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The State of the Music Industry...
Old 7th August 2012
  #91
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
All the same... I'd like some better kind of disguise when I testify... like, from inside a spacesuit?
Maybe a depo beamed back to Earth from Curiosity. Of course, you'd have to get to Mars first. That could be a problem.

I guess you might as well just face the music. The Five Families are coming for you.
Old 8th August 2012
  #92
Face the music, huh? Seems like it must be time for a new cliche... how about "face the mp3"?
Old 8th August 2012
  #93
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
Face the music, huh? Seems like it must be time for a new cliche... how about "face the mp3"?
Face the MP3. Yeah, that's about right. The Mafia ain't want it used to be either.
Old 8th August 2012
  #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
Face the MP3. Yeah, that's about right. The Mafia ain't want it used to be either.
tell that to the russians running the human trafficking websites advertising on the torrent sites.
Old 8th August 2012
  #95
AyA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
tell that to the russians running the human trafficking websites advertising on the torrent sites.
Human trafficking is a double edged sword.

On one side you have slavers and a slaver should be shot and rendered into fertilizer bags to be shared equally amongst the slaves but a good Coyote, a true smuggler is in it for the run and for the dreams... Making real dreams happen for real people who want to move out from under the bombs into the lime light... From a world where congregating for even music or a wedding means planes fly over and drop bombs to a world where congregating for music means planes fly over and take pictures... You can't blame people for wanting to find a better life and you can't blame good smugglers who treat people with respect, keep them safe and charge an honest rate, you can't blame them for wanting to advertise on google...
Old 8th August 2012
  #96
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dxavier's Avatar
Going so far off topic. The conversation has gone from one extreme to the other.

Can we go back to the subject please?

I absolutely do not think the comic strip is off the mark. Four majors at the moment, common knowledge that there will soon be three. The music business is changing....dramatically. The music business has still not understood digital distribution or digital releases and I for one, believe that majors will no longer exist in the next ten years, in their current guise, unless they make drastic changes.

One example of positive change was the introduction of Vevo. An actual collaborative project between majors. If the majors could repeat this initiative, but with digital distribution and finally cut out the middle man (iTunes), then we could really see a different game. With the majors working together, whilst politely competing, we could see a stronger industry and this could help to introduce a unified protocol for digital security, rather than the majors individually attempting to tackle piracy.

Apple is no longer the dominant OS for smartphones / portable media. It is now Android. However, music distribution for Android has been poorly implemented. Before Android attempts a solution to this, please please please, majors, get together and provide a solution that is no longer tied to hardware. A solution that all OS' can tap into and allow the majors to take this part of the industry back. No more kick back to iTunes, means bringing more money back to the labels and artists. Then this can be the launchpad for a collective/unified technical anti-piracy initiative/solution. It's the only way I can see the current structure of the music industry surviving.
Old 8th August 2012
  #97
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
...I for one, believe that majors will no longer exist in the next ten years, in their current guise, unless they make drastic changes.
I have to disagree. The majors are getting stronger, not weaker. There will probably be only 2 majors in ten years, and those two massive companies will control 95% of the legit current music market in addition to owning the lion's share of great back catalogs.

The deal is that when there is less to go around because of file sharing, that diminished amount will be shared among fewer corporations. File sharing is a problem, but it's not going to shut down the largest segment of the biz. It's going to eliminate the lower tiers, because that smaller and smaller pie slice is being divided between an increasing number of small labels, not a decreasing number as with the majors. Economies of scale in reverse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
With the majors working together, whilst politely competing...
Yeah, they'll be competing like an intersection with an Exxon on one corner and a Mobile on the opposite corner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
...please please please, majors, get together and provide a solution that is no longer tied to hardware. A solution that all OS' can tap into and allow the majors to take this part of the industry back.
I believe you will ultimately see music playback tied to specific hardware in a hugely proprietary manner. Hardware control is the only possible partial remedy to file sharing. Can't stop it, but it would make it more difficult for the average user.
I could see two majors, working together against antitrust laws, proposing a proprietary hardware solution that would lock minor labels out of the safe game, under the guise of maintaining monetization for the good of the overall market. Two Majors that are too big to be allowed to fail, because much of the industry would collapse with them, and if one failed the other would be left with a monopoly.

