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Turing Machines - the good, bad, and ugly (it's all good)
Old 3rd November 2019
  #1
Turing Machines - the good, bad, and ugly (it's all good)

I want a couple of Turing Machines. Two, or more. Looped Random, and more. I want it.

Help me pick...

The typical/popular eurorack version seems cool enough. Plus it has those expansion modules. Kind of pricey for all that, though. About $200 for the base module with one Knob and a few jacks and another 2+ $100 in add-ons.

Ok. Maybe. But I want to explore other options.

I know there is a Turing Machine program in the Ornament & Crime. 4x maybe? Is that right? Up tob4x unique ones at once? Is it the same as what's in the popular standalone full-module, algorhythm/functionality wise?

Any preferences amongst you guys?

Other suggestions?

Thanks.
Old 3rd November 2019
  #2
DSC
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DSC's Avatar
Yep, spot on. I love them! I made a couple custom ones with a flexible 'clock' that can go into pure random if you get tired of 'semi' random. Can literally be used for anything.


Old 3rd November 2019
  #3
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Clumsy's Avatar
 

Pamela's New Workout's stepped random output can be looped, so you could have up to eight channels.
Old 4th November 2019
  #4
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Derp's Avatar
The O_C turing machines are freaking awesome, but they do take a little fiddling to get to. (In general, O_C is a good module for its myriad other purposes as well.) If you're wanting to just try it and see what it's about the 2HP ones are very simple, but very fun. Pair it up with a basic quantizer, and you'll get what the Turing Machine is all about. It's a pretty nifty idea; randomized sequences that you can lock on to when you find something you like.
Old 4th November 2019
  #5
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Once I got Marbles, I sold my tricked out, fully expanded Turing Machine. I've found Marbles to be a much better implementation with the related outputs, quantizer, etc. O_c will give you four (as stated), but with only 4 CV ins so your modulation options are limited. There's always a Klee too .
Old 4th November 2019 | Show parent
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Once I got Marbles, I sold my tricked out, fully expanded Turing Machine. I've found Marbles to be a much better implementation with the related outputs, quantizer, etc. O_c will give you four (as stated), but with only 4 CV ins so your modulation options are limited. There's always a Klee too .
Very interesting.

Wasnt even considering Marbles.

And that Klee is something I've never really looked at, but my 2sec Google just now says the TM module is actually based on the Klee?

I need to know more about this Klee. I think I had erroneously assumed they were hella expensive, but I see kits for $350?

Interesting indeed.

Thanks.
Old 4th November 2019 | Show parent
  #7
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
Very interesting.

Wasnt even considering Marbles.

And that Klee is something I've never really looked at, but my 2sec Google just now says the TM module is actually based on the Klee?

I need to know more about this Klee. I think I had erroneously assumed they were hella expensive, but I see kits for $350?

Interesting indeed.

Thanks.
Yes, Klee's are on the expensive side and notoriously difficult to DIY. The fun part with a Klee is that they essentially start with your sequence or pattern and randomize / shift register from there. TM's are pretty much random, leaving you to hunt until you find something that you like. Though I haven't really looked into it much, it sounds like the Qu-Bit Bloom leans more toward the Klee approach.

Marbles can also record CV, then use that for a basis for the shift-register, but I haven't really tried that feature yet.
Old 4th November 2019 | Show parent
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Yes, Klee's are on the expensive side and notoriously difficult to DIY. The fun part with a Klee is that they essentially start with your sequence or pattern and randomize / shift register from there. TM's are pretty much random, leaving you to hunt until you find something that you like. Though I haven't really looked into it much, it sounds like the Qu-Bit Bloom leans more toward the Klee approach.

Marbles can also record CV, then use that for a basis for the shift-register, but I haven't really tried that feature yet.
Fascinating.

I'll be looking hard at Marbles then, and keeping an eye open for used built-Klees.

