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Here's a thought... Studio Headphones
Old 31st December 2010
  #31
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by japancakes View Post
Bands that are worth half a crap. Bands that have label support because they're worth it. Not the weekend warriors, and not some kids with a laptop. Does this mean downsizing acts. Hell yeah it does. Less jobs in the music industry, but people will get paid. In the 40s and 50s there were a less acts out there, but players were making $500.00 a night PER PERSON. That's a few thousand by today's standard.
Enthusiasm and ideas are to be commended. Gross naivety is not. You have very little idea about how the nuts and bolts of this industry works. It might be wise for you to do more research before you start posting these completely naive proclamations.

I'm with Chris about this mystery figure of $500 per night you've dragged out of "Your Book". Balderdash. Label Support? It's nice to dream. The number of Weekend Warriors has greatly increased in this decade because much of the talent, infrastructure and money has left or is leaving. As a piracy apologist, you should consider this. I don't know what they're teaching you all in Berklee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by japancakes View Post
Why don't labels buy up venues
A little company called Live Nation has already bought up most of the smaller regional venues in the USA, saving the record companies the trouble, not that they were exactly rushing into the venue business anyway. Major Record Companies are a failed business model in this age, a cross between an underperforming Bank and a Mafia Casino. Times are tough, Returns are slim and most of these companies need to re-evaluate their staff, methods and business models. Independant Labels are flourishing more and more in this climate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japancakes View Post
Decrease ticket prices or maybe make shows free, and use the shows as a commercial
That is what is known as a "Loss Leader" or a "Cross-Promotional Performance". As if. Would you work for free? I suppose you think these problems should all be fixed in time for you to waltz into a job when you finish College? I suppose you think most people who post in these forums know nothing? Perhaps you should talk to your buddies about their downloading habits?
Old 31st December 2010
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Music used to be about educating yourself along the lines of the artist you were into - the whole POINT of buying a new record was to experience something new, not try it out for a week and then decide if you want it. One of the very great things about being a music consumer is finding the new and exciting. The risk is finding the dross - but that's the whole point!

This brings me on to a second point - people complain about "filler". Albums of artists don't contain filler - the contain tracks that you don't like.


^^^^So true^^^^^

When I was at music school I followed a musical trail.
I liked Herbie Hancock, so I would buy any album that Hancock guested on, or produced. I did the same with other artists.
An interest in Todd Rundgren lead me to The Tubes, still some of my favourite albums.
One of the phenomena I definitely noticed was when buying an album, two or three tracks would immediately appeal to me, others less so. I would play those tracks over and over again for the first few weeks owning the album. Then I'd get a bit bored with them and start exploring the other songs.
Sometimes those songs would never grow on me and remain tracks I disliked, but quite often I'd find they were just harder songs to absorb. They grew on me and actually became more cherished by me than the songs I initially enjoyed in the first few days of owning the album.
Music sales have gone the way of many things in the noughties, instant gratification is everything.
Old 31st December 2010
  #33
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_subsonic View Post
As a piracy apologist, you
Perhaps you should talk to your buddies about their downloading habits?
Hold on there! You're putting words in my mouth, and obviously haven't read my posts in-depth. I despise piracy, and I already told someone these were not my friends. We're on the some team here, and I hope you'll look at this thread as a discussion, and not a place for you to place your judgments. Simmer down or get out of my thread.
Old 1st January 2011
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
I hear Motorhead have a new album out. I've heard a single on the radio. Where do I get to listen to the whole album so I can decide whether I like it (and buy it if I do)? I'd even pay (a small amount) for the chance to listen to it right the way through. I'm not prepared to buy it outright "sight unheard" at the prices in this country.
as soon as it's released, you should be able to hear ninety seconds per song on itunes at the very least. then you can choose to buy it, or not.
Old 1st January 2011
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by japancakes View Post
Hold on there! You're putting words in my mouth, and obviously haven't read my posts in-depth. I despise piracy, and I already told someone these were not my friends. We're on the some team here, and I hope you'll look at this thread as a discussion, and not a place for you to place your judgments. Simmer down or get out of my thread.
Thank-you. I'll just see myself out.
Old 4th January 2011
  #36
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_subsonic View Post
Thank-you. I'll just see myself out.
Mind the door, the spring is rather fierce...

