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Best ways to spend $10K to advertise? Multi-Ef­fects Plugins
Old 24th March 2010
  #1
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Darwin James's Avatar
 

Best ways to spend $10K to advertise?

I have created a quality album that can sell. I don't want the album to disappear into obscurity because no one knew it (and I) existed. I'm also a one man team trying to compete.

I'm considering selling my motorcycle and using the 10K to push my album.

What would be some effective ways of building my buzz? I've promoted in magazines, websites, radio stations before, not pleased with the ROI in these mediums (granted that was for a different release).
Old 24th March 2010
  #2
well I guess it depends on your goals and expectations. Are you trying to sell music? CDs? Itunes Downloads? Get views up on MySpace and YouTube for audience building?

Judging from your myspace page, which then directs to you personal web page these are my thoughts...

1) You need to be everywhere - I'd have a robust presence at MySpace, Facebook, and YouTube. BE DISCOVERABLE.

2) I would only make song snippets available at each site with the possible exception on one or two songs. always back announce each song snippet - "hi I'm Darwin James, if you liked this song you can stream the full song at _______ or buy it at itunes, Thank You for Your Support!".

3) I would create an "album preview" video for a dedicated youtube page - the album preview video would be 30 seconds of each song on the album, in sequence with a slide show of some kind. You may also want to make each song available on youtube as a 30, 60 90 second preview - you want to be DISCOVERED via as many KEY WORD searches as possible and as a new artist people need to be able to HEAR your music easily and accessibly.

4) I'd seriously look at how to use Google Ad Words (there is a reason they are a $750 Billion Dollar Company), and YouTube advertising - for example - buy clicks not impressions - at least then you know exactly how many consumers you've driven to a specific destination like itunes.

If you buy 50,000 clicks to you album on itunes and you sell 55 copies - that tells you something - like wise if you drive 50,000 clicks to your itunes page and you sell 500, or 5,000 albums or songs... well, you get the idea.

Maybe you want to drive clicks to a YouTube page w/ a music video, that also in turn as a link to Itunes?

5) From your YouTube, Facebook and MySpace pages talk to your fans directly - do a weekly webcam/update on YouTube every week - talk about the making of a different song from the album a week (in less than 3 minutes each). That might be a good place to start - let your fans (or potential fans) get to know you as a person and an artist.

6) check out
Mobile Roadie - iPhone and Android Apps for Everyone
they have a drag/drop template to make iphone and android apps that access your online feeds. I think the apps are $500 to set up and $10 a month to maintain - one you have your free app out there, you can also use it to up sell into premium content.

here are some other suggestions:

Quote:
#1 - don't give away the exact thing you're are trying to sell, duh.

#2 - talk to your fans - directly - songs are not the only thing a band can put online to promote themselves. see below.

#3 - "pollute" the free stuff so that it's not worth as much as the premium product - ie - make audio files 90 seconds long (or less) and back announce the songs "thanks for listening, if you like this song you can buy it at itunes"

#4 - youtube videos should have at least 30 seconds of a band intro before the music video begins, and there should also be a band back announcement at the end - with some educational awareness about artists rights

#5 - speaking of artists rights - artists have the audience, they should be the educators and ambassadors to general public about the value of music and the role of producers, engineers and all the people that contribute to the art of recorded music

#6 - don't make any full length music or video available without being compensated in someway - especially true for myspace, and pretty much for youtube. If you believe in the streaming music model, than make your music available there, and not MySpace. MySpace pays zero, but sells ads based on your audience.

#7 - use the "free content sites" (myspace, youtube, and the like) for promotional clips, edits, band interviews, demos, live recordings, etc. These sites are built around advertising using the bands content as the draw - flip that on it's head - make ads for the band, as the content!

#8 - find creative ways to promote your project... why isn't there a band as big as sxephil on youtube by doing daily videoblogs and commentary?

#9 - don't impose old media rules on new media - ie - making an expensive music video and putting it on youtube is probably the least effective thing an artist can do to try and sell music (see all the reasons above)

#10 - keep trying new ideas. keep looking for ways to make money.

if you can make money, making music - you might not have to do anything else to pay the bills. wouldn't that be cool! music as a fulltime gig - but that won't happen if there's no revenue model, and no return on investment.
I hope some of this info is helpful to you.
Old 25th March 2010
  #3
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narcoman's Avatar
 

hey

did you do the promo yourself? 10k aint a lot in the USA - if you were over here you could do something with that money...smaller country helps!!

