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What do I do now that I got internship........ Condenser Microphones
Old 19th August 2012
  #1
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What do I do now that I got internship........

I finally found that somebody who can get me working under the wing of a decent engineer with some decent pop placements and stuff...... all i can think about, is how in the hell do I contribute in a session with a guy who has almost a decade of experience on me?? My instincts tell me the least I can do is shut the **** up and roll a good blunt... but other than that im fresh out of ideas lol... anybody have any words of wisdom for a soon to be young grasshopper?
Old 19th August 2012
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcanelli View Post
I finally found that somebody who can get me working under the wing of a decent engineer with some decent pop placements and stuff...... all i can think about, is how in the hell do I contribute in a session with a guy who has almost a decade of experience on me?? My instincts tell me the least I can do is shut the **** up and roll a good blunt... but other than that im fresh out of ideas lol... anybody have any words of wisdom for a soon to be young grasshopper?
Congratz on your new joint job as a coffee maker and a dish washer.
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Old 19th August 2012
  #3
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huejahfink's Avatar
 

Grab a word with the engineer in a quiet moment (not on a session) to discuss what each of your expectations are.
Communication is key, something I would say about most any work relationship.
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Old 19th August 2012
  #4
perform your best and DONT get in the way. Always be respectful and diligent, even when all you want to do is punch someone in the mouth. it may lead to a paying job, or you may be out on the street in 6 months with nothing more than some "experience" under your belt
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Old 20th August 2012
  #5
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Originally Posted by Oden View Post
Congratz on your new joint job as a coffee maker and a dish washer.
lol... F U
Old 20th August 2012
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlanestoner View Post
perform your best and DONT get in the way. Always be respectful and diligent, even when all you want to do is punch someone in the mouth. it may lead to a paying job, or you may be out on the street in 6 months with nothing more than some "experience" under your belt
lol im pretty close to rock bottomas is, so ill take either one
Old 20th August 2012
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcanelli View Post
I finally found that somebody who can get me working under the wing of a decent engineer with some decent pop placements and stuff...... all i can think about, is how in the hell do I contribute in a session with a guy who has almost a decade of experience on me??
Contribute?

You're dreaming. And there's nothing inherently wrong with dreaming, so long as you have it to where 95% of it is done while you're asleep.

Don't get me wrong. Interning IS meaningful work if you go about it the right way, have a good head on your shoulders, and NEVER think that you have anything to contribute to professionals working in a studio.

They've spent a great deal of their time/careers in recording studios.

You are an intern at a recording studio for the first time.

Do everything that is asked of you and absolutely nothing that you are not asked to do. Clean the bathroom, grab lunch, or call someone a cab. Replace light bulbs, empty ash trays, maybe recycle some bottles once a week. Those things need to be done. This is where the intern is of use. When you can do all of those jobs, and more, better than anyone else they may have selected over you for an internship, THEN you might be brought into the control room as a second assistant or an assistant and you can help with patches and recalls and setting up mics and all of that.

Your opinion still won't matter, but at least you're not cleaning toilets at that point. You'll be learning. Shut your mouth, open your ears, and learn.

Other industries/businesses have it set up to where the interns do MOST of the "actual work."

Lots of marketing and advertising firms I've worked with, for instance, have it set up to where their actual output is 60-75% spawned from free/intern hours. They get kids from college to use Photoshop, Flash, whateverthehell else and the kids get school credit for it and some actual experience that they can put on a resumé. The actual "designers" or whatever staff-doods and doodettes at these shops are indeed talented people who COULD do it, but are essentially really good intern wranglers.

I'm not saying ALL of those businesses are run like that...but from what I have seen quite a few of them are.

On any professional session, if you -- the intern -- were to open your mouth and make an attempt at dribbling out an opinion...you'd be asked to leave the control room at the very least and more likely than not you wouldn't be coming back.

Your "job" as an intern is to not be seen or heard. The people in the studio should also not notice things like dead lightbulbs or funky bathrooms or full ash trays -- because you should be on top of it. That's your work. Most of it, at least.

