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I'd love to built a eurorack melody monster (incl powersupply info)
Old 4th September 2019
  #1
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Ja Man's Avatar
 

I'd love to built a eurorack melody monster (incl powersupply info)

I'd love to create a small synth kinda steevio-style (only the synth part) that generates melodies on it's own (multiple sequencers that combine as a calculative whole). Does anyone know good tutorials for this?
Old 4th September 2019
  #2
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1. Post in Modular subforum
...
4. Profit.



But here will work well enough. It happens.

I don't know who or what a steevio is, nor do I know of any tutorials about this particular question, but generating melodies "on its own" in eurorack can be done a few ways.

One example being:

* a Random CV Source into a CV Quantizer, which yakes anything (white noise, an LFO, an Env, etc) and adjusts the CV so that that random or atonal sh!t is now in Gm or whatever you choose. It'll just pump out a steady stream of notes in the selected key as long as you leave it running.

I could make a few guesses as to the most efficient way to go about all this, but it's not really my forte, so I'll leave the rest to others more experienced in these particular areas.

Maybe a mod will move this to the other subforum. Also I'd ask over at Muffwiggler too.

Good luck
Old 4th September 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
Nothing fancy at all about Steevio's gear. Its a lot of basic (Doepfer) gear logically put together - a lot of what are referred to as "utility" modules carefully tuned and linked. Basically he has a few sequencers that are passed through precision adders to build chords and octaves which are also fed into banks of sequential switches to switch the related sequencers. He also uses some switched mults to manually route stuff... oh, and a few trigger delays to swing the regular pulses - of course a few clock dividers before those too. (lol, remembered it pretty well in exact order too once I tracked down the video)

mylarmelodies on youtube has builds a bit on some of his ideas in some of his tutorials, but steevios runs through it here - not much "tutorial" required, just basic principals to think through:
Old 4th September 2019
  #4
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There you go.. ^

Sweet.
Old 4th September 2019
  #5
< moving this thread >
Old 4th September 2019
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Derp's Avatar
The first thing that comes to mind for spewing out melodies is the classic Turing Machine -> Attenuator -> Quantizer configuration. Clock the TM and the quantizer with the same LFO. There are modules that are specialized in spewing out melody, but they're expensive and limited in their capabilities. The Turing Machine works well because it's essentially a Sample and Hold with a repeatable pattern. Ran through a quantizer, that's guaranteed melodies. Steevio might be doing it some other way, but listening to his music, it sounds like this is the easiest way to get the pseudo-random sequences. (Just shift the Turing Machine so that it slowly evolves the sequence instead of just repeating the same pattern over and over again.)
Old 4th September 2019
  #7
Gear Head
 
Ja Man's Avatar
 

After searching and trying all day in Rack I kinda get it.
Lots of VCA, a intuitive quantizer, lfo's, various clocks & alot of trying out.
The video really helped me out, tnx!

& sorry didnt know there was a modular forum here!
Old 6th September 2019
  #8
Geen enkel probleem, je hebt het gevonden.
I do think that it's a good idea to plan ahead, since you have a defined plan (many people who start modular, don't).
I started with a full Doepfer system and it's good. All the modules have one function, but are relatively cheap.
Other manufacturers have more expensive, complex modules. So that's something to take into consideration.
Use the www.modulargrid.net to plan the system.

Maybe highlighting some useful modules can help, there's many different ways to build a machine that spits multiple melodies?
I'm super busy so I'll add more info later. Of course these are just examples, there are alternatives.
Sequencer - Squarp Hermod
Quantizer/Chord Harmonizer - Instruo Harmoniag

Also see this video:
Old 6th September 2019
  #9
Gear Head
 
Ja Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
Geen enkel probleem, je hebt het gevonden.
I do think that it's a good idea to plan ahead, since you have a defined plan (many people who start modular, don't).
I started with a full Doepfer system and it's good. All the modules have one function, but are relatively cheap.
Other manufacturers have more expensive, complex modules. So that's something to take into consideration.
Use the www.modulargrid.net to plan the system.

