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Enough is enough!!!
Old 15th December 2010
  #1
Gear Addict
Enough is enough!!!

Ok, I must admit, I love this site & have learned a lot from each and eery single one of you guys.

But at the same time I have asked the questions of "where do I go from here", "what do I do" etc...

But lately all I keep hearing is how music is dead, why did it happen, whats going on, blah blah blah.

Well honestly, ITS CHANGED! Thats what!

Is it just me or do you guys feel as though there are a lot of people here really trying to bring the spirits down. Not that it doesnt suck, but I for one am asking should we just not embrace whats going on and move forward with the change in music?!

I mean yes, I will still ask, how can I make money and how can I make music a full time gig... But I have learned that we must embrace this new frontier and ride the wave of the downward spiral that has been happening in music! Then and only then do we have a chance to do what we love and do it full time?!

Is it just me, or am I just going nuts here?!
Old 15th December 2010
  #2
The music industry, like many similar creative endeavors, is experiencing a major crisis. That's just the plain fact.
Yeah, pretty much all of us are getting on with it to the best of our abilities, diversifying, innovating.
But at the same time, we should take the fight up to the wreckers.
One of the major problems we face is people taking the fruits of our labor without rewarding us in any way. No one else in modern society would stand for that even for a minute. And creative people are no different.
So you're saying we should embrace it? Presumably to save against putting a few noses out of joint?
Old 15th December 2010
  #3
Gear Head
 

@ CISUM

Personally I find the amount of people saying that 'music is dead' etc to be a very positive sign..... even a sign of hope! It's not negative to point out where negativity exists.... and the music industry is full of a lot of negativity at the moment. To deny that fact is more negative than pointing it out.

Struggling artists are saying it, well established artists are saying it, studios are saying it, the public are saying it, cool people are saying it, even parents are saying it, even old record industry gits, who you would have once labelled as part of the negativity a few years ago, are now coming out and saying it. The music industry and popular music culture is desperately ill and in need of serious medical attention!

The only people who are not saying how bad things are in the industry and in our culture are people too young to have known it any different and the tiny, tiny few people who are making a killing. Or (if I may be so bold, and no offense meant) people like yourself who hope that by 'staying positive' (ie not confronting reality) things will magically improve. Positivity is the way, absolutely 100%...... but only if it is guided by a realistic interpretation of what's going on in the big bad world.

So if you look at it this way: millions of people out there care about the industry, their culture, their careers, their music collection and recognize it has all turned to piddle (for a variety of reasons, but mostly due to changes in technology coupled with runaway corporatism) and they all see how bad it has got and they all want it to better again... well, that's a pretty positive starting point is it not?

The only way it will get better is if people continue to talk about what they think is wrong with it and think about how things could be improved... and then actually try and do something along those lines. (Or we could all promise never to discuss it ever again and see how that pans out...)

You mentioned: 'embracing whats going on and moving forward' .... watch out, those are the kinds of meaningless phrases politicians use! We are 'moving forward' whatever happens (it's called 'time', you may have heard of it!)... 'moving forward' has become a popular little way of saying 'doing nothing' or 'not actually changing anything and hoping for the best' ...... OK imagine you are driving a car to across difficult terrain ... is the answer going to always 'move forward'? No, of course not! Driving is more complex than that and you need to be able to steer L and R and maybe even reverse and try another route. When the industry is nosediving into its own poop saying we need to 'move forward' is just plain ridiculous and meaningless.

As much as I like to rant on and on about corporations controlling everything, I think in many ways we are gaining control of our culture and the music industry (thanks to the net etc) and so more than ever it is up to us to find the solutions to problems like piracy etc. With freedom comes responsibility and if WE don't sort the problems out collectively then guess what - corporations will undoubtedly step in with some draconian solution that SUITS THEM BEST at the expense of music and culture (as always) ... and so part of the solution has to be a change in mindset/ attitudes amongst people where we all recognize we always get back what we give and if we don't value our music industry and culture we end up with one that is worthless. (Ta Daaa! ) But as idealistic as that sounds, a change in attitudes shouldn't be that hard because so many people do now agree that things are at rock bottom right now and music has totally lost its 'mojo'. So in my opinon we need to step up the talking and raise the awareness among those around us - that in itself will eventually produce a solution that will rescue our culture/ industry because that's how the universe works!