I'd be getting on board with a decent PR agent... BUT dont go to the big mainstream. You cant compete with the mega bucks... look for someone in a related niche area for yer tunes....
Old 25th March 2010
  #4
mixmixmix
Guest
1. PR agent
2. Make a video of yourself rapping (live audience or studio) and post on youtube, vimeo etc.

good luck
Old 25th March 2010
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
I have created a quality album that can sell. I don't want the album to disappear into obscurity because no one knew it (and I) existed. I'm also a one man team trying to compete.

I'm considering selling my motorcycle and using the 10K to push my album.

What would be some effective ways of building my buzz? I've promoted in magazines, websites, radio stations before, not pleased with the ROI in these mediums (granted that was for a different release).
Save your $$ dude..You seem like a good guy but I think a dose of reality is what might be best for you.

I will share this link with you. This guy is a Christian rapper, probably gross's low 6 figures a year with everything combined. It took him what, 10 years or so to get to where he is through relentless grinding. He's 31 now I think. Look at his hits, his tour dates and listen to his music.

Then be realistic with yourself and put forth an unbiased opinion of your own music and where you are at.

Manafest on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

This guy does A LOT of shows around the globe, but he didn't buy his way in or toss $10K at hopes of breaking it. He put the work in from an organic level building up to where he is. His music is pretty modernish and mainstream sounding, dancey and catchy. I am also assuming he networks like a mofo and is a social demon. Many awards and has built a solid resume, that is what you have to do.

I am not one to dash dreams, but it may be time for some harsh realities. Your in your late 30's, and you seem to be starting at the bottom again. That's a tough one man.

If it makes you feel any better fame means nothing. In the end nothing really matters. I know with your new found faith you won't believe any of this but humans will go the way of the dinosaur and your legacy will mean nothing to anyone. People knowing of your existence is not what life is about nor does it make the man.

Enjoy whatever life you are blessed with and stop worrying so much about this fame thing you seem so crazy for. I mean really what huge contribution are you making to society, as a christian rapper, that deserves this massive recognition of greatness?? Be happy you have spent a majority of your life doing something you obviously enjoy. Many, many people dream to be so lucky. Maybe go spend some time in a third world country where their happiness is astounding considering their quality of life. The bloody western societies have you so amped up on being God, or believing in him I guess

Its a long haul and a slow build. Your best bet is to use that loot as a safety fund, and start building your resume with the goal of eventually being a headline act, this is done not through big marketing pushes, but steady ground work one fan at a time...

Good Luck and let us know how you make out.
Old 25th March 2010
  #6
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Darwin James's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

You are right. I am at the tail end of a career as a rap artist. I will do what I should have done in the beginning, trust God.
Old 25th March 2010
  #7
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mdjice's Avatar
 

Hey James, I got the CDs thanks !! I have been swamped but I will definitely give it a listen in the studio very soon!
as far as promo, 10K is a LOT of money...but not much for what you want to achieve, get yourself a street team, friends, family, college kids who like your music etc... and get them to do some internet marketing, they should post on forums, create blogs, do banners etc... if you get like 10 people doing that a couple of days a week you will get some great ranking in search engiines and will get more exposure. Do shows, FREE shows an arena or a bar it doesn't matter people get more personal with the artists when they get to see the show live and to talk to you after the show and take pics, have cds, flyers and t shirts ready. You can also try hiring a "radio guy" who has connects with a lot of radios and for a fee will get your song played in different market but if I remember well the starting fee for PRO is about 20 to $30K.
what you could do also with 10K is try to get a featuring from an artis with a name, fame by association Works!!
for example if someone type their favorite artist on itunes or google and u have a feature with them you will show up and they will want to hear what you got since if a "famous artist" did a song with you, then u must be good, it's stupid but thats how most fans will think.
anyways good luck with the album!
Old 25th March 2010
  #8
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You can't trick people to like your stuff. If they don't watch your videos again and again, it's because they don't care about them.

Write some new songs.
Old 25th March 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios View Post
2) I would only make song snippets available at each site with the possible exception on one or two songs. always back announce each song snippet - "hi I'm Darwin James, if you liked this song you can stream the full song at _______ or buy it at itunes, Thank You for Your Support!".
I agree with a lot of what you say -- but I think the 'support' part is suicidal. Ever heard Ke$ha talk like that?

