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DP9.02 and VEPro 6 - any users? Signal Splitters (HW)
Old 11th October 2017
  #1
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musicman691's Avatar
DP9.02 and VEPro 6 - any users?

Don't seem to find any threads here where people talk about using DP with Vienna Ensemble Pro v6. Anybody using this combo and how's it working for you? Particularly interested in people working in a two computer master/slave configuration. 2012 MacPro 5,1 cheesegrater with 3.46 GHz hex core and 32 gig ram as the master and a mid 2011 27 inch iMac with 3.4 GHz quad core i7 as th slave direct connect via short ethernet cable - no router in the middle.

The reason I'm going with this config is with the screen I have on the 5,1 (27 inch 1920x1080) it makes things a lot easier to see with these aging eyes versus the display on the iMac. Finally makes those bleeping little menus easier to read.
Old 13th October 2017
  #2
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I'm using DP 9.5 now, but it works fine. I have a setup with a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro as master hooked up to a Raven monitor, it's a flawless thing these days, pretty crazy compared to Wormhole which worked sometimes with huge latency.
It's all without noticeable latency even considering the thunderbolt hub (firewire Gigabyte ethernet etc.) for the MacBook Pro Retina which doesn't have GB ethernet. VEP is pretty impressive, and will keep me away from new computers for years to come!
Old 13th October 2017
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
I'm using DP 9.5 now, but it works fine. I have a setup with a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro as master hooked up to a Raven monitor, it's a flawless thing these days, pretty crazy compared to Wormhole which worked sometimes with huge latency.
It's all without noticeable latency even considering the thunderbolt hub (firewire Gigabyte ethernet etc.) for the MacBook Pro Retina which doesn't have GB ethernet. VEP is pretty impressive, and will keep me away from new computers for years to come!
Thanks for the reply; I should have added I'm going to use DP9.02. As mentioned in another thread or two here I also have 9.50 on the same machine but I get on better with 9.02. If I understand you correctly the MacPro is the slave and the MBP is the master? That's the thing that's driving me nuts - which machine to use as master and which as slave? I already mentioned the major specs but what I didn't is the iMac has external Thunderbolt drives for session and sample storage and the MacPro has external FW800 drives for session and sample storage. No Thunderbolt connections on the cheesegrater darn it. Once I get bucks up again the cheesegrater will get internal ssd's for boot and samples and an enterprise class 7200 rpm spinner for sessions. In preliminary trials with the MacPro it appears to be faster than the iMac which is interesting. Both running OSX 10.10.5 on 7200 rpm spinners. Hopefully I get the iMac out of the shop soon with the replacement video card that fried.
Old 13th October 2017
  #4
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VEP is much better at using multi core machines than DP is, convenience wise it would be easier to use the Mac Pro as a master since I've done all my work on it, but the Retina is a powerful machine and only four cores as opposed to 12 on the Pro, so it makes much more sense to use the Retina as the master. There shouldn't be any difference between using 9.5 and 9.02, VEP doesnt use pre rendering anyway, since it runs each plug in instance as real time. Long and short of it is I set myself up to run for power over convenience, cores VS which machine was being added to the mix.
Old 15th November 2017
  #5
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Update:
Well I'm going to be working forever after in a single computer setup. The original video card in my iMac fried. Took it to a shop and they replaced the card and that one fried after about a total of 24 hours use. Took the iMac back and the shop hemmed and hawed about putting in another card so I said no and canceled the deal. Got my machine back and all but $100 I put into the repair.

Which brings me back to DP and VEPro interaction. I'm contemplating working in DP9.5 because of the new stuff (may 9.51r2 if I get on with 9.5) and that brings up the thing that MOTU in their infinite wisdom took away the ability to globally turn off pregen; to keep a plugin from going into pregen mode you have to keep the gui open and make a selection in one of those blasted DP mini windows. But which gui do I have to keep open? The little client gui, the server gui or what? I know you can keep a vi plugin in real time by also having a record enabled MIDI track routed to the vi but I don't want to have extra MIDI tracks around or even leave record enabled the MIDI track that has the actual MIDI data on it that drives the vi.