Can't happen? Look at banking, where you have to accept .01% on your investment because we've all been sold on an obligation to re-monetize banks that have already been bailed out by our money because they were too big to fail, a situation that rose from their own greed and mistakes, while their executives flew to Washington on private jets to cry poverty. And those execs are still raking in huge annual bonuses because of a successful money grab, as the middle class continues to bail them out by depleting our retirement accounts.
Old 9th August 2012
  #98
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dxavier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
I have to disagree. The majors are getting stronger, not weaker. There will probably be only 2 majors in ten years, and those two massive companies will control 95% of the legit current music market in addition to owning the lion's share of great back catalogs.
Very good point, but I don't agree that majors are getting stronger. I have seen far too many leaving do's over the last few years and several labels shut down, that I previously thought were bulletproof. I would say the labels are getting leaner and meaner, perhaps more cost effective/accountable, more professional, but I wouldn't say stronger. Still, you are so right. If the majors whittle down to two, there will be enough meat on the table to go around. No argument there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
The deal is that when there is less to go around because of file sharing, that diminished amount will be shared among fewer corporations. File sharing is a problem, but it's not going to shut down the largest segment of the biz. It's going to eliminate the lower tiers, because that smaller and smaller pie slice is being divided between an increasing number of small labels, not a decreasing number as with the majors. Economies of scale in reverse.
Extremely good point, but I am not sure if the largest segment of the industry as we know it, WILL still exist in the future. I think radical changes will be made to the industry, willingly or unwillingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
I believe you will ultimately see music playback tied to specific hardware in a hugely proprietary manner. Hardware control is the only possible partial remedy to file sharing. Can't stop it, but it would make it more difficult for the average user.
I could see two majors, working together against antitrust laws, proposing a proprietary hardware solution that would lock minor labels out of the safe game, under the guise of maintaining monetization for the good of the overall market. Two Majors that are too big to be allowed to fail, because much of the industry would collapse with them, and if one failed the other would be left with a monopoly.
I would like to see the industry go down a different road, but ultimately, I think you are going to be right on this one. They probably will go down the hardware control route. For me, I strongly believe the industry needs to start thinking outside of the box. Everyone else around them is, which is why the industry is currently always one/two steps behind. Rather than big wigs shaking hands at Midem, the majors should set up a collective digital think tank, to bring new process and technology ideas to the table. The think tank should not contain the major label top management, who all fit a profile of being over 55, and male. It should be a think tank of the very young and technically gifted, who can take the industry in a completely different direction, without the limitations of having a physical distribution process mentality. The music industry has been dictated to and led by many others, who have understood, digital technology, distribution and public interaction, far better than the industry itself (Napster, iTunes, Spotify etc). Can you imagine what the music industry could look like if the creators of Spotify had of been internal rather than external? Why are external bodies coming up with these ideas, whilst the music industry keeps it's head in the sand and is simply led by the next wizz kid technical creation? The tables can be turned back but a new radical approach must be taken. Bring the wizz kids internal. Turn it over to them. They understand more than anyone how they want to ingest music. Let's start listening to them. If we don't, they will simply build external solutions and then dictate how we distribute music anyway. They then become another bear with their hand in the jam. The industry needs to cut out the middle people. The music industry needs to develop it's own solutions.
Old 9th August 2012
  #99
Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
I would like to see the industry go down a different road, but ultimately, I think you are going to be right on this one. They probably will go down the hardware control route. For me, I strongly believe the industry needs to start thinking outside of the box.
just need to prosecute the criminals profiting from artists exploitation... enforcing the law seems to work for other industries.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/8135323-post58.html
Old 13th August 2012
  #100
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjanovicH View Post
Once again, the Oatmeal tells it as it is...

