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did I violate copyright?!? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 21st September 2011
  #61
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Right.. so "there's people being murdered, let's not do anything else but focus on that" meanwhile musicians/creatives are being raped...
Old 21st September 2011
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
Right.. so "there's people being murdered, let's not do anything else but focus on that" meanwhile musicians/creatives are being raped...
Old 21st September 2011
  #63
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3rd Degree's Avatar
 

At the end of the day, it could be considered fair use. But, that doesn't mean that soundcloud won't flag it. If you are doing well on there, someone else may flag your material just in hopes to take you down a notch, thinking they will gain your fans.

I put up work with non cleared samples a lot. I am not selling them and clearing the sample really is not a possibility as I am putting up instrumentals, not songs. I would have to reclear the sample when I made the song, it's not a finished work, I am not profiting, etc. I have never had my work flagged by any copyright owners, nor by the site I host it on. I have only had my work flagged by other individuals who had some motive to try to take my work down. I even had a song flagged that was me sampling my self, there were no clearance issues but the individual did not know that. I have had original songs flagged. It just sad in my experience, in my case it's always been done in maliciously.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
Right.. so "there's people being murdered, let's not do anything else but focus on that" meanwhile musicians/creatives are being raped...
sounds good to me
attack the REAL problems
and let the little ones go for now

so your music got "stolen"
not really on my radar when there are MUCH BIGGER PROBLEMS that need to be fixed

civilisation is on the verge of collapse
at which point there wont be no stinkin music except what you can make banging a stick on a rock
Old 22nd September 2011
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
sounds good to me
attack the REAL problems
and let the little ones go for now

so your music got "stolen"
not really on my radar when there are MUCH BIGGER PROBLEMS that need to be fixed

civilisation is on the verge of collapse
at which point there wont be no stinkin music except what you can make banging a stick on a rock
in excess of 50% losses over a decade totaling over 8.3 Billion Dollars seems like a real problem to me!

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/02/news/companies/napster_music_industry/

Old 22nd September 2011
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
in excess of 50% losses over a decade totaling over 8.3 Billion Dollars seems like a real problem to me!

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/02/news/companies/napster_music_industry/


there are no losses. ZERO LOSSES.

just normal supply and demand at work

people have more ways to spend their money
like food and petrol

music today sux
bad product means lower sales
more competition also means lower prices so lower revenue

you should worry about inflation and debt
we will soon have hyperinflation and worldwide depression
Old 22nd September 2011
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
there are no losses. ZERO LOSSES.

just normal supply and demand at work
right.. the supply of illegally free, consequence free product...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
people have more ways to spend their money
like food and petrol
like they did for the three decades prior to online piracy and sales rose steadily during those three decades, sorry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
music today sux
bad product means lower sales
right, like the bay city rollers and lief garret were stunning examples of exceptional music... sorry dude, the music sux argument just not hold water, people are consuming more music today than they EVER have, they're just not paying for it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
more competition also means lower prices so lower revenue
how so? competition from who? these guys? give me a break... when this stuff starts filling ipods let me know
SoundClick - Free MP3 music download and much, much more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
you should worry about inflation and debt
we will soon have hyperinflation and worldwide depression
you should worry about a lot of things, but the economy has had no effect on record sales for the three decades prior to online piracy...

every other contributory factor existed prior to piracy, including but not limited competition from rival consumer products, the economy, etc. And taking that all into account sales climbed steadily for three decades until the onset of massive online digital piracy...




the years correspond to excel row numbers, the graph represents 36 years of data 1973 - 2008.

Excel graphed the years as follows:

1973 is plot point "1"

1979 is plot point "7"

2008 is plot point "36"



so it looks like the "economy" really isn't that big of a factor after all, looking at 36 years of data...

Add to that each decade also saw it's own added consumer competition... The 70s saw the initial release of vcrs and video cassettes as well as video game consoles and cartridges, the 80s say home video boom as vhs matured, cable tv boomed, new types of youth sports took hold, the 90s saw the introduction of dvds, home computers became household items, people started paying for internet service, and cell phones began to be common place...

