage :: Home
Old 9th September 2012
  #2
Eat
Lives for gear
 

i usually can't stand reading more than a few inches of text on a computer display but i read all that because i agree.... a truly fulfilled life involves a 'letting go' and a 'damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead' thing... whether its becoming the biggest greediest capitalist or the most spiritualized anti materialist mountain top meditator.

you know these guys are not going to agree. as one would probably say...'without the industry, there never would have been an 'afternoon delight' in the first place for you to have your little memory flashback etc etc...

may you live in interesting times.... unfortunately for some, myself included, these are transition times for certain industries and very likely the world economy as a whole.

i mean, look... at some point modern day capitalism will cease to exist and be just another chapter in the history books... digital, holographic or otherwise.

its perfectly understandable... these guys are fighting for their livelihood and their life's definition.
Old 9th September 2012
  #3
He's not saying anything new, he's not offering any solutions and he isn't giving a free pass to freehadists.

All he is saying is what we already know. Keep working and hopefully it will get better.

Where he is categorically wrong is here:

Quote:
"People in my peer group generally make the point that “well, **** is all ****ed up. Damn. Thanks, Internet!” That devastating argument aside, in my honest assessment, the opportunities are far greater now, and the rewards as ample or perhaps even more so."
If there are more opportunities today for musicians, they are not opportunities that expand a middle class of professional musicians.

the facts are will documented here:

If the Internet is working for Musicians, Why aren’t more Musicians Working Professionally? | The Trichordist

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/perm...20824recording

and are the result of this:

Artists, Know Thy Enemy – Who’s Ripping You Off and How… | The Trichordist

and he knows this to be factually true...
Quote:
Neither do I want to come off as a neck-bearded freetard. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are not many groups of people I disdain more than the Doctorow mashup crowd and their inspired thinking that art + art = better art, and everybody has the right, nay, the responsibility to make their own Mickey Mouse movies. If that’s the sort of thing that floats your boat, so be it, but on your head. Jaron Lanier, in his excellent book You Are Not A Gadget, does a much better job of taking apart these digital Maoists, as as he calls them, than I ever could.
I've known Chris since SMG was first signed. He's a really, really, really nice guy. But he's also misinformed about the facts, and misinformed about solutions. Positive change doesn't come from giving up. If you don't fight for your rights, you'll end up with none.
Old 9th September 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
You, on the other hand, are most likely not ...(A SPECIAL FLOWER)

I don't like Chris anymore


thanks for the linky



99% of the "common" folk really don't posses anymore than a shallow , distorted thumbnail sketch of the music Industry or how it's many facets function now or used to function . Rationalizations also make revisionist history the style of the day, and outright propaganda are promulgated as fact.


At some point (maybe) our fearless leaders (might) get around to straightening it out ... Until then , say goodbye to meritocracy ( my special flower !!)



Old 9th September 2012
  #5
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I'd also like to see an essay from Chris about how he just "let's go " when folks use his dsp pluggs for free.... he still sees fit to use serial # copy protection ;.. why??? Allot of dsp guys have given up even on that ! But all is well ??

IT's funny , he has made a transition into the dream merchant class , selling dsp widgets that folks can accessorize there paint by numbers DAW's with. He also never touched upon pure songwriters ( the most forgotten species of all in this novel) who existed mostly because of their small slice of the revenue streams from physical media . The very last thing you want to be right now is a non-performing songwriter ...

Meh ; who needs em


****ing songs are so easy to write ! Push the quanitize button and your half way there !!!!!
Old 9th September 2012
  #6
Hmm, he seems badly misinformed on several levels.
I'll just pick one small example, but there are many more....
>It's relatively easy to get into the music industry and earn a living. Session musicians do it all the time.<
Err..... ok
I wish I'd known that when i was sweating my guts out and feeling intense pressure trying to establish myself as a studio player. Meanwhile, many people exactly like me were giving up, or being discouraged by harsh criticism from recording engineers and producers.
I don't know the guy, I'll take the advice that he's a really nice guy. No problem with that.
I've bought and enjoyed using a couple of Audio Damage plug-ins. Very good products.
Old 9th September 2012
  #7
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Chris rocks.
Old 9th September 2012
  #8
Your pre-teen daughters don't think he sounds "old"?
Old 10th September 2012
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Your pre-teen daughters don't think he sounds "old"?
Hey, I still remember where I was the first time I heard that song.

Little girls think anything made before 2006 is "old", although one of them loves to pretend she's Sean Yseult from Whie Zombie and air band with a bass guitar...

