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Modular Basics and Newbie How-To
Old 14th August 2020
  #91
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pekbro's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporalMix View Post
Sorry if I wasn't clear or if I'm not understanding.

I can send pitch via cv into the module, but I'm not seeing anything labeled "gate". I'm just trying to send in note on/off information but I don't know where to plug the gate into.

I'm getting the hang of this oscillator, it has a ton of cool modulation options -- pulse width, saw width, wave folding -- but I'm not seeing any input for gate.

Is that really a thing? I can't even modulate the amplitude as far as I can tell (I don't have a vca).



Did you try the impulse input in the contour section? I don't have the module but it pretty clearly
states the strike for the LPG is the impulse.

From the interwebz:

""A lowpass gate is essentially a low pass VCF configured to behave like a VCA. The lowpass gate accepts an audio input and a control signal, in the manner of a VCA. When there is no control signal present, the filter's cutoff frequency is in the subsonic range, well below the audio frequencies; therefore, no audio passes the filter. Applying a control voltage causes the cutoff frequency to rise significantly, into the upper end of the audio range, so that most of the audio at the input now passes. If the output of an envelope generator is presented to the control input, the lowpass gate will shape the note envelope as a VCA would, but with some characteristic differences."
""

Anyway. hate to break it to you, but I would guess that the bulk of Eurorack oscillators don't have
a specific input for a gate.
Old 16th August 2020 | Show parent
  #92
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Bilb's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporalMix View Post
Sorry if I wasn't clear or if I'm not understanding.

I can send pitch via cv into the module, but I'm not seeing anything labeled "gate". I'm just trying to send in note on/off information but I don't know where to plug the gate into.

I'm getting the hang of this oscillator, it has a ton of cool modulation options -- pulse width, saw width, wave folding -- but I'm not seeing any input for gate.

Is that really a thing? I can't even modulate the amplitude as far as I can tell (I don't have a vca).
Generally, oscillators don't solely oscillate when told to by a "note on" - they oscillate all the time. In order to experience blissful silence in between key presses, you'll need to invest in a VCA, and likely an envelope to shape it, and send the gate signal there instead. If you also want to put the signal through a VCF with a different envelope shape, you'll need a second envelope plus some kind of splitter or mult to send your gate signal to both envelopes.

So for the most absolute bog standard subtractive synth patch, your CV routing will look like this:
Pitch CV > OSC
Gate > Envelope 1 > Filter
Gate > Envelope 2 > VCA

And your audio signal routing looks like this:
OSC > Filter > VCA > Output
Old 17th August 2020 | Show parent
  #93
Gear Addict
 
TemporalMix's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekbro View Post
Did you try the impulse input in the contour section? I don't have the module but it pretty clearly
states the strike for the LPG is the impulse.

From the interwebz:

""A lowpass gate is essentially a low pass VCF configured to behave like a VCA. The lowpass gate accepts an audio input and a control signal, in the manner of a VCA. When there is no control signal present, the filter's cutoff frequency is in the subsonic range, well below the audio frequencies; therefore, no audio passes the filter. Applying a control voltage causes the cutoff frequency to rise significantly, into the upper end of the audio range, so that most of the audio at the input now passes. If the output of an envelope generator is presented to the control input, the lowpass gate will shape the note envelope as a VCA would, but with some characteristic differences."
""

Anyway. hate to break it to you, but I would guess that the bulk of Eurorack oscillators don't have
a specific input for a gate.
Thanks for the help. I'll try plugging the gate into the impulse the next time I'm at my studio.

It's so weird to me that gate isn't a more popular thing. I mean, who thinks having notes ring out indefinitely is NOT annoying? It's really annoying.

The standard of having a gate or an envelope for amplitude has been set in stone 60 years ago. What the hell is everyone thinking?
Old 17th August 2020 | Show parent
  #94
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pekbro's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporalMix View Post
Thanks for the help. I'll try plugging the gate into the impulse the next time I'm at my studio.

