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Billy Corgan - No Money In Music Now
Old 5th June 2012
  #1561
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVIaverick52 View Post
True artists express themselves because they love to
I make music because I love to. I also don't like being taken advantage of.
Old 5th June 2012
  #1562
I love being taken advantage of... it's the truest way I express myself, and my incomprehensible generosity to a callous and utterly misguided world.
Old 5th June 2012
  #1563
Lives for gear
 
sound_music's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVIaverick52 View Post
...Don't get discouraged when you have to supplement your music career with a day job. If you aren't alright with that fact, then you are in it for the wrong reasons. True artists express themselves because they love to, not to make money doing it....

Old 5th June 2012
  #1564
1500+ posts later, so is Billy still not making any money? Did any of you send him a donation? Is he still whining?
Old 5th June 2012
  #1565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shock Value View Post
LOL, Youtube is the place to see them. I suppose they can't compete with that.

But their new shows suck.
Have you seen Ridiculesness yet? It's the funniest show on TV.
Old 5th June 2012
  #1566
Gear Guru
 
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don't listen to joel, he's a genetically modified anunnaki.
Old 5th June 2012
  #1567
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
absolute nonsense, sorry.

do doctors not need to be paid? do mechanics not need to be paid? shouldn't everyone do what they do because the love it?
You don't go to school for 7 years and get $200,000+ in debt to be a musician.
Old 5th June 2012
  #1568
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVIaverick52 View Post
You don't go to school for 7 years and get $200,000+ in debt to be a musician.
Some do.

Others don't go to school at all and spend 15 or 20 years mastering their instrument.
Old 5th June 2012
  #1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVIaverick52 View Post
You don't go to school for 7 years and get $200,000+ in debt to be a musician.
I went to music school for four years.
I actually started my instrument tuition later than most, 11 yrs old, so I had around 8 years education before I started to earn any income.
Also, income is a crap shoot in the music industry, many barely make a penny. 7 years of medical training more or less guarantees a lifetime of good income. How long is the average professional musician's career? Ten, twenty years?

And yes, these days music training costs a lot of money.
Buying your instrument costs thousands. Setting up a studio, or running a young band (rehearsals, energy bills, transport and accom) without income yet more thousands.
Old 5th June 2012
  #1570
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
... shouldn't everyone do what they do because the love it?
No. The actual rule is, if you aren't doing something for fun or profit, you shouldn't be.
Old 5th June 2012
  #1571
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freetard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
7 years of medical training more or less guarantees a lifetime of good income.
Then become a doctor!
Old 6th June 2012
  #1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by freetard View Post
Then become a doctor!
I don't wish to become anything other than I am. I'm just correcting misinformation as posted by people who are inexperienced in the subject they are posting about.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I don't wish to become anything other than I am. I'm just correcting misinformation as posted by people who are inexperienced in the subject they are posting about.
I don't think most musicians go to school for 7 years (more like 8 in the USA) and get $200,000 in debt (it's usually much higher, that's close to my Bachelor degree debt) just to become a musician. So I am not sure what misinformation you are correcting, other than the fact that he was probably being quite conservative.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
No. The actual rule is, if you aren't doing something for fun or profit, you shouldn't be.
Bottom line is, I regularly see creative people told not to expect to earn their living at something they love doing.
But in fact many doctors, nurses, firepersons, police and the military LOVE their jobs, and you NEVER see anyone suggest they shouldn't be paid.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1575
Quote:
Originally Posted by freetard View Post
I don't think most musicians go to school for 7 years (more like 8 in the USA) and get $200,000 in debt (it's usually much higher, that's close to my BS debt) just to become a musician. So I am not sure what misinformation you are correcting, other than the fact that he was probably being quite conservative.
Most musicians are training most of their life.
If you look into the greatest, they often started honing their skills at 4 to 6 years old.
I also didn't claim they would be $200,000 in debt.
But tuition, instrument costs, and starting a band do cost thousands of dollars, and there is NO guaranteed income at the end of it, unlike a career in medicine.
Capice?
Old 6th June 2012
  #1576
Quote:
Originally Posted by freetard View Post
I don't think most musicians go to school for 7 years (more like 8 in the USA) and get $200,000 in debt (it's usually much higher, that's close to my Bachelor degree debt) just to become a musician. So I am not sure what misinformation you are correcting, other than the fact that he was probably being quite conservative.
Your figures are way off.

I don't know where you went to school, but average yearly tuition for a 4 year school was $20,986 in the 2009-2010 school year. That comes out to around $84,000 for a bachelor's degree.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Your figures are way off.

