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Why isn't DP one of the "Top three" DAWs?
Old 10th July 2019
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
More on Groth than anyone else....trust me
None of what you're saying contradicts what I said.. go read my original post.
Old 10th July 2019
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
None of what you're saying contradicts what I said.. go read my original post.
Nor mine. Groth was the lead in both Performer and PT, no matter who else helped out. That's why, as I originally pointed out, the dialogs for Quantize, etc, in PT look just like DP (or how DP used to look anyway, haven't noticed yet with the latest versions). Just got an extension on the demo of DP10 which MOTU was kind enough to allow. I think I'm determined to get this despite it's shortcomings.

Chunks are just irresistible

TH
Old 11th July 2019
  #393
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Nor mine. Groth was the lead in both Performer and PT, no matter who else helped out. That's why, as I originally pointed out, the dialogs for Quantize, etc, in PT look just like DP (or how DP used to look anyway, haven't noticed yet with the latest versions).
Sure, I wasn't contradicting you, just saying Avid also used another hard hitter MIDI wise in Openheim, who did OMS back in the days of OS9 for one.



Quote:
Just got an extension on the demo of DP10 which MOTU was kind enough to allow. I think I'm determined to get this despite it's shortcomings.

Chunks are just irresistible

TH
Tell me about it. I'm developing a live set, I own- DP10, Live 10, Reaper, Logic, and MPC Live, as well as Push 2.

The obvious choice would be Ableton Live, which I've used for years, and with Push it seems like a no brainer. Problem with Live is it's not really set up for a traditional backing tracks and band practice. The best way to set up an entire set is to use Scenes, which do not exist on a linear timeline like the Arrangement page in Live. So, if you're working with a drummer or singer and want to loop a section to practice it, it's a bit of a pita. Live is just more set up in a DJ style, where you're remixing an existing song instead of playing guitar over drum and synth tracks.

Reaper, Logic and the MPC present either all the songs on a single timeline, or loading each one individually. Not that great either.


DP10, so yeah Chunks. Simply perfect, each Chunk with it's own markers so you can quickly jump around the sequence, each Chunk with it's own mixer set up, and the whole ability to use the Chunk chaining to tie them all together so you never have to do more than maybe start and stop the set with a MIDI foot peddle.

I just wish MOTU aggressively develop this and Clips to have plug and play support for all the Ableton Live style controllers out there like Push 2, Launchpad, AKAI's APC40 etc. IMO they're really going to miss the ball if they don't realize the potential of the combination of Chunks and Clips.
Old 11th July 2019
  #394
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Just got an extension on the demo of DP10 which MOTU was kind enough to allow. I think I'm determined to get this despite it's shortcomings.

Chunks are just irresistible

TH
As a 25 year employee of MOTU I read these threads with a chuckle. I spent a fair chunk of my life there and I'll never slag the company. Nothing is perfect but it was an awesome experience. A lot is correct and a lot is incorrect in these threads about the company and it's products. Gotta say, it's fun to watch.

I've been gone from MOTU for some time now so in no way do I represent the company. But I remain a die-hard DP user. I make my living now using mostly Adobe Premiere and DP. The software isn't perfect but like I said, I earn my living with it. Respect your tools.

Fast? I would challenge any ProTools or Logic user to a side by side test of who could get the job done quicker. But I have an advantage. I know the program pretty much inside and out.

Ocean, feel free to hit me with a PM any time with DP questions. Or if you post them here I'll do my best to help out in public.

Cheers!
Dave
Old 11th July 2019
  #395
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

You still da man, Davo.
Old 11th July 2019
  #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
You still da man, Davo.
Howdy MM!

Dave
Old 12th July 2019
  #397
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Dave! The Mr. Magic Man!
Old 12th July 2019
  #398
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicd View Post
As a 25 year employee of MOTU I read these threads with a chuckle. I spent a fair chunk of my life there and I'll never slag the company. Nothing is perfect but it was an awesome experience. A lot is correct and a lot is incorrect in these threads about the company and it's products. Gotta say, it's fun to watch.