It's so weird to me that gate isn't a more popular thing. I mean, who thinks having notes ring out indefinitely is NOT annoying? It's really annoying.

The standard of having a gate or an envelope for amplitude has been set in stone 60 years ago. What the hell is everyone thinking?
Heh, well it is supposed to be modular Anway, you only need limit
yourself to the "synth voice'" modules, by definition they have all that stuff
built in. That module you have is almost there as well, if the LPG works
as a LPG should work, I think you'll find that quite nice actually. They
can be great for percussive sounds, from drums all the way up to sparkly
chimes or bells. Maybe not so good for sounds that have a long slow release
time. Anyway, the LPG is a mainstay of the west coast synthesis thing I
believe.
Old 18th August 2020 | Show parent
  #95
Gear Addict
 
TemporalMix's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilb View Post
Generally, oscillators don't solely oscillate when told to by a "note on" - they oscillate all the time. In order to experience blissful silence in between key presses, you'll need to invest in a VCA, and likely an envelope to shape it, and send the gate signal there instead. If you also want to put the signal through a VCF with a different envelope shape, you'll need a second envelope plus some kind of splitter or mult to send your gate signal to both envelopes.

So for the most absolute bog standard subtractive synth patch, your CV routing will look like this:
Pitch CV > OSC
Gate > Envelope 1 > Filter
Gate > Envelope 2 > VCA

And your audio signal routing looks like this:
OSC > Filter > VCA > Output
Thank you for spelling this out for me. Up until this point, I didn't see a need for a VCA, since I only used an oscillator with a gate input, but now I see I definitely want one now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekbro View Post
Heh, well it is supposed to be modular Anway, you only need limit
yourself to the "synth voice'" modules, by definition they have all that stuff
built in. That module you have is almost there as well, if the LPG works
as a LPG should work, I think you'll find that quite nice actually. They
can be great for percussive sounds, from drums all the way up to sparkly
chimes or bells. Maybe not so good for sounds that have a long slow release
time. Anyway, the LPG is a mainstay of the west coast synthesis thing I
believe.
I figured out how to use the lpg! It actually does work pretty well, though I would prefer a straight up gate, tbh.

However, once I modulate the "dynamics" parameter with an adsr, I can get it to work well enough.

Thanks to everyone for helping me understand this stuff. Honestly, I felt like I really understood sound design until I started putting together my modular. Now I feel like an idiot, but I'm getting there thanks to your help!
Old 19th August 2020 | Show parent
  #96
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Bilb's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporalMix View Post
Thanks to everyone for helping me understand this stuff. Honestly, I felt like I really understood sound design until I started putting together my modular. Now I feel like an idiot, but I'm getting there thanks to your help!
No problem! If you never let yourself believe you're an expert at something, you'll never stop learning more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporalMix View Post
I didn't see a need for a VCA


Old 19th August 2020 | Show parent
  #97
Gear Addict
 
TemporalMix's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilb View Post
No problem! If you never let yourself believe you're an expert at something, you'll never stop learning more.





Haha yeah, I've heard people talk about VCA's being important, but I've always preferred a gated OSC as opposed to an envelope on my OSC. I always used adsr on the lpf to create a shape.

Now I'm suddenly feeling the need for a vca and a bigger eurorack case lol!
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #98
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TemporalMix's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Okay, so can you guys walk me through this and tell me how this will work BEFORE I buy this thing?

So if I patch from the sine of my Pittsburgh Modular Double Helix module to this VCA's "In 1", and then patch from the VCA's "All Output" to the output of my Eurorack case, I should hear the sine wave playing whatever my last note is indefinitely...

So how do I configure this to have a note on/off effect using this VCA? Would I patch from the "gate" of my Eurorack case to the VCA's "CV 1"? Would that give me the desired effect?

I get that I can go from an ADSR to the CV, but I'm looking for a hard on/off gate effect, like a "regular" synth.

