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Billy Corgan - No Money In Music Now
Old 13th March 2012
  #61
Gear Maniac
 
combfilter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by potslutz View Post
musicians that are following money are not musicians but bankers
We're not talking about getting rich. We are talking about making a decent living.
Old 13th March 2012
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
The chart is useless. It compares sales in 1999--the height of the artificially inflated CD boom.

Compare record sales in 1989 to sales in 2009 if you want a more accurate assessment.

That doesn't dispute that it's a harder time out there...I just hate the propaganda BS line that a)record sales halved in the 2000s while forgetting to mention them DOUBLING in the 90s and b) that Napster was the reason for the fail. It was "a" reason...but, not even the primary one, ehm...big box retail...ignoring long term for quarterly profits...selling/merging during the hyper CD replacement inflation knowing full well that sales would drop back off--the buyers didn't know that and tried to turn business practices on their ear to save their investments...
Piracy, pure and simple.
Old 13th March 2012
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
You can make lots of money doing shows.
For a well-known artist, maybe.
Old 13th March 2012
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo View Post
No Professional Experience, that's what I thought. Always funny to see those who couldn't and can't tell those who can and do, how it should be done.
It was always funny watching Wile E Coyote trying to spring lame assed traps in cartoons too. You bring back my childhood.
Old 13th March 2012
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo View Post
Piracy, pure and simple.
Piracy was only a problem in the old model, whose 15 minutes is up. The new world doesn't have piracy as a problem, because it purposely omitted places for cash registers and turnstiles.

The new model doesn't support the greed that infected the old one. The new model will develop into a more quantum reality where exchange is concerned. The requirement that "my left hand will hold out money towards your right hand, while your right hand holds out product towards my left hand and neither will let go until the other one does will fade away, and people will stop thinking like that and start giving more freely, without an expectation of a chi-ching sound and all they need will come to them as if by magic and everybody will be fine and happy.

No, I'm not a hippy and no I don't take drugs. I'm a realist am able to cast ahead and taste the future potentials.

(can't wait to hear this one. Shoot!)
Old 13th March 2012
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzschreiner View Post
No, I'm not a hippy and no I don't take drugs.
I don't believe you .
I'm Spaceman. Take me to your dealer...umm.. i mean leader.
Old 13th March 2012
  #67
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Perhaps this is already happening, but I think the majority of music production/recording in the future will be done on smaller systems for cheap and album done in the traditional way will be a boutique thing.

People are adapting to the sound of all in the box productions and disposable music, it actually seems logical to work all in the box fast (if you have to poop out a ton of disposable crap fast).

I am sick of everybody and their grandma shoving their music in my face, I don't care about you band!! Most bands suck...
Old 13th March 2012
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Haze View Post
Perhaps this is already happening, but I think the majority of music production/recording in the future will be done on smaller systems for cheap and album done in the traditional way will be a boutique thing.

People are adapting to the sound of all in the box productions and disposable music, it actually seems logical to work all in the box fast (if you have to poop out a ton of disposable crap fast).

I am sick of everybody and their grandma shoving their music in my face, I don't care about you band!! Most bands suck...
I think the field is wide open. It's up to us. It's up to those who create to decide how it will go. The industry will adapt to support us, or new industry will spring up if the old can't.

If we continue to demand higher quality, the means will be found to enable that, without necessarily the requirement that we go on bended knee before the venture capitalist purse string holder.

Entrepreneurs tuned in to the newer energies surrounding the recording industry will develop niche market supplies that fit with what we want.

I've been exploring the few extremely high quality designers/manufacturers of "new" vintage 500 series modules. These things are bringing the price of quality down in leaps. I wish I'd been aware of them before spending what I did on my preamps.

I've seen some that are small mastering mixers for out of the box summing to 2 tracks.(Still mixing in the box, but through the analogue circuitry at the final stage before mastering) I think it was around 500 bucks.

There is no reason it has to be prohibitively expensive to record in high quality by your self.

Not everybody needs a full pro set up for what they want to do, and would be able to hire one on an individual basis if they did, or work something out if they didn't have the budget. There is always a way.