I've been gone from MOTU for some time now so in no way do I represent the company. But I remain a die-hard DP user. I make my living now using mostly Adobe Premiere and DP. The software isn't perfect but like I said, I earn my living with it. Respect your tools.

Fast? I would challenge any ProTools or Logic user to a side by side test of who could get the job done quicker. But I have an advantage. I know the program pretty much inside and out.

Ocean, feel free to hit me with a PM any time with DP questions. Or if you post them here I'll do my best to help out in public.

Cheers!
Dave
Dave the problem with your offer to contact you, is that I undoubtedly will, and soon, and often LOL

Your instructions and explanations are always clear and often humorous. Wish you were here looking over my shoulder helping me get up to speed!

Thanks so much be in touch. Spending about a half hour every night with DP and seeing how it goes!

Tom
Old 12th July 2019
  #399
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Dave the problem with your offer to contact you, is that I undoubtedly will, and soon, and often LOL

Your instructions and explanations are always clear and often humorous. Wish you were here looking over my shoulder helping me get up to speed!

Thanks so much be in touch. Spending about a half hour every night with DP and seeing how it goes!

Tom


Dave
Old 13th July 2019
  #400
Gear Addict
 

Magic Dave, I am super glad you're still dropping by here and that life after MOTU is good for you. But I must say that a MOTU booth at a trade show is hardly a MOTU booth without you there, front and center and omnipresent. In fact, I'd say that part of your legacy (not to get all serious about it) is that you always, consistently, year after year, gave the best demo presentations of *ANY* DAW developer. I always looked forward to them. Just a terrific flow of information and demonstration. And if MD said it, it was true!
Old 14th July 2019
  #401
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Indeed!

If it's any consolation 'though, AFAIK, Dave is still omnipresent... and always has been.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdman42 View Post
DP has some cool features that no other DAW has...and if you really want those features, its the one to get. However, I find the GUI to be clunky and 1990's in too many ways to count. I just can't enjoy using it. It makes me squint my eyes all the time. I find the general workflow to be more along the lines of how an audio engineer would think rather then how a composer/arranger would think. There is a lot of grey area to that statement I realize, but that is how I feel about it. Some friends of mine have been creating great music on DP for years and can't stomach the idea of LogicPro (which they call a "toy", even though its not) or Cubase, etc. A lot of it depends on what you get used to, but I just couldn't get used to DP after many years of trying. That is why, in my opinion it is not that popular amongst home studio folks. Its a very popular program, but some things are just plain awkward to do and their GUI is seriously stuck in 1990...

On the positive side, some things, are brilliant. Chunks is one feature often cited. There are some best in class features for working with video also.
What are the features within DP, that no other DAW has?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #403
Gear Maniac
 
Dewdman42's Avatar
 

as noted already above and a few more.
  • chunks
  • Video hit point calculator
  • Video punches and streamers
  • V-Racks

to name a few. I don't use DP anymore though because it lacks other things I like better in other DAW's such as LogicPro and Cubase. DP doesn't have midi regions for one thing. In general I don't like the GUI.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #404
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdman42 View Post
as noted already above and a few more.
  • chunks
  • Video hit point calculator
  • Video punches and streamers
  • V-Racks

to name a few. I don't use DP anymore though because it lacks other things I like better in other DAW's such as LogicPro and Cubase. DP doesn't have midi regions for one thing. In general I don't like the GUI.
Funny how taste goes, I don't like Logic X's GUI, it's practical for the most part, but to me it's too toy like these days, I liked the way 4.7 looked, if they let you skin Logic x I would be happy.

Cubase OTOH was butt ugly to me until recent versions. Looks pretty good now.