The state of the music industry - The Oatmeal
I really wish that people wouldn't make statements about subjects they know nothing about.

The cartoon is cute, but comes to the wrong conclusion. It would be nice if things were that simple, but the author completely ignores the cost of production, which the artist must pay out of pocket without having a music industry to back him up. Not to mention the fact that self producing an album, even with a top notch home studio (like mine) takes AT LEAST three times as long as working disciplined sessions in a commercial facility with an experienced team that makes records for a living. And when I say "at least" I'm being really charitable and optimistic. (EDM and Hip-hop are exceptions to some degree.)

Now some of you may think this is boring but I doubt that you've actually tried doing a production of a full band. So far I'm 3 years in and counting and several tens of thousands of dollars invested. If I'd had the money available all at once to spend on a professional facility we would have had the album out years ago. And I have the advantage of having real studio experience as an assistant to a major producer and a couple decades of live mixing experience, so my learning curve isn't as steep as someone young with no opportunity for mentoring.

Let's see - at 5 bucks a CD how many do I have to sell to get my 30 grand back? Assuming cost of each unit to be approximately $1 I'd have to sell 7,500 copies to break even. Without promotion, because cost to professionally promote an album would cost more than I've put into making it.
Old 13th August 2012
  #101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf LeProducer View Post
There is zero proof that major labels create a thriving industry where many levels of success and income can be achieved..
Yeah? You wanna back my album? Pay for my tour support?
Old 13th August 2012
  #102
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
And the game is afoot... or the race is on... or whatever...
Old 13th August 2012
  #103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik View Post
Making moony from records -- sorry that will not come back, unless digital technology dies and we have to switch back to analog gear. Sorry but true, time to think of something else for making a living from music. Like playing live.
Some people don't play live. Songwriters, studio musicians, etc.

And frankly there isn't much money in playing live, either, unless you happen to be AC/DC or Roger Waters. And lord knows what Waters' production costs are - they must be astronomical.

For a typical breaking act playing live when you break down all the costs you don't even get close to minimum legal wage. And if you want a support slot for a tour with a major act you usually have to buy on - it actually costs you money to get on the tour. About the only way around it is to be managed by the main act's manager.
Old 13th August 2012
  #104
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
In other words, I can think of many things that will lead to proliferation of file sharing in the next 5 years, but not one thing that will lead to elimination or even a slowdown.
I can.

Law enforcement.

It worked for drunk driving, it can work for other forms of widespread antisocial behavior.
Old 13th August 2012
  #105
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
Some things are incredibly difficult to predict. Other things are fairly obvious. Like computing 5 years from now.

-super small footprint. Pocket supercomputers. Lower cost on some. Cutting edge still high cost.
-all flash memory, maybe molecular/atomic construction. 100TB on a fingernail sized chip. (but who the F needs 100TB?)
-super fast processors, but much of that still eaten up by growing bloatware. That's why you'll need 100TB. To load and operate Photoshop CS25.
-very possible some kind of BMI (brain-machine interface) available, but unreliable and very buggy.
-Windows Decade (AARRGGGGHHHH!!!). Still crashing.
-pretty much the same internet, same internet issues and problems. Faster downloads.
-Facebook is old-school, but still here. Only for old geezers of 30+
-maybe nice medical advancements like prosthesis better connected to brain functions
-fairly decent synthesis of AI

-still no flying cars, damn it all!

10-15 years
-Sufficiently debugged BMI eliminates all physical interfaces
-Memory storage expanded to unlimited. All human knowledge and information available on a single, tiny device
-Open Cloud Unlimited demolishes the concept of personal storage devices and digi info ownership. Many fights ensue, but proliferation of Open Cloud Unlimited is guaranteed by inability to control it.
-Facebook gone
-Unbelievably fast processor speed still choking on bloatware
-Windows XX still crashing (AAARRGGGGHHH!!!!)