You support homeless cats, not superstars...
Old 25th March 2010
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
I agree with a lot of what you say -- but I think the 'support' part is suicidal. Ever heard Ke$ha talk like that?

You support homeless cats, not superstars...
I don't know - when bands play live they often thank the audience for showing up. I think gratitude is becoming important for artists as buying music is completely voluntary - ie, they can get it for free if they want.

so perhaps each artists should find a way the expresses gratitude in a way that is sincere to them, but I think especially these days, gratitude is important.

maybe it's just "thank you"
Old 25th March 2010
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios View Post
buying music is completely voluntary - ie, they can get it for free if they want.
But do we wish to remind them of that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios View Post
maybe it's just "thank you"
I believe in: Thx baby...
Old 25th March 2010
  #12
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Darwin James's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
Hey James, I got the CDs thanks !! I have been swamped but I will definitely give it a listen in the studio very soon!
as far as promo, 10K is a LOT of money...but not much for what you want to achieve, get yourself a street team, friends, family, college kids who like your music etc... and get them to do some internet marketing, they should post on forums, create blogs, do banners etc... if you get like 10 people doing that a couple of days a week you will get some great ranking in search engiines and will get more exposure. Do shows, FREE shows an arena or a bar it doesn't matter people get more personal with the artists when they get to see the show live and to talk to you after the show and take pics, have cds, flyers and t shirts ready. You can also try hiring a "radio guy" who has connects with a lot of radios and for a fee will get your song played in different market but if I remember well the starting fee for PRO is about 20 to $30K.
what you could do also with 10K is try to get a featuring from an artis with a name, fame by association Works!!
for example if someone type their favorite artist on itunes or google and u have a feature with them you will show up and they will want to hear what you got since if a "famous artist" did a song with you, then u must be good, it's stupid but thats how most fans will think.
anyways good luck with the album!
Mickael, thank you again for buying my album. I look forward to your thoughts on it.

I appreciate all the information put forth in the thread. I need to assess and digest it.
Old 25th March 2010
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios View Post
I don't know - when bands play live they often thank the audience for showing up. I think gratitude is becoming important for artists as buying music is completely voluntary - ie, they can get it for free if they want.

so perhaps each artists should find a way the expresses gratitude in a way that is sincere to them, but I think especially these days, gratitude is important.

maybe it's just "thank you"
I completely agree. Unless you are trying to be a hardcore gangsta rapper that doesn't care about anyone or anything, or an elusive, eccentric artist (think Thom Yorke), I think it would serve you better to appear grateful and approachable... at least as an up-and-coming artist.
Of course, once you hit the big time, you can be the biggest ass in the world. heh
Old 25th March 2010
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsandman View Post
Of course, once you hit the big time, you can be the biggest ass in the world. heh
Why wait?

Start on top (and stay there)!
Old 26th March 2010
  #15
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petermichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Id Ridden View Post
Save your $$ dude..You seem like a good guy but I think a dose of reality is what might be best for you.

I am not one to dash dreams, but it may be time for some harsh realities. Your in your late 30's, and you seem to be starting at the bottom again. That's a tough one man.

If it makes you feel any better fame means nothing. In the end nothing really matters. I know with your new found faith you won't believe any of this but humans will go the way of the dinosaur and your legacy will mean nothing to anyone. People knowing of your existence is not what life is about nor does it make the man.

Enjoy whatever life you are blessed with and stop worrying so much about this fame thing you seem so crazy for. I mean really what huge contribution are you making to society, as a christian rapper, that deserves this massive recognition of greatness?? Be happy you have spent a majority of your life doing something you obviously enjoy. Many, many people dream to be so lucky. Maybe go spend some time in a third world country where their happiness is astounding considering their quality of life. The bloody western societies have you so amped up on being God, or believing in him I guess

Its a long haul and a slow build. Your best bet is to use that loot as a safety fund, and start building your resume with the goal of eventually being a headline act, this is done not through big marketing pushes, but steady ground work one fan at a time...

Good Luck and let us know how you make out.
Dude I have yet to listen to your music, but before I do, I have to disagree with what this cat is saying to you.

Here's some choice crapunka, isolated out so it can be exposed for what it is.

