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To put my music out on the internet or not....
Old 22nd August 2012
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr lee View Post
....it's not secure. Anyone can rip a track off the internet.
Let me fix that for you....


Quote:
Anyone can rip a track. You can't stop it, nor should you worry about it.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #62
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Quote:
There is, of course, a huge, random sector of the net that is not manipulated by power gatekeepers, but the masses never get exposed to that sector because of it's diversity, size and content. You create your own compartmentalized bubble of influence within this sector, and 50 or 100 people pay attention, if you're lucky. It's almost impossible to bust out of that low-level gigantic cluster F of data to a larger audience, partly because of its inherent characteristics, and partly because access to the upper level sectors is limited by how much marketing money and know-how you can invest.
Ok, what are we talking about ? If you're the next David Guetta, if you sound "top 40" enough, maybe you should keep your tracks to pitch to the right people in the industry, or at least people who know people who know the right people... But, we are speaking about "underground" elctronic music. I know very few "power gatekeepers" that will invest (even time) into this kind of niche market. Even if you can find a label, how does this transalte in terms of exposure ? 100-200 tracks sold on beatport ? And of course next to no money after the label took its cut.

Quote:
True, but I'm wondering if something like Bandcamp is a waste of time. I still want to be selective where I put my music out. Bandcamp may be less for exposure like Soundcloud, and more for selling. I could be wrong. I do love the simple interface of Bandcamp.
I dont see anything bad working with bandcamp or CD Baby or any other way to distribute your music... as long as you don't mind to invest a little time doing it.

Have a nice artist page. It doesn't need to be fancy but informative about your concept, what you can offer as an artist and how to book / contact you. Then have some tracks( or samples) available for free on your page (soundcloud / youtube links) and a clear link to your album on Bandcamp, iTunes or whatever for people who want to support you.

Of course, have a nice press kit (virtual or not) you can send to blogs / website / press that are relevent in your genre. And a selection of tracks to pitch to some DJ.

You don't need to fire all your shots. Release a couple of free tracks and an EP or a 10 tracks album if you have a stock of 20 tracks. You keep 10 tracks if a label contacts you and want unreleased material. Don't forget you can have a Bancamp release and still find a label whishing to have a distribution only deal.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik View Post
Alas, now just to get heard is a big victory in music releases so you have a better chance to get heard with corresponding PR victories if you release music online. Hiding it will not help you.
This makes the most sense.

Pre-interent, who found success by not letting anyone hear their music?
Old 22nd August 2012
  #64
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Audio1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray View Post
This makes the most sense.

Pre-interent, who found success by not letting anyone hear their music?
Milli Vanilli
Old 23rd August 2012
  #65
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aligak View Post
Is it true that if I put my music out on SoundCloud, BandCamp, and other places such as iTunes through a digital distributor such as Label Worx, that my tracks or albums no longer have much of a chance of being picked up by any electronic music labels? I remember back when I used to buy records and CDs that an artist would release on their own label or a "white sleeve" and then if it was well received, it would be taken up by a real label. I have roughly 30 tracks professionally mastered, and now wondering if I should just spam labels with my mp3 uploads of my tracks or put them all up on my own SoundCloud and BandCamp sites and hope some label likes it enough to want to sign me up. Does this even happen anymore?

I honestly DON'T care at all about making money. I have a regular job full-time job (not that it pays so well, but it helps me live comfortably enough). I just want to get my music out there and heard or played for enough people. I've worked too hard for too long for my music to be locked up inside my computer.

P.S. - The thread title should read "To put my music out or not...."

If you don't care about money why would you care about a label? If you truly don't care about making money then just put everything online for the world to hear. Copyright your material before you put it online. Soundcloud can't prevent someone from connecting two audio outputs from their audio interface to a digital recorder so there's no such thing as protection online. If it can be heard, it can be copied-the end. If you truly believe you have something good enough for a major label, do whatever you must to get it heard by relevant people in person.
Old 23rd August 2012
  #66
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio1 View Post
About 15 years experience. Starting DJ'ing what now would be called Oldskool or Rave when I was 18. Played on the same line ups as Jeff Mills, Dave Clarke, Neil Landstrumm, Surgeon, Krafty Kuts, CTRL-Z, Breakfastaz, Rusko, Stanton Warriors, Freq Nasty, Christian Vogel, Tobias Smichdt, Rennie Pilgrem to name a few. Then on to co-promoting. I've been producing for about 4 years now. I'm not anyone special, but when it comes to this area, I know what I'm talking about.