Ultimately, what you pull out of an internship comes DIRECTLY from how valuable you make yourself, and how valuable the people you're working for think you are. If they care about you and want you to come up in this business, they will make sure that you do.

If you leave the bathroom a dook-stinking disaster and tell a keyboard player they should be playing a minor 7 instead of the root, you're not going to have an internship very long.
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Old 20th August 2012
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcanelli View Post
I finally found that somebody who can get me working under the wing of a decent engineer with some decent pop placements and stuff...... all i can think about, is how in the hell do I contribute in a session with a guy who has almost a decade of experience on me?? My instincts tell me the least I can do is shut the **** up and roll a good blunt... but other than that im fresh out of ideas lol... anybody have any words of wisdom for a soon to be young grasshopper?
Shut up, do what you're told and keep your eyes and ears open. Try to excel at every task you're given, even if it's just making or bringing coffee or cleaning the toilet. After all, would you want somebody working on your record who isn't even capable of making coffee?

Above all, be patient and courteous to everybody.

And whatever you do, don't ever act like a fan around the musicians, even if the guy doing the record is your biggest idol.
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Old 20th August 2012
  #9
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At least I know my instincts are on point if nothing else lol... thanks
Old 20th August 2012
  #10
Eat
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you gettin' paid or what

if the internship is a kind of 'lets see what kind of work ethic you got' and then they're going to promote and pay you... the balls in your court, but its still a gamble cuz they just might be lying to ya....or maybe not.

but if they're not paying you and just using you for cleaning & gofer services then letting you go for the next rube...er..'intern'... then they can go fukk themselves.
Old 21st August 2012
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcanelli View Post
My instincts tell me the least I can do is shut the **** up and roll a good blunt... but other than that im fresh out of ideas lol... anybody have any words of wisdom for a soon to be young grasshopper?

Wisdom won't be found in your "blunt rolling".
NEVER get high or be high during your internship.
If you want to learn and be present then do just that.
Old 21st August 2012
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat View Post
you gettin' paid or what

if the internship is a kind of 'lets see what kind of work ethic you got' and then they're going to promote and pay you... the balls in your court, but its still a gamble cuz they just might be lying to ya....or maybe not.

but if they're not paying you and just using you for cleaning & gofer services then letting you go for the next rube...er..'intern'... then they can go fukk themselves.
And that attitude is a perfect example of what won't get you anywhere.
Old 21st August 2012
  #13
Eat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
And that attitude is a perfect example of what won't get you anywhere.
what's the problem old paint.... what i said is very pragmatic. do a really good job and you should theoretically be rewarded or, its possible you may be also taken advantage of
Old 21st August 2012
  #14
AyA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
And that attitude is a perfect example of what won't get you anywhere.
It's this kind of posting that shows you're interested in and support unpaid slavery...

Why do you promote slavery?


Are you a slaver yourself or are you a slave suffering some form of Helsinky Syndrome?


Answer my questions or don't. Either way have a nice day.
Old 21st August 2012
  #15
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Knowing and agreeing to terms is much different than having choice taken away against ones' will.
The OP has a good opportunity to get a free education and resume in exchange for a little grunt work.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #16
Eat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
Knowing and agreeing to terms is much different than having choice taken away against ones' will.
The OP has a good opportunity to get a free education and resume in exchange for a little grunt work.
sort of a horse of a different color really. if the predominance is to not pay interns (of course it can be rationalized right? hey, they're getting experience...as a matter of fact, they should be paying us for the privilege! [which i think actually goes on in places] ).... then whats the difference in the method of how you got there, you really have no choice in the matter whether it be outright slavery or the industry as a collective policy won't pay interns.

well, so, go into another line of work your answer would be... that is your freedom right there pal!!
well, the same can be said for your not being able to sustain a living in your industry... you're free to find a more lucrative line of work!

but.. oh, no, you'll say.... MY work is being destroyed by thievery. its apples and oranges.