And yet through each one of those decades (without rampant online piracy) sales grew steadily until p2p and broadband reach ubiquity at the turn of the century...

Then, the sales plummet.

You can choose to ignore this like you can choose to ignore a train crossing or a stop sign, but it's foolish and irrational to do so.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #68
Gear Head
 
Multiplier's Avatar
 

I know the thread should have probably died by now, but it should be noted that copyright infringement is a totally different issue to piracy.

Piracy costs the music industry real money. Copyright violation in the form regularly flagged on SoundCloud does not.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
right.. the supply of illegally free, consequence free product...



like they did for the three decades prior to online piracy and sales rose steadily during those three decades, sorry...



right, like the bay city rollers and lief garret were stunning examples of exceptional music... sorry dude, the music sux argument just not hold water, people are consuming more music today than they EVER have, they're just not paying for it...



how so? competition from who? these guys? give me a break... when this stuff starts filling ipods let me know
SoundClick - Free MP3 music download and much, much more.



you should worry about a lot of things, but the economy has had no effect on record sales for the three decades prior to online piracy...

every other contributory factor existed prior to piracy, including but not limited competition from rival consumer products, the economy, etc. And taking that all into account sales climbed steadily for three decades until the onset of massive online digital piracy...




the years correspond to excel row numbers, the graph represents 36 years of data 1973 - 2008.

Excel graphed the years as follows:

1973 is plot point "1"

1979 is plot point "7"

2008 is plot point "36"



so it looks like the "economy" really isn't that big of a factor after all, looking at 36 years of data...

Add to that each decade also saw it's own added consumer competition... The 70s saw the initial release of vcrs and video cassettes as well as video game consoles and cartridges, the 80s say home video boom as vhs matured, cable tv boomed, new types of youth sports took hold, the 90s saw the introduction of dvds, home computers became household items, people started paying for internet service, and cell phones began to be common place...

And yet through each one of those decades (without rampant online piracy) sales grew steadily until p2p and broadband reach ubiquity at the turn of the century...

Then, the sales plummet.

You can choose to ignore this like you can choose to ignore a train crossing or a stop sign, but it's foolish and irrational to do so.
spare me
there is no economic impact due to piracy
total bullbleep put out by groups that want to control you and put taxes on your gear too

the *little* piracy is shut down quickly and prosecuted
collectors who copy worthless music would never buy it
so no loss there
and it might even help with advertising so others will buy

spare me the nonsense logic
and made up statistics
Old 23rd September 2011
  #70
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
spare me
there is no economic impact due to piracy
total bullbleep put out by groups that want to control you and put taxes on your gear too

the *little* piracy is shut down quickly and prosecuted
collectors who copy worthless music would never buy it
so no loss there
and it might even help with advertising so others will buy

spare me the nonsense logic
and made up statistics

Are you friggin serious? You can't be.. this is a joke post right?
Tell me you're joking...
Old 23rd September 2011
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
spare me
there is no economic impact due to piracy
total bullbleep put out by groups that want to control you and put taxes on your gear too
how so? what groups that want to control us and put taxes on our gear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
the *little* piracy is shut down quickly and prosecuted
guess you've never heard of BT or TBP... huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
collectors who copy worthless music would never buy it
so no loss there
collectors of what worthless music?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
and it might even help with advertising so others will buy
really, how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
spare me the nonsense logic
back at ya

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
and made up statistics
not good at math, huh...

oh well... how I wish you weren't a troll...
Old 23rd September 2011
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiplier View Post
I know the thread should have probably died by now, but it should be noted that copyright infringement is a totally different issue to piracy.