Just my 2 cents.
Old 15th December 2010
  #4
two great responses.

@ CISUM -

the truth is, if you have a solution to "move forward" and get paid, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

the bottom line is, you are on the front lines of the battle whether you like it or not. you can roll over, without any solution and be in denial of the problem, or you can be a vocal opponent to anyone who suggest that creatives do not have the right to be paid for their work.

if you believe that "moving forward" means not getting paid for your work, than that is your choice, but it is not mine.

honesty is not negativity if it helps to promote positive change.

the only real solution I see at the moment (other than the diversifiying we're already doing) is to be a vocal proponent of legislation to combat piracy. no one should have to compete with illegally free as a baseline.

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/121310blunts
Old 19th December 2010
  #5
Gear Addict
I take blame in how I worded my statement.

What I'm trying to say is, yes we can move forward or just stop making music?!

I for one, really have no clue on what to do with my music, I really do try to look for music libraries but their dried up, and half of them wont even want new artists.

I guess all in all, im just making my music, working full time, and hopefully one day the music will be heard?! AND PAID!
Old 19th December 2010
  #6
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It's just you. Check in less.
Happy holidays and a good brand new 2011!
Old 20th December 2010
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CISUM View Post
Enough is enough!!!
You've had it with these Monday Friday snakes on this mustard frying plane?
Old 20th December 2010
  #8
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CISUM View Post
I take blame in how I worded my statement.

What I'm trying to say is, yes we can move forward or just stop making music?!

If you are only starting out and want to make a LIVING from music (and by living I mean house, wife, 2 kids, insurance, cars, 1 vacation per year, etc.) then the answer is stop and look elsewhere.

If you've been doing it a long time and have a lot of clients/contacts that potentially have money they would spread around if the occasion arose, the answer is innovate and diversify - or die.

If you want to be a rock star or have a million dollar studio the answer is 25 years too late.

If you want to just make music for fun and have the opportunity to have people all around the world hear your FREE music, then the answer is : The time has never been better - you lucked out.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #9
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
If you are only starting out and want to make a LIVING from music (and by living I mean house, wife, 2 kids, insurance, cars, 1 vacation per year, etc.) then the answer is stop and look elsewhere.

If you've been doing it a long time and have a lot of clients/contacts that potentially have money they would spread around if the occasion arose, the answer is innovate and diversify - or die.

If you want to be a rock star or have a million dollar studio the answer is 25 years too late.

If you want to just make music for fun and have the opportunity to have people all around the world hear your FREE music, then the answer is : The time has never been better - you lucked out.

Ok!Thanks!

Do you think there will ever be a method to make money in music at all?
Movies? Indi directors? etc?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CISUM View Post
Ok!Thanks!

Do you think there will ever be a method to make money in music at all
ANSWER NO. 1 (for dreamers - interestingly being called a 'dreamer' used to be ah honor in some cultures, today it is a slur... go figure)

No, at least not until enough people get educated and the system changes to reflect that awareness. It's boring and idealistic but that's the way it is.

The music industry is in a similar situation to the food (groceries) industry where you have a few giants with their supermarkets and everyone else selling produce on their doorstep grown in their allotments.

JUst like with food, most people go to the giant supermarket of mainstream media to shop for their music.... or rather it comes to them in the form of marketing and advertising and culture creation.

The food giants are using their muscle (increasing monopoly) to gain control from production to checkout and thus force prices down, make products like milk effectively worthless, which puts everyone else out of business except those thrown a lifeline BY THOSE FEW INDUSTRY GIANTS who are destroying the market in the first place. Same deal with music industry corporations. As the monopolies grow they are able to exert more and more control and shape the very world we live in. Supermarkets routinely make deals with planning councils to allow them to build a store in a town when it would otherwise get refused and is in fact being actively opposed by local residents (this is actually fascism - corporations and state working in their mutual interests vs the people). Same thing happens with music industry and media (celebs getting on the 'news' when it is not news but marketing, X-factor as publicity machine for Cowell's empire and free marketing for Xmas single, that Wizard of Oz talent show as free marketing blah blah...). It's all fascism by definition. Just because it is all glossy and smiley and called 'entertainment' doesn't stop it from being fascism underneath.

