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Producing for top artists ?
Old 1st August 2012
  #31
Lives for gear
maybye you need to move to los angeles i dont know.

its like ur in the wrong country
Old 2nd August 2012
  #32
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nznexus View Post
maybye you need to move to los angeles i dont know.

its like ur in the wrong country
why did u put Dr.Luke on avatar? Put yourself on it)
Old 10th August 2012
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
every artist is a little different.

Here's an article on how songs were put together for Rihanna's last album...

How Much Does It Cost To Make A Hit Song? : Planet Money : NPR

In hollywood, it's all about who you know. If you were friends with Rihanna or Adele, you could call them up and say "let's do a song together". But do you have their cell phone numbers handy? And even if you did get their digits, would they answer the phone when you called?

There are different ways to get "in". There is no one "right" way. But it usually all starts from knowing people and getting personal referrals. Sometimes its a manager that gets you the opportunity to submit to one of these artists, sometimes its an agent, sometimes its your publishing company, sometimes its a friend at a label, or sometimes it's a label you are (or were) signed to as an artist yourself.

I know someone who signed a publishing deal with EMI publishing long time ago, and they fly him all around the world to these songwriter camps/workshops for him to write with other EMI composers. It has paid off for both him and EMI. He's now written songs for Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood which have been released as singles. But it took him 15 years of trying, meeting people, working with unknown artists and semi-known artists, working with smaller labels, and then working with EMI for about 8 years to get to this point.

But then you look at someone like Dr Luke, who was friends with someone who was already a huge name in songwriting and production, and Dr Luke got the opportunity to cowrite a song for an artist with him. That song went on to be a #1 hit and opened up doors for Luke to work with other artists. So, like I said, there is really no "one" correct way of getting your foot in the door.

There is so much money AT RISK in the pop music world, that it makes everyone very gun shy. Gone are the days where a label would think nothing about throwing away $500,000 on an album they weren't sure would be successful. Nowadays, songs really need to be hits. So there is a lot banking on the success of the song. That is why you see a lot of the same names writing and producing for all sorts of artists. In India most songs are tied to a film and the film helps promote the song. In the US all promotion for a song comes from the label as most songs aren't directly tied to a film, at least not in the initial promotion. it costs around $1mil to $2mil to promote a song nationally. And it can still flop after all that money is spent. So even though they might only pay you $20,000 for a song, it is costing the label $2mil when all is said and done. When you realize the risk and pressure involved, you can start to understand why they don't just hand out songwriter contracts at the arrival terminals of LAX to anyone who wants one. ;-)

The one piece of advice I can give you... as you try to break into that industry realize that most people aren't going to be listening for the reasons why your tracks are good, they are going to be trying to find any possible reason why your track might be bad or might not work. I've sat in dinner meetings with label promotions people and radio station programmers and have literally heard big station programmers say they won't play the track because the mix sounds off, or they don't like the sound of the snare, or the whatever... As you shop your tracks, you have to really try and make them as good and flawless as possible. You'll probably get quite a few first chances to play something for people who could really help you (agents, managers, publishers, A&R, artists, etc). But you get very few second chances. So if there is ANY reason why a person might pass on your track, you need to be able to hear it and fix it BEFORE you start shopping it and playing it for people. There's a term I hear a lot being around the industry and I think it really sums it up. Undeniable. Your tracks have to be undeniable. There can't be any excuses, no "yeah, but I'll fix/change that once someone adds vocals", no "well, this is just a rough mix", or "I plan on adding more production once the song gets picked up", etc... It has to be a finished, undeniable hit to every person you play it to from the start. People are always going to be looking for possible reasons why the track might fail as a hit single, so don't give them any.

Good luck!
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Old 12th August 2012
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik View Post
I kind of disagree -- if I would look for a new songwriter, the first thing I would check out is the production. Same with demos, they have to be 90% ready today including all the lyrics. Local commercial hits are a big difference compared with yet another Soundcloud upload.
No.