Am I on the right track? I'm basically interested in playing basslines and leads with this thing. I'm not really into the bleep bloop **** that every modular video on YouTube seems to be about, so I appreciate any help you can give me.
Old 20th August 2020
  #99
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pekbro's Avatar
 
Bear in mind I'm just guessing from the pic, I have no doepfer modules.
Anyway, sry for the crude drawing, I don't have a stylus atm So yeah,
the gate goes to the cv input. A gate will just open or close the vca,
so level will be set by the knob I expect.

If you are using an envelope, the gate would go to the env trigger
typically, and the env output would replace the gate in the diagram.
For stereo, you would just double that. Looks like the center outs will
mix the the two so you can combine them. All the knobs set the lvl
for their counterparts. Not sure about the selection thing, you would
need to read the manual for that. Other than that, it looks pretty
straight forward.

(A = Audio, G = Gate)
Attached Thumbnails
Modular Basics and Newbie How-To-vca.jpg  
Old 20th August 2020 | Show parent
  #100
Gear Addict
 
TemporalMix's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekbro View Post
Bear in mind I'm just guessing from the pic, I have no doepfer modules.
Anyway, sry for the crude drawing, I don't have a stylus atm So yeah,
the gate goes to the cv input. A gate will just open or close the vca,
so level will be set by the knob I expect.

If you are using an envelope, the gate would go to the env trigger
typically, and the env output would replace the gate in the diagram.
For stereo, you would just double that. Looks like the center outs will
mix the the two so you can combine them. All the knobs set the lvl
for their counterparts. Not sure about the selection thing, you would
need to read the manual for that. Other than that, it looks pretty
straight forward.

(A = Audio, G = Gate)
Thanks! Just making sure I understand everything right!
Old 21st August 2020 | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
pekbro's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporalMix View Post
Thanks! Just making sure I understand everything right!
One thing though, why not look for an envelope with a built in vca?
Then you can sculpt the sound as well. just sayin...

-Cheers

That mixer would be handy too though *shrug
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #102
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekbro View Post
One thing though, why not look for an envelope with a built in vca?
Then you can sculpt the sound as well. just sayin...

-Cheers

That mixer would be handy too though *shrug
Right. Though it's not a quad, the OP may also be interested in WMD's new Javelin ADSR. It's a basic ADSR with a built-in VCA, plus a couple of unique bells and whistles. Just-released, so not on dealers' shelves just yet. Pre-order from Prymaxe (if you dare) and get it for 20%-off (warning: their pre-order policy is rather strict—read the fine-print).

I pre-ordered mine there for only $150 on Black Friday-week. I bought two other in-stock WMD modules from them (and already received them), so I feel fairly confident they'll receive some stock.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #103
Lives for gear
 
Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekbro View Post
Bear in mind I'm just guessing from the pic, I have no doepfer modules.
Anyway, sry for the crude drawing, I don't have a stylus atm So yeah,
the gate goes to the cv input. A gate will just open or close the vca,
so level will be set by the knob I expect.

If you are using an envelope, the gate would go to the env trigger
typically, and the env output would replace the gate in the diagram.
For stereo, you would just double that. Looks like the center outs will
mix the the two so you can combine them. All the knobs set the lvl
for their counterparts. Not sure about the selection thing, you would
need to read the manual for that. Other than that, it looks pretty
straight forward.

(A = Audio, G = Gate)
You, sir, ar an ar-tist.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #104
Lives for gear
 
Bignatius's Avatar
Good VCAs run about $50+/ea (see Mutables, Erica, ALM, Bubblesound, etc, all quad VCAs for about $200), generally speaking, and upwards of $75+/ea for ones based on the THAT2180 chip (like the quad from L-1 for about $TreeFiddy), or about $100/ea for ones with special features (like the WMD dual with the zero crossing circuit).

These prices hold pretty steady, whether packaged in singles or groups and whether or not an Envelope is included for each VCA.

The occasional 8x or 6x packaging of VCAs will drive that price down some. Other edge cases are true, as well, but $50-100/VCA is a good reference.
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