The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
DP 10 Announced!
Old 3rd February 2019
  #31
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Since watching a couple of videos on mixing I noticed a few producers used a MIX BUSS fader. So everything in the session goes to that fader eventually. Then that fader feeds the main mix out. Easy to grab, acts as trim.
BTW, I don't use Reaper but Cubase Pro has wonderful bounce options, any selection of track outs, etc. DP is pretty limited that way.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #32
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Since watching a couple of videos on mixing I noticed a few producers used a MIX BUSS fader. So everything in the session goes to that fader eventually. Then that fader feeds the main mix out. Easy to grab, acts as trim.
The reason to use a VCA over a mix buss is because of sends, VCA faders don't change the relation to sends like regular bussing does.

It's why I'm happy about VCAs. it's easy enough to get a solid mix and realize you didn't leave enough headroom to master the track.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #33
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
The reason to use a VCA over a mix buss is because of sends, VCA faders don't change the relation to sends like regular bussing does.

It's why I'm happy about VCAs. it's easy enough to get a solid mix and realize you didn't leave enough headroom to master the track.
No I use both (as did the producers in the video). The VCAS....indeed EVERYTHING...goes to the Mix Buss fader, then out from there to the Master Out.

Underestimate your levels (yes easy to do, even when trying to be conservative), pull Mix Buss fader down a tiny bit. Done.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #34
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
No I use both (as did the producers in the video). The VCAS....indeed EVERYTHING...goes to the Mix Buss fader, then out from there to the Master Out.

Underestimate your levels (yes easy to do, even when trying to be conservative), pull Mix Buss fader down a tiny bit. Done.
Why use a mix bus on everything rather than a VCA fader before the Master? Curious, because to me that's the brilliance of having nested VCA faders like DP 10 is getting.

It's not a big deal at the end like that, but every bus can introduce tiny amounts of latency, which a VCA fader obviously would not. I'm sure there's some reason I just don't know what it would be?
Old 3rd February 2019
  #35
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Why use a mix bus on everything rather than a VCA fader before the Master? Curious, because to me that's the brilliance of having nested VCA faders like DP 10 is getting.

It's not a big deal at the end like that, but every bus can introduce tiny amounts of latency, which a VCA fader obviously would not. I'm sure there's some reason I just don't know what it would be?
Well sure I could use a VCA "Mix Buss" fader, but it doesn't really matter. It's going to go through an AUX anyway before the MASTER 2 mix out, because that Master Aux is where all the 2 Mix processing goes, not on the Master fader itself.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #36
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Well sure I could use a VCA "Mix Buss" fader, but it doesn't really matter. It's going to go through an AUX anyway before the MASTER 2 mix out, because that Master Aux is where all the 2 Mix processing goes, not on the Master fader itself.
OK now I'm curious as to why you wouldn't put all the mix processing on the master fader? Always cool to hear about other people's workflow.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #37
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
OK now I'm curious as to why you wouldn't put all the mix processing on the master fader? Always cool to hear about other people's workflow.
Inserts on the master fader are post fader, so your whole mix can change as you do a fade out....
Old 3rd February 2019
  #38
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Inserts on the master fader are post fader, so your whole mix can change as you do a fade out....
Cool. You know that even the Master tracks have a pre/post fader line though?
Old 3rd February 2019
  #39
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Cool. You know that even the Master tracks have a pre/post fader line though?
You mean in DP the master inserts being post or pre fader is selectable? I'm actually speaking about PT.... where I usually mix...I'm just running the demo of DP right now...
Old 3rd February 2019
  #40
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
You mean in DP the master inserts being post or pre fader is selectable? I'm actually speaking about PT.... where I usually mix...I'm just running the demo of DP right now...
OK that explains a lot.
Yeah there's a little dot that turns into a line near the FX slots that puts the FX either pre or post fader. In my default configuration DP has them pre fader. That's a pretty big difference between the two DAWs.

It's on page 773 in the manual if you're interested.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #41
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
OK that explains a lot.
Yeah there's a little dot that turns into a line near the FX slots that puts the FX either pre or post fader. In my default configuration DP has them pre fader. That's a pretty big difference between the two DAWs.

It's on page 773 in the manual if you're interested.
Oh super, well that's smart!

