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DP 10 predictions DAW Software
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
DP 10 predictions

So MOTU almost always announce the next version of DP at Winter NAMM coming up in about two weeks, it's been three years since the announcement of DP9 which is a very standard amount of time for DAW upgrade announcements, even a little longer than normal for DP. My guess is DP 10 is cooked and in beta as we speak. MOTU are fairly predictable; announce new version at Winter NAMM and put it out in the next 3-6 months.

Guesses as to what improvements to expect go here!
I would guess:

A stronger built in sampler almost at MachFive 3 level.

Project management tools.

Possible object oriented MIDI in the Tracks and/or the Sequence Editor.

VCA faders

GUI overhaul in regards to fonts and other smaller on retina/4K monitor parts of DP.

What I want is MPE support and some other MIDI improvements like being able to limit the key range of MIDI track so you can do split keyboads etc.
but my guess is a new embedded instrument plug in and VCA fader support are the big selling points for the new version.

Anyway it's fun tossing these out there before the very likely announcement to see how close you came!
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Project management tools.

Possible object oriented MIDI in the Tracks and/or the Sequence Editor.

VCA faders

GUI overhaul in regards to fonts and other smaller on retina/4K monitor parts of DP.
UI scaling is most important to me. Lack of a PT style instrument tracks seems to get a lot of attention, so maybe something there (object oriented, i.e. MIDI regions/clips may push in that direction). VCA is a must these days and some sort of resource browser would be welcome. Avid is teasing already implemented DP features (channel strip EQ graphs), just wondering if something in the AAX spec allows all plug developers to participate. Still a lot of love for DP.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucks View Post
UI scaling is most important to me.
Yeah, that's one that would merit the long wait between versions this time. Not easy to redesign a GUI, that a lot of people including myself already like, to work better with bigger fonts etc.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Some good suggestions above........ I don't use DP as much as other DAWs but I have it and follow it's development with interest

I would personally add the need for faster than real time freezing

snap to absolute grid (I think DP still only allows relative grid snapping)

some sort of track selection indicator in the mixer (letting you know which track you've got highlighted in the project window)

quick ability to save multi-out instruments (other than using the clippings window)

and +1 to the single instrument track and VCA's.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoncel View Post
Some good suggestions above........ I don't use DP as much as other DAWs but I have it and follow it's development with interest

I would personally add the need for faster than real time freezing

snap to absolute grid (I think DP still only allows relative grid snapping)

some sort of track selection indicator in the mixer (letting you know which track you've got highlighted in the project window)

quick ability to save multi-out instruments (other than using the clippings window)

and +1 to the single instrument track and VCA's.
+ a million to all above. Especially the track selection indicator
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoncel View Post
Some good suggestions above........ I don't use DP as much as other DAWs but I have it and follow it's development with interest

I would personally add the need for faster than real time freezing

snap to absolute grid (I think DP still only allows relative grid snapping)

some sort of track selection indicator in the mixer (letting you know which track you've got highlighted in the project window)

quick ability to save multi-out instruments (other than using the clippings window)

and +1 to the single instrument track and VCA's.
Wasn't intended to be a suggestion thread, but I hear you, and I do think the Absolute grid thing is the next step, they finally did Mute MIDI notes so there's that. I hope they do MPE, absolute snap, and MIDI note range setting all in one fell swoop.

I use the Slate Raven for most of my mixing needs, and it highlights the selected tracks in the Raven mixer.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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Monkey Man's Avatar
I'd love to see "conventional" instrument tracks' being made an option, along with the ability to click a little "+" button on a VI's channel strip to quickly add additional output channels from it.

Machinesworking mentioned a capable sampler, and I agree, but of course there's also that humongous elephant in the room - the VI arsenal, apart from the addition of MX4, hasn't seen any new plugins since its introduction, and that was so long ago I can't even remember when it was now. DP5 I s'pose, and that was a loooong time ago.

I selfishly hope, just to save me the money as I have no such plugs yet, that a modern brass section (pop / funk etc.) and orchestra will somehow find its way into the collection. Failing that, and I've said this many times over at M'Nation, a well-endowed ROMpler-style VI that covers bread-and-butter requirements with aplomb would be freakin' awesome. Something like that would have users eyeing off their hardware units for sure, and also serve to attract new clientele who'd be encouraged by the prospect of an all-in-one music-making solution out of the box.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
I'd love to see "conventional" instrument tracks' being made an option, along with the ability to click a little "+" button on a VI's channel strip to quickly add additional output channels from it.
I've always thought that MOTU would have a huge issue with this because of V-Racks, because it would be a problem with moving VI's between V-Racks and the selected track, but! if the instrument track had the ability to fold in a MIDI track, in a layers Photoshop sort of way in that you could see and edit MIDI and track automation layers, then separating layers could happen, it's just that track automation would disappear if you did this. This already is an issue moving a VI from a track to a V-Rack though, so no new problems are happening..