1. Fame means nothing
2. Nothing really matters
3. Your legacy will mean nothing to anyone

If you believe these things please don't do any Christian rapping, or any flow of any sort for that matter. Society cannot benefit from you if you are feeling this way, and that's not the way you come across firing off a thread about selling a motorcycle and putting 10k into getting your message out. I say if you are getting REAL positive feedback and growth on your own, then break out the bills and pursue (obviously in a smart, strategic way - do i have to say that?)

put one crab in a bucket of water, he easily escapes
put any more than one in the bucket and they grab on to each other, and then none can escape.

watch out for the crabs in the bucket

this fellow may have been meaning well, but nonetheless.

1. fame? how about making your living sharing your faith with as many as possible.
2. nothing really matters? then just stay in bed tomorrow
3. legacy not important? got family? GOT KIDS?

now i'm going to go have a listen, but either way, do your thing.

advice wise, red gives the best advice, the only disagreement i have with him is all the teasing he suggests, but it has it's place. i think though you are more interested in just getting the message out, financial returns are trumped by "other" returns. i would say pick up a copy of guerrilla marketing on the internet(this will not just help you plan your attack, but will also cause you to self examine what it is you are doing, and how to refine and improve it), and devise a thorough plan for what you are "selling" and don't spend a dime until you have your myspace, youtube, twitter, & facebook up and running with good graphics and content, all linked to each other, and all linked towards a site you can sell your music. that's the machine that will field whatever traffic your marketing yields. then put all 5 talents into the internet, be a good and faithful servant, and see what happens.

exciting stuff.
Old 26th March 2010
  #16
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petermichael's Avatar
 

i was only able to hear one song, the horse with no name sample is hot. i would say the flow was average, perhaps due partly to the slow tempo. it showed a song playing (eq bouncing) in the upper player, but no sound.
Old 26th March 2010
  #17
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petermichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios View Post
Google ....(there is a reason they are a $750 Billion Dollar Company),

#1 - don't give away the exact thing you're are trying to sell, duh.
Well you didn't combine these two statements, you do believe them both.

I feel it's the main flaw in your argument.

Google gives away everything prior to making money from it. You may say not a fair comparison, but I say it's an essential comparison.
1. Doing something for free, and losing 10,000 in revenue, is the same as -
2. Charging for your music fully, and then spending 10,000 on advertisement.

There is a theoretical loss of 10k with either one. I make no claims as to knowing what the outcome will be either way. There are too many variables.

Most people don't have 10k available for it so they must give a little in the onset
Old 26th March 2010
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petermichael View Post
Dude I have yet to listen to your music, but before I do, I have to disagree with what this cat is saying to you.

Here's some choice crapunka, isolated out so it can be exposed for what it is.

1. Fame means nothing
2. Nothing really matters
3. Your legacy will mean nothing to anyone

If you believe these things please don't do any Christian rapping, or any flow of any sort for that matter. Society cannot benefit from you if you are feeling this way, and that's not the way you come across firing off a thread about selling a motorcycle and putting 10k into getting your message out. I say if you are getting REAL positive feedback and growth on your own, then break out the bills and pursue (obviously in a smart, strategic way - do i have to say that?)

put one crab in a bucket of water, he easily escapes
put any more than one in the bucket and they grab on to each other, and then none can escape.

watch out for the crabs in the bucket

this fellow may have been meaning well, but nonetheless.

1. fame? how about making your living sharing your faith with as many as possible.
2. nothing really matters? then just stay in bed tomorrow
3. legacy not important? got family? GOT KIDS?

now i'm going to go have a listen, but either way, do your thing.

advice wise, red gives the best advice, the only disagreement i have with him is all the teasing he suggests, but it has it's place. i think though you are more interested in just getting the message out, financial returns are trumped by "other" returns. i would say pick up a copy of guerrilla marketing on the internet(this will not just help you plan your attack, but will also cause you to self examine what it is you are doing, and how to refine and improve it), and devise a thorough plan for what you are "selling" and don't spend a dime until you have your myspace, youtube, twitter, & facebook up and running with good graphics and content, all linked to each other, and all linked towards a site you can sell your music. that's the machine that will field whatever traffic your marketing yields. then put all 5 talents into the internet, be a good and faithful servant, and see what happens.

exciting stuff.
Hey man.