Speaking from under my artist/producer hat(s), if I'm looking for a song, I'm looking for a song, I'm NOT looking for a production. If I'm producing, either my own or somebody else's recording, I'm definitely NOT looking for a finished or even semi-finished production, that's MY job. Even when I'm recording a "cover version" of a well known song I'll more often than not throw out the original arrangement/production. As an artist, same thing - I'm going to want to do MY version of the song.

(to the OP)

But I'll tell you something else - if there are no lyrics I'm not going to consider it (unless it's an instrumental, which is a different thing altogether.). A SONG is lyrics and melody. If you don't have lyrics there's nothing to interest me, especially since, like many musicians, I can knock out basic chords and melody in the genres I work on all day long (any musician who has done much jamming should be able to do this), but a good lyric that is emotionally compelling is hard.

I'd advise you to partner with a lyricist.

In fact, if you can find a lyricist based in LA who likes your music enough to collaborate over the internet it might be the solution to your problem.
Old 13th August 2012
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
No.

Speaking from under my artist/producer hat(s), if I'm looking for a song, I'm looking for a song, I'm NOT looking for a production. If I'm producing, either my own or somebody else's recording, I'm definitely NOT looking for a finished or even semi-finished production, that's MY job. Even when I'm recording a "cover version" of a well known song I'll more often than not throw out the original arrangement/production. As an artist, same thing - I'm going to want to do MY version of the song.
That is kind of the old way of doing things. In country music it is still done like that. But most of the pop/hiphop genre now, the producer has started becoming the songwriter and presents finished tracks to the artist and manager. Then the artist sings on the those tracks that were picked. There usually isn't a ton of back and forth, it's more of a take it or leave it approach.

Producers in the traditional sense, like you are referring to, usually come into play now with artists that write their own songs (outside of country music). So in those scenarios the artist would be coming in with the demo and the producer would recreate the song's production from the ground up. In those scenarios though, there are no songwriters needed since the artist is the songwriter.

Every artist nowadays is different. Someone like Nicki Minaj might just be looking for finished instrumental tracks to write lyrics and melodies to. Someone like Fergie, Rihanna or Beyonce might be looking for finished songs they can sing on. While someone like Lady Gaga or Adele have song ideas written and need more traditional style producers to help them realize the song as they hear it in their heads. And now those types of producers are usually included in the songwriting credits.

Maroon 5 for example, usually writes or cowrites their own songs, but Moves Like Jagger was originally written by Benjamin Levin and Shellback and pitched it to Maroon 5's management and label. Adam Levine did get credited with "additional lyrics" because he changed a few lines while singing it. But the song was pretty much done when they presented it.
Old 13th August 2012
  #36
Well, yes, the word "producer" means an entirely different thing in hip-hop.

But I didn't get the sense that that was what the OP was talking about.
Old 14th August 2012
  #37
From the OP's original post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelastbencher View Post
My question is - How do I get an artist like Rihanna or Katy Perry record one of my tunes and be a part of their album ?
Old 14th August 2012
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
From the OP's original post...
Well, he's not likely to do that without lyrics, is he?

Not that it really matters because the chances of getting to contacts to do that on the equivalent of a yearly 1 month vacation in LA are negligible.

If he partners with an LA based lyricist and gets in the back door as a songwriter he might have a shot, eventually - but that eventually will probably require moving to LA.
Old 14th August 2012
  #39
[QUOTE=John Eppstein;8161633]Well, he's not likely to do that without lyrics, is he?
[quote]

actually, for someone like Rihanna he probably has a good chance without needing lyrics.

How Much Does It Cost To Make A Hit Song? : Planet Money : NPR

The A&R rep will do a writing camp where they pair "beat makers" with songwriters.

For someone like Katy Perry, who cowrites her songs... he has a pretty good shot.

Quote:
Not that it really matters because the chances of getting to contacts to do that on the equivalent of a yearly 1 month vacation in LA are negligible.
Exactly. That's why I said he is better off moving here.