Nothing will change until enough people start to realise that supermarkets and the mainstream music/ entertainment industry (as just two examples out of many) are becoming all powerful monopolies who are able to use their power to 'buy' for themselves privilege and exemption from the rules which everyone else has to abide by. This means that they are actually FASCISM in action. And when the general public is finally able to see past the marketing and indoctrination (cute little supermarket catchphrases and glossy album covers and catchy tunes - all of which are designed to make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside) and when the public can look past this marketed feeling of FAMILIARITY with these giant faceless organizatioons which they actually know NOTHING about ... and finally when the public begin to IDENTIFY and ASSOCIATE those cold and calculated industries with cold and calculated FASCISM (instead of some fake emotional familiarity) then people might start to look elsewhere for their food/ music.

This is where 'farmers markets' and similar enterprises and 'web based independent music hubs' will be able to step in and offer the solution (or the beginnings of one). This is already happening and naturally corporations are trying to subvert and cash in immediately .... but if they can be kept uncontaminated I believe this sort of thing is the future. The 'way forward' as they say.

But ultimately we will all get what we pay for ..... choice or monopolies .... a free market or fascist control ..... culture or crap... I personally hope there will NEVER be a time in the future when music artists are able to become multi millionaires overnight. Because the industry will always move in and exploit that potential and seek to control it. Musicians get to be creative instead of stacking shelves ... they should be valued enough (if they are any good) to make a decent living and no more unless you are really exceptional. And if you removed the PARASITE which is the corporate music industry all the money going to the Biebers and Beyonces of the world would get redistributed among actual working musicians. And in the wider sense all the money going to corporate mass entertainment would go back to live venues, cultural centres etc Real live art and live entertainment and real live social interaction IS what people want. We, as humans, always have and always will want this .... unless we allow ourselves to get 'wii chipped' and assimilated to the corporate entertainment borg in which case we will be 'happy' to stay at home and live a virtual (substitute) life manufactured entirely by corporations .... like many people do already of course....

Nearly all of the problems of the world are caused by PARASITES, the kind of 'soft fascism' descibed above is really a form of parasitism. Parasites are creatures who are LACKING skills and advantage and so they need to feed off more advanced host creatures in order to survive. They can't compete so they suck instead, literally. Look at corporate music industry feeding off the talent of certain producers or technology in general or even the body attributes of many of its more beautiful puppet 'artists'........sure it might benefit these individuals (financially - although not always) but it never benefits the 'host body' as a whole (society/ culture) ... This is exactly why we are taught to think ONLY in terms of personal, individual material gain - it's the ONLY idealogy which makes this PARASITIC infestation into every aspect of our lives and society seem acceptable, rather than grotesque and abhorrent.

Then you have the media, supermarket giants, governments.... they are all parasites as well - sucking off the wealth, energy, health and happiness from ordinary creative hard working people. That's NOT a judgement on them - it's just a fact. (to judge them morally is to presume they have a choice, which of course they don't, and is why they are forced to be parasites! No one CHOOSES to be a tapeworm or a tick!)

In nature many parasites are able to inject an anesthetic into the host so they won't be aware of the parasitism .... well our mass media/ entertainment culture IS one giant anesthetic! Many parasites in nature can even 'mind control' their hosts to make them do exactly what the parasites want them to do - even commit suicide. We have the same situation here with humans routinely allowing themselves to be mind controlled into doing certain things, having certain careers, certain lifestyles, consuming certain products which ruin their lives or even end them prematurely - but benefit the parasites. The most extreme example would be being a soldier who is mind controlled through patriotism (nothing wrong with that in itself) to go overseas and slaughter innocent civilians to benefit a few rich corporate/ elite interests and possibly get blown up in the process.

Parasitism ... it's destroying everything good in the world - and bleeding it dry literally

We have to understand it and face up to it and then STARVE the parasites until they drop off.

Only when this happens will honest, creative genuine and talented music artists ever have a chance to make any money again. Not silly money but sensible money. Same goes for food artists, health artists, housing artists, transport artists, technology artists, science artists, philosopher artists, teacher artists etc....... they will all be able to thrive when all the parasites are removed.