Any ideas?
Old 17th November 2017
  #6
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DP should according to them anyway run VEP plug ins in real time.
You should easily be able to determine this in 9.5 since the Effects Performance window shows you which plug ins run in real time and which are PreGen.
Old 17th November 2017
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
DP should according to them anyway run VEP plug ins in real time.
You should easily be able to determine this in 9.5 since the Effects Performance window shows you which plug ins run in real time and which are PreGen.
Yes I know about using the effects performance window to see what's running pregen versus real time. And so far the only way I've been able to keep VEPro 6 running in real time is to keep enabled a MIDI track routed to VEPro. Something just comes to mind: what if I had a MIDI track in DP routed to VEPro that's record enabled but goes to a MIDI channel that has nothing on it? Further - hide the MIDI track in DP?
Old 20th November 2017
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Yes I know about using the effects performance window to see what's running pregen versus real time. And so far the only way I've been able to keep VEPro 6 running in real time is to keep enabled a MIDI track routed to VEPro. Something just comes to mind: what if I had a MIDI track in DP routed to VEPro that's record enabled but goes to a MIDI channel that has nothing on it? Further - hide the MIDI track in DP?
I'm on DP 9.51, VEP 6.0.1. I just instantiated 12 instances of VEP in DP, with no MIDI tracks assigned to them. All 12 are running in Real Time (RT), moving them to a V-Rack they continue to run in real time. For your information I also have "Run open Instances of this Plug-in in Real time" checked, but I never opened any instances... On my system anyway VEP runs in Real Time by default, I have no idea how or why you're system is doing something different? as that's not how VEP, Aux Tracks, or accelerator cards like UAD are supposed to work with PreGen. PreGen is supposed to not attempt to run those types of tracks if it is, it's something wrong with your setup etc.
Old 20th November 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
I'm on DP 9.51, VEP 6.0.1. I just instantiated 12 instances of VEP in DP, with no MIDI tracks assigned to them. All 12 are running in Real Time (RT), moving them to a V-Rack they continue to run in real time. For your information I also have "Run open Instances of this Plug-in in Real time" checked, but I never opened any instances... On my system anyway VEP runs in Real Time by default, I have no idea how or why you're system is doing something different? as that's not how VEP, Aux Tracks, or accelerator cards like UAD are supposed to work with PreGen. PreGen is supposed to not attempt to run those types of tracks if it is, it's something wrong with your setup etc.
Which version of VEPro 6 are you using - MAS or au/vst? When running the MAS version in DP9.50 I have to keep a MIDI track record enabled to keep that instance of VEPro running in real time. If I disable that MIDI track and the gui is closed then VEPro reverts to pregen. I don't use V-Racks. Nothing wrong with my system either. With VEPro on an instrument track it behaves like any other vi which means it's subject to the same rules as any other vi.

I'm confused by your statement: "For your information I also have "Run open Instances of this Plug-in in Real time" checked, but I never opened any instances..." What do you mean by 'you never opened any instances'? You have to open an instance to make that selection in the mini menu for each instantiation of VEPro.

Maybe 9.51 changes this?
Old 20th November 2017
  #10
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You quoted me telling you which version of VEP I’m running... VEP talks to DP like it’s a UAD card or something in Reason rewired into DP, i.e. it never should run in PreGen. So yes, according to the way MOTU designed PreGen, there is something wrong on your system. It could be third party for sure, I’m not saying user error, but if you’re experiencing problems with PreGen the way you describe including VEP then something is messing it up for you compared to me..

In detail here’s what I did:
opened DP and VEP on the same computer.
instaniated 12 VEP plug ins in DP.
Effects Performance says all are Real Time(RT)
Opened a VEP plug in and connected, still in Real Time.
Assigned MIDI, still RT..
Moved the 12 instances to a V-Rack, still RT...

There were issues with DP and VEP at first in DP9, I think for the same reasons you’re mentioning, i.e. DP would try to pre-render VEP instances, but from what I know both VSL and MOTU worked it out. Running VEP plug ins as MAS by the way (of course)
Old 20th November 2017
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
You quoted me telling you which version of VEP I’m running... VEP talks to DP like it’s a UAD card or something in Reason rewired into DP, i.e. it never should run in PreGen. So yes, according to the way MOTU designed PreGen, there is something wrong on your system. It could be third party for sure, I’m not saying user error, but if you’re experiencing problems with PreGen the way you describe including VEP then something is messing it up for you compared to me..

