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Why are serge panel synths so expensive? Modular Synthesizers
Old 12th March 2018
  #31
It has it's own sound, neither Euro or 5U.
It's closer to Buchla, but a tad more subtractive in design.
There are some truly outstanding and exciting modules in Serge, that aren't available in any other format, although saying that some Make Noise are close and now you have Serge made for Euro by Random Source.
The basic Serge filter is nice. The DUSG is outstanding (similar to Maths). The UAP output (with panning). The Wavemultiplier is superb. I like the Resonant EQ. The NTO is a fantastic oscillator.
Lots to like about Serge.
I think two panels is a good minimum.
Old 12th March 2018
  #32
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I think two panels is a good minimum.
What do you mean with panels? Modules?

Sorry for asking. Non-native speaker here.
Old 12th March 2018
  #33
The panels are pre-set. A collection of Serge modules.
Since the late 90's you don't get to choose the modules usually.
So a panel is a single row of modules. They are all joined together, so no removing modules and no rearranging the order.
Old 12th March 2018
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
.. Serge made for Euro by Random Source.
...
I really miss the "smooth and stepped generator". Strange, because I have the component modules to recreate it. But there's something about that module's layout that just inspires weird patches.
Old 12th March 2018
  #35
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Derp's Avatar
Interesting topic. I can't say that I've ever heard 'the sound' of Serge in music that has been released. Anybody got any good examples?

I wonder the same question OP has, but in regards to Buchla. It seems to me like Buchla is almost unreasonably expensive. I'd love to have a Buchla system, but if I sold my entire rig and bought one, it would still be a small system because of the price. I know guys like Sputnik and Make Noise bring some of the Buchla flare to Eurorack, but man I would love to get my hands on a real 200e one day.
Old 12th March 2018
  #36
Look out for the Catalyst Buchla 100 modules for Eurorack.

Serge:
This is one of my three panels, which I sold to Djangosfire, the video maker:
Old 12th March 2018
  #37
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
This is one of my three panels, which I sold to Djangosfire, the video maker:
JESUS, that's aggressive! I've gotta get me some of that! Random Source Serge is a pretty accurate recreation of that flow, right? If not, point me in the right direction, please? *armed with a credit card*
Old 12th March 2018
  #38
So far I only have the Random Source Wavemultiplier and it is very accurate to the 4U version.
A friend who owned an original Serge for years also has most of the Random Source modules and says they are excellent.
I think we both have RS made modules.... there are quite a few DIY or 'professionally' built versions. I can't vouch for them.
The RS made ones are quite thin on the ground.
Old 13th March 2018
  #39
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So I bought the NTO and I can honestly say it's the fattest sounding oscillator I've ever owned. Rich and dense...
Closest to 5U I've heard in euro.

It was expensive, but it's worth every penny.
Old 13th March 2018
  #40
I hear that Random Source Serge operates at different voltage and audio levels from other Eurorack. Bit of a hassle.
I also hear that the NTO is awesome.
I had one in my STS Serge panel and it was very good.
Old 13th March 2018
  #41
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Look out for the Catalyst Buchla 100 modules for Eurorack.

Serge:
This is one of my three panels, which I sold to Djangosfire, the video maker:
whats the difference between a wavefolder and a wavemultiplier?
Old 13th March 2018
  #42
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Stolle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I hear that Random Source Serge operates at different voltage and audio levels from other Eurorack. Bit of a hassle.
I also hear that the NTO is awesome.
I had one in my STS Serge panel and it was very good.
Do you mean that they exceed the 12v limit somehow? Otherwise I can’t see how there could be a conflict given that there seems to be no agreed standard. My Wiard stuff is all at +\- 10v.
Old 13th March 2018
  #43
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekanik View Post
whats the difference between a wavefolder and a wavemultiplier?
I might be wrong about this (there's surprisingly little information on this subject online), but they're both forms of waveshapers. A wave folder basically clips the top and bottom on a waveform but rather than squaring it off like a clipper or distortion, it causes the wave to fold inward upon itself. A wave multiplier on the other hand actually takes the wave and multiplies it so that more than one instance of it happens in the course of a wave cycle. A very common example of this is waveform animators or 'supersaw' waveforms. The unison saw sound is faked by including multiple instances of a waveform and animating the distance of these waves to give the effect of a detuned unison saw.
Old 13th March 2018
  #44
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Stolle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Look out for the Catalyst Buchla 100 modules for Eurorack.

Serge:
This is one of my three panels, which I sold to Djangosfire, the video maker:
That video is amazing! I wonder if the it is the sound of the wave multiplier which makes it sound to incredible, or of it is Djangosfire's skills at making great patches which is most important. Hmm... I don't have a dedicated wave folder yet. Off to Random*Source's webpage. I really shouldn't... but I am tempted.
Old 13th March 2018
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolle View Post
Do you mean that they exceed the 12v limit somehow? Otherwise I can’t see how there could be a conflict given that there seems to be no agreed standard. My Wiard stuff is all at +\- 10v.
They are much lower than the Eurorack standard. So it's easy to overload them and not trigger them properly.
Old 13th March 2018
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekanik View Post
whats the difference between a wavefolder and a wavemultiplier?
The VCM doesn't sound like a wavefolder to me.
Here's the description:
The middle section generates a sweep of the odd harmonics (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13th) when a sine wave is applied to its input and the FOLD knob is turned up or a control voltage is swept from low to high. This effect is similar to overblowing a wind pipe closed at one end. A second input is included to allow two signals to be mixed before processing. This module can be used to explore timbral areas beyond the range of ring modulation.