-Still no flying cars.

40-50 years
-All computer hardware in third world landfills. Everything exists in a virtual space. 99% of civilized world is implanted with BCI (Brain Cloud Interface)
-Everything is on demand. Concept of data ownership no longer exists. People interface virtually.
-Tiny enclaves of BCI resistant humans still exist, but fewer and fewer.

55 years
-Giant solar flare instantly and irreparably disconnects everything, trashes all data storage, totally crashes "Windows Cloud" and pushes the reset button on civilization

60 years
-Prices for good horses and buggies spike. Musicians are playing on street corners for dimes. Non-electrical Victrola is king. Amish become leading source of cutting-edge technology. Can't find a good dentist. Some futurist guy is saying that we'll have flying cars by the year 2100.
You read a lot of Charles Stross, don't you?
Old 13th August 2012
  #106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy_A View Post
I thought vinyl sales have increased quite a lot since the past 2 years.
In fact I like listening to older jazz/classical music and also music from 30's to 50s on vinyl... bcoz listening to jazz on CD's sounds awful and as far as jazz on MP3??? ugggh!!!

I own a Audio Technica now which is a starter....and if I get more passionate or crazier, I could upgrade to a much higher one...


What is the best high end vinyl player out there?
Does Garrard still sell in the USA or UK or Oz? I read that the Garrard 501 (now marketed as Loricraft 501) was rated very highly some years ago at the CES Las Vegas..

Among the following 4 whom do you the rate the descending best?

Thoren
Garrard
Marantz
TEAC

I currently use a BOSE Acoustimass 10 with a JVC 5.1 receiver for my Audio Technica.

Do you recommend that a Garrard would need a different receiver setup?

Thanks
You have never heard of the real top end vinyl players.

I was always fond of the Transcriptors Vestigial.

My pro audio guy has a really cool turntable he says cost about 8 grand, I don't know the name.

There was a company called Entec that made a turntable with a 500 lb granite platter floating on compressed air.

There's a company in Japan that makes a turntable that uses lasers instead of a needle to play your vinyl with no wear. It runs about 8 grand depending on options.

Incidentally, even among inexpensive mass produced turntables, Garrards are crap.

See if you can pick up a Thorens - the better ones use a separate tone arm - the Shure SME is pretty good.
Old 13th August 2012
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Some people don't play live. Songwriters, studio musicians, etc.

And frankly there isn't much money in playing live, either, unless you happen to be AC/DC or Roger Waters. And lord knows what Waters' production costs are - they must be astronomical.

For a typical breaking act playing live when you break down all the costs you don't even get close to minimum legal wage. And if you want a support slot for a tour with a major act you usually have to buy on - it actually costs you money to get on the tour. About the only way around it is to be managed by the main act's manager.

So the next thing is to suggest busking !!!


FromPearls Before Breakfast - washingtonpost.com


Quote:
onetime child prodigy, at 39 Joshua Bell has arrived as an internationally acclaimed virtuoso............................


Three minutes went by before something happened. Sixty-three people had already passed when, finally, there was a breakthrough of sorts. A middle-age man altered his gait for a split second, turning his head to notice that there seemed to be some guy playing music. Yes, the man kept walking, but it was something.

A half-minute later, Bell got his first donation. A woman threw in a buck and scooted off. It was not until six minutes into the performance that someone actually stood against a wall, and listened.



Things never got much better. In the three-quarters of an hour that Joshua Bell played, seven people stopped what they were doing to hang around and take in the performance, at least for a minute. Twenty-seven gave money, most of them on the run -- for a total of $32 and change


IF A GREAT MUSICIAN PLAYS GREAT MUSIC BUT NO ONE HEARS . . . WAS HE REALLY ANY GOOD?