Mics for 10% of the price make it to 90% of the sound quality, and with a will, this could be hugely extended. Think Behringer without the cheap components. Like Classic API in Chicago with kits for a couple hundred that you can solder up yourself, to give you a really nice preamp. If you only need a couple, anyone could manage it.

Software could be made more user friendly, with a much easier learning curve. Prosumer versions, which would do the important functions well and easily, while the full pro versions retain all the bells and whistles.

There are people listening to what musicians are saying they need, and they are working to fill that need, and some are doing it as reasonably as they can. To where everyone wins enough, and nobody tries to extract too much out of the smaller purse.

Apogee has their prosumer price point products like the Jam, One, Mic that supplies quality sound to the DIYer in his bedroom or basement. Apps for iPad are making it a very interesting fledgling platform to sketch on, anytime, anywhere.

I think the time is coming when you'll really need to have a good reason to want to spend 300 bucks an hour in a pro studio to make an album.

I get people in my studio who do all they can at home, using whatever resources they have available, and they come in to track a "Very well Rehearsesd" vocal or two. In and out in an hour. The same could be done for string or horn parts if you needed the real thing for a track. Most people could find talent to play parts they couldn't do for cheap or free.

It's kind of a hybrid way of working until the dust from the collapse of the old system settles.

But the smart money right now is on getting creative and vocal about how you want the new one to shape up. It's in the idea stage now, so add your voice to the fray while everything is so malleable and fired up as a potential energy rather than energy locked into a fixed structure, like the one the old record industry dinosaurs are carping about.
Old 13th March 2012
  #69
Gear Maniac
 

I'm not sure where this fits into this discussion. I hesitate to call myself a musician as it's only a very part time endeavor, but I've doing it since my teens, about 30 years. When I started playing bars in 1990 we got $50 a guy, free drinks and dinner. Slowly over the decades that has been whittled down to maybe getting $50, mostly $40-25, no dinner or drinks.
Personally, I just think that musicians are currently undervalued. I still remember in Salem, MA, where we mostly played, there was a dozen places every weekend where we could play. Now, maybe 3 or 4. I used to blame DJ's. Bar owners saw a cheaper way out and, to be honest, the crowds preferred dancing to DJ's. Technology, democratization of music with computers, the internet, whatever you want to call it, it is taking away from gigging musicians. So then where does talent develop? In bedrooms with an IMac? Maybe. Sometimes. With labels at least you had artist development, engineers who apprenticed from the bottom up, producers who could play and write better that you. How many truly talented engineers, musicians, producers where there? A few hundred, thousand? I always draw a professional sports analogy. Everybody played, but how many make it? How many superstars? For every Mozart, Rudy Van Gelder, or Phil Ramone there where hundreds, thousands, of lesser known but equally talented artists. Am I as talented as them? A resounding no! Sure, labels could drop you at a moments notice, and suck your money and soul up like a vacuum, but what's the alternative today? You spend tens of thousands on gear or studio time? Then, like someone here posted previously, you give it away. Then what? A tour? I've been there. Crammed in a van, playing a Monday night in a "club" just outside Nashville. Waffle house after Waffle house. Good times. Some of the bands I've been in have hit the CMJ charts, opened for bigger acts. I personally had no illusion I would ever make a career as a musician. I do it for fun.
In reality, for most of us there is no money in music, and it's probably only going to get worse.
So, I just found my Rick Danko autograph the other day after it being lost for years. On it he wrote: Jonathan, Rock on! So I do.
Old 13th March 2012
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzschreiner View Post

It's kind of a hybrid way of working until the dust from the collapse of the old system settles.

But the smart money right now is on getting creative and vocal about how you want the new one to shape up. It's in the idea stage now, so add your voice to the fray while everything is so malleable and fired up as a potential energy rather than energy locked into a fixed structure, like the old record industry dinosaurs are carping about.
The thing is, you see the world as an :" x OR y " proposition. I see it as an : "x AND y" proposition.

