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Behringer TD3 DIY Mods
Old 8th January 2020 | Show parent
  #331
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
d24 -
??? D24 is part of the -14V charge pump.
D22 would fit your description better.
We don't have any current limiting resistor there, so the current is limited just by T29 and the supply.
... check 12V if you see any dips (that would modulate everything).
Old 8th January 2020 | Show parent
  #332
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antto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordcore
Additional note regarding the "Acid Bites" example: it has eighth notes, not sixteenth.
That is why the note off time is only 1/4 (on time =3/4) note length, not 1/2 (on time =1/2) note lenght.
eh? that track name sounded familiar

when i checked, i've done a pattern approximation of it long ago, and it's 6 notes


2 years ago
Attached Files
Old 8th January 2020 | Show parent
  #333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordcore View Post
??? D24 is part of the -14V charge pump.
D22 would fit your description better.
We don't have any current limiting resistor there, so the current is limited just by T29 and the supply.
... check 12V if you see any dips (that would modulate everything).
sheesh, i need better glasses... d22 it is!

corrected in the previous post
Old 9th January 2020 | Show parent
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
i gett sreeeechy stuff with this - on reso, so hm...

well, to ad to confusion and options, while you're at it, also check top of d22 (!! corrected from d24, don't do d24, srry!) - also increases release but in contrast to d17 (accented notes no release) this adds to all --- hope nordcore won't kill me...
Hahaha Nah, I guess nordcore is a cool guy

Cap to D22 is quite nice as a special effect!


For now I´ve settled on the following mods and am quite satisfied (for now):

1. Trim pot for pwm
2. Trim pot for R68 to fine tune shortest decay (=accent decay time)
3. C52 reverted to 15n as...
4. C51 @ 220n takes away the spiky note on impulses and
5. a .47uf at D17 top to board gnd adds a short but nice release, so that...

...the TD doesn´t sound staccato-y any more, which is exactly what I wanted to achieve. If nordcore comes up with a more suitable solution for the env release time things might change again. For now it´s quite nice. Especially the spiky note on glitches bothered me from early on, happy they are gone now.

Edit:

Changed No. 5: Removed .47uf at D17 and added 1uf at d22 top to board gnd.
Reason: Now notes and accented notes seem to have the "right" release time, at least to my ears and the accent just sounds bouncier due to the release/decay.

Done! (For now)

Edit2 (totally forgot about this one):
One of the 1st mods was the R44 mod (added a 9.7k) to lower cutoff at min setting, pot range still enough. Might fine tune that when I get a real TB in my hands but for now it´ll do as is.


Edit3: Some audio that demonstrates the above mods

The "purr test": Listen for no staccato-y notes anymore, TD purrs like a cat now Overall a much much more rubbery and bouncy sound.

Wink Higher State and AcidBites tests - in the ballpark now I guess.

Thanks a ton to Maffez and nordcore for all the valuable input and encouragemenent to be able to mod this thing

In the beginning it was great to have a somewhat cheap "303-a-like" ersatz, but now due to the mods the TD can really hold its own.
Attached Files

TD-3 Mods_cplte_1_ABites.mp3 (3.92 MB, 2694 views)

TD-3 Mods_cplte_1_P3B.mp3 (4.61 MB, 2325 views)

TD-3 Mods_cplte_1_Wink_HState.mp3 (5.01 MB, 2411 views)

TD-3 Mods_cplte_1_the_purr_test.mp3 (8.63 MB, 2497 views)


Last edited by el-folie; 9th January 2020 at 10:45 PM..
Old 9th January 2020 | Show parent
  #335
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I really dig this modding state, sounds great. Here´s one more to show the funky bounce it´s capable of now

Edit:
It looks like even the smiley is rocking to the beat of this pattern lololol
Attached Files

Last edited by el-folie; 11th January 2020 at 08:29 PM..
Old 9th January 2020 | Show parent
  #336
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
I really dig this modding state, sounds great. Here´s one more to show the funky bounce it´s capable of now
dat funky bounce! yup - sounds ace and will be implemented in mine as soon as the tayda parcel arrives

glad this worked out so nicely!

also like the purr test above
Old 10th January 2020 | Show parent
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
dat funky bounce! yup - sounds ace and will be implemented in mine as soon as the tayda parcel arrives

glad this worked out so nicely!

also like the purr test above
Yeah The TD now bites, smacks, bounces and hits (hard), particularly the bouncy bite is quite interesting to listen to. Maybe the caps can be fine-tuned for even better response but for now it´s good enough for me.