I was trying to be more psychiatric/philosophic with that post based on many, many posts of Darwin's I have read in the past. I may be completely incorrect about Darwin, but it is what it is.

I do tend to be a bit jaded sometimes and opinions differ from person to person, I just want Darwin to make the best decisions and proceed forward for the right reasons, that is all.

He has stated before his dream is to be signed to Def Jam if my memory serves me correctly. That is not what matters in this life. Making real connections is. Darwin is better to connect personally with 1000 fans and truly try and share himself with them intimately then to be broadcast to millions in some diluted marketed way.

I do stand by what you isolated out, I am sorry you believe it to be crapunka, but that is your opinion.

Fame is not everything. That means if you do not attain it, you are quite alright and does not mean that you are less of a man then someone who does. It also means that attaining fame should not be anyone's sole goal.

Nothing really matters. It doesn't but it doesn't mean stay in bed. It means that in the long run the chances of humans being wiped out is very good, therefore feel free to continue on, don't let anything keep you down and don't let what happens to you in this life dictate your happiness. If you do not become well known to the World, it isn't the end of the World. You have touched people already, look at these things.

Legacy means nothing. It doesn't. If you believe it does then you are probably insecure and egotistical. It is also very subjective based on in the current, the media and what the mainstream deems to be important. Do your work and let it live on, but don't do it because you want to be known forever as some God. Maybe someone is just too far ahead of their own time, maybe it will come late. You do not know.

As a christian rapper the goal has to be to connect with people no? To try and share your beliefs with those who choose to listen...not to be Jesus.

Anyways Darwin, focus on the right things, make sure you are doing everything for the right reasons and definitely check out Manafest. hint: check where he plays, the shows he does, who he works with, his fans etc. His target market is sort of like your target market.
Old 26th March 2010
  #19
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In all honesty, I think you're focusing on the entirely wrong thing. No matter how much marketing you do, you will still likely be an artist without a market.

You are a talented rapper, but rap music isn't just about being able to put together clever rhymes. It's mostly about having or telling a story people can relate to. From what I've heard and read from you and your site, you are essentially trying to tell a story of "religious redemption".

The problem with this is you don't want to market to the Christian market (and they probably wouldn't want you anyway because they tend to favor more happy-go-lucky messaging), and the mainstream market doesn't generally want much to do with religion.

So even just from that, you are stuck trying to crack into a market that essentially doesn't exist.

The only successful mainstream artists I am aware of who have maintained Christian messaging have done so only tangentially or with subtle references here or there. They don't make it the centerpiece of their work and life story.

Does that mean you have to change who you are? No. But maybe it does mean this isn't the right path for you. Either way, I definitely think your odds would be better if you looked at how other mainstream artists have approached the topic of religion first, and tried to see from that what works and doesn't.

The other handicap against you is obviously your age, whiteness, and minimal 'sex appeal'. Most artists break out in their teens, early 20's, or at latest late 20's. Also, despite the success of a guy like Marshall Mathers (who was not only young, talented, hard working, and good looking, but also had Dr. Dre to help him) rap is still primarily a black genre (with some overlap perhaps into hispanics due to soca influences).

Basically: you have the rapping and writing talent, but your messaging, story, and identity is relatively unmarketable. When you add in the fact that the major industry is at it's most dismal level ever, your chances go down even further.

This is exactly what majors have been dealing with for years. This is why the failure rate of major-released projects is so high and so many get shelved. "Getting it right" isn't just about one little thing (being able to assemble a clever rhyme, for example). It's the confluence of so many variables - many of which are beyond an individual's control.

I think you could have a quite prolific career as a ghost writer, but I don't think you'd want to, and given again the state of the industry, I don't think you'd get much financially out of it if you did. Other than that, I'm not sure. There might come a time sooner or later to re-evaluate your priorities and goals.

I'm not trying to be a dick, and I'm sorry if it comes off that way. I'm not coming at you from on high or anything either. I'm just trying to be honest, because that's the only kind of advice that is often worth anything in the end.
Old 26th March 2010
  #20
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Darwin James's Avatar
 

You gentlemen may post freely. Don't worry if you feel giving me a "dose of reality" from your perspective will hurt my feelings or forward progress. I follow a path of my own, dictated by God. I simply seek advice on building a buzz. As it's true I am working with a brand new stage name with this album, which is like starting fresh. I have been making music for a number of years, anyways. My target market is 20's to late 40's. Even though kids seem to think i'm cool.