Thanks for that...
Old 10th February 2019
  #42
Gear Head
 
e_waste's Avatar
 

I was so wrong to think DP10 was going to be a major update. It's DP10 and the drum tab still looks the same along with all the archaic plugins. Why don't these people update the GUI and modeling technology for some of these VST's? What could they possibly have to lose? But no. Still the same 18+ years on. The velocity bars are like 1 pixel in width and still nothing. MX4 still looks and sounds like 2003 and DP still does not have a Groove application. Integrate BPM perhaps (only if the update the GUI)? But I doubt it. So many areas of opportunity but we get Clip view. An Abelton rip off. WTF?!
Old 11th February 2019
  #43
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_waste View Post
I was so wrong to think DP10 was going to be a major update. It's DP10 and the drum tab still looks the same along with all the archaic plugins. Why don't these people update the GUI and modeling technology for some of these VST's? What could they possibly have to lose? But no. Still the same 18+ years on. The velocity bars are like 1 pixel in width and still nothing. MX4 still looks and sounds like 2003 and DP still does not have a Groove application. Integrate BPM perhaps (only if the update the GUI)? But I doubt it. So many areas of opportunity but we get Clip view. An Abelton rip off. WTF?!
Yeah, BS.
I get it, areas you aren't interested in were updated, but to say that DP hasn't been updated is total BS.

If Clips was the only thing in DP10 that's different I would agree with you, but that's not true at all. The Browser, Commands, Time stretching/Beat dection technology, Waveform Editor, VST3 support, MIDI editor updates, along with a resizable GUI and that's just off the top of my head... A lot has changed.

I'm honestly just amazed in general at how much people expect. Honestly owning Live 10 I was not that impressed with 10's update but I never went online and dogged on Ableton about it, and surprise surprise Ableton just announced a free 10.1 update that adds some really nice new features!
You know, kind of like how MOTU has done for at least the last three upgrade cycles???

Chicken Little Syndrome is real..
Old 11th February 2019
  #44
Gear Head
 
e_waste's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Yeah, BS.
I get it, areas you aren't interested in were updated, but to say that DP hasn't been updated is total BS.

If Clips was the only thing in DP10 that's different I would agree with you, but that's not true at all. The Browser, Commands, Time stretching/Beat dection technology, Waveform Editor, VST3 support, MIDI editor updates, along with a resizable GUI and that's just off the top of my head... A lot has changed.

I'm honestly just amazed in general at how much people expect. Honestly owning Live 10 I was not that impressed with 10's update but I never went online and dogged on Ableton about it, and surprise surprise Ableton just announced a free 10.1 update that adds some really nice new features!
You know, kind of like how MOTU has done for at least the last three upgrade cycles???

Chicken Little Syndrome is real..
Just frustrated. The last few DP9 updates where nice. But letting some of these features go unaddressed update after update gets annoying.
No shame about dogging them online, paid for many an update, along with a few pieces of hardware as well. So I think I am entitled to a certain level of bitching and moaning. At some point it would be nice if MOTU would change. Letting software just sit out there with few meaningful updates kinda sucks. I think they still have UNISYN on the site that isn't even Intel processor compatible. Seriously?
Old 11th February 2019
  #45
Lives for gear
x
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_waste View Post
Just frustrated. The last few DP9 updates where nice. But letting some of these features go unaddressed update after update gets annoying.
This is the problem with all software, I'm not joking. Go to any forum anywhere and someone is upset because some piece of software is missing some feature they care about. I wanted MPE and more bounce settings, I'm not upset about it because I see a lot of features that needed work being improved.
To the point about old plug ins, that's not how anyone works. Not even Apple with Logic, EXS24 looks exactly the same as it did 20 years ago. The rest of the program has modern features, but the plug ins are the same..

Quote:
No shame about dogging them online, paid for many an update, along with a few pieces of hardware as well. So I think I am entitled to a certain level of bitching and moaning. At some point it would be nice if MOTU would change. Letting software just sit out there with few meaningful updates kinda sucks.
I think the last four updates have had a ton of meaningful features added in. You're so angry you're talking about the little V's on the CC's in the MIDI editor windows, and you haven't paid attention to the fact that they now color the actual MIDI note with the CC velocity level. Logic for instance uses a simple key press plus drag on a note to directly alter the velocity of selected MIDI notes, it's one of the first things I thought about when I saw this was added to DP10, and if it's not like that in 10.0 I would be willing to bet that some improvement comes there in an update. Plus they did change the GUI, resizable means change, That's going to also affect the ability for folks to work with CC v lines.

