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-   -   Billy Corgan - No Money In Music Now (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-business/709208-billy-corgan-no-money-music-now.html)

chrisso 13th March 2012 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potslutz (Post 7663760)
blues people where homeless that's how they got the feeling to write music.

They weren't all homeless, and you don't need to be in pain and destitution to make good music. Plus, hurrah, society evolves. Incredible blues musicians are now celebrated and don't have to be homeless/penniless. Are you arguing that they should go back to the homeless state?

Quote:

now every musicians want to have a billion dollar house on the hills,and it is standard
Utter crap. Musicians want to be paid for doing a job, just like you, just like everyone who works. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you think being paid to make music is about a 'billion dollar house' you either have a negative agenda, or you are incredibly naive about the business.

chrisso 13th March 2012 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertshaw (Post 7663813)
Chrisso doesn't get it. He thinks everyone on his level is entitled to make a living at music.

The ironic thing is, most people 'on my level' understand only too well how hard it is to get paid in the music business. You think 30 years has been limos all the way? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
We risked everything, went without food and money from time to time, when others dropped out and got a day job when the going got tough.
Yes, we are uber aware how hard it is to get anywhere in the music business.

chrisso 13th March 2012 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP11 (Post 7663847)
Maybe Billy Corgan should go play Vegas or small clubs or something like that like musicians have always had to do...I can't imagine who would want to see or hear him, but....

The good news, another thread exactly like all the others...:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

FWIW, I'm not a Corgan fan and don't agree with much of what he says in the video.
But yes, this thread is like many others....
Someone who has extensive experience in the music business states their opinion, and a bunch of anonymous Gearslutz with virtually no experience and no career to match remind us what a jerk said artist is, and how talentless they are. Seriously, you should read yourselves.
Sour grapes make bitter whine.
khrthjdrtkhrthjdrtkhrthjdrtkhrthjdrt

JP11 13th March 2012 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisso (Post 7663915)
FWIW, I'm not a Corgan fan and don't agree with much of what he says in the video.
But yes, this thread is like many others....
Someone who has extensive experience in the music business states their opinion, and a bunch of anonymous Gearslutz with virtually no experience and no career to match remind us what a jerk said artist is, and how talentless they are. Seriously, you should read yourselves.
Sour grapes make bitter whine.
khrthjdrtkhrthjdrtkhrthjdrtkhrthjdrt

I like how you use my post to post the same tired ****...

If you are so F*cking Superior what the f*ck are you doing here day and night?????????

And for f*cks sake, lighten up dude...this is obviously mostly a light-hearted thread...I didn't even listen to the video which is hardly important in the scheme of things and it's just another excuse to post that f*cking graph and say the same bull****...if it weren't for robertshaw, this thread would be a complete waste of time, as are most of these threads, because at least he's funny...

get over yourself!

:facepalm:khrthjdrt:facepalm:

robertshaw 13th March 2012 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisso (Post 7663908)
The ironic thing is, most people 'on my level' understand only too well how hard it is to get paid in the music business. You think 30 years has been limos all the way? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
We risked everything, went without food and money from time to time, when others dropped out and got a day job when the going got tough.
Yes, we are uber aware how hard it is to get anywhere in the music business.

It's a long way to the top.
But I just don't think everything corgan says is true
you can make lots of money doing shows.

chrisso 13th March 2012 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP11 (Post 7663965)
If you are so F*cking Superior what the f*ck are you doing here day and night?????????

Who said I was? I didn't.

Quote:

I didn't even listen to the video
So you are posting aggressively and negatively but you don't even know what we're discussing. Nice.