What is true also is that all cards are against me, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I do intend to release one MAYBE two albums after this in this genre. We will see what happens.

A great method posted thus far was to observe what is working for other artists. Another man's success cannot dictate what I do of course, but it is good to see what is working. This I will do.

Some on point observations offered, some miss pretty wide. There is a massive market for my music, it's called anyone who likes quality. A plus is that a large percentage of my fans don't even like rap, but they like mine. There is significant crossover appeal.

One should ask, how many artists in the history of this industry (and other industries) were told there wasn't a market for them or any segment of people that will like and purchase their music, you are screwed. The number would be pretty large would it not. I do my own thing.

Despite my acknowledged rough around the edges appearance, I get along well with fellow Christians. They accept me and my music quite openly. Just as people who are not Christians. I get along well with anyone. I don't care who you are. It's about telling genuine stories and being a nice guy. I don't step on folks either.

I make music for all people to find something redeeming in that relates to their life. Will every song touch someone? No, but there are those that do. Each song hits different people differently. One of the coolest things about music. I don't have the number one smash hit expensive studio sound and that is fine, because my songs are authentic as opposed to over produced. And the fact other people like my stuff too? That is so damn cool. Huge bonus! Would it be great to cut my songs in a big studio with awesome mics, in a controlled setting, with producers and everyone helping me like many other people have, sure, some day maybe, if not, not a problem. I am content with what I make. You make what you can given your current environment and resources. That is all an artist can do. I never will grow old and say I didn't give it my best shot. I can sleep well knowing I did and do and could die knowing I put my heart and soul into it.

Tell my stories and talk about what works for me. I create music for two reasons, 1) personal release and 2) to effect other people's lives. Music CAN effect/affect lives, this we know. This is the reason for wanting the world to hear my work. Like any artist. Who makes music to only play for themselves? Not me.

Fame? Never said I seek that. I seek to reach the multitude with the message, the truth, nothing more. Why create something and then stuff it away hidden in the attic? This isn't Egyptian treasure, this is music. Get it out, see what happens. That's exactly what I've been doing locally by the way. I've been putting copies in people's hands and making some sales online and it's being received very well. It's been 11 days since getting the CDs. And I add again, that I am quite thankful for the support. I am humbled by the folks that buy it. I really think I could have done a better job though. I hope to make a number of improvements on my future work.

For this album, I know I can multiply the response on a larger scale, and feel I could move trucks of units, and if I didn't, why press an album? So I am trying to figure out what is good and sticking ROI. The 10K initiative was being considered for an initial push, seed money per say.

I often forget that, God is in control. Which as a simple human I tend to do often.

Def Jam was more along the lines of wanting to play for the Yankees. It's a team/label that I grew up with. That is all. I am happy with what I can get that is sure. I am happy with what I have now to tell you the truth.

More specifically on topic, looking at this from a business angle, I am thinking perhaps hiring a PR rep to send the album around for music journalists to review for publications would be a good idea. Anyone have a good source?

Darwin Says...
Did I create something as awesome as a Door's album? No. Not by a long shot. But I created something true to me.
Old 26th March 2010
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by petermichael View Post
Well you didn't combine these two statements, you do believe them both.

I feel it's the main flaw in your argument.

Google gives away everything prior to making money from it. You may say not a fair comparison, but I say it's an essential comparison.
1. Doing something for free, and losing 10,000 in revenue, is the same as -
2. Charging for your music fully, and then spending 10,000 on advertisement.

There is a theoretical loss of 10k with either one. I make no claims as to knowing what the outcome will be either way. There are too many variables.

Most people don't have 10k available for it so they must give a little in the onset
petermichael -

respectfully, let's not go there...

google does not give away their IP, patents, technology or surrender the protections they are afforded under the law - hence their many lawsuits they have filed to protect their investments.

google isn't giving anything away except access to a search engine, which is monetized by advertising.

