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I think the reason music sales are in massive decline is:
Old 8th September 2012
  #391
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Muser's Avatar
Quote:
heh
Old 8th September 2012
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
Can you still buy DRMed music?
All the stuff I bought on iTunes 3 years ago is and locked to apple devises or software. I stopped buying from there when I found that out.

I was just illustrating some reasons why some people do it; if the legal way is harder than the illegal way, people are going to do it the easy way.
Old 8th September 2012
  #393
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathromantik View Post
All the stuff I bought on iTunes 3 years ago is and locked to apple devises or software. I stopped buying from there when I found that out.

I was just illustrating some reasons why some people do it; if the legal way is harder than the illegal way, people are going to do it the easy way.
you can replace those tracks with non-drm versions. itunes hasn't had DRM since like 2006... when Amazon Mp3 launched all DRM ended...

kind of a bummer for Microsoft and Sony, who both shuttered online music stores because they were non-apple compatible drm (windows media).

so the DRM "it's harder" argument is no longer valid and hasn't been for years.

a more detailed history on digital music and DRM is here:
How the RIAA failed the recorded music industry...
Old 8th September 2012
  #394
Gear Addict
 

Being locked into using iTunes or an iPod is still kind of DRM. Personally I think that iTunes exploits the artists too as they don't get much from the sales.
If I buy an album it should be lossless, I should be able to play it on my iRiver, convert it to FLAC, play in the media player software that I choose.

Personally I would much rather buy the CD/LP off the bands' websites or from my local independent record store that supports the kinds of music I like.

I have seen some bands make efforts to make buying the music more attractive though, Things like it coming with jewellery that the band members make, pre-order only t-shirts/hoodies and even really elaborate boxed sets.

For me the biggest reason why I don't buy music is that I don't have the money. The price of living has gone up and wages have stayed the same. But there is no way that I am going to rip off artists either; it would be hypocritical of me to want to make money out of music but not pay for it.
Old 8th September 2012
  #395
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I don't care what you think your so called statistics say. Being able to buy a single song for .99 cents vs dealing with 10 songs of fluff on a so called "album" is definitly a contributing factor and I'll prove it. go look through your statistics and show me the % of increase in commecrial eps and singles since the era of digital downloads. Look at up comming djs on the scene, Avicii levels 4 tracks of the same song is somehow a "ep" Skrillex bangerang was 7 several of them crap scarey monsters and sprites 3 of the 9 songs are remixes. Vs old school like paul van dyk 15 tracks on his last cd and armin van buuren mirage 16 tracks on his cd the only one new that's close to putting out actual albums is deadmau5.
Old 8th September 2012
  #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye View Post
.

Personally, I think this recurring topic being beaten to death is just plain old silly.

Since when have musicians EVER made any real money AS A DEMOGRAPHIC?

All this entitlement is insane.

Musicians have mostly always be broke - and I don't see this changing anytime soon.

So many of our arguments PRESUME musicians somehow DESERVE income.

And again - the REASON this supposition is SILLY - is because it's almost NEVER been true in our history.

EVEN when music was supposedly MORE VALUABLE (in our fabulously inaccurate 20/20 hindsight).

So where did this fantasy about musicians being entitled to earn a living come from?

I submit to you that it was almost ENTIRELY fabricated by a few hippies smoking pot in their dorm room, before they were evicted from school. And they were probably philosophy majors - not even musicians.

Anyway, I wish you all the best, and hope you're able to join the real world sometime in the near future.

Because life is EXPENSIVE and short, and paying for survival by creating music seems like a shoddy plan, to say the least.

I know a FEW of you can and / or will prove me wrong. To you, I say KUDOS! You should indeed celebrate yourselves, because you are among the very few in the club.

Cheers!


.
THIS. So when only a handful of corporate labels controlled the world, they were paying all their artists an incredibly fair sum? 9-12% as standard after recouping costs is more like it. And, many/most artists got ripped off horrifically. They always have. People are acting like it was some shangri la. Maybe for the 1% but not for most. People used to tour, often at a loss, to sell albums. Now they make albums, often at a loss, to tour. I'm not saying its a zero sum game but have you gone to a show lately? Here in Portland typical hip shows are $15-20 at the cheap venues, $20-50 at the decent venues, and $60-400 for a seat at the bigger venues.

As the middle class of America has disappeared, ironically the middle class of musicians has risen. I would argue that for those middle class artists the scene is better now than in the old days of the 90's. Sure, there are a lot less U2's and Led Zeppelin's (essentially none in fact) but there are 1000 Grizzly Bears and Dirty Projectors out there, and those bands are pretty awesome. Eventually this is going to make local scenes thrive and communities of musicians rise with the internet as a global support and sharing network instead of a few ubiquitous idols standing above all.

Bands today have way more direct control over the sound of their recordings, frequently own the masters, often have much more equitable deals or distribute their own, and have licensing opportunities that were not there before. The money may be significantly less relative to status and fame as before, but at least there is an opportunity whereas before there would be a much greater chance for obscurity. I have mixed several regional and local bands this year that have had their songs on MTV, reality shows, movies, etc. None are "signed". How would that have happened in 1980?

