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DP 10 predictions Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 3 weeks ago
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Amen brother - AMEN!

I don't know if I mentioned this in this thread or another but I got onto the DP wagon when PT started with their subscription model and PT12. I'd been interested in DP for quite a while and that was my chance to try it out. Like any new thing I understood there was a learning curve but I figured coming from Sonar and then ProTools that would give me a leg up. It did but not very far for a lot of the reasons you mention quite elegantly. Couple that with a user community that is less than helpful unless you know about the program to begin with (not to mention almost zero third party support) and it got frustrating.

I've never been afraid to try and learn new/different things but when they get to be a roadblock to what I want to get done then I have a lot to rethink.
Learning curves on DAWs are so freaking varied! It really depends on what you started on. I started with DP and Reason, so Cubase was easy to figure out. Logic was slightly harder, and Sonar was a total mystery to me... same with Reaper. Pro Tools wasn't so bad. Every DAW has something about it that's completely a matter of weird patching on of features.

Every DAW is a matter of swallowing some BS in order to get things done. Conversely compared to 15 years ago we all have it really easy! The BS in DP is slow improvements at a time when the industry is rapidly advancing. Cubase and Reaper are also logging in features left and right.

Logic? well I just spent 4+ hours sorting out whether I qualified for the educational Pro Apps bundle, then finding out that itunes Apple ID balances are not useable on the online Apple store where this bundle resides....
Old 3 weeks ago
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Learning curves on DAWs are so freaking varied! It really depends on what you started on. I started with DP and Reason, so Cubase was easy to figure out. Logic was slightly harder, and Sonar was a total mystery to me... same with Reaper. Pro Tools wasn't so bad. Every DAW has something about it that's completely a matter of weird patching on of features.

Every DAW is a matter of swallowing some BS in order to get things done. Conversely compared to 15 years ago we all have it really easy! The BS in DP is slow improvements at a time when the industry is rapidly advancing. Cubase and Reaper are also logging in features left and right.

Logic? well I just spent 4+ hours sorting out whether I qualified for the educational Pro Apps bundle, then finding out that itunes Apple ID balances are not useable on the online Apple store where this bundle resides....
Sorry you had to go through that with looking at buying Logic. I've contemplated that save for a couple of things: I run OSX 10.10.5 and the current version of Logic won't run on that as far as I can tell. And if I go to Sierra or High Sierra I lose PT and according what has come out of the current NAMM straight from the MOTU people is that DP9 still doesn't play well inside HS.

Now I don't expect each daw to work like every other one but basic things like VCA & true instrument tracks should be givens. That would help without having to learn workarounds to get similar functions. THAT I think is the kink in the learning curve.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #33
Gear Nut
 
KV626's Avatar
I still don't understand why it's so hard for MOTU to support AAF the *proper way*!!! Last week I had to check a recording session that was given to me in AAF. Well, no prolem there. Unfortunately I was in a studio at that time that was on DP. Well, no problem there, I'll just import the file in DP 9.51, just a couple of edits, nothing too serious, and then I'll make a new AAF that I'll import later in Pro Tools. DP was unable to even recognize the AAF file! Nothing. Drag and drop? Nope. From the File menu? Nope. This is sooo stupid. I lost about 2 hours before I could finally, and flawlessly open this file in Pro Tools.

Oh well...

These days, I'm using DP very sporadically, but everytime there's something that pisses me off.

As for Logic, 10.4 is an update so massive and impressive you'd almost want to make Apple a donation for it!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #34
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KV626's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Sorry you had to go through that with looking at buying Logic. I've contemplated that save for a couple of things: I run OSX 10.10.5 and the current version of Logic won't run on that as far as I can tell. And if I go to Sierra or High Sierra I lose PT and according what has come out of the current NAMM straight from the MOTU people is that DP9 still doesn't play well inside HS.
FWIW, PT 2018.1 is a very solid release. Now I don't know if you plan to get on the plan, but I'm happy I stayed current.

LPX 10.4 has the potential to be game changer for me though, if I ever get as fast and comfortable on LPX as I am on PT.