DP10 looks great to me, I'm still sort of shocked they manage to ignore the CC volume automation issue every update, it's right up there with Logics hideous 20 year old GUIs on the older instruments as an example of an area of a DAW that just repeatedly gets ignored.
Chunks are the main reason I stick with DP, a consolidated Project with all versions of a song is just really convenient to me for one.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #405
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Sure it's a user group but not a friendly one unless you're one of the 'in crowd'. I know one doesn't have to deal with it but there is so precious little out there in the way of user to user help for DP. There's three sources - that forum, this forum and Facebook and if you don't do FB that's two. They expect that you've exhausted reading the manual before even thinking about asking a question and that manual isn't the best organized.

MOTU phone support is aces though.
Because it didn't have a good interface. I used to sell that product, and then a guy came in my shop and showed me Cubase on the Mac @ 1990.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #406
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post

DP10 looks great to me, I'm still sort of shocked they manage to ignore the CC volume automation issue every update
Let me guess - you're talking about the unwanted ramps when moving automation about right?

I tired to freeze my system at DP9.02 because it had one button 'run in real time' setting in the prefs. But when I went to High Sierra I had to go to DP9.52 so I didn't have to enter my authorization information each time I opened DP. That caused me to have to keep guis opened if I wanted a plugin to run in real time. What really brought that home for me was I worked on a session started in 9.02 and I wanted to render to audio (in real time - I don't use any kind of bounce) the BFD 3 drums. Playing back the rendered audio along with the rest of the session and the drums were way out of time due to the next gen pregen goofiness. So it was either slide the drum audio or re-render it from MIDI which meant having to keep open that HUGE BFD 3 gui. Which sucks because it takes up the better part of my monitor screen.

I'm only finishing up what I have to in DP that I can't easily mover over to PT 2019.6. Can't see spending money on DP10 and it's own issues MOTU is struggling to fix but rather those funds are going to getting Falcon 2 at $244.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #407
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Can't see spending money on DP10 and it's own issues MOTU is struggling to fix but rather those funds are going to getting Falcon 2 at $244.
I don't think we can assume MOTU's "struggling to fix" issues with DP10. It could just be that it doesn't want to, nor does it usually, roll out point updates willy-nilly, major issues that affect most users' being the exception, as was the case for DP6 when sysex dumps weren't recorded accurately. The next update should reveal more, of course...

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
That caused me to have to keep guis opened if I wanted a plugin to run in real time. What really brought that home for me was I worked on a session started in 9.02 and I wanted to render to audio (in real time - I don't use any kind of bounce) the BFD 3 drums. Playing back the rendered audio along with the rest of the session and the drums were way out of time due to the next gen pregen goofiness. So it was either slide the drum audio or re-render it from MIDI which meant having to keep open that HUGE BFD 3 gui. Which sucks because it takes up the better part of my monitor screen.
Just a thought, Jack, but couldn't you drag open plugin windows to another "Space"? That way they'd be out-of-the-way but technically still-open.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #408
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
I don't think we can assume MOTU's "struggling to fix" issues with DP10. It could just be that it doesn't want to, nor does it usually, roll out point updates willy-nilly, major issues that affect most users' being the exception, as was the case for DP6 when sysex dumps weren't recorded accurately. The next update should reveal more, of course...


Just a thought, Jack, but couldn't you drag open plugin windows to another "Space"? That way they'd be out-of-the-way but technically still-open.
From what I've seen browsing that other forum MOTU IS struggling to fix the bugs. Period. Either way I can't afford to wait while MOTU gets it's **** together.

Nicky - I thought you were better than this - you're starting to sound like MLC and being an apologist for MOTU. Unlike some I'm willing to say the emperor has no clothes.

I refuse to deal with Spaces - it's a workaround that should not need to be used due to MOTU's stupidity when they went with the next gen pregen and didn't leave an easy out like they did with DP 9.02.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #409
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Either way I can't afford to wait while MOTU gets it's **** together.
Fair enough, mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Nicky - I thought you were better than this - you're starting to sound like MLC and being an apologist for MOTU.
Brother Jack, I was only trying to be fair to MOTU, given its minor-update-frequency M.O. and policy of "secrecy" as to what's in-the-works. I've had the impression that much, if not all of what's been said at M'Nation about bug-squashing has been speculation and nothing more, so I take it with a grain of salt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
From what I've seen browsing that other forum MOTU IS struggling to fix the bugs. Period.
Well, you seem certain of this so I won't question your judgement, brother; you're a smart cookie after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
I refuse to deal with Spaces - it's a workaround that should not need to be used due to MOTU's stupidity when they went with the next gen pregen and didn't leave an easy out like they did with DP 9.02.
Hey, just trying to help in the described scenario, mate.