To me , the ( failed) promise of Internet, was to have at last a world where musicians that work in genres outside the mass market commercial music could thrive and make a living. Perhaps not becoming as rich as some of the "old" rock stars, but being able to sustain a living to them and their family ( pay the rent, feed their child, have a roof, etc..), and being able to get full-time into their art and their craft, which can only evolve if you devote significant time to it, and hard to develop if you can only afford to spend 3 hours on Sunday afternoon on it ( because you're working a full-time job the rest of the time).
Becoming a great musician takes time , and a lot of work. Greatness is not achievable if only treated as a part-time occupation. There are exceptions, but that's why it's called "exception".

And that doesn't necessarely implies that you have to kill and burn everything that came before you. It's an "AND" proposition, not an "OR" one.
Universal and Justin Bieber can still (try) to sell their stuff, while independent artists ( and small labels offering help in marketing, touring and promotion to those artists ) are being empowered to sustain a living and reaching more people, that was the promise of Internet, to me.

Hybrid situations are good too. You can record all your album in a big studio, or only part of it in a studio and the rest in your home-studio, or everything at home if you're well-equiped and skilled as an engineer.

You can also do all the tour financing, distribution , marketing and promo yourself if you have the funds and the skills, or only do part of it and let other people take care of the parts you don't want/can't , or just let everything be handled by a label. Again, the promise of Internet was ADDING new propositions, not substracting them.

Piracy played a huge part in reducing possible options.
Old 13th March 2012
  #71
Gear Maniac
 

Does anyone else find it interesting that whilst Msr. Corgin expostulates on the vagaries of the music business and how music is monetized we are staring at Samsung logo's ?

-joel
Old 13th March 2012
  #72
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzschreiner View Post
Piracy was only a problem in the old model, whose 15 minutes is up. The new world doesn't have piracy as a problem, because it purposely omitted places for cash registers and turnstiles.

The new model doesn't support the greed that infected the old one. The new model will develop into a more quantum reality where exchange is concerned. The requirement that "my left hand will hold out money towards your right hand, while your right hand holds out product towards my left hand and neither will let go until the other one does will fade away, and people will stop thinking like that and start giving more freely, without an expectation of a chi-ching sound and all they need will come to them as if by magic and everybody will be fine and happy.

No, I'm not a hippy and no I don't take drugs. I'm a realist am able to cast ahead and taste the future potentials.

(can't wait to hear this one. Shoot!)
You do realize that Star Trek was a work of FICTION, right?

You may not take drugs, but you went on a Star Trek trip --and never came back! (or maybe just the conventions?)

...live long and prosper...
Old 13th March 2012
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
The thing is, you see the world as an :" x OR y " proposition. I see it as an : "x AND y" proposition.

To me , the ( failed) promise of Internet, was to have at last a world where musicians that work in genres outside the mass market commercial music could thrive and make a living. Perhaps not becoming as rich as some of the "old" rock stars, but being able to sustain a living to them and their family ( pay the rent, feed their child, have a roof, etc..), and being able to get full-time into their art and their craft, which can only evolve if you devote significant time to it, and hard to develop if you can only afford to spend 3 hours on Sunday afternoon on it ( because you're working a full-time job the rest of the time).
Becoming a great musician takes time , and a lot of work. Greatness is not achievable if only treated as a part-time occupation. There are exceptions, but that's why it's called "exception".

And that doesn't necessarely implies that you have to kill and burn everything that came before you. It's an "AND" proposition, not an "OR" one.
Universal and Justin Bieber can still (try) to sell their stuff, while independent artists ( and small labels offering help in marketing, touring and promotion to those artists ) are being empowered to sustain a living and reaching more people, that was the promise of Internet, to me.

Hybrid situations are good too. You can record all your album in a big studio, or only part of it in a studio and the rest in your home-studio, or everything at home if you're well-equiped and skilled as an engineer.

You can also do all the tour financing, distribution , marketing and promo yourself if you have the funds and the skills, or only do part of it and let other people take care of the parts you don't want/can't , or just let everything be handled by a label. Again, the promise of Internet was ADDING new propositions, not substracting them.

