The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Artists: Labels need YOU --- NOT the other way around Modular Synthesizers
Old 6th April 2010
  #91
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
U2 has a lease deal. Plenty of other people do.
Yeah but lets be fair here. Its U2. If theres any band that can bargain from a position of strength in contract negotiations its U2. They aren't so much a band as they are a time tested, money making juggernaut that as it happens can play their own instruments.

Quote:
the idea that there has ever been some kind of a "standard" recording contract is total B.S.
I work in a law firm and whilst its true that the terms of any contract are negotiable and eventually settled 'by agreement' we do have templates and precedents that we work off. These templates have a fairly standard wording that doesn't ever really change and then a section where you literally just add or delete clauses as and where appropriate. These are done mainly for time saving but I know my boss has talked about seeing the same old **** over and over and broadly the same terms that can't really be contested because its a 'take it or leave it' thing. They are sets of generic, commonly sought (and unrealistic) terms that are used to test your bargaining strength at first. You really don't want to sign that sort of thing. Hell, in some cases the label probably doesn't even want you to sign the thing since they know it would crush you and later on theres going to be this thorny problem over when you stop generating money and you still owe the label some wonga. What you are supposed to do is go back and forth with your lawyers until you agree upon a mutually agreeable set of terms upon which both parties can realistically fulfill their obligation.

One of the things they teach you in law school is bargaining position which is to always start by asking for more than you can realistically get and then gradually make concessions back to what you realistically want to get. This way you are always seen to be giving ground but in the end you still get what you want (or if you are good and have a strong bargaining position, slightly more than you expected to get).

For people who are used to dealing with lawyers on a regular basis then thats just common sense and the first back and forth is always a write off. Its just to see how unrealistic the other side's terms are and having an educated guess at how much ground they are likely to give when you start showing your proverbial cards. If nobody knows who you are and you don't have a proven record of profitable company relations then you don't have anything to bargain with, frankly speaking. So in fairness to Mr. Albini, calling out U2 in this discussion is a bit off since Bono and co are world reknowned and practically **** gold.

I actually wonder why there aren't more suits straight out of business school with serious expressions on their faces, gold panning underneath the Edge's ankles at every hour of the day feverishly trying to catch a nugget.
Old 6th April 2010
  #92
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robobaby View Post
...I work in a law firm and whilst its true that the terms of any contract are 'by agreement' we do have templates and precedents that we work off. ....
Then you are not representing your clients best interests.
Old 6th April 2010
  #93
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapsmith9 View Post
What about that female grammy winner for best home recording ?
I would recommend you actually learn a bit about her before you throw her out as evidence. She has like a 30'ish part video blog on the making of the studio, and she came from a pretty well known major label band before that, Frou Frou. She had a fair lot of money to put that studio together and if you think that joe blow is going to do that, you are mistaken. And of course she could get all kinds of very talented people to help her, technically and musically.

Quote:
It doesn't matter though, the model of artists doing it all or mainly All the previous parasites trying to get their hooks in gullible young bands/artists will be totally ignored. Gone will be the days of artists getting a puny % of sales, and gone will be the days of label slavery and severe debt.
You seem to be completely infected by the anti-label internet propoganda machine. What's more likely going to happen is that all but a tiny handful of artists are basically going to be getting 100% of almost nothing, and working far harder to get it, most likely. And the possibility of actualy hitting it big will have almost completely vanished, because it actually requires money.
Old 6th April 2010
  #94
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Then you are not representing your clients best interests.
How so? I would contend that any law firm will always represent their client's best interests but there is a big difference between what the client wants and what they can realistically get. Ultimately its their call and all we do is advise, draft, redraft and bill (an admittedly obscene amount of money) per hour.
Old 7th April 2010
  #95
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
You seem to be completely infected by the anti-label internet propoganda machine.
No, you are completely in denial about the new non-label era artists have entered in 2010, a path paved by NIN and other alt/indie acts. Labels are great, if they actually liberate the artist financially and don't shackle them with debt and touring stress (you've perhaps heard the roadkill reference before). I'll leave it to the truly neutral statisticians to state what % of labels actually do this. I'd guess it's 25% or so.
Old 7th April 2010
  #96
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapsmith9 View Post
No, you are completely in denial about the new non-label era artists have entered in 2010, a path paved by NIN and other alt/indie acts.
NIN was built off the backs of the major label machine as have almost all in this category. You cannot count them as paving the way for alt indie acts. They were already internationally known with a huge track record and alot of $ behind them from majors for years before they went indy. Their fans stayed with them and look for them. People do not sift thru the 200 million + unknown artists stuck online for something new. Too much garbage. Getting them to come to you is the task that has not been figured out by the unknown internet artist as of yet.
Old 7th April 2010
  #97
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapsmith9 View Post
This is a heated issue because the music industry is undergoing a major overhaul. Business models and options are changing.
the old way of doing things is indeed disappearing. But 'changing' implies that something else is taking its place...