Quote:

get over yourself!
:facepalm:khrthjdrt:facepalm:
As in this and one or two other debates on the forum, people are actually reading your posts, responding to them and by and large posting thought through comments based on their own actual experience.
Increasingly all you seem to be interested in is pulling those people down a peg or two....... as well as abusing the available palette of smiley's.

chrisso 13th March 2012 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertshaw (Post 7663966)
But I just don't think everything corgan says is true

Neither do I. I disagree with most of what he said.
He's a right to say what he wants, and his vast experience at all levels gives him even more right, whether you and others think he can't sing and his band sucked or not.

sventvkg 13th March 2012 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisso (Post 7663908)
The ironic thing is, most people 'on my level' understand only too well how hard it is to get paid in the music business. You think 30 years has been limos all the way? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
We risked everything, went without food and money from time to time, when others dropped out and got a day job when the going got tough.
Yes, we are uber aware how hard it is to get anywhere in the music business.

DAMN Chris...True Words Brother..True Words..Been there...kfhkh

sventvkg 13th March 2012 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisso (Post 7663915)
FWIW, I'm not a Corgan fan and don't agree with much of what he says in the video.
But yes, this thread is like many others....
Someone who has extensive experience in the music business states their opinion, and a bunch of anonymous Gearslutz with virtually no experience and no career to match remind us what a jerk said artist is, and how talentless they are. Seriously, you should read yourselves.
Sour grapes make bitter whine.
khrthjdrtkhrthjdrtkhrthjdrtkhrthjdrt

kfhkh

Dean Roddey 13th March 2012 09:40 AM

I hate to get huffy here, but Billy Corgan and the Pumpkins put out music orders of magnitude better than any of you juvenilles will who are smacking him down. He is so far beyond you on the scale of accomplishment that you aren't even visible. So it's pretty funny to hear people putting him down, people whose vision is basically working at Costco while recording songs in your bedroom, that maybe 100 people will ever listen to, if you are lucky.

The Pumpkins sold what, 6 million copies of an album that would have sold for probably $24 or some such back at that time when B&M music stores still ruled. Back when people actually voted with their dollars, and people voted for them big time.

JP11 13th March 2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisso (Post 7664066)
Who said I was? I didn't.

You act that way at every chance you get....


Quote:

So you are posting aggressively and negatively but you don't even know what we're discussing. Nice.
I made an obvious joke...as if Billy Corgan would read anything here or give a ****...

you on the other hand, acted "negatively and aggressively" to every single person here....

Quote:

As in this and one or two other debates on the forum, people are actually reading your posts, responding to them and by and large posting thought through comments based on their own actual experience.
Increasingly all you seem to be interested in is pulling those people down a peg or two
That's right!! I already explained why, didn't I...:facepalm:


Quote:

....... as well as abusing the available palette of smiley's.
Right again...but no happy smileys for you and your pal!!
Only :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Mike Caffrey 13th March 2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertshaw (Post 7663602)
there is still plenty of money in touring and merchandise. When was the last time Kiss sold a record? 1977?
they have more money than anyone but the bealtes

Plenty of bands have gone out on the "retirement" tour without recording a new record and cashed in.
Sure if you don't have a following you can't make money

but since when does any one have the right to make money in the music business anyway? it's not a given.
just shut up and be happy anyone even listens to your music, money is just an added bonus
be thankful you can still play and you ca nrecord. If you don't make any money too bad. Join the club
and shut your mouth

Your premise is correct, but Kiss has sold plenty of records since 1977.

Mike Caffrey 13th March 2012 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rack gear (Post 7663563)
that is completely, totally, and factually not true. the pie is less than half the size it was.

Music's lost decade: Sales cut in half in 2000s - Feb. 2, 2010

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2010/..._music.top.gif



Are they supporting themselves with a professional career with those smaller slices? I doubt it. Billy didn't have a day job...

You're both right and the reason is because you are talking about two different things. The "record business" is a piece of the "music business".

There is more money in the "music business" than ever before. The "record business" is in a coma with an unknown prognosis.


The thing is, there have been professional musicians for thousands of years without selling recordings of their music. It may end up that the record business is an 80-100 year aberration.