The Bloom definitely looks cool, btw.
Old 4th November 2019 | Show parent
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
The O_C turing machines are freaking awesome, but they do take a little fiddling to get to. (In general, O_C is a good module for its myriad other purposes as well.) If you're wanting to just try it and see what it's about the 2HP ones are very simple, but very fun. Pair it up with a basic quantizer, and you'll get what the Turing Machine is all about. It's a pretty nifty idea; randomized sequences that you can lock on to when you find something you like.
Right on.

Oddly enough the more I hear about the O&C the less I want one, in the sense that it's too much a Swiss Army Knife and no real Expert In Anything and I'm trying to focus on all the "experts".

What's your take on that? What (beyond being a Swiss Army knife that can do that 4x times at once), what else is the O&C *awesome* at, if anything? Does it do anything better than some other class of modules does that particular thing?

The 2hp tip is a good reminder. I may grab one of those. I was already going to get a 2hp Euclid after recently rewatching that video by mylarmelodies on Better Modular Basslines (where he ultimately lands on a TM + 2hp Euclid).
Old 4th November 2019
  #10
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Derp's Avatar
Bloom is on my wishlist as well, but I'm wondering if it should be. I say that because I drooled until I drowned over Tuesday, and then when I finally got it, I never use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
What's your take on that? What (beyond being a Swiss Army knife that can do that 4x times at once), what else is the O&C *awesome* at, if anything? Does it do anything better than some other class of modules does that particular thing?
Truth be told? It's best at being a set'n'forget module, but I haven't figured out what to set it to, so I rarely use it because the interface is a little cumbersome. It's good at Turing Machines and quantization for sure. The TM side can do a whole lot more than the 2HP turing machine can, but it's just not the least bit fut to edit. It's also got this sequenced envelope thing that makes for some gnarly modulation, but that one really isn't any fun at all to program up. Realistically, I should set it as some quantizers, but I don't use pitch CV's often enough to really make it worth the effort.
Old 4th November 2019 | Show parent
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Bloom is on my wishlist as well, but I'm wondering if it should be. I say that because I drooled until I drowned over Tuesday, and then when I finally got it, I never use it.



Truth be told? It's best at being a set'n'forget module, but I haven't figured out what to set it to, so I rarely use it because the interface is a little cumbersome. It's good at Turing Machines and quantization for sure. The TM side can do a whole lot more than the 2HP turing machine can, but it's just not the least bit fut to edit. It's also got this sequenced envelope thing that makes for some gnarly modulation, but that one really isn't any fun at all to program up. Realistically, I should set it as some quantizers, but I don't use pitch CV's often enough to really make it worth the effort.
Right on. Thanks for the candor.

Weird about the Tuesday. What gives? Does the type of module (auto melody maker thinggys) not really j8ve with your work/style/music? Or do you not like the interface or something about it?
Old 5th November 2019 | Show parent
  #12
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
Right on. Thanks for the candor.

Weird about the Tuesday. What gives? Does the type of module (auto melody maker thinggys) not really j8ve with your work/style/music? Or do you not like the interface or something about it?
First, my O_C is almost permanently set as a quantizer. As for Thusday, it has it's place and can be fun, especially if you use all the modulation outputs. That said, My Tuesday is usually hooked up to my O_C usually to give me more modal variety.

If you end up getting a hardware Turing Machine, O_C is a must have to pair with it.

As for the O_C menu's ... a deep quantizer sort of benefits from an LCD; Good luck remembering what buttons to press to put the uScale in Mixolydian or pentatonic minor mode (FYI, the same scales the Metropolis speaks). Harmonaig seems light years better than the uScale if you want to wiggle a quantizer, but I just can't justify the additional HP.
Old 5th November 2019 | Show parent
  #13
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
Right on. Thanks for the candor.

Weird about the Tuesday. What gives? Does the type of module (auto melody maker thinggys) not really j8ve with your work/style/music? Or do you not like the interface or something about it?
Probably because pitch sequencing doesn't see practical use in my setup. I haven't even cracked open the manual to that thing yet.
Old 13th August 2020
  #14
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Generally, what is the max pattern length for the LFSR that you can buy/ build?