They place no monetary value on recorded music either, and that's the future we'll all have to deal with.
Old 10th September 2012
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
They place no monetary value on recorded music either, and that's the future we'll all have to deal with.
Perhaps proper parenting would fix that.
Old 10th September 2012
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Willing View Post
Perhaps proper parenting would fix that.
They stream off YouTube all day, how can I fix that?
Old 10th September 2012
  #12
Eat
Lives for gear
 

c*p*t*lists will sell the rope with which they'll hang themselves. heh
Old 10th September 2012
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
They stream off YouTube all day, how can I fix that?
Don't take this personally - this is all in the spirit of discussion.

Of course you can't fix it. That is the easy thing to say. I can't believe that you would let your children sit in front of a computer all day. I don't believe that your children load up YouTube, hop on their bikes, and ride away and that is how they listen to music.

Using technology as a scapegoat for bad parenting is a lazy way out.

That is my opinion.

That said - being a parent is difficult and stressing that free (stealing) music hurts an industry and ultimately many people you don't know is probably the last thing that you are concerned with.
Old 10th September 2012
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat View Post
c*p*t*lists will sell the rope with which they'll hang themselves. heh
But the freetards are already hung... They will not enjoy the quality of music that once was, because they don't even "value" what they listen to.

Quote:
I can't believe that you would let your children sit in front of a computer all day. I don't believe that your children load up YouTube, hop on their bikes, and ride away and that is how they listen to music.
That's how kids listen to music now, on their laptops. Sit on the computer all day? No, but having them learn computer skills will put them ahead of parents who don't.
Old 10th September 2012
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Willing View Post
I don't believe that your children load up YouTube, hop on their bikes, and ride away and that is how they listen to music.
Well you can load up YouTube (or Pandora or whatever) on your cellphone and ride off on your bike.

Did people in the 60s give other parents **** when their kids rode off on their bikes listening to their transistor radios?
Old 10th September 2012
  #16
Gear Nut
 

What does their a learning computer skill have to do with what I said?

Again - my opinion - if they are stealing the music and a parent is letting them get away with it, that is bad parenting. If they can learn C++ they can learn between what is right and what is wrong.
Old 10th September 2012
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray View Post
Well you can load up YouTube (or Pandora or whatever) on your cellphone and ride off on your bike.

Did people in the 60s give other parents **** when their kids rode off on their bikes listening to their transistor radios?
Who is giving anyone ****?
Old 10th September 2012
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Willing View Post
What does their a learning computer skill have to do with what I said?

Again - my opinion - if they are stealing the music and a parent is letting them get away with it, that is bad parenting. If they can learn C++ they can learn between what is right and what is wrong.
LOL, So YouTube is stealing? Tell that to Google. But you can't because the tech industry doesn't give a **** about you being a "special flower".
Old 10th September 2012
  #19
Eat
Lives for gear
 

screw the music biz. whats scary is that the only decent paying employment will be highly specialized... and even those more scarce... as pure information technology will do virtually all the manufacturing and service providing... hell, even medical procedures are being done by robots.
Old 10th September 2012
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post


Chris rocks.
well - chris thought he did. he was largely seen as a joke in the industrial music scene in the 90s. sister machine gun never really was taken seriously. just saying. tvt/waxtrax threw a lot of money at sister machine gun after they lost nine inch nails to interscope. ultimately kmfdm was the cred band on that roster. i always liked chris as a person through, he was a nice guy even if he is still grossly misinformed on the facts.
Old 10th September 2012
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
LOL, So YouTube is stealing? Tell that to Google.
ok...

Viacom vs. YouTube/Google: A Piracy Case in Their Own Words - DailyFinance
Quote:
Karim even stole and posted some himself -- while Hurley fretted over the potential liability. Some of the sample emails:

• On June 15, 2005, Chen emailed the other founders that YouTube's Internet service provider was complaining that YouTube was violating the service agreement, and Chen thought YouTube's hosting of copyrighted material might be the problem. Noting "i'm not about to take down content because our ISP is giving us ****," Chen proposed YouTube consider changing ISPs.

• A July 4 email from Hurley noted Bud Light commercials on YouTube, saying "we need to reject these too." The other founders pushed back, suggesting they leave them up for "a couple more weeks." A July 10 email discussion of leaving some copyrighted material up while rejecting other copyrighted material included Hurley's comment: "ok man, save your meal money for lawsuits! no really, I guess we'll just see what happens." Another July 10 email among the three included Hurley's admission that, "Yup, we need views. I'm a little concerned with the recent Supreme Court decision on copyrighted material though," referring to the Grokster case.

• On July 19, Chen wrote to Hurley and Karim: "Jawed, please stop putting stolen videos on the site. We're going to have a tough time defending the fact that we're not liable for the copyrighted material on the site because we didn't put it up when one of the co-founders is blatantly stealing content from from other sites and trying to get everyone to see it." Four days later, Karim sent a link to the other founders, and Hurley told him that if they rejected it, they needed to reject all copyrighted material. Karim's reply: "I say we reject this one but not the others. This one is totally blatant."

