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President annouces support for radio pay-to-play Dynamics Plugins
Old 2nd April 2010
  #1
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Question President annouces support for radio pay-to-play

What's the official GS take on this??

Obama admin: it's time make radio pay for its music

Looks like the executive will now be pushing the legislature to get a bill through
Old 2nd April 2010
  #2
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My official take on precursory look this morning, was that finally this government addresses something in a meaningful way.

That may change on pending research, but as of now, I'm pleased by it.
Old 2nd April 2010
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what is the justification for making radio pay for something it's never had to pay before?

and how will this impact the few (if any) independents and small shows still out there?
Old 2nd April 2010
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I'm not sure there's any justification beyond forcing them to do what they should've done a long time ago.

My fear is that the impact will be negative on the smaller guys. My understanding is that college radio may be exempted. At least in the House version of the bill.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #5
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hmmmmmmmmmm.......maybe i should do shaker overdubs on all my mixes
Old 2nd April 2010
  #6
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This has the potential of being great for musicians. My first reaction was cynical but I will try to be optimistic.

Last edited by midnightsun; 2nd April 2010 at 06:21 PM.. Reason: second thoughts
Old 2nd April 2010
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scud133 View Post
what is the justification for making radio pay for something it's never had to pay before?
Using that logic, why should we ever change anything?!?

Just like gays in the military, universal health care, and gay marriage, it is now time that the US caught up with the rest of the civilized world. We kid ourselves thinking that we are the leaders in ANYTHING (except obesity and illiteracy).

Other countries have rightfully done this for years. Congrats to Obama on this.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Addict View Post

Just like gays in the military, universal health care, and gay marriage, it is now time that the US caught up with the rest of the civilized world. We kid ourselves thinking that we are the leaders in ANYTHING (except obesity and illiteracy).
Classical music...?

to each his own...
Old 2nd April 2010
  #9
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this is not something the Obama Administration has all of a sudden just struck upon. It is not even their idea.
This is something that has been in process for a LONG time. The AFM (musicians union) and others have been pushing/lobbing for this for a number of years.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #10
TRA
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What about streaming media or podcasts? You can already stream music to an iPhone that is hooked up to your car stereo. Mobile streaming media is the future so they better look ahead. Why do you think the 700mhz band was purchased by the mobile carriers?
Old 2nd April 2010
  #11
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Well, as I've researched this I've softened my belief that this is all good.

According to the Senate bill, all radio stations will pay a blanket fee (much like they do to ASCAP, etc...), payable to SoundExchange, which will collect on behalf of the RIAA.

Smaller stations will only have to pay a flat annual $5000 fee.

I was initially in favor, because on paper, the logic is reasonable and certainly justifiable, from a musician's standpoint.

However, after reading the legislation a few times, I'm not so sure anymore. The fact is, most radio now is Clear Channel owned, so enforcing them to pay is fine by me, but whatever mom & pop stations are left most likely cannot afford this. It will certainly kill whatever small profit they still have.

Also, since the fees are a BLANKET fee only, and they basically go to the RIAA, the bill serves mainly as a last gasp effort to increase revenue for companies I have absolutely no reverence toward.

The flip side is that radio is basically ineffective these days, and listenership is sharply declining by the month. So the old argument of free promotion only goes so far, and the fact is most independent stations play from the Clear Channel servers anyway, so ultimately, there is no playlist for unknowns or independents. Just doesn't exist.

The problem is, I don't think Madonna needs another million a year for performance royalties, and frankly, that is mostly the level of performer that this will benefit. The independents would benefit, but the only stations that rotate independent music cannot likely afford the extra fees.

It's a tough call - I'm not sure anymore that this is good. I'm not convinced that it's bad either.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #12
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Can anyone explain more about how this whole thing works for those of us who don't know much?

ie. who is Clear Channel?

How would a blanket $5000 fee per year be distributed to all the artists that one radio station plays?

I live near Phoenix. A decade ago we had a ton of rock/alternative stations. Now the only independent one left gets sold (goes out of business?) at least once a year. Hope this wouldn't kill them for good.

Seems like the only stations that can stay 100% profitable are top 40.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #13
Vum
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this has been 3 years in the making...
Old 2nd April 2010
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliba View Post
Can anyone explain more about how this whole thing works for those of us who don't know much?

ie. who is Clear Channel?
Clear Channel is a pretty large media conglomerate that owns most of the radio broadcasting in the country. Somewhere around 1200-1400 stations, though I may be off on that number.