And we will all feel so good and the world will run itself so well that we won't need to be a millionaires locked up in a mansion surrounded by gates and private security in order to 'escape' this sick parasitic world.

ANSWER NO. 2 (for non dreamers)

Give your music away for free and make money from T-shirts and merchandise. Write music for computer games that teach kids to kill people in a realistic warfare scenario even though you grew up idolizing John Lennon. That's right ..... learn to adapt to this modern world - try wearing your tapeworm as a scarf. That'll show it who's boss.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by CISUM View Post
Ok!Thanks!

Do you think there will ever be a method to make money in music at all?
Movies? Indi directors? etc?
Audio is a much larger world than music, if that helps.

First, even in my mid-sized city there are at least 3 full time jobs, engineering for picture. In fact I believe there are 6 seats, but not sure if they're all full time, so I'm hedging. These jobs will continue to exist, regardless of business models and opportunity in music and entertainment.

Along those lines there are a few peeps doing COMMERCIAL audio - ads etc for broadcast, not to mention staging and event work for the endless seminars, workshops and come-ons in corporate America. Jobdom, not stardom. All these webisodes you see featuring poorly recorded audio benefit from a quick touch by a pro. Touring work seems attainable in music and corporate (I've turned down jobs as recently as last year). At my old job we did a ton of restoration and noise reduction for lawyers. That seems to be an endless stream in mid-sized markets (no fault divorce really slowed it down though).

There's a guy here making a living building boutique gear for audiophiles and musicians - high end amps etc. He does well, as do at least 6 staffers selling audiophile flooby dust to swingdicks; the rich are apparently doing well enough to fuel a cottage industry of stereo installers and integration-programmers. At least 2 local megachurches have staff engineers who are full time employees. So do most hotels and convention centers.

Thanks to Full Sail et al, the competition for these jobs is fierce and sometimes false - real expertise can be beaten by enthusiasm and faux credentials. But there are in fact jobs. To claim there's no opportunity is akin to saying baseball is a dead end; that's generally true and good advice, unless you happen to be talented, in which case it's literally a million dollar lie. There's a significant difference between highly competitive and non-existent. Audio is highly competitive. Even tangential jobs attract over-qualified, enthusiastic applications.

In studios, especially at the bottom of the rate ladder, it's a game of "screw your buddy" and in many markets a race to the bottom. Many markets can't support facilities at the top at all, and are well served by part time ad hoc operations, or half-a$$ audio rooms in the closet of a video house, so yeah, some of those gigs are gone for good, at least as careers. But life goes on, music is made, many talented people apply for and take positions where they record or deliver audio for a living. What's changed is the rate structure and business model, not the work (or competition, for that matter).

Hope this provides some ideas or new directions. Happy holidays!

-d-
Old 23rd December 2010
  #12
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drBill's Avatar
Some good observations Dave! thumbsup
Old 23rd December 2010
  #13
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CISUM View Post
Do you think there will ever be a method to make money in music at all?
Movies? Indi directors? etc?
I think there are ways. They are not "normal" ways, but are found within the fabric of the mind of the individual doing the hunting. Are those ways enough to support you or a family? I cannot answer that as it's a highly individualized question.

There is no map to a laid out pathway to follow. Those of us who have made it - even decades ago - made our OWN paths. If you try to follow my path, it would be futile and end up in frustration / bankrupcy for you most likely. My plan is no doubt infinately different than your plan or the next guy's. (That's one thing you will notice if you read a lot of stories about how guys made it. There are as many "ways or paths" as there are stories. One thing I can tell you is that you've got to get multiple income streams working, and balance a lot of dishes on tall sticks......heh heh

Anyone who wants to pursue music long term (life long) must currently be an outside the box thinker, willing to sacrifice everything else to meet the goal, be incredibly disciplined, and lucky. Is that you?

As to your film question - Music in film is harder than music for the public consumption. That's an option, but it is quite literally magnitudes more difficult than getting a bunch of people to buy your CD. I would only suggest that goal if music to picture enthralls you. If it's just an option because being a rock star didn't work out....... Don't frustrate yourself.

Good luck.

bp
Old 27th December 2010
  #14
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