to which i will say, as above... how your industry is being bulldozed by the cultural and technology conditions of an entire planet is really no different than the intern who's being forced... yes... forced... to play along cuz businesses and corporations all collectively realized in recent years, that, hey...we don't really have to pay these people at all. we hold all the cards!

now the thing you ARE FREE to do, is to just what you guys are doing... fighting against piracy and for upholding copyright laws.

the interns are also free to try and change the corporate mindset to one where people get paid again.

in either case, obviously there's no guarantee you'll change anything, but who sez life's fair anyway, eh?
Old 22nd August 2012
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by AyA View Post
It's this kind of posting that shows you're interested in and support unpaid slavery...

Why do you promote slavery?


Are you a slaver yourself or are you a slave suffering some form of Helsinky Syndrome?


Answer my questions or don't. Either way have a nice day.
Unpaid slavery?

Hardly.

Being an intern is voluntary. You can quit any time.

Being an intern is an opportunity to get an education without spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a worthless piece of paper - and having a shot a starting a career.

Did you have an experience as an intern where you felt "ripped off"? Maybe you should look to yourself - if you don't exhibit a positive attitude and show attention to detail in your menial tasks why should they ever trust you with something important? If you can't even clean a toilet why would they trust you to clean a $100,000 tape machine? If you have a sulky, resentful attitude when you bring the coffee, why would they want your attitude in the control room or anywhere with half a mile of a client?
Old 22nd August 2012
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat View Post
sort of a horse of a different color really. if the predominance is to not pay interns (of course it can be rationalized right? hey, they're getting experience...as a matter of fact, they should be paying us for the privilege! [which i think actually goes on in places] ).... then whats the difference in the method of how you got there, you really have no choice in the matter whether it be outright slavery or the industry as a collective policy won't pay interns.

well, so, go into another line of work your answer would be... that is your freedom right there pal!!
well, the same can be said for your not being able to sustain a living in your industry... you're free to find a more lucrative line of work!

but.. oh, no, you'll say.... MY work is being destroyed by thievery. its apples and oranges.

to which i will say, as above... how your industry is being bulldozed by the cultural and technology conditions of an entire planet is really no different than the intern who's being forced... yes... forced... to play along cuz businesses and corporations all collectively realized in recent years, that, hey...we don't really have to pay these people at all. we hold all the cards!

now the thing you ARE FREE to do, is to just what you guys are doing... fighting against piracy and for upholding copyright laws.

the interns are also free to try and change the corporate mindset to one where people get paid again.

in either case, obviously there's no guarantee you'll change anything, but who sez life's fair anyway, eh?
I think I detect a major case of sour grapes.

Did you have a bad experience? Or are you merely talking out of your hat?

If you did have a bad experience did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason it didn't go anywhere for you is because of the same attitudes you express on a regular basis in this very forum - attitudes that are pretty much anathema to most people with any real experience in the industry?
Old 22nd August 2012
  #19
Eat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I think I detect a major case of sour grapes.

Did you have a bad experience? Or are you merely talking out of your hat?

If you did have a bad experience did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason it didn't go anywhere for you is because of the same attitudes you express on a regular basis in this very forum - attitudes that are pretty much anathema to anybody with any real experience in the industry?
lol.. you don't know me uh uh uhhhh

commercial photographer that learned the biz by working as an assistant for a number of years and got paid real well for it too because as an assistant i kicked ass!!

sour grapes?? good lord man... you come off as one of the sourest, crankiest, bitterest person here

let it go!! free yourself from the hate filled chains that bind you!!!

ameeeeeennn and halleluiah!!!!

*channeling firesign theater*
Old 22nd August 2012
  #20
I have a true confession that's doubly revealing because it's embarrassing... humiliating! But-- hopefully there's a lesson buried within.