Would you like me to attach a CV?

You made an Album about 10 years ago? Rock? if I'm not mistaken? So how that applies to the world of DJ'ing, I'm not so sure. Maybe your point is valid, I think anyone with any actual experience would know who's advice was legit, this doesn't help the guy who started the thread though.

Congratulations, you managed to use Google to find one old project of mine, thanks for stalking

Thing is, do you actually disagree with my point or are you just obfuscating and being defensive?
Old 23rd August 2012
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by aligak View Post
Is it true that if I put my music out on SoundCloud, BandCamp, and other places such as iTunes through a digital distributor such as Label Worx, that my tracks or albums no longer have much of a chance of being picked up by any electronic music labels? I remember back when I used to buy records and CDs that an artist would release on their own label or a "white sleeve" and then if it was well received, it would be taken up by a real label. I have roughly 30 tracks professionally mastered, and now wondering if I should just spam labels with my mp3 uploads of my tracks or put them all up on my own SoundCloud and BandCamp sites and hope some label likes it enough to want to sign me up. Does this even happen anymore?

I honestly DON'T care at all about making money. I have a regular job full-time job (not that it pays so well, but it helps me live comfortably enough). I just want to get my music out there and heard or played for enough people. I've worked too hard for too long for my music to be locked up inside my computer.

P.S. - The thread title should read "To put my music out or not...."
if exposure is what you want, get exposed. unlikely a label will do a deal for material already released. it can happen, but very rarely. more likely, you would be signed to create new material exclusively for that label.

good luck.
Old 23rd August 2012
  #68
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aligak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
Ok, what are we talking about ? If you're the next David Guetta, if you sound "top 40" enough, maybe you should keep your tracks to pitch to the right people in the industry, or at least people who know people who know the right people... But, we are speaking about "underground" elctronic music. I know very few "power gatekeepers" that will invest (even time) into this kind of niche market. Even if you can find a label, how does this transalte in terms of exposure ? 100-200 tracks sold on beatport ? And of course next to no money after the label took its cut.
Exactly. I'm talking about underground electronic music, NOT the people that fill up festivals / stadiums at EDM shows and make a very good living doing so. Thanks for keeping things in perspective.

David Guetta Power failure @ Tomorrowland 2012

Old 24th August 2012
  #69
HMmmmm.....

You're doing EDM, right? And your primary goal is getting play from DJs in some of the better clubs, not sales per se?

The EDM field is a bit different than the greater music business. I'm not directly involved in it but I have friends who are involved with one of the bigger promotion companies that do raves and other DJ oriented stuff in the western US. My impressions, for whatever they're worth, are as follows:

For what you're doing major labels are pretty much totally irrelevant. The majors don't really do EDM (for the most part, anyway). And these days they're rarely interested in anyone who doesn't already have a proven track record (in any genre.)

Doing limited edition vinyl pressings might be a good idea. Many DJs are still very vinyl oriented. If you do, it would help if you could get distribution from one of the specialist companies that deal with the genre.

Some DJs, however work strictly digitally, so you need to have digital versions available, too.

I don't know about the value of sites like Bandcamp to someone in your position. You could try putting a couple of tracks up and see what the response is. I definitely would resist putting my entire catalog up on a free site initially.

There are bloggers who specialize in the EDM scene and in particular sub-genres. Sending some of you material to these bloggers can help you get noticed by the DJs you want to connect with.

If you can get contact info for the DJs you want to play your stuff, try contacting them directly.

