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Downward Spiral Desperation @ Amazon (For Neenja!) Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 1st January 2011
  #31
One) That's a rather pessimistic view.
Two) No musician ever got anything without kicking and screaming and generally making a nuisance of themselves.

The it'll be alright on the night approach has never worked for musicians in the past, and wont work going forward.
Old 1st January 2011
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by sventvkg View Post
I am a professional Musician and have made my living at it for 20 years. I'm just being realistic. I think that stuff will end up getting worked out. We pro's are in no position nor do we ultimately have the ability to stop the progression of what I believe will become the paradigm. Mobile and Spotify WILL come to the US. I believe they will work out the compensation. It will have to come to a compromise. I don't see any other way other than the further degradation and eradication of our industry.
Spotify will come to the USA when it looks like Itunes, and Itunes is getting closer to Spotofy everyday, now with 90 second song samples.
Old 1st January 2011
  #33
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lagavulin16's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
So essentially in this post you have no reasoned argument to put back to us, resorting instead to childish name calling (three blind mice).
In fairness, you didn't offer an argument either. You just said that as long as piracy exists, I won't know what effect it is having on the supply/demand equation. But I do. I know for a fact that most people can fully satiate their desire for external content and content stimulus with free, legal content. Even if we include that which is not free but paid for, there is a lot competing with music these days.

How many teenagers sit in a dark bedroom with their friends listening to an album from beginning to end, stolen or purchased?

Very few. How many are on facebook? Texting? Playing video games? Watching a cat fart and sneeze at the same time on youtube?

It really doesn't leave much time left to listen to music. It simply isn't a priority.

Quote:
If you think your new term for us hurts I feel sorry for you. Is it really time to go to the frat house or high school musical?
There is nothing so blind as someone who never produced anything worth pirating, telling someone who is regularly pirated how they should conduct their business.
My position hasn't moved one iota in fact. I've never uttered the word 'flat'. I've always said we don't know where we'd be, we'd be struggling more due to global recession and competing interests, but we can't have people stealing content at the rate they currently are. No business could and stay afloat.
So why do you think the newspaper industry has followed a virtually identical swan dive to the music industry in terms of depth and timeline, even while no one has accused piracy of being part of the problem for the newspaper industry?

Quote:
How do we know what the music scene would be like since 2005 without piracy? Please just tell me as Lagavulin is so confident, and you're confidently backing him.
My point is that there used to be 10 kinds of content and 8 (non-sleeping, non-working) hours in the day. There are now thousands of kinds of content all over the place for free. It's sad, but content is free, content is everywhere, and I am not referring to pirated content.
Old 1st January 2011
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
In fairness, you didn't offer an argument either. You just said that as long as piracy exists, I won't know what effect it is having on the supply/demand equation. But I do.
You don't and neither do I. Piracy is a massive phenomenon and it's simply ridiculous to claim you know what music sales would be like without it.



Quote:
It really doesn't leave much time left to listen to music. It simply isn't a priority.
But your making a big error in assuming all music is treated equally.
There's a very decent chance the amateur hour music, and the extreme niche music like 'classical romantic metal' will simply be ignored and the same mainstream popular music will be the fodder of the masses as it's always been. Why does more music equal less sales for the mainstream compared to the past? NO it just means more and more music that's lower down the food chain gets ignored, that's the MySpace music, the Beatport music, the Soundcloud music.


Quote:
So why do you think the newspaper industry has followed a virtually identical swan dive to the music industry in terms of depth and timeline, even while no one has accused piracy of being part of the problem for the newspaper industry?
Because unlike the music industry, ordinary people have become news gatherers and commentators. I would quite honestly be over the moon if web 2.0ers were making their own music and kicking the mainstream industry in the butt as a result. But no, they're just taking from the mainstream music industry.
Two similar end results (decline in newspapers and decline in music industry) with two completely different causes at work.


Quote:
My point is that there used to be 10 kinds of content and 8 (non-sleeping, non-working) hours in the day.
Like i said, as it ever was, people prioritize. the majority of people prefer mainstream music, so a decline in mainstream music sales is more likely to be because they can obtain it free, than they are distracted and overwhelmed by less mainstream, less professional product.
They (like me) just dial that out.
Old 1st January 2011
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
So why do you think the newspaper industry has followed a virtually identical swan dive to the music industry in terms of depth and timeline, even while no one has accused piracy of being part of the problem for the newspaper industry?
imagine if there was... but it's a straw man, red herring argument...

soundclick is to music, what blogs are to news and if that's what people want, fine. I've said repeatedly I'd be happy to be out of work due to soundclick, that's a real displacement, it's not illegal, and it's a fair market, driven by consumer demand.