I "interned" at the premieir FM rock station in San Francisco in the autumn of 1977. KMEL, I think those were the call letters. I sat in a room, disconnected from anything, and it was my job to answer the request phone. Obnoxious teenage girls, mostly. Of course, I was much more interested in taking the free time to prepare my own radio show, on the non-broadcast San Francisco State station. I took the Beatles song "Yesterday" and the Franklin Roosevelt speech "Yesterday, December 7, 1941...", overlapped them, and what do you know but they both hit the word "suddenly" at exactly the same moment! "Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be..." and "...suddenly and deliberately attacked!!!" And there was the John Kennedy inaugural overlapping James Taylor's "Handyman"-- eloquently heartbreaking, in it's own odd way. A Wizard of Oz medley I'd prepared... and the ONE time the station manager walked in, there I was! "Hey girls, gather round/the energy! the faith! the devotion!" Needless to say, he chewed me out for neglecting my duties. I also bungled a meeting with Elvis Costello, ran into him in the hall, he handed me tickets to a show, but I wasn't able to get the ride into town. There had been some intimation I was offered to make a station ID-- again, breezed by all that in my steadfast mission to do my thing.

So! Let this be a lesson, whatever it is! You see how I turned out!
Old 22nd August 2012
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat View Post
lol.. you don't know me uh uh uhhhh

commercial photographer that learned the biz by working as an assistant for a number of years and got paid real well for it too because as an assistant i kicked ass!!
Commercial photographer, eh? Interesting. I'll have to remember that when you advocate artists working for free......

Do you give away your work? If you're a commercial photographer, somehow I think not.

You know, in the studios somebody who kicks ass generally gets rewarded (at least if it's a decent studio). The problem is that a lot of interns who come into studios don't really kick ass.

The other problem, of course, is that there's not as much work as there used to be so things are, shall we say, somewhat slower.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #22
Eat
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well that's why i'm mostly retired from the business. digital turned it upside down and made images about as valueless as music. why hire a pro when you can always toss a point and shoot to the receptionist and say, "take pictures of all our stuff and upload it to our website....and by the way, you won't be getting paid extra for it. there's a thousand other people waiting in line for your job honey"


but that's the product of the times we're living in and ya can't change the world.

tell you what though... i'd give anything for a time machine to go back to the mid 1960's with my photography experience and my guitar chops.... it was the golden age of advertising, images and rock music....

i'd clean up and be king of the mountain!!

nowadays... who wants to pay for 'content' when your bombarded night and day with images and music and every person and their grandmothers on the face of the planets got a computer and cranking the **** out nonstop
Old 22nd August 2012
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat View Post
well that's why i'm mostly retired from the business. digital turned it upside down and made images about as valueless as music. why hire a pro when you can always toss a point and shoot to the receptionist and say, "take pictures of all our stuff and upload it to our website....and by the way, you won't be getting paid extra for it. there's a thousand other people waiting in line for your job honey"


but that's the product of the times we're living in and ya can't change the world.
You can try, and if enough of you try hard enough it might even work. We did it in the '60s!

Quote:
tell you what though... i'd give anything for a time machine to go back to the mid 1960's with my photography experience and my guitar chops.... it was the golden age of advertising, images and rock music....
Well I've got one if you can find me a working flux capacitor....... Unfortunately it seems that the company that makes them won't be around for another 50 years!

Quote:
nowadays... who wants to pay for 'content' when your bombarded night and day with images and music and every person and their grandmothers on the face of the planets got a computer and cranking the **** out nonstop
Well, hopefully people are still interested in quality. If only we can figure out some way to get the quality in front of them, through the glut of mediocrity*.



* - of course quality is a subjective thing, but in this case I mean music that grabs people emotionally on a human level, as opposed to glitzy, artificial "perfection"...... And that displays a level of real musicianship rather than computer generation.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #24
AyA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Unpaid slavery?

Hardly.

Being an intern is voluntary. You can quit any time.

Being an intern is an opportunity to get an education without spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a worthless piece of paper - and having a shot a starting a career.

Did you have an experience as an intern where you felt "ripped off"? Maybe you should look to yourself - if you don't exhibit a positive attitude and show attention to detail in your menial tasks why should they ever trust you with something important? If you can't even clean a toilet why would they trust you to clean a $100,000 tape machine? If you have a sulky, resentful attitude when you bring the coffee, why would they want your attitude in the control room or anywhere with half a mile of a client?