I learned how to use a sequencer with Performer 6 and DP 2.3 iirc...sadly, seeing how it performs today, I don't miss it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #35
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HugoRibeiro.Com's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KV626 View Post
I still don't understand why it's so hard for MOTU to support AAF the *proper way*!!! Last week I had to check a recording session that was given to me in AAF. Well, no prolem there. Unfortunately I was in a studio at that time that was on DP. Well, no problem there, I'll just import the file in DP 9.51, just a couple of edits, nothing too serious, and then I'll make a new AAF that I'll import later in Pro Tools. DP was unable to even recognize the AAF file! Nothing. Drag and drop? Nope. From the File menu? Nope. This is sooo stupid. I lost about 2 hours before I could finally, and flawlessly open this file in Pro Tools.
If you change the extension of the AAF file to a lower case extension(example: filename.aaf), DP will recognise and open the AAF file.

cheers
Old 3 weeks ago
  #36
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HugoRibeiro.Com's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Sorry you had to go through that with looking at buying Logic. I've contemplated that save for a couple of things: I run OSX 10.10.5 and the current version of Logic won't run on that as far as I can tell. And if I go to Sierra or High Sierra I lose PT and according what has come out of the current NAMM straight from the MOTU people is that DP9 still doesn't play well inside HS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KV626 View Post
As for Logic, 10.4 is an update so massive and impressive you'd almost want to make Apple a donation for it!
The problem with Logic, besides being a Mac OS only app, is that almost every Logic update will require to update the OS. There are still a lot of people with Yosemite and El Capitan because of 3rd party apps so its not always optimal to update to a later OS just because of Logc. Apple just does that to make people upgrade because somehow they think Mac users just use Apple apps!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoRibeiro.Com View Post
The problem with Logic, besides being a Mac OS only app, is that almost every Logic update will require to update the OS. There are still a lot of people with Yosemite and El Capitan because of 3rd party apps so its not always optimal to update to a later OS just because of Logc. Apple just does that to make people upgrade because somehow they think Mac users just use Apple apps!
It's not an oversight, every security update they have to roll out for El Capitan or earlier is a huge PITA, every app that doesn't update for the latest version of their OS is a PITA support wise. Apple cannot and should not be beholden to app developers that refuse to update their products for the latest OS. I have Office 2011, don't expect it to last forever, and I cannot blame Apple for my disinterest in keeping up with Office.

You could if you wanted attribute some of this to their desire for you to get a new machine, but IMO most of it is about what I just described, support for older machines running third party apps that aren't compatible that screw up the computer somehow, isn't fun.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #38
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KV626 View Post
FWIW, PT 2018.1 is a very solid release. Now I don't know if you plan to get on the plan, but I'm happy I stayed current.

LPX 10.4 has the potential to be game changer for me though, if I ever get as fast and comfortable on LPX as I am on PT.

I learned how to use a sequencer with Performer 6 and DP 2.3 iirc...sadly, seeing how it performs today, I don't miss it.
If I pay the PT12 lapse fee and get on the plan I would have to update OSX to either Sierra or High Sierra and that would cause me to lose DP as it currently stands. As I mentioned earlier the word that came out of NAMM straight from MOTU people is that DP still isn't playing nice with HS.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #39
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KV626's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
If I pay the PT12 lapse fee and get on the plan I would have to update OSX to either Sierra or High Sierra and that would cause me to lose DP as it currently stands. As I mentioned earlier the word that came out of NAMM straight from MOTU people is that DP still isn't playing nice with HS.
I'm staying away from HS for now as well, and may even skip it completely, depending on what Apple has in store for next fall... But Sierra is just fine. PT 2018.1, LPX 10.4, DP 9.x - all good.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #40
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KV626's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoRibeiro.Com View Post
If you change the extension of the AAF file to a lower case extension(example: filename.aaf), DP will recognise and open the AAF file.

cheers
Really!? Well, thanks for the tip!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #41
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KV626 View Post
Really!? Well, thanks for the tip!
Surprising but true. I've also seen this happen with other file name extensions as well. wav versus WAV, jpg versus JPG, etc.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #42
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HugoRibeiro.Com's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KV626 View Post
Really!? Well, thanks for the tip!
Yes indeed!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #43
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Monkey Man's Avatar
Someone over at MOTUNation just said this:

"I learned that Mach5 May be included with the next upgrade rather than abandoned! "

I assume this was "revealed" in a private conversation, and if it's true, well...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Someone over at MOTUNation just said this:

"I learned that Mach5 May be included with the next upgrade rather than abandoned! "

I assume this was "revealed" in a private conversation, and if it's true, well...
C'mon Nicky - you know better than that. Remember when MOTU made MX4 part of DP and then abandoned the program? If that person is to be believed (and would you trust someone with only 3 posts?) about Mach5 becoming part of DP and not being abandoned I've got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell. It would also go against past history. Remember MOTU hasn't done a damned thing for Mach 5 in years. I sure as Hades wouldn't pay for something that's been all but deprecated by the developer.

I'd sooner save my money and get Falcon instead UNLESS MOTU does something really stellar with DP like talked about here.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #45
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I hear ya Jack, and of course I know this stuff.