SoundClick - Free MP3 music download and much, much more.

however, that's NOT the case with the music industry, and ipods are NOT filled with the content given away for free from soundclick versus that produced by professionals.

ipods are filled with pop hits and key catalog obtained illegally through piracy - these are completely different industries with completely different dynamics.

it's funny how people who don't work within an industry can attempt to claim so much insight about the workings of the that industry. it would be like me going onto journalist/newspaper forums telling them how to run their businesses, I really have no idea, I don't work in that industry, I don't have actual on the ground day to day experience in it, nor would I claim to have the solutions to dynamics and mechanics I don't understand.

unfortunately there seem to be a lot of armchair experts here who really, haven't done a lot and don't have a lot experience in the field being discussed.

it's so funny that there are so many here in these forums with so much insight, and yet they can't get hired within that industry... just is what it is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
My point is that there used to be 10 kinds of content and 8 (non-sleeping, non-working) hours in the day. There are now thousands of kinds of content all over the place for free. It's sad, but content is free, content is everywhere, and I am not referring to pirated content.
so why then is the volume of piracy so massive when there are so many legally free options - it would seem by your logic, that piracy would be near non-existent just because of the shear amount of content available without having to steal... but that, unfortunately just is not true.

hmmm... people take so much pride in stealing that they rank it's consumption into "most stolen" charts...
http://pirateindex.com/#music

http://icorbin.com/top-pirated-movies/2169
Quote:
The Pirate Index tracks movie popularity from multiple sources known for the pirating of content. As the database grows, it should be relatively easy to start predicting the trends of piracy for a given type of media. Then hopefully we can persuade movie studios to start leveraging Pirates to promote their movies, books and music.
uh yeah...
Old 5th January 2011
  #36
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BachEnvy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by petermichael View Post
nah, as i've said before, most are looking at this wrong.

the minimum value of a tune that you want to hear, whatsoever is .99

top tunes should be around 5.00

it's all coming, and sooner than you think.
Insanity..I would never pay that..for an MP3? Not even for JSB.
Old 5th January 2011
  #37
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Like i said, as it ever was, people prioritize. the majority of people prefer mainstream music, so a decline in mainstream music sales is more likely to be because they can obtain it free, than they are distracted and overwhelmed by less mainstream, less professional product.
Yes but this is valid only with music competing with music. But you have also to compete with other contents like games, phone / ipod applications, social networks, VOD and so on...

My daughter never asks me to buy her a CD and she even doesn't own a single MP3 (legal or not). But she will ask me to buy the latest NDS game, for sure. When I was her age, I could spend the full sunday morning listening to some records, she will play with the Wii. And I could go like this on and on with every kids I know.
Old 7th January 2011
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
Yes but this is valid only with music competing with music. But you have also to compete with other contents like games, phone / ipod applications, social networks, VOD and so on...

My daughter never asks me to buy her a CD and she even doesn't own a single MP3 (legal or not).
How do explain the sale of 220 million iPods over the last 10 years?
The product practically made Apple, and in a time when 'kids' aren't interested in music?
Old 7th January 2011
  #40
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
How do explain the sale of 220 million iPods over the last 10 years?
Yes, this was for the past ten years. What I'm talking about is the next generation.

The last ten years were about people listening to music but not paying for it. The next 10+ years will not only be about how to fight piracy but how to appeal to a growing generation of kids that just don't seat and listen to music anymore but want to interact in a way or another. When I look at kids in the train or subway, I never see one of them listening to an Ipod. They play games on their NDS or PSP for the younger, write emails or use apps on their phones for the older. And those media devices are just spreading more and more. How to take advantage of this new business model is IMHO as much important as fighting piracy.
Old 7th January 2011
  #41
You may be right.
But my point was in answer to lagavulin, who claims the downward spiral of newspaper readership has the same root cause as the downward spiral in music sales.
So, as I said, how would one then account for the huge boom in mp3 players such as the iPod?
Old 8th January 2011
  #42
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Neenja's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purple vista View Post
It's a little different though. Movie piracy mostly hurts Blockbuster other "rental" sources. Most of the dive in DVD sales seems to be from people having bought most of the catalog stuff they wanted long ago. BLuray is helping sales, but catalog is still lacking because it is catalog. You can only sell the exact same thing so many times.
Old 9th January 2011
  #43
Lives for gear
 

I guess it does make sense, keep lower the price until the tunes are for free, who is interested in mp3 quality anyway... I hope amazon eventually learns that mp3s are of negative value.
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