Your list of things you want changed is not mine, I wanted true elastic audio for instance, we're getting that. In general most DAWs don't do everything I want them to. I gave up on one being "perfect" a long time ago, switching from DP to Logic, to Live plus Logic, to DP plus Live, to Maschine, to the MPC, adding Reaper in there etc.

I come back to DP often, now that it's doing Clips, has decent commands, resizable GUI, VST3 <-- resizable on their own, etc. I'm probably going to be staying in it even more. I mean if you're upset, take a look around, I have. The grass is not always greener. If you think it takes a while to get a solid workflow going in DP, try out Reaper. If you think the GUI has issues, try out Reaper or Live, try mixing 24+ tracks in those...

The new Commands menu is now probably better than any other for instance. Thinking "I wonder if DP has a key command for xyz??" well now if you enter in a portion of that command it will pop up, you select it and it fires that command. So you don't have to know the name, just something close like "Set selection by.... " I'm massively impressed with this, the closest to this in functionality is Reaper, and even that is a pop up window instead of a spotlight instant window.

Quote:
I think they still have UNISYN on the site that isn't even Intel processor compatible. Seriously?
They don't. I agree it took then too long to get rid of it though. Not a good look.
Old 11th February 2019
  #46
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
x
This is the problem with all software, I'm not joking. Go to any forum anywhere and someone is upset because some piece of software is missing some feature they care about. I wanted MPE and more bounce settings, I'm not upset about it because I see a lot of features that needed work being improved.
To the point about old plug ins, that's not how anyone works. Not even Apple with Logic, EXS24 looks exactly the same as it did 20 years ago. The rest of the program has modern features, but the plug ins are the same..


I think the last four updates have had a ton of meaningful features added in. You're so angry you're talking about the little V's on the CC's in the MIDI editor windows, and you haven't paid attention to the fact that they now color the actual MIDI note with the CC velocity level. Logic for instance uses a simple key press plus drag on a note to directly alter the velocity of selected MIDI notes, it's one of the first things I thought about when I saw this was added to DP10, and if it's not like that in 10.0 I would be willing to bet that some improvement comes there in an update. Plus they did change the GUI, resizable means change, That's going to also affect the ability for folks to work with CC v lines.

Your list of things you want changed is not mine, I wanted true elastic audio for instance, we're getting that. In general most DAWs don't do everything I want them to. I gave up on one being "perfect" a long time ago, switching from DP to Logic, to Live plus Logic, to DP plus Live, to Maschine, to the MPC, adding Reaper in there etc.

I come back to DP often, now that it's doing Clips, has decent commands, resizable GUI, VST3 <-- resizable on their own, etc. I'm probably going to be staying in it even more. I mean if you're upset, take a look around, I have. The grass is not always greener. If you think it takes a while to get a solid workflow going in DP, try out Reaper. If you think the GUI has issues, try out Reaper or Live, try mixing 24+ tracks in those...

The new Commands menu is now probably better than any other for instance. Thinking "I wonder if DP has a key command for xyz??" well now if you enter in a portion of that command it will pop up, you select it and it fires that command. So you don't have to know the name, just something close like "Set selection by.... " I'm massively impressed with this, the closest to this in functionality is Reaper, and even that is a pop up window instead of a spotlight instant window.


They don't. I agree it took then too long to get rid of it though. Not a good look.
Yes this is so true, trying to find one that is perfect (for me) has been a struggle. Cubase does everything I need, but doesn't do varispeed, which now DP will do with the new stretch audio. DP doesn't give me the bounce options PT and CB do.
PT does all of it but is not stable enough with VI's and VEPro.

Only CB has articulation maps (of the three). I don't consider Logic because I just don't like it much at all. I tend to produce straight ahead music, no rap, no heavy electronic, no loop based stuff. Manual tempo mapping is easiest for me in PT and CB, I am playing with it in DP but it has not been fun whatsoever

So I have PT Ultimate, CB 10, and will probably get DP just for the chunks feature (I sometimes do short videos with multiple cues) and the stretch audio. Will use the one that fits the job best at a given time. Nice to have options (though I do try to use key commands from one in the other and screw myself up pretty good from time to time lol).
Old 12th February 2019
  #47
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Yes this is so true, trying to find one that is perfect (for me) has been a struggle. Cubase does everything I need, but doesn't do varispeed, which now DP will do with the new stretch audio. DP doesn't give me the bounce options PT and CB do.
PT does all of it but is not stable enough with VI's and VEPro.