The bottom Wave Multiplier performs non-linear wavehaping known as full-wave rectification, but with sophisticated level-compensating conditioning as well. The circuit uses three full-wave rectifier sections linked in a very refined controllable format. Sweeping the VC input over its range will produce a smooth timbral transition using the even harmonics (second, fourth, and eighth). Many other partials are present in this basic sound, however, and the sonorities are very rich and varied. The white output is a “squared up” version of the black one, resembling an harmonically enhanced pulse width modulation.
Old 14th March 2018
  #47
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
The VCM doesn't sound like a wavefolder to me.
Here's the description:
The middle section generates a sweep of the odd harmonics (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13th) when a sine wave is applied to its input and the FOLD knob is turned up or a control voltage is swept from low to high. This effect is similar to overblowing a wind pipe closed at one end. A second input is included to allow two signals to be mixed before processing. This module can be used to explore timbral areas beyond the range of ring modulation.

The bottom Wave Multiplier performs non-linear wavehaping known as full-wave rectification, but with sophisticated level-compensating conditioning as well. The circuit uses three full-wave rectifier sections linked in a very refined controllable format. Sweeping the VC input over its range will produce a smooth timbral transition using the even harmonics (second, fourth, and eighth). Many other partials are present in this basic sound, however, and the sonorities are very rich and varied. The white output is a “squared up” version of the black one, resembling an harmonically enhanced pulse width modulation.
I tried recreating it with my wmd ultrafold. but could not get that close to be honest.
tried modulating it with both a doepfer vc lfo and a SE oscillation. and noticed when using a saw to modulate, sometimes the lfo was better and sometime the vco. turns out the lfo was 0-6v or so and the vco was +-3v approx. some sounds sounded awful and harsh/disted when modulating with the lfo and sounded very clean nice with the vco.

Also pretty much every wave except sines sounded like crap when feeding 2 in at the same time, however this was when I tested with the lfo as modulator. and now its too late to do vco testing, its bedtime. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

Think I'm gonna feed the signal into a filter first, the modcan multimode. since it kinda rectifies the signal to some degree i have noticed.
Old 14th March 2018
  #48
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mekanik's Avatar
 

anyone tried filtering the ingoing signal before a wavefolder?

I did. but most filters didn't really provide anything special.
The doepfer a102 diode did though, really agressive stuff was achieved.
funniest and by far best one was the modcan multimode though. I dont exactly know what it does but it does stuff none of my other filters do. good sounding yet evil and beefy somehow. in combination with the wavefolder that is. maybe its because it cant self oscillate?

if you have a wavefolder try feeding it a filtered signal. I found a sweetspot and set an lfo around that spot.

but i feel i might have to get me one of those serge ones too.
Old 16th March 2018
  #49
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mekanik's Avatar
 

did some recording of my wavefolder. the wmd ultrafold.

source is a constant square bassy tone from the richer osc 2. that goes into a modcan multimode filter, lp out.

im modulating the fold on the wmd with a slow sine lfo, knob is centered.
wave shift knob centered
feedback 2 o clock
drive 2:30ish
no modulations for these.

i am however modulating the cutoff of the filter with another sine lfo. the lfo is attenuated so it only sweeps around a sweetspot kinda. best part happens around 10 o clock on the filter freq knob.

I'm just sweeping the cutoff knob of the filter there first for while and then the rez. it is however never going below 12 o clock rez on the knob.

until the end where you can hear me dropping down rez to 0 and fully opening the filter to hear the sound without the filter (there is still modulation of the filter going on though).

yeah I'd say certain filters can really spice up the sound of wavefolders. my other filtes though, yeah well not so much to be honest. My theory for this is that the modcan does some actual rectifying (waveform goes more plus than minus out of the filter). just listen how tame it sounds at the end whree nothing is added by the filter.

sure you can play around with the source freq, and both lfo freqs and depths.
this is just one example.

also sending a saw to the filter sounds almost identical.
Attached Files

girandole torsades.mp3 (9.29 MB, 413 views)

Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
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tyhodson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekanik View Post
whats the difference between a wavefolder and a wavemultiplier?
I was wondering about this too, so I dug into mine a bit and wrote about the Wave Multipliers function block here:
Serge Modular Synthesizer Info: Wave Multipliers (VCM)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
Kja
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Buchla is still through hole that they do it themselves, serve probably the same.. Much different having to spend a day soldering parts to a board then a computer do it in ten minutes.
The real question is why are they not making new cheaper smt instruments to go with there legacy stuff that's crazy expensive like moog is doing?
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