Didn´t know Tayda also have a web shop, only knew about components. Do they ship internationally? But that´d mean additional import fees to Europe as they are located in Asia I guess?!?
Old 10th January 2020 | Show parent
  #338
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
Yeah The TD now bites, smacks, bounces and hits (hard), particularly the bouncy bite is quite interesting to listen to. Maybe the caps can be fine-tuned for even better response but for now it´s good enough for me.

Didn´t know Tayda also have a web shop, only knew about components. Do they ship internationally? But that´d mean additional import fees to Europe as they are located in Asia I guess?!?
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/

standard shipping wiggles around import in ways i don't understand, but it does
Old 10th January 2020 | Show parent
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/

standard shipping wiggles around import in ways i don't understand, but it does
Great, thanks!
Old 10th January 2020
  #340
played with the rubber mod thingy today and will also do it

220nf at c51 and 1uf (but will check back against 0.47uf more) at top of d17

edit - some pic attached
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer TD3 DIY Mods-dscn4544.jpg  

Last edited by Maffez; 11th January 2020 at 10:37 AM.. Reason: update
Old 10th January 2020 | Show parent
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
played with the rubber mod thingy today and will also do it

22nf at c51 and 1uf (but will check back against 0.47uf more) at top of d17
Just a few notes about my tinkering:

I think C51 is just another way of de-clicking the gate signal. I found that .47u got completely rid of the note on clicking, 220n left a bit of a low thump, which I thought was ok, one could maybe lower it to test for when the clicking gets too loud again (or is as loud as on the TB). I have a hunch that 22n might be too small to have any significant effect, unless C52 already is at 47-100n. I reverted C52 back to 15n as it wasn´t needed anymore with C51 at 220n.

Also, both D17 plus D22 with added caps seemed too much of attack/release added to still be in 303 realm, but why not...
Old 11th January 2020
  #342
was working a bit on vco things, not so super classic but hey...

here's progress on vco soft sync - needs some fine-tuning but not half bad i think



and here's a subosc based on sh101 circuits (just one octave down) fed into the external filter in

Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
was working a bit on vco things, not so super classic but hey...

here's progress on vco soft sync - needs some fine-tuning but not half bad i think



and here's a subosc based on sh101 circuits (just one octave down) fed into the external filter in

Yes, yes, yes - great growl on the osc wave with a sub, excellent!

And accent decay mod - nice move
Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #344
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And just to reiterate how psyched I am about the current modding state, here´s a new pattern that I just can´t stop listening to, so hypnotic.

To me it shreds about 97,9 % like an original 303, maybe pulse width and tuning/cv spread are still a bit different, but man, this one bites, rubs and bounces like mad. Happy

Listen to it loud
Attached Files

TD-3 Mods_cplte_1_hypnotic.mp3 (8.59 MB, 2585 views)

Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #345
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks for posting pics of the 'rubberification' mod - that is very useful for those who might want to try such mods but can't easily follow the technical / schematical jargon.

I think the rubberification mod sounds fantastic!

Thanks to those who have figured out this and other modifications... expanding the horizons!
Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #346
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
And just to reiterate how psyched I am about the current modding state, here´s a new pattern that I just can´t stop listening to, so hypnotic.

To me it shreds about 97,9 % like an original 303, maybe pulse width and tuning/cv spread are still a bit different, but man, this one bites, rubs and bounces like mad. Happy

Listen to it loud

Awesome... ! Very nice indeed, rubbery & funky...

Are all the modifications to arrive at this sound described in your earlier post #334 ?
Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE201 View Post
Awesome... ! Very nice indeed, rubbery & funky...

Are all the modifications to arrive at this sound described in your earlier post #334 ?
Yes, exactly, no more changes since then.
Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #348
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
And just to reiterate how psyched I am about the current modding state, here´s a new pattern that I just can´t stop listening to, so hypnotic.

To me it shreds about 97,9 % like an original 303, maybe pulse width and tuning/cv spread are still a bit different, but man, this one bites, rubs and bounces like mad. Happy

Listen to it loud
nice! and yup, that was a good dynamic between the three of us - and we quite quickly go there too

say, if you don't mind, post a short clip of how you tuned your square wave, maybe just a longer note with reso to zero and filter fully open - sometimes i kinda can't decide between settings - that'd be sweet
Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
nice! and yup, that was a good dynamic between the three of us - and we quite quickly go there too

say, if you don't mind, post a short clip of how you tuned your square wave, maybe just a longer note with reso to zero and filter fully open - sometimes i kinda can't decide between settings - that'd be sweet
Ha! It´s the same for me, can´t decide where to set it as every setting has something to offer another one doesn´t. For the most time I keep pulse width exactly at the point where no additional harmonics can be heard, so exactly 50% naked/thin/hollow sound. Unfortunately, at that point, the audio level is also quite a bit lower than the saw wave form. Is this the same on a TB?