No body has ever asked me to get them a hot drink... I just don't look like that type of person...

I look like the type of person you don't want to see with a hot drink in their hands... Because I am that kind of person...

All jittery and edgy, looking sideways, about to run cry fight and **** at the same time as fall asleep grinning...

You advertising for workers? I just might apply.
Old 23rd August 2012
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Shut up, do what you're told and keep your eyes and ears open. Try to excel at every task you're given, even if it's just making or bringing coffee or cleaning the toilet. After all, would you want somebody working on your record who isn't even capable of making coffee?
These unpaid internships are straight up exploitation. It's great that people want to stand up for artists rights here in the music business forum; but when it comes to young people trying to get started in music industry exploitation is ok? The double standard is really baffling to me.

Part of having a successful music industry is having sustainable jobs - this does not happen when entry level positions are ALL replaced by rotating unpaid interns. If someone is making you coffee and cleaning your toilets they need to be paid - this is not just my personal opinion, it is the law. Young people with thousands of dollars of student dept who now have to intern for years before they can hopefully if they're lucky find a job is a huge problem for the economy right now.

Christian Neumeister: It’s Just Business: How Corporate America Made Slaves of the Young - Truthdig

The argument that it's ok for the intern to be doing all this work because they get some kind of free education out of it is BS. In my opinion that is that same as saying the illegal distribution of musicians work is ok because they get free promotion out of the deal. Both arguments look ok at first glance but when you actually think about them for more than a few seconds you realize that they're completely ridiculous. Any job always requires at least some amount of on the job training. If you feel like the training is too much of a burden to you or your business then it is your right to NOT hire them! If you need someone to get you coffee, clean your bathrooms, do your office work, run your facebook account etc., then you need to pay them; you don't get out of paying them by saying that you are training them, even if you are training them.

I know the counter argument is that interns have a CHOICE. Unfortunately if they want to work in the music industry they don't. Anyone who works in the music industry knows that starting out you have to do at least one unpaid internship. So the real choice is either suck it up and do the internship or don't work in the industry.

By the way I don't understand why anyone would consider coffee making ability when choosing who they work with on their album?
Old 23rd August 2012
  #26
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat View Post
sort of a horse of a different color really. if the predominance is to not pay interns (of course it can be rationalized right? hey, they're getting experience...as a matter of fact, they should be paying us for the privilege! [which i think actually goes on in places] ).... then whats the difference in the method of how you got there, you really have no choice in the matter whether it be outright slavery or the industry as a collective policy won't pay interns.

well, so, go into another line of work your answer would be... that is your freedom right there pal!!
well, the same can be said for your not being able to sustain a living in your industry... you're free to find a more lucrative line of work!

but.. oh, no, you'll say.... MY work is being destroyed by thievery. its apples and oranges.

to which i will say, as above... how your industry is being bulldozed by the cultural and technology conditions of an entire planet is really no different than the intern who's being forced... yes... forced... to play along cuz businesses and corporations all collectively realized in recent years, that, hey...we don't really have to pay these people at all. we hold all the cards!

now the thing you ARE FREE to do, is to just what you guys are doing... fighting against piracy and for upholding copyright laws.

the interns are also free to try and change the corporate mindset to one where people get paid again.

in either case, obviously there's no guarantee you'll change anything, but who sez life's fair anyway, eh?
Thank you Eat. this pretty much sums it up.
Old 23rd August 2012
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh P View Post
These unpaid internships are straight up exploitation. It's great that people want to stand up for artists rights here in the music business forum; but when it comes to young people trying to get started in music industry exploitation is ok? The double standard is really baffling to me.

Part of having a successful music industry is having sustainable jobs - this does not happen when entry level positions are ALL replaced by rotating unpaid interns. If someone is making you coffee and cleaning your toilets they need to be paid - this is not just my personal opinion, it is the law. Young people with thousands of dollars of student dept who now have to intern for years before they can hopefully if they're lucky find a job is a huge problem for the economy right now.