I also don't understand the conflict - even if he was still giving the music away there is a larger issue for brand building, and ultimately money get's spent to promote music and artists to build an audience.

part of the result of audience building is the sale of music. there is no conflict here. unless I'm misunderstanding you.

also - how does a person know that they've ONLY given away 10k in music? how do you know he's not paying 10k to sell 20k in music, therefore making 10k profit?
Old 27th March 2010
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
I follow a path of my own, dictated by God. I simply seek advice on building a buzz.
OK: Don't preach.
Old 27th March 2010
  #23
Lives for gear
 
petermichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
OK: Don't preach.
I have to listen to the pro Big Label diatribe around here daily.
If this cat wants to share his angle, I'm not complaining.
Old 27th March 2010
  #24
Lives for gear
 
petermichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicAndFilmGeek View Post
petermichael -

respectfully, let's not go there...

google does not give away their IP, patents, technology or surrender the protections they are afforded under the law - hence their many lawsuits they have filed to protect their investments.

google isn't giving anything away except access to a search engine, which is monetized by advertising.

I also don't understand the conflict - even if he was still giving the music away there is a larger issue for brand building, and ultimately money get's spent to promote music and artists to build an audience.

part of the result of audience building is the sale of music. there is no conflict here. unless I'm misunderstanding you.

also - how does a person know that they've ONLY given away 10k in music? how do you know he's not paying 10k to sell 20k in music, therefore making 10k profit?
the point i am making is that google is indeed giving away many things that people use, and making a KILLING on the back end with advertisements.

gmail
earth
maps
analytics
android
chromium

well selling music is not the same, there is always something to learn from others success, (as well as others failures).
Old 29th March 2010
  #25
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
My target market is 20's to late 40's.
Hi Darwin,
I would say before you plunk down any cash you narrow down this target market a little more. Who within this group is most willing to relate to you and your story? You know better than anybody, but I'm thinking of a few groups of people:
- Inner-city Christian teenagers. I think they might be able to relate to some of your harder edged lyrics better than say a 40 year old married choir leader.
- Ex-convicts. I'm guessing many ex cons can relate to much of your lyrical content.
- People that appreciate and seek out unique underground hip-hop.

I'm sure there are many more groups of people that would feel a connection to you and your music and deciding what specific type of people those are will help you focus your energy and money.
Old 29th March 2010
  #26
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
What would be some effective ways of building my buzz? I've promoted in magazines, websites, radio stations before, not pleased with the ROI in these mediums (granted that was for a different release).
Become a local figure. Get your name in the local papers so that people will recognize you when you walk down the street ( shouldn't be too hard ;-) ). Do lots of charity work. Talk about everything but yourself, but get to be known as a local guy who gives unselfishly.

Honestly, I think people just don't know what to do with you, Darwin. Is he a rapper? Is he a Christian? Is he an ex-con? Is he white? It's a lot of concept for one package. So let them know you're a person who cares and wants to share.

This isn't a $10k idea. It's a $0 idea. Well, there's gas and time. But $10k is plenty of gas.
Old 29th March 2010
  #27
Deleted User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
I have created a quality album that can sell. I don't want the album to disappear into obscurity because no one knew it (and I) existed. I'm also a one man team trying to compete.

I'm considering selling my motorcycle and using the 10K to push my album.

What would be some effective ways of building my buzz? I've promoted in magazines, websites, radio stations before, not pleased with the ROI in these mediums (granted that was for a different release).
reading thru the thread.. Red V gave you some GREAT input. go for it. not calling anyone out but if a chump can derail you... you are less than a chump .. the ONLY one that should call the game is you.

you asked for input about the process...WISE MOVE.. you did not ask if you should go for it...so go for it.

I may put a bit of Red's input in play as well
Old 30th March 2010
  #28
Lives for gear
 

You got your backing tracks. Add a GREAT drummer with a small kit (for ease of mobility and setup) and one other musician (maybe bassist or a multi-instrumentalist) and get out to play live, meet people, build relationships and a buzz. Play everywhere you can initially. They don't have to be full gigs. You can open for name acts or just do a small set if there are local jam nights that are any good. Make friends with college kids and find out what the real scene is and where to be. Find out any good charities doing fund drives and offer your services for free. Just get your name out there. Get to know the people who do the regional music listings magazines, all the radio people you can. Get to know them all personally to the point where you have a lot of mutual friends. It's easier than you think but you have to find the place (probably a bar or club) in your general area that is the place where everyone converges. That's really key in building some momentum, recognition and synergy but DON'T just get caught up in the trappings of a local scene. Use it as a starting point to build from.
Old 1st April 2010
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Id Ridden View Post
Save your $$ dude..You seem like a good guy but I think a dose of reality is what might be best for you.