Maybe highlighting some useful modules can help, there's many different ways to build a machine that spits multiple melodies?
I'm super busy so I'll add more info later. Of course these are just examples, there are alternatives.
Sequencer - Squarp Hermod
Quantizer/Chord Harmonizer - Instruo Harmoniag

Also see this video:
Tnx for the vids, they are helpfull. & about buying modules:
I'm currently doing electronics as a study at home, my brother already made stuff like the Weird Sound Generator from Music Outta Space (still have pcb's of it) but he quit the hobby. However he is willing to guide me a bit after I've learned some basics. I can have all his stuff (lots of electronic parts & books about modular,..) I think i'm going to build as much as I can myself, hopefully will start very soon. I already have a good idea of what i'm going to do, but will take it step by step. Going to start with making an oscillator & alot of VCA's and LFO's first. A random frequency generator, I think it will also work with a weird sound generator or in combo. Than buy some sequencers or make them myself & get that intuitive quantizer.
Some modules that Mylarmelodies points out are DIY I saw, you can buy the kits pretty cheap @ https://www.thonk.co.uk/

But let's start with making a case & a powersupply (look mom no computer does this pretty cheap). I'd go for the same but buy the rails because just wood is going to suck if you change the position alot

However you may send me all you know about this matter! Everything is welcome
Old 6th September 2019
  #10
there's a lot! and little time. It helps if you have a plan and if you have a sort of start already.
DIY is great, yes take it easy. It's not difficult and there is lots of documentation online.
Get a GOOD (temperature controlled) soldering Iron (those old Wellers are amazing) and keep your tip clean always.
There's a thread (or two) already about DIY and various tools you need. Do a search (or just read all the threads )

Buying just the rails is a good idea. it's easy to put some MDF or wooden planks together.
Get a GOOD Powersupply. My preference is linear (with a transformer). They're much heavier, so not that useful for something you want to take with you in a backpack, but some cheap powersupplies can have ripples in the current, and can be starved for power (despite the promised specifications). Most problems in eurorack are power supply related. The rest is pretty much straightforward.

other shops for eurorack kits besides Thonk (they are good)
Exploding Shed (Germany) https://www.exploding-shed.com/
Error Instruments (Holland, some weird stuff there) https://www.errorinstruments.com/
Synthcube (USA, but cheap shipping) https://synthcube.com/cart/

This guy has some nice build videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaT...ErVLsfYkrg2R9w
And more info in this thread:
Modular Basics and Newbie How-To

You may consider going to the next Dutch Modular Fest, at the end of this month:
https://www.dutchmodularfest.com/
I'll go there and do a report and videos, so if you can't that's not a big issue.
It is super nice though. Good people, low key vibe, great location. It's always a good thing to actually meet the people in real life, that you know from the internet.
There's also a modular festival in Belgium (in the summer): http://pulsefestival.be/wordpress/

That's just a tiny slice of a big cake.
Old 6th September 2019
  #11
Gear Head
 
Ja Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
there's a lot! and little time. It helps if you have a plan and if you have a sort of start already.
DIY is great, yes take it easy. It's not difficult and there is lots of documentation online.
Get a GOOD (temperature controlled) soldering Iron (those old Wellers are amazing) and keep your tip clean always.
There's a thread (or two) already about DIY and various tools you need. Do a search (or just read all the threads )

Buying just the rails is a good idea. it's easy to put some MDF or wooden planks together.
Get a GOOD Powersupply. My preference is linear (with a transformer). They're much heavier, so not that useful for something you want to take with you in a backpack, but some cheap powersupplies can have ripples in the current, and can be starved for power (despite the promised specifications). Most problems in eurorack are power supply related. The rest is pretty much straightforward.

other shops for eurorack kits besides Thonk (they are good)
Exploding Shed (Germany) https://www.exploding-shed.com/
Error Instruments (Holland, some weird stuff there) https://www.errorinstruments.com/
Synthcube (USA, but cheap shipping) https://synthcube.com/cart/

This guy has some nice build videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaT...ErVLsfYkrg2R9w
And more info in this thread:
Modular Basics and Newbie How-To

You may consider going to the next Dutch Modular Fest, at the end of this month:
https://www.dutchmodularfest.com/
I'll go there and do a report and videos, so if you can't that's not a big issue.
It is super nice though. Good people, low key vibe, great location. It's always a good thing to actually meet the people in real life, that you know from the internet.
There's also a modular festival in Belgium (in the summer): http://pulsefestival.be/wordpress/

That's just a tiny slice of a big cake.

Allright, really nice info! Thank you very much!
really nice sites for kits

Do you have an example for the power supply?