I am not saying pirating is right or the system is where it should be at all, but nearly everyone in the world is struggling financially. Would I like to get paid more for my studio work? You bet, but the inability of the labels and apparently even professionals on places like gearslutz to accept a new reality is astounding. This isn't going away. Even if they take away the entire internet, there will be an internet 2.0 within months. Why is there no subscription service a la Netflix? Why has the industry refused to stand on quality? Itunes is a joke. Their "lossless" files sound like screechy poo. CD was a stop gap solution and bad enough. I wouldn't take their 128 mp3's for free.

Lastly, there are MANY people who "steal" a file to check a band out and then either forget/delete it if they don't like it or go see the overpriced show/buy the vinyl/buy the cd later on. What artist would choose to have that person not know their music at all instead of accepting that the file is out there and that it can lead to downline revenue and cheap word of mouth advertising? To equate file sharing as dollar for dollar the equivalent of stealing a physical product from a store denounces the entire chain of middle people involved from production to purchase in a store. And to do so while giving a pass to the Comcasts and Googles of the world is pathetic. We have to do a better job of rethinking than that.
Old 8th September 2012
  #397
I just bought my first physical artist release a week ago, in 5 years since I was collecting hardcore punk vinyl.

I've been supporting underground music before I could drive a car and too this day I still support artists. Whether it be merch, tickets, even donations I respect there hustle.

G recognize G
Old 8th September 2012
  #398
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
. Or the Eurthymics in 84 and Modern Romance. One great - one ****e.

sorry, could you clear up which was which with this point. Thanks.
Old 8th September 2012
  #399
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathromantik View Post
The problem with that is DRM that punishes the people who buy it, and if you don't have a credit card you can't buy anything.
There hasn't been DRM for years.

Pretty much all stores i walk into these days sell download cards. You don't need a credit card, cash works just as well.
Old 8th September 2012
  #400
Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos30 View Post
I don't care what you think your so called statistics say.
yes, yes, yes... just the facts, sorry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos30 View Post
go look through your statistics and show me the % of increase in commecrial eps and singles since the era of digital downloads.
more specifically...

the funny thing is, digital downloads started before they were legal... and even funnier, that's when the decline in paid sales began, and even more funny... the rate of decline did not increase with ala carte song sales.

in other words, 99 cent songs have had no effect on the rate of decline of sales for over a decade. sorry, but those are the facts.
Old 8th September 2012
  #401
Quote:
Originally Posted by skythemusic View Post
THIS. So when only a handful of corporate labels controlled the world, they were paying all their artists an incredibly fair sum? 9-12% as standard after recouping costs is more like it. And, many/most artists got ripped off horrifically. They always have. People are acting like it was some shangri la. Maybe for the 1% but not for most.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skythemusic View Post
As the middle class of America has disappeared, ironically the middle class of musicians has risen.
this is both factually inaccurate and an outright lie.

you are wrong.

there are less people making a living making music today, and of those who are, they are making less.

If the Internet is working for Musicians, Why aren’t more Musicians Working Professionally? | The Trichordist
Old 8th September 2012
  #402
Quote:
Originally Posted by skythemusic View Post
To equate file sharing as dollar for dollar the equivalent of stealing a physical product from a store denounces the entire chain of middle people involved from production to purchase in a store. And to do so while giving a pass to the Comcasts and Googles of the world is pathetic. We have to do a better job of rethinking than that.
this may interest you...

Artists, Know Thy Enemy – Who’s Ripping You Off and How… | The Trichordist

Neko Case Exploited by Macy’s, Levi’s, Princess Cruises, Skype, Yahoo, Marvel and Electronic Arts | The Trichordist

Aimee Mann Exploited by Russian Brides, Wells Fargo Bank and Nationwide Insurance
Old 8th September 2012
  #403
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathromantik View Post
Being locked into using iTunes or an iPod is still kind of DRM.
I use both iTunes software and an iPod and I'm not locked into anything.
I regularly buy music from independent sites and load it on to my iPod.
I very, very rarely buy music from iTunes.
Old 9th September 2012
  #404
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In a somewhat fruitless attempt to force you to use iTunes, Apple obfuscates the protocol between their iProducts and PCs.
Old 9th September 2012
  #405
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jrhager84's Avatar
 

Sqye,

You think you make sense, but you don't. Please stop?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
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Old 9th September 2012
  #406
Quote:
Originally Posted by freetard View Post
In a somewhat fruitless attempt to force you to use iTunes, Apple obfuscates the protocol between their iProducts and PCs.
What apple iproducts are incompatible with PC's? As far as I know all iproducts sync to itunes which runs on windows...
Old 9th September 2012
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
What apple iproducts are incompatible with PC's? As far as I know all iproducts sync to itunes which runs on windows...
What he's saying is iTunes (TM Apple) is the *only* legitimate software you can use to sync your iProducts to your PC. Even on windows, they're watching you. Just my colorful interpretation...
Old 9th September 2012
  #408
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
What he's saying is iTunes (TM Apple) is the *only* legitimate software you can use to sync your iProducts to your PC. Even on windows, they're watching you. Just my colorful interpretation...
ok, but why shouldn't it be?

so you think apple is watching you via itunes, but google isn't via search?

and to mention the rest of the google ecosystem... which now requires a gmail account (youtube, blogger, docs, etc).
Old 9th September 2012
  #409
Old 9th September 2012
  #410
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jrhager84's Avatar
 

You're insinuating that I'm *agreeing* with what he's saying, simply because I explained *what* he said.