The parent company CC Media, owns LiveNation, ClearChannel outdoor, and a handful of other companies (they did this to avoid anti-trust FCC regulations on consolidation).


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliba View Post
How would a blanket $5000 fee per year be distributed to all the artists that one radio station plays?
My understanding is that SoundExchange would collect these payments, much like the manner that ASCAP, SESAC, BMI collect royalties. Then, the payments would be distributed via the RIAA. The language is unclear as to how it gets to the artists. I would imagine they'd adopt a cue sheet style submission just as ASCAP and the like does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliba View Post
I live near Phoenix. A decade ago we had a ton of rock/alternative stations. Now the only independent one left gets sold (goes out of business?) at least once a year. Hope this wouldn't kill them for good.

Seems like the only stations that can stay 100% profitable are top 40.
Well I think there is a real fear of that happening under this legislation. There are some talks going on about exclusions and other such exemptions for religious stations (why do they always get exemptions?), and incidental users of music (not sure how that is defined yet).
Old 2nd April 2010
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJamesGoody View Post
My understanding is that SoundExchange would collect these payments, much like the manner that ASCAP, SESAC, BMI collect royalties. Then, the payments would be distributed via the RIAA. The language is unclear as to how it gets to the artists. I would imagine they'd adopt a cue sheet style submission just as ASCAP and the like does.
Haha...this is just more corporatism...the middle-man bitching to the government to throw a bone to their failing companies with monies which are taxed out of the pocket of the musicians in the first place!

This is a big middle-finger to the people who actually "create" the art, while it greases the pockets of the irrelevant intermediaries who collude with the government.

More of the same mixed-economy (fake-capitalism) system that both parties love so much.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Addict View Post
Using that logic, why should we ever change anything?!?

Just like gays in the military, universal health care, and gay marriage, it is now time that the US caught up with the rest of the civilized world. We kid ourselves thinking that we are the leaders in ANYTHING (except obesity and illiteracy).

Other countries have rightfully done this for years. Congrats to Obama on this.
i didn't mean to impart a 'type of logic' --- it was just a question

Old 2nd April 2010
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtone View Post
this is not something the Obama Administration has all of a sudden just struck upon. It is not even their idea.
This is something that has been in process for a LONG time. The AFM (musicians union) and others have been pushing/lobbing for this for a number of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vum View Post
this has been 3 years in the making...
yea but they just announced that he will specifically be pushing for Congress to do something. the issue isn't new, it's the prez's position that's new
Old 2nd April 2010
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtone View Post
this is not something the Obama Administration has all of a sudden just struck upon. It is not even their idea.
This is something that has been in process for a LONG time. The AFM (musicians union) and others have been pushing/lobbing for this for a number of years.
nobody is saying that. they're announcing obamas "support".
Old 2nd April 2010
  #19
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It's not just Madonna making a million more a year (though she will) here's how some other small guys benefit.

Musicians who play on tracks will get paid. If a song is a smash it can add up. A keyboardist I know who played keys on a top 5 hit across Europe received almost $20,000 in Radio Performance royalties. (I guess they missed that he was American...) He didn't write or produce, and his fee for the work was only about $2,000 for the initial session.

Songwriters... look at the European market... there are MANY more artists willing to perform songs they didn't write. Sure, overseas, songwriting "credibility" isn't as important to the public as it is here, but part of why many of these artists are willing to record songs they didn't write is because they still get paid if the song is a radio hit! In facet, having a HIT song will be so much more worthwhile, that artists might just start looking for that smash, wherever it comes from.

Producers. Maybe Timbaland doesn't need the extra million he will get, but every year there are a few breakout stories (and with the internet... I'm sure more and more each year). Everyone here complains our rates are falling. Wouldn't it be nice if that song you did for WAAAY too little money ended up making you a lot if it became a hit?

There is a lot at stake here for all creative artists. Please support the bill and spread the word and educate others.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossal View Post
nobody is saying that. they're announcing obamas "support".
yeah sorry my 'tone' was prob a little harder than what i meant. Ive just had a LOT of comments lately from people making out that this is some new initiative of the present administration. I just like to point out to people who aren't aware, the hard work and endless hours many people have put into this for the past few years. Im very happy that this is finally getting more momentum from 'on high'.
I for one think it is a good idea.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJamesGoody View Post
The flip side is that radio is basically ineffective these days,
Not true. As co-owner of a major distributed label the radio opens up new and previous markets for paid shows, awareness, touring, etc.

