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Billy Corgan - No Money In Music Now
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay- View Post
Where the talent go?
No future = no talent.
Old 14th March 2012
  #122
Lives for gear
 

Many major artists say the same thing. And kids wanting to start music careers by spending tons of money on school make me sad right now.

Quote:
There are other well known experienced people elsewhere on this forum and I never see them wave their experience around nor question or put anyone down...
Yeah, they just tell me the facts. But you're not going to like them... Trent Reznor and Charlie Clouser both switched to only doing soundtrack work now because you can't sell songs anymore.
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #123
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relaxo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
there is still plenty of money in touring and merchandise.
Great for songwriters. Everyone will want the shirt with the songwriter's name on it at the concert. They'll sell 10,000 songwriters-name shirts easy and then the songwriter can eat finally. Oh yeah, he eats at work at Burger King if he has a good boss. He'll write lots of great songs working at Burger King. Didn't Lennon work at KFC during his high output years?

High art comes not from people with a day job. To excel far above the rest and give humanity greatness, most need to be need to be single minded and focused...live breath eat your work...like a good doctor or any other profession. Ask the successful doctor's family if he's around much...no, he's always working at his job.

A lot of talented people who used to sacrifice their comfort to play the music game lottery with their life don't even bother anymore and why should they in a world of thieves that steal anything they can. Everybody pays the price. The great writers are better off fixing PCs for 60,000 USD a year. Humanity steals, humanity loses in the end.

I'd like to see how quickly piracy would end if you could somehow pirate lawyer services. Last I checked cars were not free, KFC was not free, doctors are not free. Nothing that takes a lot of work and talent is free, unless freely given or stolen. And songwriters are now told that their work is unpaid because a new technology makes it easy to steal and because humans are by nature evil and steal whenever they can? Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

It's simple, some writers want their work shared. Other's don't and want to get paid. If you take their copywrited without paying their asking fee you are a criminal, it's quite simple. Oh, your soul "needs" music, but you can't afford it? Steal it then! Your body needs food, do you steal 90% of your food as well? (You would if you could...you're so poor.) Steal steal steal!!! What joy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
but since when does any one have the right to make money in the music business anyway? it's not a given.
By law, since when does anyone have a right to steal copywrited material of any sort without paying the asking price?


Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
just shut up and be happy anyone even listens to your music, money is just an added bonus
Just shut up and be happy to take all the uncopywrited music you want. On the minuscule chance uncopywrited music becomes a big CD in your life is just an added bonus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
be thankful you can still play and you ca nrecord. If you don't make any money too bad. Join the club and shut your mouth
Be thankful you have uncopywrited music to keep. If it's sucks too bad.
Old 14th March 2012
  #124
Gear Head
 
sn0rk's Avatar
 

Ok. That's it. I'm done. Selling ALL my gear. :P

Sent from my ADR6300 using Gearslutz App
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sn0rk View Post
Ok. That's it. I'm done. Selling ALL my gear. :P

Sent from my ADR6300 using Gearslutz App
****, I thought about that too this year. But I simply enjoy the process of making music too much to ever succumb to that level of "failure". So I'm off to find a new career... Video, Film, Advertising media for the internet... It's not the end of the world, although sometimes it feels like it. Back to workin' for the Man.

Only other option is to try and move to LA and break into sound track work, but that's a crap-shoot. We'll see...
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sn0rk View Post
Ok. That's it. I'm done. Selling ALL my gear. :P

Finally , someone who has a bit of sense in this thread!!


Seriously , what has the net taught us about homo sapiens natural proclivities??
Do we naturally choose symbiosis or become parasites when an easy opportunity to do so provides itself???

I'm quite assured that in the future , there will be an overabundance of timeless classic music provided gratis from the vow of poverty artist . Bless their souls !!!
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by initialsBB View Post
Well it's obvious to me but there are plenty of people here who seem to believe that innovation comes only through major label financing and that nothing can be accomplished in the underground. The contradictions were interesting to me because the situation is full of contradictions. I think anyone who has a simplistic take on these things is foolish.
Actually, it's more like *innovation* generally happens at the bottom. But, if you want to move from innovation to implementation, you generally need money, and the labels provide that. There's nothing at all unusual about that equation. It's how the business work works for the most part. Individual entrepreneurs come up with ideas, but ideas don't assemble and sell themselves. That requires money. So they go to VCs or they find a larger company to buy their idea or their smaller company.