Piracy costs the music industry real money. Copyright violation in the form regularly flagged on SoundCloud does not.
actually both do...
Old 23rd September 2011
  #73
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiplier View Post
but you can't copyright a chord progression or a melody. well actually you might be able to, but if you can, thats legal BS, thats like when the early tech companies tried to copyright stuff like "hyperlinking". it's stupid.
Wow. Where do we even start with this. The essence of a copyrightable song is the melody and the lyrics. That melodic pattern IS the song. It's the thing people copyright. What else could a song possibly be? I admit that the rules governing fair use are too strict. In a way, I side with you because a lot of interesting new music is prevented by not allowing creative reconstruction with samples. But under current law, you're just completely wrong. And people should NOT be able to snag complete melodies and call them their own. That's just completely out to lunch.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #74
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

yeah, there does seem to be badly misinformed people spouting "facts" about stuff they really have Zero clue as to how things work. I'd say the majority of the pro-piracy apologists are in this camp or circling the wagon.

Look, if you're in the biz, or pretending your in the biz, or dreaming about being in the biz (or just somehow wandered into this forum...) you need to learn about copyright, the current atmosphere of massive unabated piracy, where revenue comes from (and no -that doesn not include some crap you heard third-hand from someone who knows someone who posted in the comment section of a blog somewhere...), what your rights actually are, and what you can do to further/start your career/education.
If you're lazy and don't want to learn these things.. sorry, go put in your application to McDonalds. and go bug some other group of people while you're at it!
Old 23rd September 2011
  #75
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Empty Planet's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
....Look, if you're in the biz, or pretending your in the biz, or dreaming about being in the biz (or just somehow wandered into this forum...) you need to learn about copyright....If you're lazy and don't want to learn these things.. sorry, go put in your application to McDonalds.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
...The essence of a copyrightable song is the melody and the lyrics. That melodic pattern IS the song. It's the thing people copyright. What else could a song possibly be?....
Well, actually, this brings up an interesting side issue. The "melodic patterns" are indeed the European idea of a song, and most of our copyright system and our ideas about what is copyrightable originates from those who were raised in the European model of melody, harmony, etc., and is therefore highly slanted to that perception of what constitutes music.

The following idea is essentially from the small and very amusing book The Manual (How to Have a Number One the Easy Way) -- you know, a lot of people seem to think that groove and feel, and those cool, funky riffs or basslines have at least as much, and sometimes more, to do with the success of many recordings as any melody or harmony.

And yet isn't it interesting that the copyright law developed in such a way as to sidestep these contributions, and thus the artists who created them, and isn't it interesting to contemplate all the financial implications which stem from that? Anyone ever use the "Amen" break? And what kind of slice of the copyright pie did The Funk Brothers get for their enormous contribution to those Motown hits? How important to the song I'm working on today are the rhythms, basslines, and riffs that I've created? And it's just melody that is the song???



The copyright system itself overlooks gigantic components of what makes modern tunes successful. I consider the law a work in progress. When I'm feeling charitable.

That doesn't mean I shouldn't learn it, if music is how I make my living. I may think it sucks that I can't breathe underwater or walk on clouds, but the facts will remain the facts whether I attempt to insulate myself in ignorance or not, and the results of my ignoring the facts will be just as messy.


Cheers.



Old 23rd September 2011
  #76
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
a lot of interesting new music is prevented by not allowing creative reconstruction with samples.
I personally find derivative works to be inherently less interesting than original work, but in any case, using someone else's work as the basis for your own work is not "prevented"

people do it all the time

what is "prevented" is doing it without permission and without paying. You clear your samples.

boo hoo is all I can say to those who feel their 'creativity' is stifled because they are too lazy to do the legwork. First they are too lazy/untalented/unskilled to create the samples themselves, and then they are too lazy to acknowledge that and negotiate their use? What nerve.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #77
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I personally find derivative works to be inherently less interesting than original work, but in any case, using someone else's work as the basis for your own work is not "prevented"

people do it all the time

what is "prevented" is doing it without permission and without paying. You clear your samples.

boo hoo is all I can say to those who feel their 'creativity' is stifled because they are too lazy to do the legwork. First they are too lazy/untalented/unskilled to create the samples themselves, and then they are too lazy to acknowledge that and negotiate their use? What nerve.
As a creator of original works who depends on those works to eat, pay insurance, and have a place to sleep........all I can say is....
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