Only CB has articulation maps (of the three). I don't consider Logic because I just don't like it much at all. I tend to produce straight ahead music, no rap, no heavy electronic, no loop based stuff. Manual tempo mapping is easiest for me in PT and CB, I am playing with it in DP but it has not been fun whatsoever

So I have PT Ultimate, CB 10, and will probably get DP just for the chunks feature (I sometimes do short videos with multiple cues) and the stretch audio. Will use the one that fits the job best at a given time. Nice to have options (though I do try to use key commands from one in the other and screw myself up pretty good from time to time lol).
Yeah, I'm a DAW ***** for sure. DP, Reaper, MPC2, Live 10 Suite and Logic currently. Used Reason and Maschine in the past etc. I'm not willing to wait on a feature if it's available in a DAW I can pick up for under $400.

I'm fluent in all of them, I'm sure I'd be a Grand Wizard™ in one of them if I could stick to one, but it's not that far off anyway. If you can learn a new language you can learn a new DAW.

Lemme see if I can find the thread at Motunation on tempo mapping free recorded music. I remember it not being that bad in DP actually. I always thought that was a strong point for it.
Old 12th February 2019
  #48
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Yeah, I'm a DAW ***** for sure.
Lol! The place is called gearSLUTZ, but the word w h o r e is banned!
Old 12th February 2019
  #49
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Lemme see if I can find the thread at Motunation on tempo mapping free recorded music. I remember it not being that bad in DP actually. I always thought that was a strong point for it.
I wrote a large part of the FAQ on tempo mapping. It's something I've used for a long time and with great success.

The basic concept is you identify typically downbeats in your music and drag sequence bar-lines to those points. That creates a tempo map and you can then further manipulate the tempo of the recorded music.

As with any technique there are tricks and shortcuts to getting the most out of the function. Feel free to hit me with specific questions.

Dave
Old 12th February 2019
  #50
Old 12th February 2019
  #51
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Yeah, I'm a DAW ***** for sure. DP, Reaper, MPC2, Live 10 Suite and Logic currently. Used Reason and Maschine in the past etc. I'm not willing to wait on a feature if it's available in a DAW I can pick up for under $400.

I'm fluent in all of them, I'm sure I'd be a Grand Wizard™ in one of them if I could stick to one, but it's not that far off anyway. If you can learn a new language you can learn a new DAW.

Lemme see if I can find the thread at Motunation on tempo mapping free recorded music. I remember it not being that bad in DP actually. I always thought that was a strong point for it.
Hey thanks man, I do have a QT movie of it a MOTU Beta tester made for me showing how to do, so in theory I know how to do it, I just find it is very quickly. One thing weird is this...

In PT or Cubase, you have to put the file you are mapping into "Tick based" or "Musical Mode" ...that way when the bar lines change, that's all that changes, not where the music is. I can't see that DP has such as setting, so if I change the starting BPM (like the one bar of count in I allow...music starts on bar two..." ....if I change that at all the waveform MOVES as if it's not in musical mode. Very strange.
Old 13th February 2019
  #52
Gear Head
 
e_waste's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
x
This is the problem with all software, I'm not joking. Go to any forum anywhere and someone is upset because some piece of software is missing some feature they care about. I wanted MPE and more bounce settings, I'm not upset about it because I see a lot of features that needed work being improved.
To the point about old plug ins, that's not how anyone works. Not even Apple with Logic, EXS24 looks exactly the same as it did 20 years ago. The rest of the program has modern features, but the plug ins are the same..


I think the last four updates have had a ton of meaningful features added in. You're so angry you're talking about the little V's on the CC's in the MIDI editor windows, and you haven't paid attention to the fact that they now color the actual MIDI note with the CC velocity level. Logic for instance uses a simple key press plus drag on a note to directly alter the velocity of selected MIDI notes, it's one of the first things I thought about when I saw this was added to DP10, and if it's not like that in 10.0 I would be willing to bet that some improvement comes there in an update. Plus they did change the GUI, resizable means change, That's going to also affect the ability for folks to work with CC v lines.