Quote:
If he partners with an LA based lyricist and gets in the back door as a songwriter he might have a shot, eventually - but that eventually will probably require moving to LA.
True. But gone are the days of true songwriting duos. Everyone is freelance. Everyone is on their own. And trying to find someone who is JUST a lyricist can sometimes be difficult, at least here in LA most songwriters write lyrics and music.

I'm sure he might be able to find some lyricists at the SCL (Welcome to the Society of Composers & Lyricists) but even then, finding a lyricist that specializes in pop music nowadays that doesn't also write music is tough.

Honestly, he should try to work with as many people as possible. Just focusing on finding a lyricist isn't very realistic since there aren't that many left and those that are around who specifically call themselves "lyricists" usually work on musicals.

He should work with other producers and songwriters. He should work with artists. he should work with whoever is willing to work with him. Like in the example of "Moves Like Jagger"...

Shellback (aka Karl Schuster) is a songwriter, producer and musician in his own right. He has written So What, Raise Your Glass, Wataha Want from Me and ****in' Perfect for Pink, If you Seek Amy, 3, I Wanna Go for Brittney Spears, DJ Got Us Falling in Love Again for Usher and works a lot with another songwriter, producer and musician named Max Martin.

Benjamin Levin, aka Benny Blanco, is a songwriter, producer and musician. He has also written songs with Max Martin, Dr Luke, Ryan Tedder, Bruno Mars, etc. He Wrote I Kissed A Girl, Hot N Cold, California Gurls, and Teenage Dream with Katy Perry, He wrote Tik Tok for Kesha, as well as a long list of other hits.

The Two of them together wrote Moves Like Jagger. both are songwriters and lyricists and musicians and producers. Both work with a variety of people.

In the end, he just has to move out here and get himself in front of the eightball if he really wants to break into that scene. There is a whole "clique" of songwriter/producer/musicians that work on all these big records right now. In order to start working on those records, you need to meet these guys, become friends with them and hopefully they'll bring you in.

You can also try getting into that clique through a publishing company, a manager, an agent, etc. There is no one way to do it. But as we've both stated, its next to impossible to do if you aren't here.
Old 14th August 2012
  #40
Lives for gear
 
Amber's Avatar
 

One thing to note as well is a lot of the top 20 is produced with people linked to Dr Luke or Max Martin.

Dr Luke's Prescription Songs publishing company must be responsible for maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of the music over the last year in the Top 20.

All the same people like Ammo, Kool Kojak, Benny Blanco, Jacob Kasher, Maddame Buttons (can't remember her full name), Sophie, Cirkit, Billboard Matt. Who am I missing? All brought in from some type of close contact. I think Dr Luke knew Ammo and Kool Kojak from the east coast.
Old 15th August 2012
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
One thing to note as well is a lot of the top 20 is produced with people linked to Dr Luke or Max Martin.

Dr Luke's Prescription Songs publishing company must be responsible for maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of the music over the last year in the Top 20.

All the same people like Ammo, Kool Kojak, Benny Blanco, Jacob Kasher, Maddame Buttons (can't remember her full name), Sophie, Cirkit, Billboard Matt. Who am I missing? All brought in from some type of close contact. I think Dr Luke knew Ammo and Kool Kojak from the east coast.
Yup, its all about who you are friends with. Max Martin and Dr Luke seem to be the new "it" guys (along with their team). But there are some other guys too. Don't forget about RedOne and Ryan Tedder. Those guys made a name for themselves on their own.
Old 16th August 2012
  #42
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
One thing to note as well is a lot of the top 20 is produced with people linked to Dr Luke or Max Martin.

Dr Luke's Prescription Songs publishing company must be responsible for maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of the music over the last year in the Top 20.

All the same people like Ammo, Kool Kojak, Benny Blanco, Jacob Kasher, Maddame Buttons (can't remember her full name), Sophie, Cirkit, Billboard Matt. Who am I missing? All brought in from some type of close contact. I think Dr Luke knew Ammo and Kool Kojak from the east coast.
its not cirkit, its CIRKUT WITH A C
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