• A July 29 email conversation about competing video sites laid out the importance to YouTube of continuing to use the copyrighted material. "Steal it!" Chen said , and got a reply from Hurley, "hmmm, steal the movies?" Chen's answer: "we have to keep in mind that we need to attract traffic. how much traffic will we get from personal videos? remember, the only reason our traffic surged was due to a video of this type."

• In early August, Hurley sent a couple of emails pushing to get the copyrighted material off the site, explaining that the risk in copyright infringement was that it might anger potential suitors, scuttling a deal to buy YouTube. (The founders wanted to sell out as quickly as possible.) Hurley used the example of a CNN clip of the Space Shuttle. Chen said the copyrighted material should stay: "I really don't see what will happen. what? someone from cnn sees it? he happens to be someone with power? he happens to want to take it down right away, he get in touch with cnn legal. 2 weeks later, we get a cease & desist letter. we take the video down." Karim chimes in the next day, "lets remove stuff like movies/tv shows. lets keep short news clips for now. we can get stricter over time, just not overnight."

• On Sept. 3, Hurley emailed the other two founders re: "copyright material!!! "aaahhh, the site is starting to get out of control with copyrighted material." During the course of the email conversation, Karim reiterated his suggestion of taking down movies and TV, and leaving the rest; Chen replied that if it did so, YouTube would go from about 100,000 views a day to 20,000; Jawed disagreed, saying his proposed policy was so lax he didn't think the site's traffic would decrease at all. On Sept. 4, a user emailed Karim and others at YouTube, pointing out clips from Chappelle's Show, and asking if they were worried about getting sued like Napster; Karim replied "ahaha."

• On Sept. 7, YouTube launched a community flagging system that enabled users to flag copyrighted content for YouTube to take down. The goal was to create "the perception" that YouTube was concerned about copyright, but the "actual removal will be in varying degrees." A couple of weeks later, YouTube discontinued the community flagging system for copyright. YouTube said the effort was flawed, and following outside counsel's advice, started using a take down-upon notice system as envisioned by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Viacom notes an email from Hurley asking for the flagging system to stop because YouTube was being put on notice of problems, and it was better if YouTube just let copyright owners notify it directly.
Old 10th September 2012
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
LOL, So YouTube is stealing? Tell that to Google. But you can't because the tech industry doesn't give a **** about you being a "special flower".
All it takes is politicians who have a backbone and who want to exercise their responsibilities as elected officials of the people instead of being pawns of a sillycon valley corporate oligarcy....






( translation ; were doomed !!)
Old 10th September 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatfinger View Post
All it takes is politicians who have a backbone and who want to exercise their responsibilities as elected officials of the people instead of being pawns of a sillycon valley corporate oligarcy....






( translation ; were doomed !!)
Exactly, Imagine if one of the presidential candidates said "I'm getting rid of copyright infringing material on YouTube" ... they would loose the election.

And that's just how Google would play it, and they have on SOPA, and won.
Old 10th September 2012
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
Exactly, Imagine if one of the presidential candidates said "I'm getting rid of copyright infringing material on YouTube" ... they would loose the election.

And that's just how Google would play it, and they have on SOPA, and won.
That's a big reach... what DC learned from earlier this year is just how dishonest silicon valley really is. Congressional Staffers who took the brunt of it are now turned against Google and the Valley in a major way after having such a massive and dishonest disinformation campaign launched at them. It's such a big problem that Google has to now work on damage control. There are not a lot of people in DC sympathetic to thieving/infringing internet companies since January... regardless of what you see in the mainstream...
Old 10th September 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
That's a big reach... what DC learned from earlier this year is just how dishonest silicon valley really is. Congressional Staffers who took the brunt of it are now turned against Google and the Valley in a major way after having such a massive and dishonest disinformation campaign launched at them. It's such a big problem that Google has to now work on damage control. There are not a lot of people in DC sympathetic to thieving/infringing internet companies since January... regardless of what you see in the mainstream...
Big reach? I'm not so sure. Google's word is golden to people who have no idea what IP actually is. They have the power to influence millions of people with a single graphic.

Old 10th September 2012
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted View Post
Big reach? I'm not so sure. Google's word is golden to people who have no idea what IP actually is. They have the power to influence millions of people with a single graphic.
as I've said, they blew their wad with that stunt... and they'll come to the table one way or the other...
Old 11th September 2012
  #27
Gear Maniac
 

is to watch the youtube stealing? My brother in UK would never touch a torrent and he works as vidio production, but wants to see sokewthing goes to the youtube
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