Some folks who have an idealistic view of the world may claim that this is unfair, because I came up with the idea. But without the funding to take it from an idea to an implementation, then I'd still just be sitting here with an idea. Product oriented self-bootstrappping businesses are not all that common, because it's just really tough to do.

All these same issues apply in the music business world. The musician is the guy at the bottom who has an idea. You can sit there with your idea and sell a hundred copies, or you can try to take a swing for the fences. If you want to do the latter, you either have to be rich yourself or have a rich relative or you find someone to help you pay for it.

So it's not like the innovation that happens at the bottom is in and of itself valuable to mankind. It's valuable to mankind when it's turned into something useful or entertaining and enough people are made aware of it and interested in obtaining it that you can create a self-sustaining means to create more of it (maybe even give some other people a job in the process.)
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
My approach is to post opinion/fact as I see see it, based on my experiences.
I can't do any more than that.
No, I guess you can't....
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #129
So why don't you try it?
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

Some folks who have an idealistic view of the world may claim that this is unfair, because I came up with the idea. But without the funding to take it from an idea to an implementation, then I'd still just be sitting here with an idea. Product oriented self-bootstrappping businesses are not all that common, because it's just really tough to do.

All these same issues apply in the music business world. The musician is the guy at the bottom who has an idea. You can sit there with your idea and sell a hundred copies, or you can try to take a swing for the fences. If you want to do the latter, you either have to be rich yourself or have a rich relative or you find someone to help you pay for it.
Why don't you, using your personal experience (that's a prerequisite around here)...

explain specifically how that works, compare it to how it works in the music business and "regular" businesses...

without any actual specifics on how these things work, it doesn't mean much...
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
So why don't you try it?
I did awhile ago...

If I wanted to discuss this stuff in any serious way, I wouldn't do it here, nor am I really into pointless debating much...

I don't think it serves much purpose, and because I find the most vocal participants here to be unpleasant (to say the least), there's not much reason to get involved...

like I said, I'll be going soon so you'll have your ball back and you can continue to treat the other participants here however you like...
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #132
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
Great for songwriters. Everyone will want the shirt with the songwriter's name on it at the concert. They'll sell 10,000 songwriters-name shirts easy and then the songwriter can eat finally. Oh yeah, he eats at work at Burger King if he has a good boss. He'll write lots of great songs working at Burger King. Didn't Lennon work at KFC during his high output years?
personally I don't think he should have been paid for some of the crap he wrote but that's another story

Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
High art comes not from people with a day job.
arrogance....that's not true at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
To excel far above the rest and give humanity greatness, most need to be need to be single minded and focused...live breath eat your work...
lol, so you need to live in a gutter for a few years to be accomplished artist...? yeah right.....
bro we all lived in rehearsal spaces living the dream. It doesn't earn you the right to anything

Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
like a good doctor or any other profession. Ask the successful doctor's family if he's around much...no, he's always working at his job.
this is irrelevant like much of your point, if that's what you were trying to make


Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post


By law, since when does anyone have a right to steal copywrited material of any sort without paying the asking price?
I'm not talking about stealing music. But no one has the right to make a dime in the music industry.



Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
Just shut up and be happy to take all the uncopywrited music you want. On the minuscule chance uncopywrited music becomes a big CD in your life is just an added bonus.
I think you publish music

Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
Be thankful you have uncopywrited music to keep. If it's sucks too bad.
you too mate, keep banging out the hits on that upright. Looks like you need to starve a little more if you are going to 'make it'

you obviously know nothing about art or the music business. For the record they are not the same thing by the way
and they are very rarely interchangeable if at all
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
I did awhile ago...

If I wanted to discuss this stuff in any serious way, I wouldn't do it here, nor am I really into pointless debating much...

I don't think it serves much purpose, and because I find the most vocal participants here to be unpleasant (to say the least), there's not much reason to get involved...

like I said, I'll be going soon so you'll have your ball back and you can continue to treat the other participants here however you like...
Hey man, that's a total bull**** answer.
Old 14th March 2012
  #134
Not sure how things work in other genres, but hip hop is hurting sales wise for major & indie.