Piracy played a huge part in reducing possible options.
I'd agree to the X or Y vs X and Y analogy only to a point. I've actually used the black and white analogy several times in the course of debate over these issues.

I have 2 actual objections, and so areas where my thinking would fall into either/or.

One has to do with isolating the actual problem. This is a highly variable question, as it depends on background, perspective, intentions, and area of activity of the person experiencing the problem. I've simply taken a more fundamental area of address to inject into the debate.

If the problem is "how do I make enough money to live comfortably doing what I choose to do" and then add the narrowing qualifier, in the music/recording/pro musician industry/business, then I'm afraid that Einsteins proposal that "you can't solve a problem from the level of consciousness which conceived of it" applies, because you can't answer that question from that specifically narrowed and qualified a perspective, without having your answer spilling over into other areas not within the problem area.

And that raises my second area of objection, and the reason for my participation in these types of threads, and that is that the solutions being offered up by those suffering the problems perceived to be destroying the areas of intellectual property rights and ownership, copyright and patent law, and the freewheeling nature of the internet, not only spill over into other areas, they try to blanket and put under tight control, all areas which they could in any way consider to be "of interest" to them.

New laws and regulations and tighter implementation of existing laws and regulations, and stiffer punishment all around to "protect" the marketplace.

This will never work for several reasons. One, the internet will prove too slippery to be contained by brute force control attempts. Two, it's an example of X not giving a **** what it's solutions do to Y. (And the proponents said as much in earlier and now closed threads). Three, it's tantamount to X trying to keep the whole game shoe horned into it's old playing field so they can keep on keeping on in the only way they know how, even though that cat has left the bag, and the genie has escaped the bottle. And Four, there is already a correction taking place, which does not discriminate between X or Y or any other letter, except $.

I have nothing against money, but I have everything against it's use as a major or even primary control point on every individual who calls themselves "earthling". (you in that number??)

So to me, the problem in need of solving, is the root problem of how much of a struggle for survival and how much the created obsession of chasing of more and more money has taken us down a path where we no longer have anything like a choice in the matter.

If you step outside of the situation, you can easily see how this is entirely a manufactured problem, created by a few lu****l and greedy people for whom the game has gone way out of control, as there is a total disconnect between money and anything real and actual, in fact. Farm fields don't care if money exists. They'll produce food just fine, regardless. Factories and machines don't care if money exists, they'll go on popping together the products we need regardless. The Earth doesn't care if money exists, she'll provide all the raw materials for us to shape into all the things we desire and need, regardless of whether money changes hands or not. People don't naturally care if money exists, they'll happily do whatever they need to or want to are are asked to do to support each other, regardless of whether money exists or changes hands or not. At least that would be the case if they hadn't been hoodwinked into letting a few greedy old bastards convince a few crooked politicians to let them take over the creation of money so they could begin this slow devolvement into subjugation to a basically non-existent commodity.

And notion of lack is created. As is the idea that you should need anyone elses money to enable anything you'd like to do. It's a totally created reality, and it is becoming obsolete, and the slower anyone in the music business, or any other business or even in life on earth is to realize that, the more of a challenge the transition will become.

Just because most have no frame of reference for society on modern day Earth without the ubiquitous presence of money, doesn't mean it needs and must be present.

I've discovered several smallish gifting communities that function without money in it's current role. They use money, but as it was intended. As a means of exchange rather then as the permitter of life.

So TLDR version, My thinking is black and white in a couple of areas. I disagree with the effort to solve this problem at too narrow a level of address, because as has already been demonstrated, the solutions will hamper everyone far and wide and solve nothing. In other words all destruction and no construction.

And it's a mistake to solve How to make a living as a professional musician in this day in age, while ignoring what created and fueled the problem in the first place.