Maybe artist development, that went from the majors to the indies, will go from the indies to the Summer tours, like Warped and Bamboozle etc, and new ones that don't yet exist.

sventvkg 13th March 2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean roddey (Post 7664091)
i hate to get huffy here, but billy corgan and the pumpkins put out music orders of magnitude better than any of you juvenilles will who are smacking him down. He is so far beyond you on the scale of accomplishment that you aren't even visible. So it's pretty funny to hear people putting him down, people whose vision is basically working at costco while recording songs in your bedroom, that maybe 100 people will ever listen to, if you are lucky.

The pumpkins sold what, 6 million copies of an album that would have sold for probably $24 or some such back at that time when b&m music stores still ruled. Back when people actually voted with their dollars, and people voted for them big time.

ouch!! Smackdown!!!

chrisso 13th March 2012 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP11 (Post 7664098)
You act that way at every chance you get....

The mistake you make is to see an attitude of 'superiority' in the expression of real life experience.
My point was after 30 years of ups and downs I'm well aware how hard it is to survive in the music industry. Ironic then that Robert Shaw thought I 'didn't get it'. He wouldn't know anyway, because he doesn't know me or very much at all about me.
That isn't superiority, that's real experiences vs imagined experiences.

fritzschreiner 13th March 2012 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisso (Post 7663715)
Not many actually just follow the money, but money is necessary to eat, pay for electricity, buy and maintain gear, travel to gigs. just the basics like that.

And until you ask "why" it's like that, you get to stay on the hampsters wheel.

Quick answer: It's because money has been manipulated into something you can't do without, from it's origin as a simpler means of exchange. On purpose, I might add.

GearOnTheGo 13th March 2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritzschreiner (Post 7664507)
And until you ask "why" it's like that, you get to stay on the hampsters wheel.

Quick answer: It's because money has been manipulated into something you can't do without, from it's origin as a simpler means of exchange. On purpose, I might add.

More Libertarian Political Religious Nonsense that does not belong here, please take your personal preaching somewhere else.

GearOnTheGo 13th March 2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey (Post 7664122)
You're both right and the reason is because you are talking about two different things. The "record business" is a piece of the "music business".

There is more money in the "music business" than ever before. The "record business" is in a coma with an unknown prognosis.


The thing is, there have been professional musicians for thousands of years without selling recordings of their music. It may end up that the record business is an 80-100 year aberration.

Maybe artist development, that went from the majors to the indies, will go from the indies to the Summer tours, like Warped and Bamboozle etc, and new ones that don't yet exist.

There is not. Period. If so prove it. Recorded Music Sales are down and nothing else is really compensating for it.

fritzschreiner 13th March 2012 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisso (Post 7664068)
Neither do I. I disagree with most of what he said.
He's a right to say what he wants, and his vast experience at all levels gives him even more right, whether you and others think he can't sing and his band sucked or not.

No one has any more right to an opinion than anyone else. And as to experience, it can be a double edged sword. If an idiot is chugging along year after year, and then joins a forum to share that experience, it's going to be rightly ignored by those with an eyes-brains connection.

Someone gnawing away at a problem from inside of the problem, sees only the immediate substance and mechanics of the problem itself.

Someone with no experience walks up and from outside the problem, spots what's wrong and offers a solution.

To the burping cat calls of the experienced. "Who are you?" Who do you know?" "What have you done?" "Let's see your badge before we turn your mic on."

Everyone has experience. Life is an experience. It depends on what a person decides to do. And for those who decide to "do" something with a known record of precious little chance of succeeding, you have to wonder as to the value of their hard won experience, and whether it'll be of any more value to others not dense enough to be lured into a roulette wheel of a business.

GearOnTheGo 13th March 2012 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camera (Post 7663793)
I guess you're living in a different (older) world. Using 1999 as a reference does not support your claim.

My world of independent artists has only gotten better. But those numbers and graphs are hard to come by. Guess we'll know where to deliver flowers to.

Facts are Facts and your world is only better if you can actually make a living making music. It's ok to be a hobbyist but don't pretend they have professional careers.