I love Spaces and hope to be able to avoid ever having to buy a second monitor thanks to it. The keyboard shortcuts are 2nd-nature to me and have been for years. I have multiple desktops tailored to different situations and app use, and anticipate doing a similar thing with DP - one each for the Sequence Editor, Mixer, FX plugins and VI's... and probably more for things I haven't thought of yet...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #410
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
... those funds are going to getting Falcon 2...
Good move getting Falcon. I think you're gonna like. It more less looks and feels like you're in MF3.

Check out some of the third party developers
https://www.acousticsamples.net
https://patchpool.net

I noticed updates to the Soundbanks last night, so I'm in the processing of unzipping .rar files.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #411
Lives for gear
I don't visit M'Nation that much these days, the rare occasion I do is to look up an old tip or tutorial about one of DP's many deep and tough-by-the-curve-of-its-learning features (beat detection and tempo mapping anyone? I love DP's tempo mapping...though a doozy to internalize.)

Mostly I don't go there because there just ain't that much exciting to talk about as it pertains to DP. It's a sign of the times to be honest, as DP loses market share, its major forum becomes a less lively and interesting place.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #412
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Mastering View Post
I don't visit M'Nation that much these days, the rare occasion I do is to look up an old tip or tutorial about one of DP's many deep and tough-by-the-curve-of-its-learning features (beat detection and tempo mapping anyone? I love DP's tempo mapping...though a doozy to internalize.)

Mostly I don't go there because there just ain't that much exciting to talk about as it pertains to DP. It's a sign of the times to be honest, as DP loses market share, its major forum becomes a less lively and interesting place.
I think the reason DP's major forum is like you say because it's the same old clique/in crowd that's been there for years who sneer at anyone who doesn't have the know-how they do. I'm talking MLC and his ilk. Same old same old farts. I haven't been a member there in some time as I called King James on his pomposity and he couldn't take the criticism. That guy can be such a dick at times it ain't funny.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #413
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Let me guess - you're talking about the unwanted ramps when moving automation about right?
No, I don't move things around by the time I'm using automation. I would love that to get fixed though. To be fair some other DAWs exhibit that behavior as well, but I prefer ones like Live that decide to cut it pre or post.

I'm talking about the GUI, CC velocity automation at the bottom of the MIDI editor is a teensy tiny line with a microscopic v on the top, that you have to surgically grab if you want to change the value, it's from the days when we used 480x640 or whatever monitors.

Quote:
I tired to freeze my system at DP9.02 because it had one button 'run in real time' setting in the prefs. But when I went to High Sierra I had to go to DP9.52 so I didn't have to enter my authorization information each time I opened DP. That caused me to have to keep guis opened if I wanted a plugin to run in real time. What really brought that home for me was I worked on a session started in 9.02 and I wanted to render to audio (in real time - I don't use any kind of bounce) the BFD 3 drums. Playing back the rendered audio along with the rest of the session and the drums were way out of time due to the next gen pregen goofiness. So it was either slide the drum audio or re-render it from MIDI which meant having to keep open that HUGE BFD 3 gui. Which sucks because it takes up the better part of my monitor screen.
I've never experienced your problems with Pregen, not saying they don't exist, but it's obviously a configuration issue, and if you're not willing to change that, then switching DAWs is the option of choice.

Quote:
I'm only finishing up what I have to in DP that I can't easily mover over to PT 2019.6. Can't see spending money on DP10 and it's own issues MOTU is struggling to fix but rather those funds are going to getting Falcon 2 at $244.
Falcon is great, the update adds some cool stuff. Again, DP is not broken for everyone, it's pretty obvious that something about your setup breaks PreGen, but not on my setup. Logic has this with system overload messages obviously being an issue of certain plug in combinations.