I'd think people would get sick of mopping the floor and opt instead to fix the leaking water cooler which is the source of the constant mess.
Old 13th March 2012
  #74
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Halloween's Avatar
Threads die when people start posting fkn novels, this isn't a blog. I agree with Dean 100% that you guys trading Corgan aren't even relevant, Billy has platinum records, you have a hackintosh.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App
Old 13th March 2012
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzschreiner View Post
It was always funny watching Wile E Coyote trying to spring lame assed traps in cartoons too. You bring back my childhood.
Insults are the sure sign of a lost argument.
Old 13th March 2012
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
You do realize that Star Trek was a work of FICTION, right?

You may not take drugs, but you went on a Star Trek trip --and never came back! (or maybe just the conventions?)

...live long and prosper...
Awesome Post!
Old 13th March 2012
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzschreiner View Post
Piracy was only a problem in the old model, whose 15 minutes is up. The new world doesn't have piracy as a problem, because it purposely omitted places for cash registers and turnstiles.

The new model doesn't support the greed that infected the old one. The new model will develop into a more quantum reality where exchange is concerned. The requirement that "my left hand will hold out money towards your right hand, while your right hand holds out product towards my left hand and neither will let go until the other one does will fade away, and people will stop thinking like that and start giving more freely, without an expectation of a chi-ching sound and all they need will come to them as if by magic and everybody will be fine and happy.

No, I'm not a hippy and no I don't take drugs. I'm a realist am able to cast ahead and taste the future potentials.

(can't wait to hear this one. Shoot!)
Piracy is a Problem for EVERYONE who is working in or aspires to have a professional career. Period.
Old 13th March 2012
  #78
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzschreiner View Post

The new model doesn't support the greed that infected the old one. The new model will develop into a more quantum reality where exchange is concerned. The requirement that "my left hand will hold out money towards your right hand, while your right hand holds out product towards my left hand and neither will let go until the other one does will fade away, and people will stop thinking like that and start giving more freely, without an expectation of a chi-ching sound and all they need will come to them as if by magic and everybody will be fine and happy.

No, I'm not a hippy and no I don't take drugs. I'm a realist am able to cast ahead and taste the future potentials.

(can't wait to hear this one. Shoot!)
EBT, yo! (Electronic Benefit Transfer). The future is now!

Old 13th March 2012
  #79
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Here's my take on it....
Obviously, recordings don't sell like they use to. Part of that may be the economy, but mostly it's because of digital technology.
But if you're a gifted musician/entertainer, and can deliver great live performances, you can still earn an income. It may or may not be a modest income, which means you may or may not have to supplement it with something else....but there you have it. Just don't put $20,000 into a project unless your fan base is big enough to justify it.

As for those who record for a living, I also believe that if you are a gifted engineer there is money to be made. Home recording will help weed out the studios that produce sub-par products for sure. But there are also going to be artists out there who have built up large enough fan bases and want their music to sound as good as it can.

I couldn't care less what Billy Corgin says. His music has always portrayed a negative/apathetic worldview so I wouldn't expect anything less from his comments.
Old 13th March 2012
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzschreiner View Post
There is no reason it has to be prohibitively expensive to record in high quality by your self.
It is. It always will be. It always has to be.

Time.

You can't poop out high quality in no time flat. You can't learn the skills to even make high quality without oodles of time. A single project takes hours each day for weeks on end. Where does the money come from to eat, gas up the car, and pay the bills while you are doing your music production?

Acquiring the skill to play the instruments takes a good 10 years. The totally different skill of recording/mixing takes another good 10 years. Those skills are a huge cost on the album, whether they end up having their cost spread out over 2 albums or 200 albums.

Then there is the simple reality of air moving. Rooms are expensive. Some types of music need big rooms. Now way around it if that is the type of music you want to make. All types of music need monitoring. For quality, which is the entire point of what we are going for here, you needs thousands upon thousands of dollars in your monitoring.
Old 13th March 2012
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo View Post
There is not. Period. If so prove it. Recorded Music Sales are down and nothing else is really compensating for it.
Make a list of all of the way a recording artist makes money other than record sales, and post it. Also post your opinion of whether that revenue is up or down. Then from there tell me if you still need proof and I'll work on it.