A foolish presumption, no?
Old 9th September 2012
  #411
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
Sqye,

You think you make sense, but you don't. Please stop?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777

+1
Old 9th September 2012
  #412
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
You're insinuating that I'm *agreeing* with what he's saying, simply because I explained *what* he said.

A foolish presumption, no?
sorry not directed at you specifically, but more so the idea of what was expressed.
Old 10th September 2012
  #413
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freetard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
What he's saying is iTunes (TM Apple) is the *only* legitimate software you can use to sync your iProducts to your PC. Even on windows, they're watching you. Just my colorful interpretation...
Yes, it seems that Apple tries to make you use their proprietary music player to interface with iProducts by utilizing an obfuscated USB protocol. The vast majority of other devices use standard protocols like Mass Storage or Media Transfer Protocol.

Personally, I view attempts to skirt established technical standards for the purposes of locking products to other products to be malicious behavior (hell, Microsoft got sued pretty hard for similar behaviors in the 90s). Other people seem to think this is an acceptable business practice. Your mileage may vary.

In addition to what you state, this also has the (perhaps unintended side effect) of making it difficult to synchronize iProducts with operating systems that Apple has not ported their proprietary music player to. Although enterprising individuals have reverse engineered this protocol, I've never attempted to sync an iProduct on my chosen operating system, largely because I don't own any at the moment. So I can't really tell you how well this actually works.
Old 10th September 2012
  #414
Gear Addict
 

iPods are overpriced considering the other players on the market that support more formats, have radio and have expandable storage.
My media player has all that and it cost $100 less than the iPod with the same amount of storage.
There is better media playing software around too.
Old 10th September 2012
  #415
Gear Addict
 

Congratulations. That was an interesting side journey, glad we're all happy with our music playback systems.

Given that every portable music player on the market today plays the files that apple is selling, I'm not sure why it's relevant, tho, to why rack gear can't sell his old camper van beethoven cds. I'm sure he'll post the same 40 trichordist links tho to get us back on track.
Old 10th September 2012
  #416
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Quote:
Quite a stupid analysis in my opinion. The quality of pop music has not changed, just accessibility.
I'm not so sure about that.
Recent "mainstream" music is often less melodic, but the harmony and the rythm aren't more sophisticated than in the old pop songs, so I don't see any progression in that direction, actually the songs are much simpler, but at the same time not that "easy listening". And the abuse of the digital technology has wiped out every bit of soul. And I still don't get it why all of those top 10 songs don't have any groove.

At the same time I know that lots of great music is being produced, but it somehow doesn't make it to the radio.

And while I like the analog gear I wouldn't say that I'm conservative about the music, I like modern music, but not the one where more time was spent tuning the vocals than writing and arranging the song.

And if someone thinks that the radio audience won't accept anything more complex than a perfect fifth, just listen to the intro of the Jamiroquai's Virtual Insanity which reached #1 in some countries in '96/'97.

Anyway I can't find any arguments why the "mainstream" music is better nowdays, but I can find many arguments why it's worse. If someone can tell me enough arguments I may think again.
Old 10th September 2012
  #417
Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
Congratulations. That was an interesting side journey, glad we're all happy with our music playback systems.
Are you sure about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
Given that every portable music player on the market today plays the files that apple is selling, I'm not sure why it's relevant, tho, to why rack gear can't sell his old camper van beethoven cds. I'm sure he'll post the same 40 trichordist links tho to get us back on track.
It's funny how I have been accused of being a lot of people over the years here on gearslutz, but this is the funniest. For a while I people thought I was Paul Reznikoff too...
Old 10th September 2012
  #418
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
At the same time I know that lots of great music is being produced, but it somehow doesn't make it to the radio.
it takes a lot of money to get songs on the radio and if the label isn't going to be able to recoup that investment they start looking at projects that will have the widest possible crossover appeal...

there's an old saying, "you don't miss your water till your well runs dry."
Old 10th September 2012
  #419
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Radio? What does radio have to do with the music industry these days?

That's a horse drawn cart as far as most are concerned.
Old 10th September 2012
  #420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camera View Post
Radio? What does radio have to do with the music industry these days?

That's a horse drawn cart as far as most are concerned.
Digital Music News - Study: FM Radio Is Still the Biggest Source for Music Discovery...
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