And I think I'm going next year, when I know a little more about it.
& have more budget :')
Good thing I live in Belgium. Going to look this up for sure!
Old 6th September 2019
  #12
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subdo's Avatar
You could do all that or you could just buy a Marbles and feel like you're totally cheating.
Old 7th September 2019
  #13
Gear Head
 
Ja Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by subdo View Post
You could do all that or you could just buy a Marbles and feel like you're totally cheating.
watched some vids on the marbles but its not the same.
it randomly sequences but it doenst allow the entire plot (every module in the patch) to change the entire time endlessly and be within a certain taste of the one creating the patch.
Its nice to add to such a patch but not necessary. However it's a very cool sequencer, really enjoyed watching it do it's thing
Old 7th September 2019
  #14
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Man View Post
watched some vids on the marbles but its not the same.
it randomly sequences but it doenst allow the entire plot (every module in the patch) to change the entire time endlessly and be within a certain taste of the one creating the patch.
Its nice to add to such a patch but not necessary. However it's a very cool sequencer, really enjoyed watching it do it's thing
Says who? You get three related CV outputs, three sets of related triggers, and then a LFO source. I've been though a lot of generative sources and Marbles is what I've finally settled on with the Klee being my second favorite.

Marbles, Grids and Klee ...


Marbles and Grids ...


Here's one with the old Turing Machine, just one channel instead of three that you get from Marbles ...
Old 8th September 2019
  #15
Gear Head
 
Ja Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Says who? You get three related CV outputs, three sets of related triggers, and then a LFO source. I've been though a lot of generative sources and Marbles is what I've finally settled on with the Klee being my second favorite.

Marbles, Grids and Klee ...


Marbles and Grids ...


Here's one with the old Turing Machine, just one channel instead of three that you get from Marbles ...
Okay I'll consider it after some time, this idd sounds good.
Its pretty expensive so going to bet on DIY first
Old 9th September 2019
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Man View Post
Allright, really nice info! Thank you very much!
really nice sites for kits

Do you have an example for the power supply?

And I think I'm going next year, when I know a little more about it.
& have more budget :')
Good thing I live in Belgium. Going to look this up for sure!
Powersupplies:
At the low end: Mean Well I tested the RD 35 13 and it works. Built it into some eurorack I built a few years ago. link It's not bad (not worse than Zeus and other (in my opinion overpriced) branded stuff, it has some ripple filtering but it's an industrial component, not designed for expensive synths. Good for a rack with utilities or a case you would use for a mobile setup, since it's lightweight.
https://www.conrad.nl/p/mean-well-rd...n-35-w-1293069
Or better this:
https://www.reichelt.nl/schakelvoedi...2-p202954.html

I have two Traco TMP 30212C PSU here as well. They have a closed, watertight case, overload and thermal protection which is safer. They're not cheap but work well.
https://nl.rs-online.com/web/p/products/6641509

high end: I'm a fan of L-1 Synthesizer modules and he has a linear powersupply as well. Overengineered and not that expensive for what you actually get:
http://l-1.su/Power.html
Erica Synths also have one: https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/diy/...2v-psu-kit-v2/

Old Doepfer PSU were linear as well, but now they've changed to switched design. (check secondhand market)

There is also the ACL Powersupply, this is a switching psu that is actually very stable and has no ripples in the current. All of the ACL stuff is high end too. But it's too expensive for me (you might be rich, who knows? )
https://www.schneidersladen.de/en/acl-bar-psu.html

I'm not a fan of these branded 4u powersupply modules. I think they're overpriced. It's simple to get a blank plate and mount a 240V switch with led on it and connect it to a power unit and then to busboards. (If you know what you're doing of course. Electrocution is not a life goal.) They do work, but some people reported issues with too many modules connected. (link)
All of this is just my opinion of course.

Objectively.. good, stable power is important and does have a noticable influence how a synth will sound.
Old 9th September 2019
  #17
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Man View Post
Okay I'll consider it after some time, this idd sounds good.
Its pretty expensive so going to bet on DIY first
Take my hot take comment with plenty of salt. I have Marbles, like it, use it, but I still go back to more basic techniques. A quantizer and bipolar CV mixer ala Triatt are tools that are great for generative stuff but also a million other things. It's fascinating the melodic lines that two free running LFOs mixed together and sent to a quantizer will produce. Maybe not something that will make it into a recording but not hard to patch and really fun to tweak and expand on.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
Gear Head
 
Ja Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
Powersupplies:
At the low end: Mean Well I tested the RD 35 13 and it works. Built it into some eurorack I built a few years ago. link It's not bad (not worse than Zeus and other (in my opinion overpriced) branded stuff, it has some ripple filtering but it's an industrial component, not designed for expensive synths. Good for a rack with utilities or a case you would use for a mobile setup, since it's lightweight.
https://www.conrad.nl/p/mean-well-rd...n-35-w-1293069
Or better this:
https://www.reichelt.nl/schakelvoedi...2-p202954.html

I have two Traco TMP 30212C PSU here as well. They have a closed, watertight case, overload and thermal protection which is safer. They're not cheap but work well.
https://nl.rs-online.com/web/p/products/6641509

high end: I'm a fan of L-1 Synthesizer modules and he has a linear powersupply as well. Overengineered and not that expensive for what you actually get:
http://l-1.su/Power.html
Erica Synths also have one: https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/diy/...2v-psu-kit-v2/

Old Doepfer PSU were linear as well, but now they've changed to switched design. (check secondhand market)

There is also the ACL Powersupply, this is a switching psu that is actually very stable and has no ripples in the current. All of the ACL stuff is high end too. But it's too expensive for me (you might be rich, who knows? )
https://www.schneidersladen.de/en/acl-bar-psu.html

I'm not a fan of these branded 4u powersupply modules. I think they're overpriced. It's simple to get a blank plate and mount a 240V switch with led on it and connect it to a power unit and then to busboards. (If you know what you're doing of course. Electrocution is not a life goal.) They do work, but some people reported issues with too many modules connected. (link)
All of this is just my opinion of course.

Objectively.. good, stable power is important and does have a noticable influence how a synth will sound.

So building this one is a bad idea? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T6J-K8_yk4&t=567s

Also I've got a moog slim phatty, it has some CV's but would a mother 32 be a better idea in a modular environment?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
Gear Head
 
Ja Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
Powersupplies:
At the low end: Mean Well I tested the RD 35 13 and it works. Built it into some eurorack I built a few years ago. link It's not bad (not worse than Zeus and other (in my opinion overpriced) branded stuff, it has some ripple filtering but it's an industrial component, not designed for expensive synths. Good for a rack with utilities or a case you would use for a mobile setup, since it's lightweight.
https://www.conrad.nl/p/mean-well-rd...n-35-w-1293069
Or better this:
https://www.reichelt.nl/schakelvoedi...2-p202954.html

I have two Traco TMP 30212C PSU here as well. They have a closed, watertight case, overload and thermal protection which is safer. They're not cheap but work well.
https://nl.rs-online.com/web/p/products/6641509

high end: I'm a fan of L-1 Synthesizer modules and he has a linear powersupply as well. Overengineered and not that expensive for what you actually get:
http://l-1.su/Power.html
Erica Synths also have one: https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/diy/...2v-psu-kit-v2/

Old Doepfer PSU were linear as well, but now they've changed to switched design. (check secondhand market)

There is also the ACL Powersupply, this is a switching psu that is actually very stable and has no ripples in the current. All of the ACL stuff is high end too. But it's too expensive for me (you might be rich, who knows? )
https://www.schneidersladen.de/en/acl-bar-psu.html

I'm not a fan of these branded 4u powersupply modules. I think they're overpriced. It's simple to get a blank plate and mount a 240V switch with led on it and connect it to a power unit and then to busboards. (If you know what you're doing of course. Electrocution is not a life goal.) They do work, but some people reported issues with too many modules connected. (link)
All of this is just my opinion of course.

Objectively.. good, stable power is important and does have a noticable influence how a synth will sound.