Your list of things you want changed is not mine, I wanted true elastic audio for instance, we're getting that. In general most DAWs don't do everything I want them to. I gave up on one being "perfect" a long time ago, switching from DP to Logic, to Live plus Logic, to DP plus Live, to Maschine, to the MPC, adding Reaper in there etc.

I come back to DP often, now that it's doing Clips, has decent commands, resizable GUI, VST3 <-- resizable on their own, etc. I'm probably going to be staying in it even more. I mean if you're upset, take a look around, I have. The grass is not always greener. If you think it takes a while to get a solid workflow going in DP, try out Reaper. If you think the GUI has issues, try out Reaper or Live, try mixing 24+ tracks in those...

The new Commands menu is now probably better than any other for instance. Thinking "I wonder if DP has a key command for xyz??" well now if you enter in a portion of that command it will pop up, you select it and it fires that command. So you don't have to know the name, just something close like "Set selection by.... " I'm massively impressed with this, the closest to this in functionality is Reaper, and even that is a pop up window instead of a spotlight instant window.


They don't. I agree it took then too long to get rid of it though. Not a good look.
Come on. You know what I mean.
Old 13th February 2019
  #53
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_waste View Post
Come on. You know what I mean.
I know what you are saying, I just think you’re being unrealistic about this upgrade. Again we all have things we want, they will not be able to please all of us.
Old 13th February 2019
  #54
Gear Maniac
 
Dewdman42's Avatar
 

No it won't. I'm also not pleased enough to pay for this upgrade. I could care less about the clipping feature. It looks like they did a nice job on that if that's your cup to tea, maybe they will get some market share, and I like that they finally made the GUI scalable so that i could theoretically use it on my retina display. Aside from that...nothing in there is of interest to me and plenty of stuff I wish they would have fixed 10 years ago is still not fixed, changed or updated. And its a rather expensive upgrade on top of it all. I will be passing on this one, sorry motu.
Old 15th February 2019
  #55
The new stretch feature is working like a charm. The pitch shifting with the new algorithms is stellar sounding. I like the fast zoom in zoom out feature. Still new with the upgrade but so far its working as advertised.
Old 15th February 2019
  #56
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
The new stretch feature is working like a charm. The pitch shifting with the new algorithms is stellar sounding. I like the fast zoom in zoom out feature. Still new with the upgrade but so far its working as advertised.
How is the scalable GUI working?
Are you on Windows or a Mac?

Thanks!
Old 15th February 2019
  #57
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
The new stretch feature is working like a charm. The pitch shifting with the new algorithms is stellar sounding. I like the fast zoom in zoom out feature. Still new with the upgrade but so far its working as advertised.
Stretch feature not working whatsoever here...
Old 15th February 2019
  #58
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Stretch feature not working whatsoever here...
One of the features I haven't tried out yet, working my way to it.
Bizarre that it's not working at all for you while someone else is loving it though? sounds like some sort of conflict on your system?
Old 15th February 2019
  #59
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
One of the features I haven't tried out yet, working my way to it.
Bizarre that it's not working at all for you while someone else is loving it though? sounds like some sort of conflict on your system?
He might not be trying to do what I am...in PT or Logic I can put the tracks in vari speed mode and slow the reference down, record something difficult to play in at normal speed, then go back to locked tempo and all is good. Before 10 was released I was assured by MOTU that the new stretch feature would allow me to do this now in DP as well.

I have a separate thread here on "Stretch Not Working" or something...basically once an audio file that has been tempo mapped is put in stretch mode, it immediately loses sync with the click, long before I even try to change it's speed.
Old 15th February 2019
  #60
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
He might not be trying to do what I am...in PT or Logic I can put the tracks in vari speed mode and slow the reference down, record something difficult to play in at normal speed, then go back to locked tempo and all is good. Before 10 was released I was assured by MOTU that the new stretch feature would allow me to do this now in DP as well.

I have a separate thread here on "Stretch Not Working" or something...basically once an audio file that has been tempo mapped is put in stretch mode, it immediately loses sync with the click, long before I even try to change it's speed.
Weird? I'll read your other thread and see if I can't replicate it.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump