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Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer
Old 20th October 2020
  #901
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Ok finished the first 914. They didn't have the d-shaft parts in stock at the time, so I got some T18 and some solid shaft parts. So it's a bit of a franken-fixed-filter-bank! Lol! Came out OK though. Plays nicely now.

Replaced the OEM pots with ALPHA, and put a larger knob with better angular resolution.
=====
Oh, finally I see the pink. It's the night-red splash lighting. I didn't see it until it was all squashed in the thumb nail.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-46d2c082-1758-4724-8ce9-d9e1174ec4c3.jpg   Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-083d76d0-260d-46f7-a8e8-f32375d9f1d2.jpg   Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-7ed5beae-8cbe-4658-a323-548826ec8434.jpg  
Old 20th October 2020
  #902
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"Why to shwap der knobben-heimers?" You say?

Instead of the nice brass ring to control rotation stability in the part on the right, we have the old "squirt some viscous goop into it" type of fluid control (pun not-intended). As a result, setting values are inconsistent, leading to the nudge-nudge-knob to fine tune the value.

Now the knobs are much better feeling, more accurate, quicker dialing.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-4f39484b-9bde-4f0c-839c-a3406a8f2687.jpg  
Old 20th October 2020 | Show parent
  #903
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
Where's the link?
ops

https://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/BANK/index.html
Old 22nd October 2020
  #904
vlz
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Behringer announced they're doing a MIDI to CV/gate module and it should be out by the end of the year.
Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
Behringer announced they're doing a MIDI to CV/gate module and it should be out by the end of the year.
Excellent news! Now if only they would release some more after that ie: 905 reverberator, 904c filter coupler etc.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #906
vlz
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So here's another short vid of our modular in action. A patch by my colleague Iain McCurdy, which I'm sure you'll recognise.

Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
So here's another short vid of our modular in action. A patch by my colleague Iain McCurdy, which I'm sure you'll recognise.

Pretty good! :-) love how the 923 is a natural white noise processor too!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #908
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914 PCB ready for schematic tracing and upgrades! Removed the ground planes and parts for easy viewing.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-aad6a402-4401-4afc-a41c-a43d5114767b.jpg   Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-1d986049-17bb-4cd0-8288-3af14a1fe364.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #909
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
914 PCB ready for schematic tracing and upgrades! Removed the ground planes and parts for easy viewing.
You'll end up cloning the clone.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #910
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960 fun today! Did a repot and reknob. Much nicer now!

So far, I've done the 914, 960, 961, 911, 911A, 923, and a couple of VCO's and filters. Still waiting on parts. Didn't settle on a shaft type until 1/2 way through :-)
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-8d55b544-0b40-4a71-98b3-d9f041db8244.jpg   Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-9b8c9324-602e-4aae-89e3-85de0af3ce2c.jpg   Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-8966e4af-83f3-4394-a6cb-2396900b3b09.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
960 fun today! Did a repot and reknob. Much nicer now!

So far, I've done the 914, 960, 961, 911, 911A, 923, and a couple of VCO's and filters. Still waiting on parts. Didn't settle on a shaft type until 1/2 way through :-)
Are you going to record some music after all your mods are completed?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn303 View Post
Are you going to record some music after all your mods are completed?
Lol! Huh? Music???

Do you want to hear something specific?

I play all day, but never record anything. I don't like programming anything like DAWs and Sequencers, so it all comes down to performance; and that means practice. I prefer just endless improvisation I guess. I've never tried to learn anyone else's songs.

Seem's like I'd rather open something up and fiddle with it than work on a song lately. :-)
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #913
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
Lol! Huh? Music???

Do you want to hear something specific?

I play all day, but never record anything. I don't like programming anything like DAWs and Sequencers, so it all comes down to performance; and that means practice. I prefer just endless improvisation I guess. I've never tried to learn anyone else's songs.

Seem's like I'd rather open something up and fiddle with it than work on a song lately. :-)
That's what I do too, mostly fiddle. I only use the computer to record, and a DAW as a multitrack recorder if it comes to that. My synths aren't midied up, except for the modules which are connected to controllers.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #914
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@ SkyWriter

Any specific reason for changing the pots on the 960? Just for feel or were they also all over the place? It's unquantized anyway which is fine to do it by ear or for modulation. If you stick it in a quantizer than it doesn't matter if the pots are nit precise from one value to the other as you just have to be close enough
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
Lol! Huh? Music???

Do you want to hear something specific?
well not asking for a full track, more like a demo with the differences
your mods have made to the B55.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
@ SkyWriter

Any specific reason for changing the pots on the 960? Just for feel or were they also all over the place? It's unquantized anyway which is fine to do it by ear or for modulation. If you stick it in a quantizer than it doesn't matter if the pots are nit precise from one value to the other as you just have to be close enough
Yeah, good question. I tend to do the expose part on MW and drop an update here. I've outlined over the course of the last couple of months the problems I've found related to the pots Behringer has been using in these products. Most of gripe was related to log taper performance. Rev log application wasn't effected much. Linear taper has the least problems in these applications. And yet...

The 960 uses lin 5K pots. The issue with B5K (and all behringer pots I've inspected) is the tensioner; the device that regulates rotation rate. Proper tensioner behavior assists in fine tuning presenting a constant tension. Commonly a warped brass ring will provide this feature However, Behringer forgoes the brass and uses a little squirt of goop. As a result fine tuning Behringer pots consists of nudging and tapping the control, rather than just turning it. I find this terribly frustrating. Also, not overly fond of little squirts of goop. In anything.

Additionally, removing the pots helps in documenting what's there for future modifications; and there are plenty. As well as facilitating some of those modifications when it's a bit further along. I get a sense of build quality and materials in the process. Someone always goes first. :-)

I also like to use a solid shaft with a set screw so I can offset the pointer if needed. Which makes many more, and better knobs, available. I prefer a 16mm knob to the 12mm knob for much more angular accuracy.

So, while the log taper 05A105 on the 911 was the first issue with pots, it quickly became apparent that I had to replace all of the pots - because that's what I do :-) not that anyone else has to do it all too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn303 View Post
well not asking for a full track, more like a demo with the differences
your mods have made to the B55.
Ok, good. I was going to get around to that. Just wanted to finish all my 1/2 done project before I start another. But, yes it's pretty easy to see on a video all this stuff I've mentioned.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
That's what I do too, mostly fiddle. I only use the computer to record, and a DAW as a multitrack recorder if it comes to that. My synths aren't midied up, except for the modules which are connected to controllers.
Yeah, that's my basement studio. Up in the bedroom space; I just have a laptop, a mixer, and a 2-channel scope. I use an Apogee Jam just to get audio into my iPad. I'm just not setup for any demos.

I did program in a simple 4 note bass line and vamped around on it for an hour. Fun!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #918
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Sebastian N's Avatar
 

thanks for the details. good to know it's nothing i can't live with. i guess i could go and change all the pots as well if i decide to get one but i'm just afraid i'll get lazy and it will sit there for 8 months with 9 pots changed and a bunch of replacements in a bag next to it
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
thanks for the details. good to know it's nothing i can't live with. i guess i could go and change all the pots as well if i decide to get one but i'm just afraid i'll get lazy and it will sit there for 8 months with 9 pots changed and a bunch of replacements in a bag next to it
Given what they produced, I don't expect many will want to go the route I did. The gear, as is, is still great!

I only entered eurorack modular because of the price* of the Moog clones; and the additional work to bring them up to expectations is something I enjoy, so it's a monstrously good deal for me.

But for all the DIY folks, it's a straight forward easy upgrade you can do as little or as much as you think you need. And if you don't use S-trig, you really only have the pots tensioner to deal with - except the 923.


*-that and I had the Prologue project that would benefit from it. Whenever I stopped getting distracted by it, that is :-)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #920
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from all the system 55 series the only one i am really interested in is the 960. but what prologue project? are you repotting that as well?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
from all the system 55 series the only one i am really interested in is the 960. but what prologue project? are you repotting that as well?
I'm also working on the Plaits and Elements model code bases for Prologue. Peter Allwin did the first port, I've been adding modulations.

The SDK platform lacks any debugging tools, so the original hardware is useful for comparisons. I always liked System 55 architecture, so seemed a no-brainer from a fun perspective.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #922
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ah, ok. i guess i missed your posts in those threads. a man of many talents it seems. wish korg would have developed a nice software platform for it. or at least adopt something like max for so more people would develop oscillators and fx. more non programmers like myself. at least make it easy to mod existing programs. i really like the dw oscillator (i like the original synth sound) but maybe i would like different versions of waveforms etc. either way, i'm glad there's people out there putting in the work for free or payed. i hope korg keeps this idea alive with more products. maybe more in the groovebox category
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
ah, ok. i guess i missed your posts in those threads. a man of many talents it seems. wish korg would have developed a nice software platform for it. or at least adopt something like max for so more people would develop oscillators and fx. more non programmers like myself. at least make it easy to mod existing programs. i really like the dw oscillator (i like the original synth sound) but maybe i would like different versions of waveforms etc. either way, i'm glad there's people out there putting in the work for free or payed. i hope korg keeps this idea alive with more products. maybe more in the groovebox category
I'm an engineer first, and musician second really. They're both fun. :-)

The first version, while pretty restrictive, can do some very impressive stuff. I really haven't touched an other synth since I got it, oh and the modular. Lol!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #924
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yeah, prologue seems to be an awesome synth. haven't got one yet but it's definitely on the buy list. missed out on a used one a couple of months ago. guy wasn't local and in the rare case i buy something used, i wanna see it first. do you have the 8 or 16? i'm not a great keyboard player so i feel that the 8 would be enough (the compressor doesn't do much for me) and i generally never use dual layers on synths
Old 4 weeks ago
  #925
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I bought the XD module first to try the digital engine. Impressed, I sold the XD and a K-2 - that I was not impressed with - and bought a P16.

I don't often do layers, unless I'm out of ideas on one layer and need a something special. When I do, I really appreciate having the controls on the panel rather than in menus. Splits and Cross fades also use the controls, although I don't find myself using those yet.

I spend most of my time voicing the digital engine, the analog is mostly a bed for it. Of course, I'm always mucking with it - although the Behringer modular has been a bit of a side-street. I have a list of projects for it I'm working my way through.

If you get a good deal on an 8 no sense passing it up. I was going to get an 8, then saw a good price on the 16. It's all intentions until the sale goes through anyway :0)
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #926
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
yeah, prologue seems to be an awesome synth. haven't got one yet but it's definitely on the buy list. missed out on a used one a couple of months ago. guy wasn't local and in the rare case i buy something used, i wanna see it first. do you have the 8 or 16? i'm not a great keyboard player so i feel that the 8 would be enough (the compressor doesn't do much for me) and i generally never use dual layers on synths
I think the 16 is extra special, it can have a very rich sound with all those voices.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #927
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Much of what I posted on MW

Welp, I'm 96.2%* done with pot/knob swaps. Just waiting on the four dual-gang CP3A-M Master controls.

Couple observations:
- Of the three types of knobs; set screw, d-shaft, T18, the set screw are the best. The d-shaft knobs on the OEM pots don't have enough grab at the proper knob depth. And the T18's are hard to align. The screw screws go on easy, and continuously adjustable rotation and depth. I use two strips of cut up credit card taped together as a depth gauge. Although the D-shaft on ALPHA knobs do fit snuggly, at identical cost, I would go set screw.
- Tuning is a breeze. The fluid bearing tensioners have non-uniform tension - the worst of which is at low velocity where viscosity is minimal there is no tension. As a result, when my fingers leave the knob, unless I'm very careful I'll impart a slight off-axis deflection, and out of tune it goes. Then I have to nudge and brush it back into place. Annoying.
- The ALPHA mechanical bearing exhibits moderate uniform tension at all speeds. As a result, the controls stays put as soon as I reduce angular force. This aids in all pitch related controls either through direct manipulation of CV modulation, or any other use cases involving fine pitch accuracy.
- The 16mm set screw knob aids in increased angular resolution, providing finer control positioning, while not imparting destructive torque to a high wear electro-mechanical component; common points of reliability failures. With proper depth control, much of the original panel vernier is still visible.

- I can see the pointer now. :0)

- There's still plenty of grab space left for getting to the knob, although it is less than before. But this is eurorack. :miley:
- Use the right tools, correctly, and it's a very easy upgrade. I spent about 1-2 hours four times a week or so.

So, now that the majority of the mechanicals are done; time to do a set of 911's, and start tackling the caps and IC issues.

*-103 out of 107 dials.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-d3805dd5-beea-42ec-a0f1-68a4ab5ad9ba.jpg   Behringer System 55 Modular Synthesizer-7664eb80-6042-4af4-a4f3-803f3b62093c.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #928
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Sebastian N's Avatar
 

the rack is looking pretty sweet. how do you find the behringer cases? especially with the mutable stuff? any noise issues in the case with both digital and analog modules?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
the rack is looking pretty sweet. how do you find the behringer cases? especially with the mutable stuff? any noise issues in the case with both digital and analog modules?
Whilest, I've kept most of the least susceptible modules away from the digital stuff, I haven't noticed a problem with what's plugged in where. Whatever RF is blasting away in there doesn't interfere with the audio aspect of it. So pretty good. Still with my third case, I'll be moving the digital even further a field, and packaging it with a Complement B style of dual 960 + 961 row, with the Mutable way on top. And the Analog-only modules in the other two racks all modified eventually.

Now it's time to get to the other stuff on the list.
Behringer Moog System 55 Issues list
1) 911 T1-3 timing. Replace 05A105 with true-log A1M. - done
2) 911A Delay timing, 05A105 -> A1M - done
3) 961 B-column timing 05A105 -> A1M - done
4) 904A, 904B regeneration, replace C50K (reverse log 50K) - done
5) 923 HPF & LPF, replace C50K - done
6) 921 Sine and Triangle symmetry, adjust factory settings for Sub-audio. - done
7) 921 vs 921B pulse polarity? Eh....
8) VCO Temperature compensation - TBD
9) 960 3rd row timing 0-2:2-10 non-monotonicity. - TBD
10) 904A&B tracking performance - TBD
11) Just replace all the pots already - done! :0)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #930
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if there is noise, the first place it will show up will be the power supply and through the busboard. that's generally where the issues come from. sure a lot of things can generate noise but that's kinda what i found to be problematic. so it's good to know that they mix well together in the case.
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