DON'T send either the bloggers or the DJs piles of stuff. Send them select sample cuts as promotional loss leaders.
Old 25th August 2012
  #70
Gear Addict
 

Best of luck to you in your efforts. I still say free music is generally perceived as worth what you payed for it. Better to try to figure out some creative way to imply worth to your target DJ's or whoever before you hand them your music if you want it to be actually heard.
You know, if getting play in some clubs is your end goal, you could explore simply paying one or two DJ's to play your songs once a night or something; not exactly unheard of, you know :-). And who knows? One or two just might even like it give you legitimacy to other DJ's in the area. Record labels have done this stuff for at least 60 years: maybe it's our turn :-) . In the end there's no rules to the game, so don't put any on yourself. Don't hate the playah, hate the game :-) .
Old 25th August 2012
  #71
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aligak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
DON'T send either the bloggers or the DJs piles of stuff. Send them select sample cuts as promotional loss leaders.
Sorry, I don't understand industry jargon such as "select sample cuts as promotional loss leaders". You mean don't have the entire track uploaded? Just a 1 or 2 minute snippet?

I have 6 of my 32 finalized tracks up on Soundcloud. Is that too much. I heard some people recommending 3 or 4 tracks.
Old 25th August 2012
  #72
Gear Addict
 

Personally, I think 3 songs is pushing it. I'd do one or maybe 2. Remember most people will only be mildly curious about your music(if you're lucky); a bunch of songs out there screams free music, and you're right back to low perceived value. Just my two cents.
Old 25th August 2012
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by aligak View Post
Sorry, I don't understand industry jargon such as "select sample cuts as promotional loss leaders". You mean don't have the entire track uploaded? Just a 1 or 2 minute snippet?.
No, you want entire tracks. Just not all you best stuff and make sure that people know it and have a way to reach you for more.
Old 25th August 2012
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASHBOX View Post
Personally, I think 3 songs is pushing it. I'd do one or maybe 2. Remember most people will only be mildly curious about your music(if you're lucky); a bunch of songs out there screams free music, and you're right back to low perceived value. Just my two cents.
Yeah, 3 is probably the most you'd want to do, and only if what you do is more varied that what most EDM guys put out.

One probably isn't enough.

Six looks like you don't value your music.
Old 25th August 2012
  #75
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+1 :-) .
Old 25th August 2012
  #76
Gear Nut
 

i don't understand this thread?

if you want to sell your music, why do you need a label?

what the hell is bandcamp for? you just upload your music and get your money, end of argument.

if you want to list on itunes, just go through cdbaby or whatever vendor has a good deal and you sell your music there.

if you want to sell cd's of your stuff, then sell a few digital ones and save up and then get some cheap limited edition cd's made professionally from china or europe somewhere.

why the hell do you need anyone else to assist you?? am i missing something here?
Unless you are planning to be David Guetta, then by all means, drop the panties and bend over until the special label comes for you.

i say just upload your stuff and sell it yourself.

everyone else does it.

why should you pay someone else to do something you can do yourself? ie, it doesn't take a mathematician to upload to bandcamp or itunes? just follow the instructions!
Old 25th August 2012
  #77
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aligak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundtrackshack View Post
i don't understand this thread?

if you want to sell your music, why do you need a label?

what the hell is bandcamp for? you just upload your music and get your money, end of argument.

if you want to list on itunes, just go through cdbaby or whatever vendor has a good deal and you sell your music there.

if you want to sell cd's of your stuff, then sell a few digital ones and save up and then get some cheap limited edition cd's made professionally from china or europe somewhere.

why the hell do you need anyone else to assist you?? am i missing something here?

i say just upload your stuff and sell it yourself.

everyone else does it.

why should you pay someone else to do something you can do yourself? ie, it doesn't take a mathematician to upload to bandcamp or itunes? just follow the instructions!
I think you need to read more of what was discussed on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundtrackshack View Post
Unless you are planning to be David Guetta, then by all means, drop the panties and bend over until the special label comes for you.
I thought David Guetta does exactly that every time. Am i missing something here?
Old 26th August 2012
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundtrackshack View Post
i don't understand this thread?

if you want to sell your music, why do you need a label?

what the hell is bandcamp for? you just upload your music and get your money, end of argument.

if you want to list on itunes, just go through cdbaby or whatever vendor has a good deal and you sell your music there.

if you want to sell cd's of your stuff, then sell a few digital ones and save up and then get some cheap limited edition cd's made professionally from china or europe somewhere.