The point is to look at the record business separate from the music business as a whole.
Old 13th March 2012
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by combfilter View Post
We're not talking about getting rich. We are talking about making a decent living.
There are plenty of bankers who aren't rich.

Musicians who sign major label deals are getting themselves into Wall Street as much as they are getting themselves in to making art.
Old 13th March 2012
  #83
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
I hate to get huffy here, but Billy Corgan and the Pumpkins put out music orders of magnitude better than any of you juvenilles will who are smacking him down. He is so far beyond you on the scale of accomplishment that you aren't even visible. So it's pretty funny to hear people putting him down, people whose vision is basically working at Costco while recording songs in your bedroom, that maybe 100 people will ever listen to, if you are lucky.

The Pumpkins sold what, 6 million copies of an album that would have sold for probably $24 or some such back at that time when B&M music stores still ruled. Back when people actually voted with their dollars, and people voted for them big time.
true words, brother!
Old 13th March 2012
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
But this is a good thing. It will weed out those that are in it for the wrong reasons. Its a positive development in the long run.
Except we are seeing more X Factor, more Beiber, more Rhianna, more GaGa, more The Voice.
The facts don't chime with your theory.
Old 13th March 2012
  #85
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
I couldn't care less what Billy Corgin says. His music has always portrayed a negative/apathetic worldview so I wouldn't expect anything less from his comments.
his music jas NEVER portrayed just a a negative/apathetic worldview... why are here so many corgan-bashers? just because he has reached MORE than you will ever reach?
just because he is more human than you will ever be?

just my two cent but corgan is a really good guitar-player, songwriter and vocalist... he is a REAL artists...has a huge talent...he has written round about 700 songs...even his b-sides are as good as real album-tracks...he has written songs that have touched a whole generation and the pumpkins were almost as big as nirvana in the 90s.
compared to corgan and the pumpkins even today's sucessful rock-artists are ****ing nobodies and robots.
Old 13th March 2012
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Musicians who sign major label deals are getting themselves into Wall Street as much as they are getting themselves in to making art.
The reason artists sign with major labels is because they feel they need a bigger infrastructure behind them and a bigger reach around the globe. Something independents basically can't offer.
Personally I'm a fan of independents, but I think it's wrong to link 'Wall St' with mainstream acts and stadium style bands who sign with major labels. Those labels are simply the most appropriate home for that level of music.
Old 13th March 2012
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Haze View Post
Perhaps this is already happening, but I think the majority of music production/recording in the future will be done on smaller systems for cheap and album done in the traditional way will be a boutique thing.

People are adapting to the sound of all in the box productions and disposable music, it actually seems logical to work all in the box fast (if you have to poop out a ton of disposable crap fast).

I am sick of everybody and their grandma shoving their music in my face, I don't care about you band!! Most bands suck...
I agree with this but for different reasons. Softsynths are the new distortion.

We used to have big band jazz as pop, then the Everly Brothers with their acoustic guitars, then came distortion and wiped that out as mainstream music.

We then had evolutions of rock music made by bands with a split in the 70's to include disco singers, but that music was still made by a band.

Midi began the change, but really it was the PC that brought it on fully and made the DAW an instrument, which is what it is. We'd consider an Akai S900 an instrument and an MPC an instrument. There's no difference besides the interface and the amount of data that's manageable.

At the point mainstream music is made/played on a computer, not a set of rock instruments. People have grown up making music on their own and it interests them. There are DJ's who do shows - not just clubs, but play The Bowery Ballroom.

This is not a temporary thing, it is a fundamental change in the style of music that's made and the instruments it's played on.

When we start to see specialize control surfaces for interfacing with DAWs, it should be clear. They already exist for Abelton. I'd love a Wacom tablet for certain types of editing. What would we end up with if Apple made a conceptually different interface where you had all sorts of knobs, sliders, screens, windows, pads for you fingers, pad for stick, pads that worked like Chaos pads but were assignable to anything including creating movement ratios (Sliding up makes fader 2 move 2x as much as fader 1).