However, the good news is, so many people are creating followings and booking small paid tours with no backing at all, that its crazy.

Along with it being able to brand themselves & control it %100. Merchandise and endorsements are rolling.

Artists like Kendrick Lamar, Pac Fiv & Nipsey Hustle are on stage constantly with no official album out.

No one watches videos on TV, its computer and cell phone. Those computers & phones have suggestion and search engines that allow a local artist who has a buzz, follow behind a video from Kanye West or Lady GaGa.

I agree, The pie slices are smaller but so many people can eat now.

Sent from my MB860 using Gearslutz App
Old 14th March 2012
  #135
Lives for gear
 

what's wrong with his left hand (holding the mic)???? half way through the video it starts turning BRIGHT RED.

anyway - he makes some good points.. interesting to hear his thoughts.
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid360 View Post
Don't Fukkin' talk down to us like we're all idiots.
Oh the irony...

for god sake's...

here's something you don't see here ever:

I apologize!

Even though I felt you were being rude...I apologize to you for saying what I said in reply...

I don't get why you said what you said...

the last thing I would do is talk down to anyone...my other comments about the participants here certainly weren't directed at you if that's what you think...

Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #137
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by potslutz View Post
blues people where homeless that's how they got the feeling to write music.
now every musicians want to have a billion dollar house on the hills,and it is standard
LOVE IT!!!!
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #138
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
Oh the irony...

for god sake's...

here's something you don't see here ever:

I apologize!

Even though I felt you were being rude...I apologize to you for saying what I said in reply...

I don't get why you said what you said...

the last thing I would do is talk down to anyone...my other comments about the participants here certainly weren't directed at you if that's what you think...

I apologize too. Just passionate about the future of Musicians.
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #139
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid360 View Post
I apologize too. Just passionate about the future of Musicians.
Cool.

Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #140
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
If I wanted to discuss this stuff in any serious way, I wouldn't do it here, nor am I really into pointless debating much...
So your presence is just to waste time you can't fill another way?
Old 14th March 2012
  #141
Lives for gear
 

so, no thoughts on why his hand is bright red?
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #142
Dunno, maybe he has it wired for a light show, as he's concerned artists need to be more visually interesting.
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #143
Quote:
Originally Posted by boon View Post
so, no thoughts on why his hand is bright red?
Updating the Uncle Fester thing, you know with the lightbulb?
Old 14th March 2012
  #144
Lives for gear
 
Halloween's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boon View Post
so, no thoughts on why his hand is bright red?
I guess youve never seen a birthmark before....

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Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #145
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
So your presence is just to waste time you can't fill another way?
It's amusing...is that not allowed as well?

When you post here, are you under the impression that you are accomplishing something? That's a facepalmer which might as well be a rosypalmer, apparently like Billy Corgan's...

Old 14th March 2012
  #146
It's called a "port-wine stain" Port-wine stain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's a little bit of info here : The Future Embrace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Poor guy, well I say poor guy, but he's considerably richer than (probably) you or I and hasn't been having too bad a go of it all.

With regards what he's saying, I agree with him. But contrary to the title of this thread he's not saying that there's no money in music, he's saying there's no money in the old music business model and the business needs to change to become relevant. That's a different thing and I get the feeling that some people are responding to this thread without having actually watched the video. Anyhow, thanks for the link.
Old 14th March 2012
  #147
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cdog's Avatar
There's no money in music, everyone is solid.




(sorry, twoplustwo meme)
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
It's amusing...is that not allowed as well?

When you post here, are you under the impression that you are accomplishing something? That's a facepalmer which might as well be a rosypalmer, apparently like Billy Corgan's...

awesome, so you've just admitted to being a troll...
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #149
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tvsky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
Never get tired of that graph...I wonder if it's under any sort of copyright?
rack gear gets a commission every time he posts it

its the new business model
Old 14th March 2012 | Show parent
  #150
Lives for gear
 
tvsky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
No future = no talent.
that's funny because before we even had a recording industry of any kind , there were some awfully talented musicians around
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