why the hell do you need anyone else to assist you?? am i missing something here?
Unless you are planning to be David Guetta, then by all means, drop the panties and bend over until the special label comes for you.

i say just upload your stuff and sell it yourself.

everyone else does it.

why should you pay someone else to do something you can do yourself? ie, it doesn't take a mathematician to upload to bandcamp or itunes? just follow the instructions!
He wants the recognition. Labels are a central hub and provide a platform for this.
Old 26th August 2012
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by aligak View Post
So in my case, is BandCamp a waste of time?
No, I'd say get yourself everywhere on the internet, then you have more of a chance getting picked up. Get your stuff blogged on techno blogs. Need to get your name out as much as possible really.
Old 26th August 2012
  #80
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aligak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusi View Post
No, I'd say get yourself everywhere on the internet, then you have more of a chance getting picked up. Get your stuff blogged on techno blogs. Need to get your name out as much as possible really.
Thanks. Would you say that putting online more than 3 tracks is too much?
Old 26th August 2012
  #81
AyA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusi View Post
No, I'd say get yourself everywhere on the internet, then you have more of a chance getting picked up. Get your stuff blogged on techno blogs. Need to get your name out as much as possible really.
I'd say you need to get your music out... If you want to sell music that is.


I have an awesome name. I was thinking of changing my name to The Overlord of Everything I can see, touch smell **** or cook Ruler of all Lands possessor of all knowledge and beacon to Tits Tim...


I do like Tim, shorting for Timing... Or some ****** from a book Timothy... I think my folks just made it up...

Seriously though, sell your music. Be aware that fame is a spotlight and it's got no filter...
Old 26th August 2012
  #82
Gear Addict
 

I don't get the impression you're willing to put much effort into this, so I'd say go ahead and post them all if it makes you feel good, as I suspect it will. 'Hey, I'm not a professional musician and never will be, but check out my songs'. You just want your songs to be heard by someone/anyone in your world, maybe get some recognition? Just know that most will likely regard your recordings the way they regard having 'free' flyers shoved in their hand on a busy street and avoid you altogether. You can tell people your music's out there, like everyone else.

Serious bands and artists are out there grinding it out on the road and sweating blood, skipping meals and bordering on homeless for years on end. They do all this trying to get the recognition you're hoping to get from a small posting on bandcamp or whatever and still they mostly fail. Do you really hope to accomplish anything at all from posting on one website among thousands and sitting at home? Do you believe actresses still get discovered walking along Hollywood and Vine in L.A. too? :-) . Go ahead and post it all; just don't expect much of any notice; its unrealistic.
Old 26th August 2012
  #83
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aligak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASHBOX View Post
I don't get the impression you're willing to put much effort into this, so I'd say go ahead and post them all if it makes you feel good, as I suspect it will. 'Hey, I'm not a professional musician and never will be, but check out my songs'. You just want your songs to be heard by someone/anyone in your world, maybe get some recognition? Just know that most will likely regard your recordings the way they regard having 'free' flyers shoved in their hand on a busy street and avoid you altogether. You can tell people your music's out there, like everyone else.

Serious bands and artists are out there grinding it out on the road and sweating blood, skipping meals and bordering on homeless for years on end. They do all this trying to get the recognition you're hoping to get from a small posting on bandcamp or whatever and still they mostly fail. Do you really hope to accomplish anything at all from posting on one website among thousands and sitting at home? Do you believe actresses still get discovered walking along Hollywood and Vine in L.A. too? :-) . Go ahead and post it all; just don't expect much of any notice; its unrealistic.
Thanks for your long input, but the impression you've gotten of me is totally wrong. I never mentioned anything about someone/anyone in the world hearing my tracks or that I don't regard myself as a professional musician. I've written well over a hundred tracks under different aliases all on my own without an engineer / producer which is a lot more than what a lot of so-called "pros" do. I feel you've missed the point of any post I've written on this thread.
Old 27th August 2012
  #84
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I have? What I've read seems to indicate a desire to (a) not be a signed artist, and (b) maybe get your songs heard in some local EDM clubs and by a few DJ's. I've also heard you say this isn't about money but about recognition. Not one bit of that says anything other than this being something other than professional, and that it is in fact ego driven. And that's okay, just so you realise that your motivations will stand squarely in the way of your success.
Old 27th August 2012
  #85
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aligak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASHBOX View Post
I've also heard you say this isn't about money but about recognition. Not one bit of that says anything other than this being something other than professional, and that it is in fact ego driven.
Sorry I mistook "professional" for level of technical know-how and perhaps quality, not on whether one earns a living off something although it has the word "profession" in it. I know many musicians who don't or can't earn a living off music although they are very talented and have been doing it for years or decades.
Old 27th August 2012
  #86
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aligak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASHBOX View Post
What I've read seems to indicate a desire to (a) not be a signed artist, and (b) maybe get your songs heard in some local EDM clubs and by a few DJ's.
Please read again. I wrote that it would be ideal to get signed to a decent underground label and get played at a club such as Berghain or Womb. If you knew anything about real electronic dance music, you would know these are far from being local clubs. It is an ideal - something to try aiming for which is why I'm being careful and asking for advice here in the first place.