I am genuinely unaware of who these bands are you are referring to. Please give some examples of bands that have successfully broken nationally by doing their own booking, their own recording and their own promotion. I know plenty of bands trying this, but if they get a gig in a bar across the state line, it's a big deal.

do not use as examples bands that were successful label bands who THEN went out 'on their own' after they had built a national following, and do not use as examples bands with savvy managers and secret labels who pretended they were 'doing it themselves' with their slick Hi-Def "amateur" YouTubes and professional MySpace Optimization teams.

just some bands that are actually doing it on a national level as you describe -without the hated middlemen.
Old 7th April 2010
  #98
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
the old way of doing things is indeed disappearing. But 'changing' implies that something else is taking its place...

I am genuinely unaware of who these bands are you are referring to. Please give some examples of bands that have successfully broken nationally by doing their own booking, their own recording and their own promotion. I know plenty of bands trying this, but if they get a gig in a bar across the state line, it's a big deal.

do not use as examples bands that were successful label bands who THEN went out 'on their own' after they had built a national following, and do not use as examples bands with savvy managers and secret labels who pretended they were 'doing it themselves' with their slick Hi-Def "amateur" YouTubes and professional MySpace Optimization teams.

just some bands that are actually doing it on a national level as you describe -without the hated middlemen.
{sitting next to Joeq, stroking chin and nodding in anticipation "mmhmm?"}
Old 7th April 2010
  #99
Lives for gear
Basically true, and that is the area of concern.

I for one don't expect to see national breakouts without the manpower and pockets of record companies. I expect to see a lot more regional development with slower growth.

I would also point out that band that grow this way have longer carres in general because they are less reliant on the quick hit. The obvious example is Dave Mathews, or several jam bands. The band Dispach sold out three nights at MSG a year or so ago, and I had no idea who they were. But kids did.

Basically the majors have been surviving on producers outpit and solo artists or fake bands. They have a few hits and disappear. Most never tour with any real impact. But the Allman Brothers can still do 200 dates a year.

The benefit for this forum is that these new bands will have to play and write like in the old days. As painful as it has been, I really think that what is evolving will ultimately be beyyer for all, with the possible exception of suits. Waybe even for them.

Unfortunately...suffering through the transition is killing a lot of folks.
Old 7th April 2010
  #100
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
I can only think of two, both female singer/songwriters--Ani Difranco and Ingrid Michelson. But it is clear that these examples are the rare exception and not the rule. Every other act that has broken big nationally has done so with the muscle of an established label and its infrastructure behind them.
I agree.

We must also add that, Ani Difranco been doing her feminist political thing since 1990. She built her following during a very, very different time. Alot of artists back then were able to do the indy thing and get paid from your local mom and pop stores that are gone today and get followings in their areas that expand with time. Many rappers & bands sold "out the trunk" and made good money then. They hit the street and made it happen. And, Ingrid Michelson married a very connected guy in this industry.
Old 7th April 2010
  #101
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkaos View Post
I agree.

We must also add that, Ani Difranco been doing her feminist political thing since 1990. She built her following during a very, very different time. Alot of artists back then were able to do the indy thing and get paid from your local mom and pop stores that are gone today and get followings in their areas that expand with time.
There is also the advantage of being an early bird. Not to take anything away from DiFranco's acomplishment, but the immense glut of DIY artists out today makes it even harder to just be noticed.

Quote:
And, Ingrid Michelson married a very connected guy in this industry.
When Michelson put her stuff on her MySpace page, it was Lynn Grossman, the owner of Secret Road, a music licensing and artist management company in Los Angeles, who placed it on Grey's Anatomy and the Old Navy Commercial. Michaelson did not approach these outlets herself, and if she had, I wonder if they would have paid any attention. Nor was Grey's scouring MySpace looking for a song.

Having a committed middleman, or middlewoman, who believes in you is a huge thing.
Old 7th April 2010
  #102
Gear Maniac
 
Hashbrown's Avatar
 

Wow, some food for thought.

I do like what someone on here said earlier about most of this talk being misleading.

I'm about to wade into the fray with my own music, played, recorded, and produced by me and a friend. I have no money to do this, so i have to do it in certain ways to compensate (recording in shops, not studios).
After that, i will make the artwork, and put down some money for initial pressing (1000 copies should be fine). Then i will get a few gigs solo, and keep playing them until i find a drummer and bassist to join me. Then i will carry on gigging untill we can tour somewhat. After that, who knows.

I have no idea of how i should go about this, but i have to try.
I have listened to people say that musicians don't make money. I agree, i'm trying to sell them things! But who cares? I know that playing music is what i do best and what i enjoy doing the most. I owe it to myself to try make a living out of it. Dave Grohl said he is on holiday every day. I want to give myself a chance to achieve that.

Major Label, Indie Label, or nothing. As long as people get to hear it, and you get a few bucks for that hard work.
This is my naive dream, but dammit i gotta try! i seem to hate everything else i do. I can do all sorts of jobs for a few months, then i get down and want to leave, and kick myself for not kicking myself earlier to get out there and gig.

Anyway, i'm off to update my drummer wanted posters.

Carry on...
Old 7th April 2010
  #103
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
I agree with you, but the other problem is that this model only works for a very specific type of act. In the examples you cited, the jam bands, which is a specific niche.

Problem is, what do you do if you're a solo R&B artist, or hip hop or dance artist, or any number of genres which have never been historically known as big perennial touring draws, or certainly don't establish their audiences primarily through touring? It's a viable path for a jam or rock band to establish their career and success first and foremost from live performing. But would say, Stevie Wonder if he was coming up today be "Stevie Wonder" the legend if he had to build his career from scratch primarily as a touring act, rather than having all those hit records?
Well you are correct...but remember that the traditional label model is still viable for those styles.

And I don't think its going away for a while. My friends at Jive crank out that type hit every month. Maybe in time that will go this way as well, but as long as there is big radio that game will exist,
Old 7th April 2010
  #104
Lives for gear
 
redrue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hashbrown View Post
Wow, some food for thought.

I do like what someone on here said earlier about most of this talk being misleading.

I'm about to wade into the fray with my own music, played, recorded, and produced by me and a friend. I have no money to do this, so i have to do it in certain ways to compensate (recording in shops, not studios).
After that, i will make the artwork, and put down some money for initial pressing (1000 copies should be fine). Then i will get a few gigs solo, and keep playing them until i find a drummer and bassist to join me. Then i will carry on gigging untill we can tour somewhat. After that, who knows.

I have no idea of how i should go about this, but i have to try.
I have listened to people say that musicians don't make money. I agree, i'm trying to sell them things! But who cares? I know that playing music is what i do best and what i enjoy doing the most. I owe it to myself to try make a living out of it. Dave Grohl said he is on holiday every day. I want to give myself a chance to achieve that.

Major Label, Indie Label, or nothing. As long as people get to hear it, and you get a few bucks for that hard work.
This is my naive dream, but dammit i gotta try! i seem to hate everything else i do. I can do all sorts of jobs for a few months, then i get down and want to leave, and kick myself for not kicking myself earlier to get out there and gig.

Anyway, i'm off to update my drummer wanted posters.

Carry on...
thumbsup

THIS is the way. Obstacles be damned.

In the ring they characterize fighters that continue
to fight in the face of adversity as having HEART.

Good on you! Godspeed, Hashbrown!
Old 7th April 2010
  #105
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

The whole concept of "a business model" is objectifying an artist's relationship with their fans. It doesn't work and has never actually worked that I'm aware of simply because each relationship is unique.

Think for a minute about the relationships you have with various artists as a fan.
Old 7th April 2010
  #106
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
U2 has a lease deal. Plenty of other people do.

Steve, the idea that there has ever been some kind of a "standard" recording contract is total B.S.
To recap,
A couple of bands in the 1960s, the Rolling Stones and U2 all have some vestment in master ownership, which is pretty much the class of mature artists and superstars I described.

While I agree it would be awesome for a new band to strike a deal where it owned its masters, it is a fantasy to think that a major label would allow an unknown/new artist to own its masters. Independent labels make deals like this all the time, but that's not who I was talking about in the original article.

And while there has never been a 100% standardized contract, certain provisions were boilerplate and some or all of them would appear in every contract I've seen:

Recording costs recouped from artist royalty
Label responsibility beginning on "acceptance" of masters
clauses requiring artist and label to "agree" on expenditures (giving label control/veto on all processes)
Production and administrative points coming from artist base royalty
"Free goods" descriptions that include discounted sales
Breakage reserves or deductions
Packaging deductions
Percentile reductions in "statutory minimum" mechanical accounting
Track count caps on mechanical royalties
Suspension of payments during auditing

All of these and more are specifically designed to make accounting opaque, to shift costs onto the artist and sequester money out of the accounting stream so the band doesn't get what the base deal terms might suggest.
Old 7th April 2010
  #107
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
I can only think of two, both female singer/songwriters--Ani Difranco and Ingrid Michelson. But it is clear that these examples are the rare exception and not the rule. Every other act that has broken big nationally has done so with the muscle of an established label and its infrastructure behind them.
Quite a few niche artists create their own economic base with little support from the mainstream showbusiness industry.

Ani DiFranco is a good example, a lot of idiosyncratic acts build their own audiences without much if any external support, like Tegan and Sara. The jam band circuit is packed with success stories like String Cheese Incident, Moe and Umphry's McGee. If you want a big money example of independent success, Insane Clown Posse are completely in control of their career and probably generate 10 million a year. The club/dj/abstract electronic/drug scene has its superstars, many of whom have never been on a label at all. The punk and underground music scenes have spawned dozens of bands around the world who play to thousands and are self-sufficient with decades-long careers; Fugazi, the Ex, Neurosis, Tortoise, Mono... I could literally go on all night.

You won't see most of these bands on television, but they aren't exactly on welfare either. It is perfectly possible to have a long and productive career while living a reasonably comfortable lifestyle entirely outside the mainstream music business.
Old 8th April 2010
  #108
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Albini View Post
If you want a big money example of independent success, Insane Clown Posse are completely in control of their career and probably generate 10 million a year.
ICP started in 1985- a real different time when you could do indy w/ mom and pop, but they were on the major Jive when I worked there in the mid 90's and they were on a major after that. Not really the same as what the unknown bands are trying to wade thru today. Those major label machine marketing & promo looks did wonders for their awareness & fanbase.
Old 8th April 2010
  #109
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Albini View Post
To recap,
A couple of bands in the 1960s, the Rolling Stones and U2 all have some vestment in master ownership, which is pretty much the class of mature artists and superstars I described...
Steve, the Stones very first recording contract BEFORE ANYBODY HAD EVER HEARD OF THEM was a master lease.

I don't claim to know know every band's business but I have tripped over a number who got a master lease deal before anybody had ever heard of them.

You are welcome to believe what you read in fan magazines but an awful lot of it simply isn't true.
Old 8th April 2010
  #110
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Steve, the Stones very first recording contract FIFTY YEARS AGO WHEN RECORDS WERE SOLD AT FURNITURE STORESwas a master lease.

I don't claim to know know every band's business but I have tripped over a number who got a master lease deal before the record business had fax machines.
FYP

You can continue to believe that what happened to the Rolling Stones back before color TV is the way things have been done ever since, but an awful lot of it simply isn't true.
Old 8th April 2010
  #111
Lives for gear
Bob,

Obviously there are a few exceptions to every rule, but you are kinda pissing in the wind here. When ICP was on Jive they basically orchestrated one media event after another and were dropped largely because of all sorts of bad publicity. Which of course became GREAT publicity once they were indi again.
the strange fact is that for many bands the best deal has been to be on a major for a couple of rekkids to soak up the publicity dollars and them het dropped.

Ani is on of the few who really made the whole journey as an indie. Not to mention that she turned down all of the majors at one point or another. Her and her manager call all their own shots.
Old 8th April 2010
  #112
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Albini View Post
Quite a few niche artists create their own economic base with little support from the mainstream showbusiness industry.

Ani DiFranco is a good example, a lot of idiosyncratic acts build their own audiences without much if any external support, like Tegan and Sara. The jam band circuit is packed with success stories like String Cheese Incident, Moe and Umphry's McGee. If you want a big money example of independent success, Insane Clown Posse are completely in control of their career and probably generate 10 million a year. The club/dj/abstract electronic/drug scene has its superstars, many of whom have never been on a label at all. The punk and underground music scenes have spawned dozens of bands around the world who play to thousands and are self-sufficient with decades-long careers; Fugazi, the Ex, Neurosis, Tortoise, Mono... I could literally go on all night.

You won't see most of these bands on television, but they aren't exactly on welfare either. It is perfectly possible to have a long and productive career while living a reasonably comfortable lifestyle entirely outside the mainstream music business.
As someone who has had both a major label career and an underground independent existence {and in both realms as an artist and later a producer} I can tell you - neither is any more guaranteed or less hard than the other. The chances of pulling off the self motivated is as equally rare as the major funded release. The difference for me was earning the same amount for far less sales through the late nineties.

I really dont think you could go on all night any more than you could about major label acts.

The other thing - as soon as you step outside of the peculiarity that is the USA {and the USA is a peculiarity in global music terms - we don't listen to what you speak !!} - the artist world gets MUCH tougher. Yup - a band can endlessly tour the USA and eak out an existence or better - if they hit the luck fountain - go on to "do their own thing". None of which is possible outside the USA without financial input.
Oh - and Mono {the japanese band} are struggling financially. Just like Electric Eel Shock . Great acts - less money than welfare. Plus Fugazi were on Dischord - not lacking in funding !! It's turtles all the way down!!!
Old 8th April 2010
  #113
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapsmith9 View Post
What about that female grammy winner for best home recording ? It doesn't matter though, the model of artists doing it all or mainly themselves is in it's infancy. Give it 10+ years, and that's ALL there will be. All the previous parasites trying to get their hooks in gullible young bands/artists will be totally ignored. Gone will be the days of artists getting a puny % of sales, and gone will be the days of label slavery and severe debt.
Okay even if what you say is true about the parasites, which it isn't, you replace the days of slavery and sever debt for......the same damn thing!!! except now you don't have the budget and if you do you had to borrow it at such ridiculous interest. Of course now you are handling every aspect, including the books, which sucks, and everything else artists are not renowned for, all so you can have a bigger percentage of way less to no sales....Sounds awesome. A knowledgeable team with all the connex in place and some backing that isn't a bank sounds pretty darn good in my books.
Old 8th April 2010
  #114
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hashbrown View Post
Wow, some food for thought.

I do like what someone on here said earlier about most of this talk being misleading.

I'm about to wade into the fray with my own music, played, recorded, and produced by me and a friend. I have no money to do this, so i have to do it in certain ways to compensate (recording in shops, not studios).
After that, i will make the artwork, and put down some money for initial pressing (1000 copies should be fine). Then i will get a few gigs solo, and keep playing them until i find a drummer and bassist to join me. Then i will carry on gigging untill we can tour somewhat. After that, who knows.