...
I am not one to dash dreams, but it may be time for some harsh realities. Your in your late 30's, and you seem to be starting at the bottom again. That's a tough one man.

If it makes you feel any better fame means nothing. In the end nothing really matters. I know with your new found faith you won't believe any of this but humans will go the way of the dinosaur and your legacy will mean nothing to anyone. People knowing of your existence is not what life is about nor does it make the man.

Enjoy whatever life you are blessed with and stop worrying so much about this fame thing you seem so crazy for. I mean really what huge contribution are you making to society, as a christian rapper, that deserves this massive recognition of greatness?? Be happy you have spent a majority of your life doing something you obviously enjoy. Many, many people dream to be so lucky. Maybe go spend some time in a third world country where their happiness is astounding considering their quality of life. The bloody western societies have you so amped up on being God, or believing in him I guess
well, you must have touched a nerve to get flamed like that Id. me? i think you speak the truth.

of course fame means nothing. don't believe me? ask bill gates, ask bono. if being the biggest richest king of the castle meant a hill of freakin beans, why would people like that wake up in the morning and figure that their existence was basically worthless unless they'd done some major philanthropy (gates) or preaching, ducking and arm-twisting in service to a greater 'good' (bono)? they'll agree that being some narcissistic dude sat on a pile of gold is a long way away from meaning any ****ing thing.

they'll also agree that out there, in 'normal' land, there are millions of ordinary people quietly getting on with their lives and doing extraordinary things. musicians are delusional - it's virtually a job requirement. i'm no longer a full time musician - i'm no longer delusional - i'm 'disillusioned'. i mean that as a great and positive thing. why should seeing the truth and being divested of illusions be a bad thing? the scales have fallen from my eyes - hallelujah! heh

now i do a job that doesn't revolve around self-absorption and navel-gazing. it's great. much, much more interesting and socially useful than being a wannabe rock star. i work with people in acute need and truth be told, they're much more interesting than i ever was . now when i meet someone and they ask me what i do, they go 'wow! that's interesting, tell me more!' - not 'oh, should i have heard of you?'

the music industry is f*ucked. it was f*ucked before downloads and it's even more f*ucked now. save your $10k for something else Darwin. personally i wish i'd had a crystal ball and known at 18 that my time would have been far, far better spent learning how to be a professional poker player. sux huh?

the main hurdle that we need to overcome is switching identities. it's something most of us have to manage otherwise we just run out of road - i'm glad i did because i could have easily ended up like this guy:

BBC News - Sparklehorse singer Mark Linkous 'takes his own life'

volunteer. go into your community and help out. you'll discover skills you never knew you had. use that resourcefulness and channel it into a new positive path. people will need you - the world is full of real need. it's great to be needed! it's a much better ego boost than people liking your music.

the world doesn't really need more music. mine or yours, sorry dog - there's too much of the damn stuff already.

i used to live in a room full of mirrors
where all i could see was me
so i took my spirit and smashed those mirrors
now the whole world is there for me to see
Old 1st April 2010
  #30
A lot of varied and many off topic replies to a request on how best to spend $10k on self promotion.

Some observations from my 25 years in the business.

Some people chase fame/success and get it, some people chase fame/success and don't.

Some people don't chase fame/success and get it anyway.

I know quiet a few of these people that happened to be in the right place at the right time and were swept away on a tide of fame and success that they didn't ask for, didn't predict, and in many cases feel very guilty about - some sadly to the point of suicide.

It's all a gift.

My personal belief is the music is a spiritual quest. Chasing fame and monetary success is fine but I think that the process of making music and/or performing should be it's own reward.

It's no secret how difficult the music industry was to navigate at the best of times and today it's undoubtedly worse/harder (despite web 2.0 hype).

Which makes me wonder where all the Pro-Pirate/Anti-Copyright Web 2.0 evangelists are hiding out when a thread like this comes up (CwF+RtB).

Here's a guy with $10k to spend on developing himself... when it's real money people seem to get quiet.

So as much as I don't always agree with Darwin, his posts, and much of his outlook/perspective at times - I do support him having his own experience.

And to that end it would be great to get more feedback on how people actually would spend $10k to get the word out and build the brand of a music project as opposed to all the discouragement that comes from attempting to be a professional musician in the first place.
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