I specify Apple because everything I listed already exists and I'm sure they'd come up with interfaces that make sense, but we've never thought of.

As processing power gets better, liquid audio will be real time and also liquid with real time quantization so that you don't need to do anything besides point.

Multiple users working on the same DAW/session simultaneously will happen too.

Music is music, and it doesn't matter how it's made. Everyone here knows the saying it's not the gear it's the engineer. That applies to instruments and tones. Music is emotions turned into sounds that when played is sound that turns into emotions. The details of how that's done are irrelevant.

They type of music I like is "rock" played by a band of good musicians, the type that no longer exist under the age of 40. I don't like it, but it's over. In a lot of ways it should be because each new generation has it's own thing - style/sound/identity. It's not what we're used to, so we can't really listen with the open mind of a child hearing music for the first time and having that first blast of dopamine that they chase every time they turn on music.
Old 13th March 2012
  #88
I think what Billy says about music needing visual content to draw the listener in is absolutely spot on...an artist doing this is Plan B, whose new single Ill Manors is part of a music film that he wrote and directed...that's the kind of thing artists are going to have to do to stand out....
Old 13th March 2012
  #89
Philosophically I disagree with Corgan.
Music isn't really a visual art form.
Once you give visuals equal prominence with the music, you diminish the consumers ability to image their own landscape. When you hear a love song, each person has their own image of the girl or guy being sung about. Most of the time visuals make that decision for you.
And as Corgan says rather confusingly, MTV doesn't work any more, but he follows that by claiming visuals are the future for music.
Old 13th March 2012
  #90
Lives for gear
 

I was at Corgan's talk yesterday at SXSW and he said a lot of interesting stuff, much of which probably would have pissed off everyone here. He was a little all over the place, but the moderator was terrible. Still it was a good talk and I hope a video or transcript of the whole thing eventually ends up online.

Here are some highlights from memory
- he said that the labels used illegal downloading as a "smokescreen" and that their problems all date back to telling Napster to f off rather than realizing that people wanted to share music the way they always had.

- at the same time he talked about the reality that people don't want to pay for music anymore so it was all a little contradictory. Obviously he knows that piracy is the real issue but it's like he didn't want to come straight out and say it in a room full of tech people.

- he talked about how there's no room for the great middle ground artists and one of my favorite quotes was something along the lines of "you can either be a robot or some jerk in his basement"

- one of his most laughable claims was that alternative music was one of the greatest artistic movements in human history. He may have even said the greatest.

- there was no time left for a Q&A so they only took one question from the audience. The guy said something kind of confrontational but didn't have a mic so nobody could hear him, so Corgan invited him up on stage and they had a little argument in front of everyone. it was pretty amusing.

Evidently he has a plan to put together a group of bloggers who will moderate a discussion of sorts with fans and the fans will be able to come to some kind of consensus about which items they want to hear from the Pumpkins archives as well as setting a price for it. He's going to (or already has?) publish a list of everything in their archives and then basically leave it up to the fans what gets released and for how much so then they can't complain about the price. It sounded pretty strange.

The most interesting point he made was about the internet's culture of negativity and dismissal. He talked about how in the '90s he could say or do something on stage that would anger 40% of the audience but make 60% of the audience like him even better. But now the 40% just tweets what a jerk he is and people who weren't even there decide "I'm not going to go see that asshole". So he decided basically not to talk onstage anymore. And this led into his point about successful artists today being overly safe and boring (the robots vs. the jerk in the basement line). They talked a little bit about Lana Del Rey and how that internet culture of snark tore her apart.

And his overall point was to lay the blame on fans without really talking about piracy. It was pretty interesting. He talked more about how the fans are creating this toxic culture that doesn't allow anything good to flourish. And he hinted at the piracy problem by saying that the fans have a "victim mentality" where they think "oh man you want me to pay $20, you're so greedy" etc.

He also talked about how musicians have to "create their own world" and how there needs to be a stronger visual element to music so that it's something more engaging and not something that you can just put in the background.

Sorry for the random disconnected recollections.
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