Quote:
Machinesworking mentioned a capable sampler, and I agree, but of course there's also that humongous elephant in the room - the VI arsenal, apart from the addition of MX4, hasn't seen any new plugins since its introduction, and that was so long ago I can't even remember when it was now. DP5 I s'pose, and that was a loooong time ago.
Exactly why a Falcon style plug in makes sense, even more than M53, Falcon is very capable of Rompler style all in one synth ability! It really depends on how damaged UVI and MOTU's relationship is, if it's still amicable then IMO UVI really don't lose much allowing M53 to become integrated and updated with Falcon features as a plug in in DP X or 10 <-- Depending on whether MOTU goes for Logic or Live's naming of their number ten software!
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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Monkey Man's Avatar
Agreed on all counts.

As you suggested, there might be an issue with moving such VI tracks to VRacks, but I hadn't thought of that as I don't use them. We could be given the option to convert / revert such tracks to "standard" DP-style VI ones, thus separating the MIDI data from them, with the (MIDI) routing automatically configured via the operation. They could then be used in VRacks, obviously.

One thing I'd love the MachFive-style sampler to be able to do is... continue to read AKAI, EMU, EXS24, Kontakt and all the rest of the formats it supported. That feature alone would be a drawcard for new DP customers IMHO; it's after all one of the main reasons I went for M5 in the first place. Been holding out on Falcon 'cause I wanted to see for sure what MOTU might have up its sleeve, especially as I'd like to think it'd not want to leave we M5 users out in the cold forever. M5 v3 is still functional AFAIK and this fact may have been why MOTU's not told us anything about the possibility of a replacement, be it independent or included in DP.

I fear that if this situation doesn't become clearer or resolved with the announcement / arrival of DPX, it may never be, and that does my head in a bit. My entire AKAI & EMU lib from the '90s, for which I still have all the original CD's, has been set up for and mounts in M5 3 from my sample drive, and I don't want to ever lose access to it via a central, "go-to" sampler VI. I chose M5 over Kontakt, and have managed to ignore Falcon thus far 'cause it's not MOTU and lacks the universal-format-reading ability I require.

Sorry for the rant. Bottom line is we'd both like to see something decent find its way into DP!
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
I think MOTU theoretically could use their new expandable automation lane implementation as an example and have a VI be able to fold MIDI and automation into a single track, with the ability to switch between functions like Photoshop does layers of editing. If MOTU wanted to get bad ass about it they could allow some sort of "disabled" track automation to remain in a Sequence Chunk allowing a end user to work in other Sequence Chunks with Track automation until eventually consolidating them etc.

I'm not that worried or interested in a better built in sampler for DPX but I get that I'm not the majority, and most people want it. I own Kontakt, M53 and Falcon so I'm more than covered for samplers if I want to create my own, and MOTU would have to crack the code on both UVI and NI Kontakt to be able to offer a bigger library in their own sampler. That's why I mentioned them maybe not having a broken relationship with UVI, it would allow them to fold M53 into DP like they did MX4.
Old 5 days ago
  #11
Gear Addict
 
musicman691's Avatar
My hopes for DP10 (or DPX):
True instrument tracks - any daw that has them also still allows the old school way of separate MIDI and vi host tracks (I never use VRacks)
VCA faders
A less cluttered gui with bigger fonts
To go with the above - how about the ability to customize the consolidated window and remove tabs you don't want or need
Track numbers
Track freeze and commit ala PT12
User specifiable ram cache again ala PT12
Separate left and right pan controls (which PT has had for ages)
The ability to globally turn off pregen like in DP9.02 and earlier
Both solo and mute on aux tracks; there's only mute on aux tracks now
Easily accesible clip gain again like PT has had for ages
Multi mono plugins

What I don't want to see:
An included sampler (Mach Five 3 or such). Why? When MOTU included MX4 the gui was inexplicably small and impossible to use on a hi-res screen
More guitar oriented fx. Why? What MOTU included in DP9 sucks, to put it mildly. I never use what's there but strictly 3rd party plugs.