How do you turn the built-in power supplies u send (the cheap ones) into the case and connect it to the 16pins? I cant find any schematics or videos about this..
Attached Thumbnails
I'd love to built a eurorack melody monster (incl powersupply info)-schermafbeelding-2019-09-10-om-20.30.42.png  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
Gear Head
 
Ja Man's Avatar
 

How do you turn these into power supplies for your modular synths?

https://www.reichelt.nl/schakelvoedi...2-p202954.html
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21
Gear Guru
 
Derp's Avatar
By connecting it to a bus board.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
On http://www.doepfer.de/home_d.htm there are some technical infos. Look for "technical details A-100"

What you have to do is to figure out what connector means what. You connect the busboards to the powersupply outputs. You make sure the ground connection is on the chassis and connects to the mains ground! (middle pin on a normal mains plug) That's an important one, you don't want to electrocute yourself. Then you connect the input of the powersupply to the mains connector on the back of the case.
You have to know what an electrical system needs and what not to do. Basic information.


so, a simple overview:

mains power +/- (it is AC) called "L" and "N" ---> PSU (be careful, lethal currant)
mains ground (with the ground symbol) ---> case ---> PSU
connect the powersupply housing to the metal enclosure (or metal backplate, which is connected to the mains ground)
(be careful, this mains ground is your lifeline, if something goes wrong! To make sure that works, I mostly drill a hole in the metal case, with a screw that connect wires on those connectors you can buy for car electronics. I use a metal washer so it won't fall out when you're transporting it, even after years. I then connect all the ground wires to that, including a thick one to the connector on the mains plug (where you put in the mains cable going to the socket). everything must be screwed down, and all 230V 16A must not be exposed. use good quality crimp sleeve to cover those exposed contacts, if possible, and make sure your solder connections are good.)

the end with the busboards is a little easier
PSU +12V (called +V) ---> +12V busboard
PSU - 12V (called -V) ---> -12V bosboard
PSU neutral ----> ground busboard

You can cascade busboards in series but I think it's better to create a central power source and connect the busboards in parallel.
Because of it's format, the busboard itself is already in series. That is why sometimes, with power issues, it helps to move modules around. It's not a very sophisticated system, there are electrical systems that are more stable, and have better shielding. But it works.

Please note I'm not an electrician, or have an engineering diploma. If you are in doubt, always choose the safe option.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Man View Post
So building this one is a bad idea? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T6J-K8_yk4&t=567s
Yes you can build that yourself. Reading up on electrical circuits is a requirement though. It helps!
Here's a start: https://www.build-electronic-circuit...n-electronics/

please note his comment underneath that (look mum no computer) video:
Quote:
“ A NOTE”A quick note I possibly didn’t make clear! The power jack isn’t 240 volts! That would be crazy. It’s wired to a 12v ac wall wart. There’s a link in the description to it!
what he has, is a "wallwart" external PSU, that sends 12V AC (alternating current) to the case, where the different busboards transform it into 12V DC (direct current https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_current )

so what is different: the Meanwell powersupply in that picture DOES connect to the mains power (230V 60Hz)
it has the 230V --> 12V AC stage built in.
you make a regular mains power connector in the back. they come with fuses and (illuminated) switches and are cheap.
on the back of that you have to solder your wires (use thick mains electrical wires, not the thin 12V ones!)
like this: https://www.instructables.com/id/Wir...-Power-Socket/

So, concluding: You have the choice. Either use a complete PSU like the Meanwell, or go with the wallwart into seperate AC-DC powersupply boards. The complete PSU option is easier, you don't have to deal with carrying wallwarts around (got a whole box full of the damn things ) but the "look mum no computer" option with the wallwart handling the dangerous 230V 16A current is safer for a beginner.

If you choose that wallwart route; he posted that Frequency Central one.
http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/?page_id=894
Check out that shop, they have nice DIY modules as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Man View Post
Also I've got a moog slim phatty, it has some CV's but would a mother 32 be a better idea in a modular environment?
A Slim Phatty is a great synth. You just solder some cables with a large 6.3 mm jack plug on one end and a 3.5 mm minijack plug (the ones used in eurocrack and the Mother 32) on the other end.
It might be that the Moog uses triggers instead of gates (old Moogs did) but that is easy to sort out later.
The Mother 32 is a very different synth. It's also good but less complete in some areas, and a little more (sequencer) in others.

So I wouldn't trade the Slim Phatty, unless you don't like it. If you do like it, it's not eurorack, but keep it a while, I think. See how that works out for you. I use my Microwave XT with the modular all the time. No, it doesn't have CV/Gate in or outputs, but I treat it like a complete sound source, and then process it further using eurorack filters, envelopes, VCA etc.
Syncing MIDI clock to eurorack clock is a good idea if you combine the two. But that's the next step.

<moderator hat on I'll merge the two threads, edit the title. it's a bit confusing otherwise>
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