Just passing it on 'cause it just may be a glimmer of hope for we M5 die-hards who're hanging onto the possibility it'll live on.

I've held out on UVI all this time 'cause I love M5's ability to read EXS-24, AKAI, KONTAKT, EMU etc. files. I've plunked my entire '90s EMU and AKAI libraries into it, for instance. It would be awesome to know that the plugin's at least being supported functionality-wise (a fair assumption if it lived on in DP as part of the factory plugin set); otherwise I'd simply do my best to ignore it 'til all hope is definitely lost.

There's as yet been no statement from MOTU to the effect that M5 is truly dead. Sure, everyone over at M'Nation was of the opinion that it was, years ago, but I've been happy to be the "fool" and have held out all this time. This is in part because of brand loyalty and largely 'cause of the huge investment of time and money I made (bloody expensive here in Oz).

Anyway, 3 posts or 3000 posts, I've no legitimate reason to disbelieve the statement I quoted. It's entirely possible there was a misunderstanding; I wouldn't assume right off the bat that the fella lied. This fool's gonna keep his fingers crossed at any rate.

M5, even sans any further development, would be an awesome inclusion in DP, and the fact that it cost me $600 AU wouldn't bother me in the slightest; ongoing functionality would literally have me in raptures.

I know... control yourself, buddy. Thanks for attempting to help me curb my enthusiasm, bud.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #46
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
While samplers are 100% the most obvious choice as to what plug in to add to a DAW, I have a list of things I would rather see MOTU do with DP than add more embedded plug ins. Though, yeah, there does seam to be a persistent rumor that MOTU are working on an embedded M53, and it would make sense, especially if their relationship with UVI isn't sour.

I can buy great plug ins outside a DAW, but I can't make DP have VCA faders, ARA support, MPE support, more bounce down choices, larger fonts, object oriented MIDI editing, and warp markers that you can freely move like in Live, among other things. Those are just a few of the things that have started to wear on me in DP.

I suppose if a few of those were addressed in an upgrade at NAMM I wouldn't have wandering eyes, but as it is I've bought Logic X and have been looking at Reaper as well. Logic won simply because Reapers one lack is good control surface support from Slate and I have the Raven touch screen. Reaper is a complicate POS in some ways, but once you dive in it's pretty impressive. Spectral editing built in, best in class warping, VCA faders, very detailed and comprehensive bouncing, etc.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Spectral editing built in
Hello

Since there is spectral analysis per track in DP9, I guess they will add the edit function on it soon.. otherwise I don't see the point to add this in DP9 ?

Best
Zam
Old 3 weeks ago
  #48
Gear Nut
 
HugoRibeiro.Com's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Reaper is a complicate POS in some ways, but once you dive in it's pretty impressive. Spectral editing built in, best in class warping, VCA faders, very detailed and comprehensive bouncing, etc.
Damn right! Reaper if F'ing awesome and ahead of the pack in some things! But because of the low price and the never ending trial period of Reaper, unfortunately a lot of pro's don't take it very seriously, although thats been changing over the years. I use and love both DP and Reaper and use each for different things.
There are also times I don't even know which one to use because I want to do right by both. If that makes any sense!!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #49
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Monkey Man's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
While samplers are 100% the most obvious choice as to what plug in to add to a DAW, I have a list of things I would rather see MOTU do with DP than add more embedded plug ins. Though, yeah, there does seam to be a persistent rumor that MOTU are working on an embedded M53, and it would make sense, especially if their relationship with UVI isn't sour.
I was responding to musicman's reply about the quote I took from M'Nation where the subject was revived. M5 would be a huge bonus for me as I haven't invested in an alternative sampler yet; been waiting for something like this, hoping to Hell it would happen.

Of course, in earlier posts I said I'd like to see conventional instrument tracks (with "output-expansion" buttons a la Logic) as an option, larger fonts / simplified UI etc.

Really thought we'd have seen something by now and NAMM's winding up. Fingers still crossed. C'mon MOTU!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #50
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I predict that it will still look and feel 10 years behind everything else.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #51
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Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
I predict that it will still look and feel 10 years behind everything else.
I don't mind that, as long as it gets VCA faders and bounce down choices.
Honestly though, the only look that's ten years behind is some smaller thin fonts here and there.

Feel wise, I suppose the whole issue of having separate MIDI track for each VI is old school, but I sure appreciate it over what I'm dealing with setting up multiple MIDI controllers to send to specific software instruments in Logic, which does not allow a VI to receive a specific port.....