Christian Neumeister: It’s Just Business: How Corporate America Made Slaves of the Young - Truthdig

The argument that it's ok for the intern to be doing all this work because they get some kind of free education out of it is BS. In my opinion that is that same as saying the illegal distribution of musicians work is ok because they get free promotion out of the deal. Both arguments look ok at first glance but when you actually think about them for more than a few seconds you realize that they're completely ridiculous. Any job always requires at least some amount of on the job training. If you feel like the training is too much of a burden to you or your business then it is your right to NOT hire them! If you need someone to get you coffee, clean your bathrooms, do your office work, run your facebook account etc., then you need to pay them; you don't get out of paying them by saying that you are training them, even if you are training them.

I know the counter argument is that interns have a CHOICE. Unfortunately if they want to work in the music industry they don't. Anyone who works in the music industry knows that starting out you have to do at least one unpaid internship. So the real choice is either suck it up and do the internship or don't work in the industry.
Well, I guess you don't work in the studio business, do you? Or understand anything about it.

What do you think of people paying $81,000 to Full Sail for a "music production course" that only graduates 15% of students and places none of them (although they promise to.)

Don't you think working for free for a year or so where you can actually LEARN something about your craft is better than incurring a lifelong debt for a worthless piece of paper?

Quote:
By the way I don't understand why anyone would consider coffee making ability when choosing who they work with on their album?
Obviously. It's pretty clear you've never spent much time in a real studio.

Let me spell it out to you - it's a test. Somebody who can't be trusted with a simple job like making coffee does not have what it takes mentally to work on an album. Somebody who cannot maintain a positive, attentive attitude when making coffee (or sweeping the floor, etc.) is almost certainly not going to be able to keep it together under the kind of stress that often occurs over the course of a project.

Not to mention the fact that if you do work your way up to being an assistant engineer an awful lot of what you do consists of boring, menial tasks like documenting sessions and aligning tape decks.

And somebody who cannot maintain a PROFESSIONAL ATTITUDE when doing simple, menial jobs in the studio does not understand what it means to have a professional attitude when dealing with clients.

One of the most important things you need in this business is a PROFESSIONAL ATTITUDE. Without that you're nothing.

And believe me, bitching about being taken advantage of when you're being offered an opportunity that hundreds, if not thousands of other people would give their left nut for is a dead certain indication that not only do you not have a professional attitude, the very concept of it is so foreign to you that you wouldn't know it if it sat on your head.

And frankly, the same thing carries over into most businesses - if you have that precious "oh, the young are so exploited" attitude it will stand in your way every time.
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Old 23rd August 2012
  #28
AyA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
And believe me, bitching about being taken advantage of when you're being offered an opportunity that hundreds, if not thousands of other people would give their left nut for is a dead certain indication that not only do you not have a professional attitude, the very concept of it is so foreign to you that you wouldn't know it if it sat on your head.
If you can produce one adult with two testicles that is willing to forfeit one of them to learn your wisdom I will do two things. Have you arrested and seriously counsel the poor man...


You are a ****ing bigot. No personal offense intended I'm just making an observation in the kind of tone you write to others. Your attitude is professional when the profession is killing and raping. Go **** yourself in a dark room somewhere where no body else can be harmed by your foul ways.

Thanks for the opportunity to express myself. I hope you have a wonderful day. Aim for my stomach.
Old 23rd August 2012
  #29
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gear is cool's Avatar
can you fellas take it over to facebook or somewhere else?

Old 24th August 2012
  #30
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A lot of the types of "internships" you guys are talking about are now considered illegal in the US.

The US Dept. of Labor is cracking down. Check out their website.
You cannot legally get people to clean toilets anymore for their "internship."
(unless cleaning toilets is your company's trade)

Of course, consenting adults can make whatever backroom "unpaid employment" agreements they want with each other, but it can no longer legally be called an "internship"

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - Fact Sheet
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