I'm saying this with over 200 plug ins in my VST and AU folders, I'm just lucky DP wise. Reaper wise, I'm one of the few unlucky ones that cannot run Reasons new Rack plug in, in Reaper. There's a noted bug that Reason acknowledges with Reason Rack in DP10, so Live is the only DAW I use frequently that can run it.

I'm saying flatly, there is no golden horse. I know you hate Avids policies license wise for instance. Every DAW is amazing, and is also a compromise, that's life.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
I think the reason DP's major forum is like you say because it's the same old clique/in crowd that's been there for years who sneer at anyone who doesn't have the know-how they do. I'm talking MLC and his ilk. Same old same old farts. I haven't been a member there in some time as I called King James on his pomposity and he couldn't take the criticism. That guy can be such a dick at times it ain't funny.
MLC is def a "get off my lawn type"
James is pretty metal. Don't mess with that guy, and don't bring up the PDF manual!

Shout out to Shooshie though, he seems like a genuinely sweet person, and uber talented.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Mastering View Post
MLC is def a "get off my lawn type"
James is pretty metal. Don't mess with that guy, and don't bring up the PDF manual!

Shout out to Shooshie though, he seems like a genuinely sweet person, and uber talented.
In addition to MLC there's also the other Mike - Halloran. A lot of what he posts about computers and OSX is plain wrong and/or misleading. As far as James I liked dishing it out to him - he can dish it out but can't take the return fire. Is he still blocking the word Reaper?

Shooshie is one of the few people over there I trust. Monkey Man is another.

I know it ticked off a number of the regulars there when MOTU did a pdf manual for DP9. I talked to Magic Dave about it on the phone and he said the printing costs would have been prohibitive to do a printed manual not to mention the environmental costs.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #416
Deleted 9895bca
Guest
Same old, same old . . . personal attacks. Dog with a bone.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #417
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musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 9895bca View Post
Same old, same old . . . personal attacks. Dog with a bone.
It's true what I wrote - unless you've been there you wouldn't know what was what.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #418
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
It's true what I wrote - unless you've been there you wouldn't know what was what.
It's more of a comment on how we're all well aware that you don't like Motunation, it's moderator or most of it's regular contributors.

The Logic forums are all pretty much filled with people trying to sell you tutorials, the Ableton forum is heavily moderated, and the Reason forums are notorious for censorship among other things. Pro Tools forums have their issues etc. etc.

This place is OK, but most forums are a disaster in some way, either people who tolerate no criticism of the DAW the forum is about, or who do nothing but criticize the DAW. Most people lack balance.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #419
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdman42 View Post
as noted already above and a few more.
  • chunks
  • Video hit point calculator
  • Video punches and streamers
  • V-Racks

to name a few. I don't use DP anymore though because it lacks other things I like better in other DAW's such as LogicPro and Cubase. DP doesn't have midi regions for one thing. In general I don't like the GUI.
DP rules for me.

It's fast, intuitive, and the only app. you probably don't need a "toolbar".

It has one if you want it, but Motu was smart enough to know what you would probably be doing in whatever window is open and it sort of just defaults to that tool for that window somehow.

I've never used the toolbar in (25?) years.

The streamers function, which now works great with no hit to the CPU (was not always that way) is "superlative"! (four syllables for those who count). I could not work without it.

They sometimes add stuff that makes thing bad for awhile (like automatic rendering of VI's), but they fix them and get them working. The auto-rendering was really glitchy when it debuted as something you can't choose to turn off, but in 9.52 it's pretty much solved.

I wish they would get notation up to where Cubase/Nuendo is, but other than that it pretty much does everything I need very well.

It's still my favorite DAW.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #420
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Everything you mentioned, jim, are reasons why DP is a good DAW. And indeed, it has many great qualities.

But still, it lags in market share. Why?
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