I was thinking of trying a combo of choosing 16,32,48, and 64 for my next DIY Turing machine.

Have been researching the circuits of the Turing Machine and O&C.

Curious if anyone would be interested in longer patterns like 64 to 256?

I will find out myself when I build the Mark 2 DIY I guess.
Old 15th August 2020 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcppp View Post
Generally, what is the max pattern length for the LFSR that you can buy/ build?

I was thinking of trying a combo of choosing 16,32,48, and 64 for my next DIY Turing machine.

Have been researching the circuits of the Turing Machine and O&C.

Curious if anyone would be interested in longer patterns like 64 to 256?

I will find out myself when I build the Mark 2 DIY I guess.
I'd say anything over 32 steps may as well be a 1-step... Ok, maybe you could argue for up to 64 in some cases, but basically its too many steps to recognise a pattern (unless maybe you have an ultra high clock rate) especially as that pattern has been built up "randomly" - when it loops around after 128 random notes, don't think you'll be expecting the first note again, it may as well be yet anther random.

If you had to go there, you'd probably want a way to pre-populate the shift register (in which case you'd likely be manually subdividing it into smaller chunks) and in order to maintain this structure, would probably want some way to decide which notes get randomised... in which case its not really a turing machine anymore, more just a step sequencer with probability....?
Old 11th September 2020 | Show parent
  #16
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcppp View Post
Generally, what is the max pattern length for the LFSR that you can buy/ build?

I was thinking of trying a combo of choosing 16,32,48, and 64 for my next DIY Turing machine.

Have been researching the circuits of the Turing Machine and O&C.

Curious if anyone would be interested in longer patterns like 64 to 256?

I will find out myself when I build the Mark 2 DIY I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by butter View Post
I'd say anything over 32 steps may as well be a 1-step... Ok, maybe you could argue for up to 64 in some cases, but basically its too many steps to recognise a pattern (unless maybe you have an ultra high clock rate) especially as that pattern has been built up "randomly" - when it loops around after 128 random notes, don't think you'll be expecting the first note again, it may as well be yet anther random.

If you had to go there, you'd probably want a way to pre-populate the shift register (in which case you'd likely be manually subdividing it into smaller chunks) and in order to maintain this structure, would probably want some way to decide which notes get randomised... in which case its not really a turing machine anymore, more just a step sequencer with probability....?
I could imagine where someone would want 64 steps, but like butter said, that's pretty close to a step sequencer at that point. The point of a turing machine is for it to have a shortish repeating pattern that slowly mutates into something else with each loop.
Old 11th September 2020 | Show parent
  #17
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No worries. My design has changed, and so has the name of the Device.
I call it a REFM (random enough for me) as it is neither a pure LFSR nor a
Turing machine.

Once my digikey.ca order goes in I can start building.

As I use ring oscillators rather than white noise, and I do not use XOR gates
on the shift registers it can not be called a LFSR nor a Turing machine.

I plan to run 4 separate 8 bit DAs on a 32 step shift register, so it will output
the same CV, but offset 8 steps per DA.

When it is built I will make a demo of it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
I could imagine where someone would want 64 steps, but like butter said, that's pretty close to a step sequencer at that point. The point of a turing machine is for it to have a shortish repeating pattern that slowly mutates into something else with each loop.
Old 12th September 2020
  #18
Groovy. Keep is posted for sure.
Old 15th September 2020
  #19
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NY___'s Avatar
I actually have questions about the the "all things modular - turing machine" from thonk.co.uk - I was that what you were referencing @ BIG nautus with getting all the add-ons? Which there seem to be a lot. Additionally I had been looking at the "After Later Audio - Alan" which seems to be a clone of the "all things modular - turing machine"
What are the downsides of either of these or upsides?
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