"It was a strange feeling, that people were actually, ah . . ."

The word doesn't come easily.

". . . ignoring me."

Bell is laughing. It's at himself.

"At a music hall, I'll get upset if someone coughs or if someone's cellphone goes off. But here, my expectations quickly diminished. I started to appreciate any acknowledgment, even a slight glance up. I was oddly grateful when someone threw in a dollar instead of change." This is from a man whose talents can command $1,000 a minute.



I Know that $32 in less than an hour seems good to most , is it ?? Most folks are leading a frantic existance these days , I guess it's impressive and says allot about how generous our citizens can be; But most of the contributors didn't even stay and listen !!! BY THE WAY ; READ THE ARTICLE ; HE MADE $12 !! SOME FAN OF HIS RECOGNIZED HIM AND THREW HIM A $20


It seems that folks just basically don't really value music much anymore John....

FromSoundCtrl – Guest Post: DeVon Harris – “Race to the Middle”

Quote:
Follow the money.
“We found evidence of a progressive homogenization of the musical discourse. In particular, we obtained numerical indicators that the diversity of transitions between note combinations – roughly speaking chords plus melodies – has consistently diminished in the last 50 years.”


As margins and overall revenues hemorrhage and stores stock less music merchandise, there are jobs on the line. There’s less room for error and thus less room for risky investment (read: different-sounding content). Just like start-ups approaching investors, artists increasingly need to come to the table with more development or established fan bases. In VC parlance, this is de-risking the situation. The closer to the mean – what is currently playing on radio or selling well online/in stores – the less theoretical risk is at hand.......
Besides the fact that decreased sales squeeze the total number of music releases (by major labels at least), the labels decrease their perceived risk by having the content sound as close as possible to what’s recently worked. This isn’t a new phenomenon but the questions surrounding the music business model add even more chaos and reinforce this behavior.


It's not just music;

from "Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture "


Amazon.com: Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture (9780143117636): Ellen Ruppel Shell: Books



Quote:
A myth-shattering investigation of the true cost of America's passion for finding a better bargain

From the shuttered factories of the Rust Belt to the strip malls of the Sun Belt-and almost everywhere in between-America has been transformed by its relentless fixation on low price. This pervasive yet little- examined obsession with bargains is arguably the most powerful and devastating market force of our time, having fueled an excess of consumerism that blights our land*scapes, escalates personal debt, lowers our standard of living, and even skews of our concept of time.

Spotlighting the peculiar forces that drove Americans away from quality, durability, and craftsmanship and towards quantity, quantity, and more quantity, Ellen Ruppel Shell traces the rise of the bargain through our current big-box profusion to expose the astronomically high cost of cheap.


There is no such thing as free people...... you get what you pay for ; you reap what you sow.

Enjoy the massive QUANITY or poor QUALITY music !!

BON APPETIT
Old 13th August 2012
  #108
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuckoo.old View Post
Perhaps yes, a real crime, but:

how many people are doint it, and how many of those consider it a crime?
That's not the point.

When I was young drunk driving was technically a crime but there was little enforcement, penalties were laughably light, a great many people did not take it seriously, and it was extremely widespread.

Now we have strict enforcement, much stiffer penalties, and most people take it quite seriously indeed.
Old 13th August 2012
  #109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dxavier View Post
Going so far off topic. The conversation has gone from one extreme to the other.

Can we go back to the subject please?

I absolutely do not think the comic strip is off the mark. Four majors at the moment, common knowledge that there will soon be three. The music business is changing....dramatically. The music business has still not understood digital distribution or digital releases and I for one, believe that majors will no longer exist in the next ten years, in their current guise, unless they make drastic changes.
It's so far off the mark it's not even on the same planet.