Given the above you may wonder why I even use DP? The answer is the MIDI capability is better in DP compared to PT. That being said I find mixing in DP to be a nightmare and do all that in PT.
Old 5 days ago
  #12
Gear Addict
 
musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post

Sorry for the rant. Bottom line is we'd both like to see something decent find its way into DP!
So would I but that won't happen because the old fuddy duddy crowd at Motunation has the ear bit time of Magic Dave and the rest of the people at MOTU. Why else do you think there's even a special dinner for MOTU put on by Jimmy Steele and the clicque? If they don't like it it won't make it into DP. I know when I dared to mention the want of true instrument tracks over there I got roasted like a cheap chicken on a spit. How dare I rock their boat and suggest there's another way of working in DP that quite a few would like to be able to use?

M53 is deader than a door nail - MOTU hasn't done any development on it that I know of in years.
Old 4 days ago
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Separate left and right pan controls

Both solo and mute on aux tracks; there's only mute on aux tracks now
Hello

I like the balance for stereo track (which is not the same as pan), but your right having the choices for dual pan is interesting, however I always have at least one Trim plug-in inserted per track, so if I need dual pan I do it from here.

Aux track have solo since decades...
But by default when you add aux track, the solo safe is activated so no solo button.
You just have to deactivate solo safe !

What I like at my side is:
Fader that can be scaled to +10
Better MCU/HUI driver with "true" real time communication

Best
Zam
Old 4 days ago
  #14
Gear Addict
 
musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
Hello

I like the balance for stereo track (which is not the same as pan), but your right having the choices for dual pan is interesting, however I always have at least one Trim plug-in inserted per track, so if I need dual pan I do it from here.

Aux track have solo since decades...
But by default when you add aux track, the solo safe is activated so no solo button.
You just have to deactivate solo safe !

What I like at my side is:
Fader that can be scaled to +10
Better MCU/HUI driver with "true" real time communication

Best
Zam
Searched the manual and there is no such thing as 'solo safe' in DP. Again this is one of those maddening things in DP - you have to use a work-around to get what other daws have by default right out in the open. Just like DP doesn't have by default true pan controls - you need to use a plugin. Like I wrote earlier - that's why I don't mix in DP.
Old 4 days ago
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Searched the manual and there is no such thing as 'solo safe' in DP. Again this is one of those maddening things in DP - you have to use a work-around to get what other daws have by default right out in the open. Just like DP doesn't have by default true pan controls - you need to use a plugin. Like I wrote earlier - that's why I don't mix in DP.
Search for "solo exempt", it's one of the main function available at track window !

Pan and Balance are two different things, both make sense depending of context.
Having Balance for stereo track as default is logical (at least for me), option for double pan can be good too, but only double pan as default will not be globally more practical...
I guess if I have dual pan I call for dual fader also...to have a real dual mono channel... which is not the same as stereo channel.
When I need real dual mono for any reason, I just use a stereo track routed to two mono aux, OR i just record the "stereo" material in two mono track.

HA ! another "wish"
-option to deactivate the sometime dumb interpolation of fader when grouped.
Like you keep relative gain constant in the whole scale and just limit at max (or min) if one go over range, and not reducing the amount of gain before reaching the top or bottom...

Best
Zam
Old 4 days ago
  #16
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
HA ! another "wish"
-option to deactivate the sometime dumb interpolation of fader when grouped.
Like you keep relative gain constant in the whole scale and just limit at max (or min) if one go over range, and not reducing the amount of gain before reaching the top or bottom...

Best
Zam
+1 !!!!


Carlos
Old 4 days ago
  #17
Gear Addict
 
musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
Search for "solo exempt", it's one of the main function available at track window !

Pan and Balance are two different things, both make sense depending of context.
Having Balance for stereo track as default is logical (at least for me), option for double pan can be good too, but only double pan as default will not be globally more practical...
I guess if I have dual pan I call for dual fader also...to have a real dual mono channel... which is not the same as stereo channel.
When I need real dual mono for any reason, I just use a stereo track routed to two mono aux, OR i just record the "stereo" material in two mono track.

HA ! another "wish"
-option to deactivate the sometime dumb interpolation of fader when grouped.
Like you keep relative gain constant in the whole scale and just limit at max (or min) if one go over range, and not reducing the amount of gain before reaching the top or bottom...

Best
Zam
Why didn't you say that about solo exempt to begin with and not use a term that's not in DP? Granted it's a term used in other daws but not DP.