As for OP. good job Obama
Old 2nd April 2010
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgilboe View Post
Musicians who play on tracks will get paid. If a song is a smash it can add up. A keyboardist I know who played keys on a top 5 hit across Europe received almost $20,000 in Radio Performance royalties. (I guess they missed that he was American...) He didn't write or produce, and his fee for the work was only about $2,000 for the initial session.
Yes, I'm receiving money for records I played on.
Often my initial fee was small, but I've received rolling income from PAMRA (then PPL) for years.
It hasn't stunted radio in the UK.
People involved in music should applaud this, not carry on like it's the end of the world.
You can research this site to see how successfully it works in the UK:
PPL : Home
Old 2nd April 2010
  #23
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Gotta be kidding.....

This is just one more way of this administration squeezing money out of people who should be keeping it. A friend of mine who runs a tanning salon just found out she has to charge a new 10% tax on tanning services (hidden in health care bill...a lot more will surface quickly). Obama said he "won't increase our income taxes by one thin dime"... as he shrewdly finds many "back doors" to funnel $$ from. Another friend in NY will be paying a 15% "sugared soda" tax soon. Spread the wealth. Seize the radio stations next. Where will it end?

Welcome to the United Socialist States. Good luck..... comrades!
Old 2nd April 2010
  #24
Makes sense to me. Even the college and so-called "independent" radio stations are mostly Pacifica or NPR network entities these days. Two stations I used to DJ on - KCSB and WESU - are no longer free-format (If I'm not mistaken WESU was the first and longest-operating free-format station in the US).
Old 2nd April 2010
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrasound View Post
This is just one more way of this administration squeezing money out of people who should be keeping it. A friend of mine who runs a tanning salon just found out she has to charge a new 10% tax on tanning services (hidden in health care bill...a lot more will surface quickly). Obama said he "won't increase our income taxes by one thin dime"... as he shrewdly finds many "back doors" to funnel $$ from. Another friend in NY will be paying a 15% "sugared soda" tax soon. Spread the wealth. Seize the radio stations next. Where will it end?

Welcome to the United Socialist States. Good luck..... comrades!


Just when I thought people were having a grown up conversation for once.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konkaos View Post
Not true. As co-owner of a major distributed label the radio opens up new and previous markets for paid shows, awareness, touring, etc.

As for OP. good job Obama

I suppose you're right with regard to some markets.

Where I am, there is one independent station, and the rest are CC. The playlist is basically Top40 only. As a qualifier, I listen only rarely because there is simply no good content, at least where I am. Top 40 drivel typically.

That's why I'm on the fence about this bill. The sad reality is that European markets are simply different than they are here. When people talk about the effectiveness of this system model in Europe, it just doesn't seem to readily apply here.

We can't manage things in this country without a profit motive, and that's why a part of me believes that this will hurt the small guys more than it will benefit the other small guys. Our economy is rigged that way, sadly.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #27
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This is good news for internet radio (sort of) who has had to unfairly pay this way for years now. Not good news in the sense that it helps them any, but at least things wouldn't be blatantly unfair anymore.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #28
TYY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aclarson View Post


Just when I thought people were having a grown up conversation for once.
Your forgot to quote the otherr childish and asinine post in this thread. Maybe because you agreed with it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Addict View Post
Using that logic, why should we ever change anything?!?

Just like gays in the military, universal health care, and gay marriage, it is now time that the US caught up with the rest of the civilized world. We kid ourselves thinking that we are the leaders in ANYTHING (except obesity and illiteracy).

Other countries have rightfully done this for years. Congrats to Obama on this.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJamesGoody View Post
The sad reality is that European markets are simply different than they are here. When people talk about the effectiveness of this system model in Europe, it just doesn't seem to readily apply here.
We can't manage things in this country without a profit motive
How is it different in Europe?
People like to make money/profit in the UK too. Musicians like a chance to share in the success of the music they play on.
Doesn't seem that different to me.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #30
Just another way the government is trying to limit the free market. This will obviously make it more expensive for radio stations to operate, limit job growth, make advertising more expensive, and make it so much harder for independent stations to operate.

Expect to hear less music and more commercials. Why? How else do you think radio stations are going to pay for this new tax.

Here's the devil's advocate: National Association of Broadcasters
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