In addition, I mentioned several times that my work life has been in rather remote regions of the world without much of a music scene, so my only connection the past 3 years with the music I'm interested in is online. The fact that I'm able to keep current and continue producing alone in such a vacuum far away from home while working full-time and undergoing surgery twice due to physical injuries, indicates my level of dedication despite not being the most saavy self-promoter.
Old 27th August 2012
  #87
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Well, I would advise anyone in any genre the same thing, but in your genre I would say it's even more so. Put the song up in video form on YouTube, and share it with everyone you know. If it's good enough, it will catch people's attention, and it will be shared, specifically from strangers to other strangers. Until you have such a track, it's a fruitless discussion. I say this with complete sincerity and wish you success.
Old 27th August 2012
  #88
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aligak's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by petermichael View Post
Well, I would advise anyone in any genre the same thing, but in your genre I would say it's even more so. Put the song up in video form on YouTube, and share it with everyone you know. If it's good enough, it will catch people's attention, and it will be shared, specifically from strangers to other strangers. Until you have such a track, it's a fruitless discussion. I say this with complete sincerity and wish you success.
Thank you. But, do people prefer hearing new music / demos on YouTube compared to Soundcloud or Bandcamp? I've made several YouTube videos for my ambient tracks under a different alias, but not for my techno material. It was easy making slow dreamy videos for ambient, but will probably require me to upgrade to Final Cut from iMovie to do more serious editing and effects. Many YouTube videos simply feature one image or the album cover art, but I think that's pointless. I'll try doing what I can, but it's too bad YouTube has become so popular with music as the sound quality is not so great.
Old 27th August 2012
  #89
Gear Addict
 

I read your thread again. I wonder if you realise the reality of what you seek. Being signed to a small label will likely provide no additional push or promotion for your music; you'll have to either promote yourself, or maybe hire someone I suppose.

Additionally, you've repeatedly mentioned an unwillingness or disinterest in live shows. Short of lucking into a viral video or somehow piggybacking on the promotion of something else, those are the ways an artist becomes known and gets heard. Music critics and music stations(internet and airwave) won't support your music if it's not registered with ASCAP or BMI and commercially available in preferably numerous handy consumer formats; what's the point of reviewing a new song and saying 'well, you have to go on CD Baby and poke around to buy this? That just makes the reviewer or music station look amateurish, and believe me, they're more interested in self-promotion and image than you are.

Without promotion and lots of live performances what you seek is bloody unlikely at the least; even the 'successful' artists you mentioned in your genre had to slog it out for years to get there. You can form a label or try signing up to a small one, but either way if you don't promote your music in EVERY way you can think of silly or not, your target audience will listen to what they've heard of and ignore what they haven't, the same way you and I ignore vast seas of material online every day.

It's human nature to both recognise the familiar and tune out the unfamiliar. The only way to fight it is to breed familiarity any way you can in you and your work. Just posting on band camp and cd baby won't really get you anywhere for all these reasons.

Last edited by CRASHBOX; 27th August 2012 at 04:47 PM.. Reason: misspelling
Old 27th August 2012
  #90
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Post anything and everything; every little bit of attention helps you gain a foothold into people's minds. There are people who are starving for something new; if you give a little, you might just get something back.
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