"Japancakes" has a valid point. Being less familiar with the music industry than you are doesn't make him a piracy apologist. Someone like him may one day prove to be the saviour of the industry. Because he doesn't know that something won't work, he may go ahead and try it anyway and find it (or a variation of it) does work. History is full of breakthroughs that happened because someone refused to accept the "common wisdom".
Old 4th January 2011
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
"Japancakes" has a valid point. Being less familiar with the music industry than you are doesn't make him a piracy apologist.
Truethumbsup


Quote:
Someone like him may one day prove to be the saviour of the industry. Because he doesn't know that something won't work, he may go ahead and try it anyway and find it (or a variation of it) does work.
Unfortunately his premise is based on musical misconceptions, lacks years of actual recording and touring experience and on the other side seems to fundamentally misunderstand the mentality of the pirate.
But yeah, I guess it could work. tutt
Old 4th January 2011
  #38
Lives for gear
 

Regarding Chrisso's and Narcoman's thoughts on expanding one's musical experiences by listening to music one normally wouldn't listen to:

I've been there and done that for over 40 years. I learnt early on that taste played a big part - an album with high quality songwriting and playing could leave me cold, even irritated, but be played until the grooves wore out by someone else. My social group used to swap records often - someone else's stupid buying mistake could become my treasured possession. For all of that time I yearned for a way to find out what an album sounded like without having to buy it first. I'd go into a record store, flick through the bins, ask to listen to one or two possibles, and like as not leave empty handed. I wished there were a way to listen to even a few seconds of every album that caught my eye - I'd have bought a lot more music.

Now, thanks to iTunes etc, I can do this, but only for the more popular albums. The vast majority of the albums I regretfully passed over earlier can only be heard via fan sites. Unsurprisingly, the ratio of "gem to dross" is the same as it ever was. Fortunately, the ones I do like are often still available "second hand".

One depressing trend is the phasing out of CDs in favour of downloads. At least when I buy a CD, if it turns out I don't llike it (or my tastes change and I don't listen to it any more) I can sell it and get up to 1/2 of my money back. This means an album download has to be priced at about half that of a CD to make it worthwhile. Before you rebut with how music is good value and I shouldn't be such a cheapskate, please realise that music has never been cheap in my country. Full price albums are still over US$25 here, and have been for many years. Inflation means that they are more affordable now than they used to be, but they're still not an impulse buy.

In summary, I do listen to all of an album, even if I bought it for one or two tracks. Sometimes I find the hooky single track does wear off after a while and I find myself preferring some of the other tracks (Nirvana, "Nevermind"). Very rarely, I find myself consistently playing an album right through every time (Filter, "Anthems For The Damned"). But buy an album un-heard on the off-chance that I might like it, when there are more reliable ways to happiness for the same money? No chance.
Old 4th January 2011
  #39
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
...
But yeah, I guess it could work. tutt
It's like bringing up children... They come up with all sorts of ideas, you can see why they won't work, but instead of slapping them down you just point out the things that would stop the ideas working. They realise there's stuff they don't know so they go find out. Eventually they either come to the realisation that something can't be done, or they work out a way to do it.
Old 4th January 2011
  #40
Except we are talking about a forum populated by musicians, and studio/audio interested people.
Isn't it just quicker to cut to the chase and talk about absolute realities.
I mean you are another one who's never toured right?

I'm 50, I've been touring since I was 18, from esoteric fusion bands, to uber cool indie bands, to mega popular stadium rockers. For 32 years I've witnessed the exact same phenomenon on every single tour. Play the new, un-recorded song and people take it as a cue to go to the bathroom, or back to the bar. At the end of the song you get polite applause from the real die hard fans.
Play your hits, and people are standing on their seats screaming blue murder and you get a ten minute standing ovation between each song.
You can talk all you like about innocent children, but the basic realities of the job aren't even in the same ballpark.
Old 5th January 2011
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Except we are talking about a forum populated by musicians, and studio/audio interested people.
Isn't it just quicker to cut to the chase and talk about absolute realities.
In other words, just talk about the stuff that "everyone knows" is true? Like "the Earth is flat"? I thought that was what the Moan Zone was for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I mean you are another one who's never toured right?
True enough. I did a couple of NZ tours doing FOH for a band of friends. We all still had "day jobs".

Regarding your statements about tours being a bad place to break new songs, I don't disagree. I think I have already posted my opinion to that effect. I fail to see the relevance here. Unless it relates to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You can talk all you like about innocent children, but the basic realities of the job aren't even in the same ballpark.
I disagree. The world needs people who dream, who question, who try to transcend limitations. There would be no innovation or progress without them. They need guidance, not repression.