Will post some audio...

Edit:
Here comes some audio, slowest speed, 8 steps c down with slides, 8 steps high c up with slides.
Different knob settings for you to compare to, description in the audio files:

Last edited by el-folie; 11th January 2020 at 08:15 PM..
Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #350
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antto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie
Ha! It´s the same for me, can´t decide where to set it as every setting has something to offer another one doesn´t. For the most time I keep pulse width exactly at the point where no additional harmonics can be heard, so exactly 50% naked/thin/hollow sound. Unfortunately, at that point, the audio level is also quite a bit lower than the saw wave form. Is this the same on a TB?

Will post some audio...
that's nonsense, the TB-303 square is never a square
the middle edge is variable (softer on lower notes, it even gets a knee), and the "pulse width" varies with frequency, so at lower frequencies it's below 50%, at some freq it's sorta 50%, and at higher frequencies it goes up
it's not linear either

you might be modding it to get close to "50%" at "the current frequency" but it won't be 50% on other notes.. and you're wasting your time with this in general
if you don't wanna waste your time - you need a reference, calibrate it to that, and move on
Old 11th January 2020 | Show parent
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antto View Post
that's nonsense, the TB-303 square is never a square
the middle edge is variable (softer on lower notes, it even gets a knee), and the "pulse width" varies with frequency, so at lower frequencies it's below 50%, at some freq it's sorta 50%, and at higher frequencies it goes up
it's not linear either

you might be modding it to get close to "50%" at "the current frequency" but it won't be 50% on other notes.. and you're wasting your time with this in general
if you don't wanna waste your time - you need a reference, calibrate it to that, and move on
You know that gag about Captain Obvious, right?
Old 11th January 2020
  #352
fanx for the files, el-folie

total hollow for the lows i show it goes (badumm...)

as for volume drop - I'll replace r24 with a 200k pot for drive, so that can be compensated
Old 11th January 2020
  #353
Here for the gear
 

Loving this thread! Been following since it was on page 2 or so. Got a TD3 just before xmas and have been enjoying learning the quirky seq. Thinking of modding it soon.

Has anyone updated to the latest firmware yet? I did a couple if days ago and its improved the 303, I think the slide is better.

Old 12th January 2020
  #354
Here for the gear
 

Small audio demo my Standard/default TD-3 vs. Mod TD-3.
The beginning is the standard TD-3..........

From 5.30 min only mod td-3

Thanks for your input to do this....
Attached Files

td- 3 vs. Mod td-3.mp3 (8.73 MB, 2462 views)

Old 12th January 2020 | Show parent
  #355
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonR View Post
Small audio demo my Standard TD-3 vs. Mod TD-3.
The beginning is the standard TD-3..........

From 5.30 min only mod td-3

Thanks for your input to do this....
Ha, nice!

I think we struck a boit of gold with this rubber mod
Old 12th January 2020
  #356
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antto's Avatar
the volume envelope is "ruined" i'd say..
there are release tails.. i can clearly hear it..

add distortion and it's gonna make it even more obvious versus a 303
Old 12th January 2020 | Show parent
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antto View Post
the volume envelope is "ruined" i'd say..
there are release tails.. i can clearly hear it..

add distortion and it's gonna make it even more obvious versus a 303
Well, this is a >>modding<< thread and maybe RonR just liked what he did...

Apart from that I really like that you can clearly hear something (now)
Old 12th January 2020 | Show parent
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
fanx for the files, el-folie

total hollow for the lows i show it goes (badumm...)

as for volume drop - I'll replace r24 with a 200k pot for drive, so that can be compensated
You´re very welcome... Eventually I´ll buy an RD-8, too, and so will benefit from all the work you already did for modding that one.
Old 12th January 2020 | Show parent
  #359
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by antto View Post
the volume envelope is "ruined" i'd say..
there are release tails.. i can clearly hear it..

add distortion and it's gonna make it even more obvious versus a 303
If you mean the overmodulated/overdrived resonance that was the unchanged td-3.

There the resonance is overmodulated even though the td-3 is original.
This td-3 has a lot of resonace and I had turned the knob too far.

I used 2.2uf on the d22 mod because I liked it.
I do not have a tb303 to compare.
Old 12th January 2020
  #360
glad we all can hear this release trail - this means a) the mod works, b) we have working ears, and c) tastes are different - three cool things in a row

did a little recording of accent time - lowered minimum main env decay to zero and implemented the accent decay time mod - this way you can nicely shift audible/non-audible notes in a pattern
Attached Files

mindecay_accdecay.mp3 (989.4 KB, 1763 views)

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