Like you say balance and pan are two different things - they are nowheres near equivalent. Dual fader has nothing to do with this at all. A stereo track ruted to two mono tracks isn't even close to what is being talked about. Because DP's is a balance and not true pan you can't use that to fake a dual mono channel.
Old 4 days ago
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Why didn't you say that about solo exempt to begin with and not use a term that's not in DP? Granted it's a term used in other daws but not DP.
Because at the time I write the first post I don't remember the DP terminology.
Don't know about other DAW but "solo safe" is the generic name for this function...

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Like you say balance and pan are two different things - they are nowheres near equivalent. Dual fader has nothing to do with this at all. A stereo track ruted to two mono tracks isn't even close to what is being talked about. Because DP's is a balance and not true pan you can't use that to fake a dual mono channel.
Don't know what "true pan" is for stereo material in stereo mixing.
If you want to be able to handle all situation AB in to LR out, dual pan nor balance can do it.

if you want A and B full left but B 10db less, dual pan can't do it
if you want A and B equal level but at center, balance can't do it

(I mean you split the stereo in two mono (with pan to the mix bus), not summing the stereo two time in mono !)

Best
Zam
Old 4 days ago
  #19
Gear Addict
 
musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
Because at the time I write the first post I don't remember the DP terminology.
Don't know about other DAW but "solo safe" is the generic name for this function...



Don't know what "true pan" is for stereo material in stereo mixing.
If you want to be able to handle all situation AB in to LR out, dual pan nor balance can do it.

if you want A and B full left but B 10db less, dual pan can't do it
if you want A and B equal level but at center, balance can't do it

(I mean you split the stereo in two mono (with pan to the mix bus), not summing the stereo two time in mono !)

Best
Zam
To be able to do a true pan on a stereo signal you first have to narrow the width of the signal. Balance can't do that. All balance does it lessens either the right or the left signal - it doesn't actually move the signal around.
Old 4 days ago
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
To be able to do a true pan on a stereo signal you first have to narrow the width of the signal. Balance can't do that. All balance does it lessens either the right or the left signal - it doesn't actually move the signal around.
I know that...
I can also argue that "true pan" as you define it don't perform "true stereo" as it introduce cross talk (one of the purpose of dual pan for stereo material)
In fact both change the stereo field and LR perception.

My point is just to say that both have pro and cons, and having an option to select one or other can be good.
Sometime one need balance (which is default in DP)
Sometime one need dual pan, then you need to go with the plugin.
It will be the same other way. you need the plug to do what other can't do.

Still the stereo trim plug in DP allow all situation as you can pan L and R (linked or not for narrow or asymmetry) as set gain L and R (also linked or not) which no dual pan nor balance can do alone.

In fact I barely touch the DAW stereo track balance as I mix analogue... and my desk stereo channels have balance AND stereo width...The third route !

Best
Zam
Old 3 days ago
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Yawn. Not that it matters to any of you, but the point ofthis thread wasn't to compare features in DP to other DAWs or to make a wishlist. It was supposed to be a fun thread on what you think MOTU will do with DP 10, which again, I'm fairly certain will be announced at NAMM next Thursday.

For instance I own M53, Falcon and Kontakt so I don't really benefit from some sort of version of M53 making it's way into DP10, but there were hints that MOTU were working on some sort of more advanced embedded sampler plug in for DP in the future, so I included that.

Personally better bounce to disk selections are my #1 hope for DP 10, in Live and Logic, the other DAWs I'm very familiar with, there have been selections to bounce all tracks to separate audio files forever, and IMO it's the #1 time suck in DP for me. Everyone else mentions other things though, and I see it getting no traction so I didn't include it as a prediction.
Old 13 hours ago
  #22
Gear Nut
 
HugoRibeiro.Com's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Possible object oriented MIDI in the Tracks and/or the Sequence Editor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoncel View Post

I would personally add the need for faster than real time freezing

snap to absolute grid (I think DP still only allows relative grid snapping)

some sort of track selection indicator in the mixer (letting you know which track you've got highlighted in the project window)
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Track numbers
Track freeze and commit ala PT12
The ability to globally turn off pregen like in DP9.02 and earlier
Easily accesible clip gain again like PT has had for ages
All of these would be nice!
Also, be able to activate and deactivate all plugins in multiple selected tracks at once instead of having to ALT-click the top of the track one by one or instead of having to activate the MIX MODE function in the mixer.

cheers
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