In detail here’s what I did:
opened DP and VEP on the same computer.
instaniated 12 VEP plug ins in DP.
Effects Performance says all are Real Time(RT)
Opened a VEP plug in and connected, still in Real Time.
Assigned MIDI, still RT..
Moved the 12 instances to a V-Rack, still RT...

There were issues with DP and VEP at first in DP9, I think for the same reasons you’re mentioning, i.e. DP would try to pre-render VEP instances, but from what I know both VSL and MOTU worked it out. Running VEP plug ins as MAS by the way (of course)
I quoted you so there would be something that shows what I'm referring to.

You assigned a MIDI track in DP to VEPro - that's good; was that track record enabled?

How many windows do you have open on your computer? If you have all those little windows open in DP that show what server you're connected to then as long as they're open and you have selected to run that instance as realtime then it'll stay in realtime.

I assure you there is nothing wrong with my machine. Maybe it's because I'm running DP9.50 and you're running DP9.51? If MOTU and Vienna worked it out they have told no one.

What OSX version are you running? I'm on OSX 10.10.5 and staying there.
Old 20th November 2017
  #12
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OS 10.12.5, I only opened one plug in window, all other windows were never opened and still are RT. Selecting a MIDI track has nothing to do with it, it’s supposed to work like it does on my system, that it doesn’t on your is a mystery, but you’re running an old OS and an old version of DP. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t just say things to say them, this is from DP 9.1 release notes verbatim-
Quote:
Not all plug-ins can take advantage of pre-generation. For example, plug-ins that delegate their processing to hardware or other processes, such as UAD plug-ins or Vienna Ensemble Pro (VEP), can not run in pre-generation mode, and so will not benefit from its increased performance. In practice this is not much of a loss, since the processing work is already being offloaded from the real time signal path.
There you have it, if it’s not behaving like that for you there is something wrong with your system, some plug in you have is creating this weird bug where VEP tries to Pregen when it should not, period.
Old 20th November 2017
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
OS 10.12.5, I only opened one plug in window, all other windows were never opened and still are RT. Selecting a MIDI track has nothing to do with it, it’s supposed to work like it does on my system, that it doesn’t on your is a mystery, but you’re running an old OS and an old version of DP. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t just say things to say them, this is from DP 9.1 release notes verbatim-

There you have it, if it’s not behaving like that for you there is something wrong with your system, some plug in you have is creating this weird bug where VEP tries to Pregen when it should not, period.
Running pretty much standard plugins like the EW Play 5.04 engine libraries and Kontakt 5.7.

Once again - nothing wrong with my system. What's so bad about running an older OSX? Have no need for any of the new crap that's in later versions and besides I'd lose the usage of PT11.3.2 if I went higher than the Yosemite install I have now.

I know what the release notes say but it's happening on my system. There's often a gap between what MOTU writes and reality. I've seen many times where MOTU says something should happen and it doesn't. They don't do a hell of a lot of testing on various systems. And as for raising a Techlink with them I've been through that before with other issues and gotten nowheres.
Old 20th November 2017
  #14
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Consider the issue solved as I found out what happened.
When I installed OSX 10.10.5 I used Migration Assisstant to bring stuff over instead of installing things from new. Now I understand what they refer to when it's called Migration Assassin instead. Reinstalled DP9.50 and all is okay now.
So it WAS my system but it happened because I followed Apple's way of doing things which isn't always right.
Thanks for hanging in with me.
Old 21st November 2017
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Consider the issue solved as I found out what happened.
When I installed OSX 10.10.5 I used Migration Assisstant to bring stuff over instead of installing things from new. Now I understand what they refer to when it's called Migration Assassin instead. Reinstalled DP9.50 and all is okay now.
So it WAS my system but it happened because I followed Apple's way of doing things which isn't always right.
Thanks for hanging in with me.
Crazy! glad you're up and running!
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