I suppose in that regard Cubase is probably king. Live has a 128 parameter limitation to VI's on tracks, DP has separate MIDI tracks for each VI, and Logic does not allow separate MIDI ports to VI's..
Old 1 week ago
  #52
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I've been using DP since vs 2.xx...so that's at least 20 years and it's still my go to for recording " albums " with live musicians. That said, I use Ableton ( using vs 10 now ) for my composing and recording when there's just a few players...and it's so much quicker and intuitive for composing. DP has really fallen behind in the included instrument, sample library, loops department...which is a reflection of not staying current with how composing has changed. The fact that I have a huge selection of free sample packs in Ableton that I can quickly audition and either load an instrument or just grab a one shot sample ( such as a cymbal hit ) is fantastic. In DP, I have to search thru my folders of one shots, drag a sample in, let it load...and then see if it's the right sound. I hope DP does something fab in vs 10 to at least be within sight of the current DAW technology. I was bummed at NAMM with the lack of anything new.
Old 1 week ago
  #53
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdpath View Post
I've been using DP since vs 2.xx...so that's at least 20 years and it's still my go to for recording " albums " with live musicians. That said, I use Ableton ( using vs 10 now ) for my composing and recording when there's just a few players...and it's so much quicker and intuitive for composing. DP has really fallen behind in the included instrument, sample library, loops department...which is a reflection of not staying current with how composing has changed. The fact that I have a huge selection of free sample packs in Ableton that I can quickly audition and either load an instrument or just grab a one shot sample ( such as a cymbal hit ) is fantastic. In DP, I have to search thru my folders of one shots, drag a sample in, let it load...and then see if it's the right sound. I hope DP does something fab in vs 10 to at least be within sight of the current DAW technology. I was bummed at NAMM with the lack of anything new.
You're not the only one bummed. Surprisingly over at that other DP forum no one's really taken aback at MOTU doing squat with DP. A number of people were expecting at least an announcement for DP10 (DPX) or things that were being worked on. Crickets from MOTU. And they have the ear of the main MOTU/DP people like Magic Dave to boot. I wonder if something was talked about by the DP people at the annual NAMM dinner that forum puts on and everyone is under some sort of NDA?

Isn't there a Summer NAMM? Maybe something then (he says hopefully)?
Old 1 week ago
  #54
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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
And they have the ear of the main MOTU/DP people like Magic Dave to boot.
We pay attention to Gearslutz also.

Dave
Old 1 week ago
  #55
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Originally Posted by magicd View Post
We pay attention to Gearslutz also.

Dave
True that but seemingly not as much. Then again GS doesn't host a yearly dinner for MOTU people either.
Old 1 week ago
  #56
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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
True that but seemingly not as much. Then again GS doesn't host a yearly dinner for MOTU people either.
I did not attend the MOTU Mac dinner this year. If you make it out to NAMM next year the pass and dinner are on me.

Dave
Old 1 week ago
  #57
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musicman691's Avatar
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Originally Posted by magicd View Post
I did not attend the MOTU Mac dinner this year. If you make it out to NAMM next year the pass and dinner are on me.

Dave
I'm flattered at the offer. I don't fly anymore for a whole bunch of reasons and a train from the East Coast (NJ) would take a couple of days. Although a chance to get away from the winter cold is tempting
Old 1 week ago
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicd View Post
We pay attention to Gearslutz also.

Dave
That's good to know. I certainly appreciate your accessibility (and your NAMM demos.) I haven't been on Motunation in years and have no idea what's the hot topic over there.

So, Is Motu cooking up some big additions in 10?
Old 1 week ago
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdpath View Post
That's good to know. I certainly appreciate your accessibility (and your NAMM demos.) I haven't been on Motunation in years and have no idea what's the hot topic over there.

So, Is Motu cooking up some big additions in 10?
I left Motunation because I got tired of King James's schtick. Want to know more - pm or email me.

As to whether MOTU has something great in store for DP nobody really knows least of all MOTU people or we would have heard something at NAMM. As evidenced in this thread there's a bunch of stuff we'd like to see done but MOTU doesn't seem to have a great history of listening to the masses. They'd rather give us useless guitar pedals and deprecated instruments like MX4. In that vein well probably see Mach Five Three in DP10 considering development and bug fixes on that stopped years ago.
Old 1 week ago
  #60
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
I predict that it will still look and feel 10 years behind everything else.

Compared to Logic, DP is hopelessly behind, because it doesn't have Logic's panning options, a sampler, Match EQ, Drummer tracks, blah, blah, blah..


Compared to DP, Logic is hopelessly behind, because it doesn't have Track overview, tracks movable in the mixer, Meter Bridge, independent show/hide tracks, Themes, blah, blah, blah...
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