My point was:
People come into a forum / thread and say, "why don't you do this?"
A common response is to say, "I've been in the business for many years, I know what works and what doesn't, and you're a numpty who doesn't have a freakin' clue." It's perfectly OK to think that. But it's not OK to actively discourage someone who, however misguided, is thinking about the problem. They are worth engaging with. Their minds are open enough to have come here in the first place. You'll have better luck persuading them to your point of view than someone who's not interested in listening. Which is what they'll become if you abuse them.
Old 5th January 2011
  #42
I'm sorry Don, but 1) you are exaggerating and putting words into my mouth, and 2) I disagree that sensible comments regarding innovation are dismissed, However you (like a few others) simply refuse to believe that when you've been around the block not twice, but many, many times, some ideas are just silly and not helpful.

I mean you can quite honestly be open to anything.
Why don't we fly Coldplay into space and make their next album in the International Space Station.

Well for starters..... a few years ago before piracy really got hold, new artists were signed more regularly. You saw less mainstream artists touring regularly.
In the last couple of years I'm seeing a local explosion in tribute acts "The Music Of The Rolling Stones" - "The White Album - Live".
This Australian Summer season by far the biggest tours are all long established stadium acts: Sting, U2, Metallica, Crowded House, Simply Red, Roxy Music. The top 50 grossing international tours from 2010 are almost all huge, established acts from 10.20. 40 years ago.....
This is driven by money, by filling concert halls and stadiums.

And yet the answer to piracy is to play new music people haven't heard before?
That's just so counter intuitive it isn't true.
Old 5th January 2011
  #43
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I'm sorry Don, but 1) you are exaggerating and putting words into my mouth, and 2) I disagree that sensible comments regarding innovation are dismissed, However you (like a few others) simply refuse to believe that when you've been around the block not twice, but many, many times, some ideas are just silly and not helpful.
1) I say it as I perceive it. I'll accept that my comprehension skills are the problem.

2) I agree with the conclusion (some ideas are silly and not helpful), but not with the methods and language often used to deliver it, which was what I was complaining about. It's easy to get grumpy on the days when ignorance seems infinite and common sense isn't, when yet another new poster weighs in with harebrained schemes and no idea of reality. The point is that in most cases (trolls excepted) they believe what they are saying. Bitch-slapping them isn't going to change their beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I mean you can quite honestly be open to anything.
Why don't we fly Coldplay into space and make their next album in the International Space Station.
For starters, the Shuttles have been retired, so it's going to be pretty hard to get them and their gear up there. And will the novelty value sell enough extra units to cover the cost? Assuming it sells about as well as their previous album, how much would they have to charge per copy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
In the last couple of years I'm seeing a local explosion in tribute acts "The Music Of The Rolling Stones" - "The White Album - Live".
They've always been there. "A Whole Lotta Led" is here at the moment. And a friend of mine is in Wazzo Clash - ex Wazzo Ghoti - who we make a point of going to see. (As well as the support angle, they deliver a good night's entertainment.) I've just discovered Yellow Matter Custard, "One Night In New York City", which I'm about to order from Radiant Records.
(I get the point, familiarity sells.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
And yet the answer to piracy is to play new music people haven't heard before?
That's just so counter intuitive it isn't true.
Er... hello? Didn't you read my earlier posted response to this? Feel free to vent if it helps, but I think you ought to save it for the newbies.
Old 5th January 2011
  #44
I read you complaining that perceived wisdom was worthless, similar to accepting the earth was flat because it was the wisdom of the time.
The trouble with that is that some people on this forum are imparting actual wisdom. They've been all over the high seas and seen the earth is absolutely not flat if you like. But when you and others are informed of this, we're told we're too close to the inside, we're not seeing the big picture. Not open to new ideas.
You, and a few others just wont accept the word of people who've been there, done it and got the t-shirt, that's just what it boils down to.

Edit:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...xperience.html
Old 9th January 2011
  #45
Lives for gear
 

Well, previewing music makes sense, it makes an awful lot of sense. Amazon knows that, so they offer a look inside the book feature, I love that and I'm buying more books because of it.

My point is that why should I buy something I don't know the value of?

But consuming a whole tune in full quality without buying it, that to me makes absolutely no sense at all. The best digital service is the one that offers high definition full plays with as high quality previews...
Old 9th January 2011
  #46
I agree.
We're currently being let down by most of the big players in online music delivery.
Old 9th January 2011
  #47
Lives for gear
 
Quint's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by japancakes View Post
Which brings me to another point. Why don't labels buy up venues, decrease ticket prices or maybe make shows free, and use the shows as a commercial. People are bombarded with free advertisements all the time, and guess what!? They buy it!
That's the last thing I would want. We've already seen what Clear Channel and their ilk have done towards promoting the homogenization of radio.
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