Quote:
One example of positive change was the introduction of Vevo. An actual collaborative project between majors. If the majors could repeat this initiative, but with digital distribution and finally cut out the middle man (iTunes), then we could really see a different game. With the majors working together, whilst politely competing, we could see a stronger industry and this could help to introduce a unified protocol for digital security, rather than the majors individually attempting to tackle piracy.
No.

The LAST thing we need is a "solution" that promotes more consolidation/monopolistic behavior from the surviving few majors while effectively freezing out independent labels.

Quote:
Apple is no longer the dominant OS for smartphones / portable media. It is now Android. However, music distribution for Android has been poorly implemented. Before Android attempts a solution to this, please please please, majors, get together and provide a solution that is no longer tied to hardware. A solution that all OS' can tap into and allow the majors to take this part of the industry back. No more kick back to iTunes, means bringing more money back to the labels and artists. Then this can be the launchpad for a collective/unified technical anti-piracy initiative/solution. It's the only way I can see the current structure of the music industry surviving.
The independent labels are where all innovation in the industry stem from. Not the majors. Any scheme that does not take the needs of independents into consideration is a step in the wrong direction.

I'm not a huge Apple fan but one thing they did right is make a relatively level playing field, unlike a company like Spotify that is partly owned by the majors and has a vastly inequitable payment system, bolstered by the fact that since the majors have an 18% share in the company they profit from increases in stock price and don't have to share that profit with the artists.

And if you don't like Apple you can buy your MP3s from Amazon.
Old 13th August 2012
  #110
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
... When I was young drunk driving was technically a crime but there was little enforcement, penalties were laughably light, a great many people did not take it seriously, and it was extremely widespread.

Now we have strict enforcement, much stiffer penalties, and most people take it quite seriously indeed.
You appear to believe that the enforcement and penalties have changed peoples' attitudes.

I see it the other way - that the change in people's attitudes brought about by social engineering has enabled law enforcement to be more effective. It wouldn't have been possible to enforce the law as strictly when we were young(*) - people didn't take drink driving seriously and didn't support strict enforcement. Smoking is another example - it's not hard to imagine the push-back if they had tried to implement the current no-smoking laws "back then".

(*) I just realised I turn 60 next month...
Old 13th August 2012
  #111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
You appear to believe that the enforcement and penalties have changed peoples' attitudes.
Nope.

It sure as hell has changed their behavior though!

Quote:
I see it the other way - that the change in people's attitudes brought about by social engineering has enabled law enforcement to be more effective. It wouldn't have been possible to enforce the law as strictly when we were young(*) - people didn't take drink driving seriously and didn't support strict enforcement. Smoking is another example - it's not hard to imagine the push-back if they had tried to implement the current no-smoking laws "back then".
Nope - "social engineering" didn't do a damn thing until adequate enforcement came along to back it up. People used to laugh at the early MADD ads on TV. Just like people laugh now when you tell them not to steal music. In fact it's the exact same kind of nasty dumbass laugh.

Social engineering is PROFOUNDLY ineffective without adequate sanctions to give it some teeth.

Quote:
(*) I just realised I turn 60 next month...
Congrats! You're almost grown up!
Old 13th August 2012
  #112
Lives for gear
 
kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You read a lot of Charles Stross, don't you?
Actually, never heard of him, but I'm going to Google... no wait, I don't Google anymore... I'm going to duckduckgo his name.
Old 14th August 2012
  #113
Quote:
Originally Posted by AyA View Post
Human trafficking is a double edged sword.
the kind people are profiting from on the internet is a singled edged sword and it cuts deep. wake up.
Old 14th August 2012
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
Actually, never heard of him, but I'm going to Google... no wait, I don't Google anymore... I'm going to duckduckgo his name.
His first several science fiction novels were based on the concept of "the singularity". Pretty good if you like that sort of thing.

More recently he's been doing satirical sci-fi/horror/spy stuff that's pretty funny - kinda modern Lovecraftian James Bond with a good dash of quirky British humor.
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