I don't know where you went to school, but average yearly tuition for a 4 year school was $20,986 in the 2009-2010 school year. That comes out to around $84,000 for a bachelor's degree.
Room and board is free?
Old 6th June 2012
  #1578
Lives for gear
 
freetard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Most musicians are training most of their life.
If you look into the greatest, they often started honing their skills at 4 to 6 years old.
I also didn't claim they would be $200,000 in debt.
But tuition, instrument costs, and starting a band do cost thousands of dollars, and there is NO guaranteed income at the end of it, unlike a career in medicine.
Capice?
Then be a doctor. I never claimed it was bad to be a doctor. Doctors at least the USA end up being quite wealthy even with all the debt. But it's not a slum dunk either. Medical schools are selective, and you have to work your ass off to get into one. It's not a given even if you manage to successfully survive pre-med (and that's an accomplishment in its own right). Nothing in life is easy bro. Unless you are born into money, you gotta work f**king hard for it. In any industry.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by freetard View Post
Then be a doctor.
You don't get it.
I'm happy being what I am. I'm just correcting wrong perceptions as posted by you and IVIaverick52.

Quote:
Unless you are born into money, you gotta work f**king hard for it. In any industry.
And what makes you think I haven't?
Old 6th June 2012
  #1580
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freetard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You don't get it.
I'm happy being what I am. I'm just correcting wrong perceptions as posted by you and IVIaverick52.



And what makes you think I haven't?
He said you don't go to school for 7 years and go to debt $200k to be a musician. He is right. You don't have to even finish high school to be a super pro musician, as Ke$ha proved.

I get it. You want to try to convince people that working as a musician is hard. But, you have going to have a very hard time convincing me or anyone rational that playing drums is as difficult as doing surgery. And regardless, if you f**k up, nobody dies.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by freetard View Post
But, you have going to have a very hard time convincing me or anyone rational that playing drums is as difficult as doing surgery.


Which of course has ZERO to do with NOT being paid.

Is running Facebook as hard as performing surgery? Does anyone die if Zuckerberg screws up? Does Zuckerberg enjoy his job?
And yet Zuckerberg earns more money than BOTH doctors and musicians.
In short, this line of argument is asinine.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1582
Gear Guru
 
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Thankfully no one dies in the making of this video. except Buddy gets close.

Old 6th June 2012
  #1583
Yeah, drumming is sooo easy.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1584
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Yeah, drumming is sooo easy.
Drumming IS easy.

Drumming at a professional level is hard, however, and only a relatively few people are talented enough to do it.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1585
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
Drumming IS easy.

Drumming at a professional level is hard, however, and only a relatively few people are talented enough to do it.
Well neither of those points is particularly true.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Well neither of those points is particularly true.
Yeah?

Give me a room full of willing 40 year old soccer moms and some percussion instruments and within an hour we'll have a drum circle playing some steady beats. I'd call that pretty easy.

On the other hand, take the bottom 80% of halfway serious drummers in the world and put them in the studio with, say, Lenny Kravitz and they will end up not making the session. The top 20% will slug it out and only a small handful will have the exact feel that Kravitz wants, and only one will get the gig. Drumming at that level is hard and not many people are good enough to get enough work to stay in it for very long.

Now, which one of these claims do you find false?

Just an aside...I know this is the internet and all, but you seem to disagree on here maybe more than most entirely for the sake of disagreeing. Well, that and the chance to use a disapproving emoticon.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1587
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
Yeah?

Give me a room full of willing 40 year old soccer moms and some percussion instruments and within an hour we'll have a drum circle playing some steady beats. I'd call that pretty easy.
Ooooh, I thought you were talking in context of drum kit, as in the Buddy Rich clip, as in this is a forum for people playing in ensembles, or recording ensembles, not a place for 'soccer moms'.
If that's the benchmark, I learnt the guitar shape for the chord E in five minutes, and by strumming I was playing guitar.
It's all easy right?
Old 6th June 2012
  #1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
On the other hand, take the bottom 80% of halfway serious drummers in the world and put them in the studio with, say, Lenny Kravitz and they will end up not making the session. The top 20% will slug it out and only a small handful will have the exact feel that Kravitz wants, and only one will get the gig.

Judging by Lenny's taste in drummers, it will be one of the aforementioned soccer moms.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1589
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
I know this is the internet and all, but you seem to disagree on here maybe more than most entirely for the sake of disagreeing. Well, that and the chance to use a disapproving emoticon.
I'm often disagreeing because I've been a professional musician all my adult life, and a drummer too. I find myself most often disagreeing with hobbyists and the vaguely interested who as a collective seem to think being in a band is 'easy', writing a hit song is 'easy', making lots of money as a musician while mostly partying is 'easy'.
If so many, with so little real experience, but so much to say, would stop posting these myths, I;'d stop disagreeing with them.
Postscript: drumming as a we know it in popular music, not as parroted by soccer moms - is NOT easy.
Old 6th June 2012
  #1590
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Ooooh, I thought you were talking in context of drum kit, as in the Buddy Rich clip, as in this is a forum for people playing in ensembles, or recording ensembles, not a place for 'soccer moms'.
If that's the benchmark, I learnt the guitar shape for the chord E in five minutes, and by strumming I was playing guitar.
It's all easy right?
Yes. It is. But doing it very well isn't. I don't know many people who would argue with that. I find it to be self-evident, in fact.

Kids play drums at every junior high school in the country. How many of them will be good enough to play professionally? I'd say relatively few. You disagreed with that statement, though.
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