I have no idea of how i should go about this, but i have to try.
I have listened to people say that musicians don't make money. I agree, i'm trying to sell them things! But who cares? I know that playing music is what i do best and what i enjoy doing the most. I owe it to myself to try make a living out of it. Dave Grohl said he is on holiday every day. I want to give myself a chance to achieve that.

Major Label, Indie Label, or nothing. As long as people get to hear it, and you get a few bucks for that hard work.
This is my naive dream, but dammit i gotta try! i seem to hate everything else i do. I can do all sorts of jobs for a few months, then i get down and want to leave, and kick myself for not kicking myself earlier to get out there and gig.

Anyway, i'm off to update my drummer wanted posters.

Carry on...
Hey dude....If you have no money think long and hard about pressing 1000 cd's. While the cost per unit is better it might take you a while to sell those thus tying up much needed capital. There should be some deals out there to get them on demand with distribution and to free up even $1000-2000 when you have none, will help tremendously in your efforts. Of course you may already have people lining up so if you have guaranteed sales of over 500 of them, then give her hell, otherwise consider all your options.

Definitely give it a shot...lots of good can come from it, just keep your options open.
Old 8th April 2010
  #115
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
...Obviously there are a few exceptions to every rule, ..
Except that when there has never actually in fact been any rule, we're talking about a total fantasy that has been made up out of thin air and repeated out of ignorance.
Old 8th April 2010
  #116
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
...- a band can endlessly tour the USA and eak out an existence or better - if they hit the luck fountain - go on to "do their own thing". None of which is possible outside the USA without financial input...
As far as I know it has never been possible inside the United States for anybody that doesn't have a rich daddy.
Old 8th April 2010
  #117
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
As far as I know it has never been possible inside the United States for anybody that doesn't have a rich daddy.
heh...yup I'll buy that!!
Old 8th April 2010
  #118
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
As far as I know it has never been possible inside the United States for anybody that doesn't have a rich daddy.
Man, it sounds mean to say it but you keep showing that as far as you know isn't very far. I deal with bands literally every week that tour the US for a living. There are thousands of them.

The comments about musicians having it tougher in other countries are pretty off-mark as well. Most other civilized countries have arts support that allows bands to tour, record and maintain themselves with some measure of dignity. The US is actually unusual in that its live music scene is a pretty pure capitalist market, with the exception of the money siphoned out of it by ASCAP, Ticketmaster and the like. If you put asses in the seats, you make pretty good money.
Old 9th April 2010
  #119
Lives for gear
 
AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Hashbrown:

Love your Avatar!
~Best of luck to you thumbsup
Old 9th April 2010
  #120
Gear Maniac
 
Hashbrown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Id Ridden View Post
Hey dude....If you have no money think long and hard about pressing 1000 cd's. While the cost per unit is better it might take you a while to sell those thus tying up much needed capital. There should be some deals out there to get them on demand with distribution and to free up even $1000-2000 when you have none, will help tremendously in your efforts. Of course you may already have people lining up so if you have guaranteed sales of over 500 of them, then give her hell, otherwise consider all your options.

Definitely give it a shot...lots of good can come from it, just keep your options open.
Hmm, that's a good idea, i'll look around.

I start test tracking tomorrow (to see if the room is right for drums)


On the Topic...
A friend of mine is a writer (not pro, but trying), he has a blog going with a healthy following. He said he has the figures to go to an ad agency to get extra cash, but he would rather work on the population of the site, and build a brand, and get the ad guys to come to him.
That seemed like a cool way of doing it.
But what if they don't come?
I like to believe that if the talent is there, is readily available, then they will come. I like to believe that the universe helps those who help themselves.
But i'm wary of the current market situation of too many fish in the sea, it's easy to get lost out there.

Do you have to be truly genius or truly business savvy to get ahead these days? Not that i can talk about the old days, i'm still young.
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
VegasMusicMan / Downloads, the future - Q+A forum with expert guests from CD Baby, Tunecore and Nimbit
16
bschigel / Geekslutz forum
7

Forum Jump
Forum Jump