Bullseye 13th March 2012 02:11 PM

But this is a good thing. It will weed out those that are in it for the wrong reasons. Its a positive development in the long run.

fritzschreiner 13th March 2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo (Post 7664560)
More Libertarian Political Religious Nonsense that does not belong here, please take your personal preaching somewhere else.

Oh. I didn't realize you're the new owner of Gearslutz. Your highnesses wish is....ignored. gooof

GearOnTheGo 13th March 2012 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritzschreiner (Post 7664578)
No one has any more right to an opinion than anyone else. And as to experience, it can be a double edged sword. If an idiot is chugging along year after year, and then joins a forum to share that experience, it's going to be rightly ignored by those with an eyes-brains connection.

Someone gnawing away at a problem from inside of the problem, sees only the immediate substance and mechanics of the problem itself.

Someone with no experience walks up and from outside the problem, spots what's wrong and offers a solution.

To the burping cat calls of the experienced. "Who are you?" Who do you know?" "What have you done?" "Let's see your badge before we turn your mic on."

Everyone has experience. Life is an experience. It depends on what a person decides to do. And for those who decide to "do" something with a known record of precious little chance of succeeding, you have to wonder as to the value of their hard won experience, and whether it'll be of any more value to others not dense enough to be lured into a roulette wheel of a business.

And how much experience do you have in the professional record industry? We're you signed? Did you run a label? Tour professionally?

GearOnTheGo 13th March 2012 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritzschreiner (Post 7664593)
Oh. I didn't realize you're the new owner of Gearslutz. Your highnesses wish is....ignored. gooof

Forum rules not mine. Take your own risks.

fritzschreiner 13th March 2012 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo (Post 7664605)
Forum rules not mine. Take your own risks.

Oops. my mistake then.

So in reality, Gearslutz has hired you on as a bouncer/cop? What does that pay? benefits? free gear? Where do you get an application?

(You couldn't just be self appointed, could you?)

fritzschreiner 13th March 2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo (Post 7664602)
And how much experience do you have in the professional record industry? We're you signed? Did you run a label? Tour professionally?

I have lots of experience. In the areas I chose to work/play in. And I don't hold myself to anyone elses standards.

I could tell you how you could try to do that if you want. It would be a very "label worthy" post indeed.

GearOnTheGo 13th March 2012 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camera (Post 7663811)
And since pictures seem to help in this world, take a look at some of these...

itunes sales charts - Google Search

Then take a look at singles sales. It's like the beginning of the music business all over...

What is "the industry" btw? Put a finger on that pulse and we'll see what Billy is bitching about.

Good Greif. Really?

Individual song sales did not exist until 2003. Anything looks like a net positive when the baseline is zero.

But even including individual song sales into the whole, over all music sales are still down by over 60%.

What you fail to see is that there are less opportunities for professional careers, not more. If you never plan on supporting yourself through music of course you dont care if there's money in it, or not. That makes you a hobbyist by choice or circumstance.

You can believe a lie if you like, but you wont have a professional career doing it.

I am always amazed at how offended hobbyists are of the truth.

GearOnTheGo 13th March 2012 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritzschreiner (Post 7664637)
I have lots of experience. In the areas I chose to work/play in. And I don't hold myself to anyone elses standards.

I could tell you how you could try to do that if you want. It would be a very "label worthy" post indeed.

No Professional Experience, that's what I thought. Always funny to see those who couldn't and can't tell those who can and do, how it should be done.

GearOnTheGo 13th March 2012 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritzschreiner (Post 7664627)
Oops. my mistake then.

So in reality, Gearslutz has hired you on as a bouncer/cop? What does that pay? benefits? free gear? Where do you get an application?

(You couldn't just be self appointed, could you?)

Read the FAQ, and anyone can report you to the mods for breaking the forum rules, jus sayin... There's a "report" button...

joelpatterson 13th March 2012 02:49 PM

"Mommy!..."