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Filters and character "sounds".. Modular Synthesizers
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Filters and character "sounds"..

Should we discuss this once and for all?

Just because you get this or that filter does not make your synth sound like this or that classic synth.

I for example have the doepfer sem filter. And it does in no way, shape or form make any of the rest of my synth sound even remotely close to a sem! How the f can this be, when its a sem filter??

Basically I can never get my synth sounding like this, not even close-ish imo. and i have a fukn beatstep.


Then I have a STG sea devils filter. Its an ems clone. And it might even be a 101% EMS clone, yet it does not make my modular sound like, and/or behave like any EMS synth. And most definitely do not sound as "good" (this is subjective though) as one. How can this be? I think I have to get rid of it.

My theory (0,00000% my own lol) is that its more the sum of the parts than the actual individual parts per se that makes up these sounds.

You basically need to have them all (parts). And they all need to have the correct signal/gain levels and instabilities (coming from god knows where) going into each other.

And as we all have noticed there is a lot of sh1t to adjust on modulars, so you need to adjust these 20 or so knobs to these exact values, values that you have no idea about. at all. or even know you can approach.

----------------------------------------------

1: So what is this thread about??

2: What is there to discuss really?

1: I wanted to point out that different filters dont make modulars sounds like minimoogs/oddyseys/jupiter8s. Especially not YOUR modular! If you look on youtube you might get the impression that I might be wrong here. I kinda doubt it though. Since I also have youtube. And a modular.

2: wtf to discuss? Lets discuss how to really really recreate the sounds from classic analog synths that we know and love without having the actual synths. if possible that is.

I actually dont know what I wanted to point out with this thread but I feel way too many people put all their eggs in the filters.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
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void23's Avatar
Favorite filter by far, Rossum Evolution. Perfect for those mid-80’s DM type sounds, total vintage sound. Wish I had room for another. Everything sounds good through it.

For modern, 303 type crunch without needing to add additional distortion, WMD Aperture.

Most versatile, WMD/SSF MMF. Only 4hp, and it has a ping input that sounds really, really good.

Most disappointing is the Belgrad. Keep thinking I need to find the “sweet spot”, but never had that problem with the Evolution.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekanik View Post
My theory (0,00000% my own lol) is that its more the sum of the parts than the actual individual parts per se that makes up these sounds.

You basically need to have them all (parts). And they all need to have the correct signal/gain levels and instabilities (coming from god knows where) going into each other.

And as we all have noticed there is a lot of sh1t to adjust on modulars, so you need to adjust these 20 or so knobs to these exact values, values that you have no idea about. at all. or even know you can approach.
Agreed it takes more than a ladder to build a Moog for example. And yeah, a million idiosyncrasies compensated for, a million adjustments made etc. If you take an AJH-based setup it sounds very Moogy to my ears, but conversely plugging any old signal into a ladder filter (even the AJH) does not make for a Moog. So yeah, a synth sound is more than just one of its parts, and in a lot of cases more than the sum of its parts in total as well.

MI Ripples is supposed to be a Roland-style filter (I think). I don't particularly enjoy Roland products or GAS after them anyway, but I really love the sound of the Ripples filter. Sounds nothing like a Roland when I run a Klavis Twin Waves or the Furthrrrr Generator through it. Kinda like how I have never once heard my Braids set on CSAW sound like a CS80...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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Mefistophelees's Avatar
Filters are really fussy about input levels. Some like to be overdriven, some don't. It's amazing how bland some filters sound without a bit of overdrive, you need it for Moog and especially for Oberheim sounds. I don't think a Roland sound has much, if any overdrive.

So, if you want to match the sound you need to match the overdrive level.

The Moog also has a mixer that goes into overdrive so that's part of the sound as well.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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Ossicle's Avatar
I can't get over my fantasy of playing the Blade Runner intro lead over and over again in complete solitude, drinking some black label from the Cibi whiskey glass. Yeah yeah, how original.

I've read (probably from Muff) that 2 consecutive Doepfer SEM filters can get close to a CS80 lead - maybe even closer than the discontinued dedicated CS80 filters. As to the osc's, probably a pair of powerful saw cores? Would the character of the VCA play a significant role? Gotta try this sooner or later, but would be interesting if any one have had success with something like this. I have no idea what would come close to the CS80/60/50 VCO in sawtooth.

Forget about the feeble youtube alpha juno or Ensoniq etc. attempts. Not convincing.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
What are you saying? hmmm Some filters are really useful when combining it with some other soundsources.
But i'm not trying to recreate a classic SEM sound.

Filters eh
Not eurorack but the MOTM-440 are still my favorites. There's a eurorack version as well it's good but not the same (doesn't have that soft sound just before resonating, that I like, IMO it's more "direct" sounding)
Here's some factory demo samples (recorder, trumpet), which sold me on buying these back then.
I'm using them on a mix this weekend funking up an overcompressed bassline&drums track, and I'll post some audio of that in this post later.
They're expensive eggs. But I've never had the feeling I made a wrong choice. Desert island filter? This.

This Hearn Morley hm2040 also sounds close HM2040 - Hearn Morley

Keep that Sea Devils. But IMO treat it like a weird seventies sci-fi thing. That's what it's good at. Weird bubbly textures and strange sweeps with lots of spring reverb. I think it's got more character than a lot of other filters.
Get the JOVE. It sounds good and, while it's not a SEM filter, I think it's one of the best out there for little money (DIY). In fact; get two, use as stereo pair and spice it up with some reverb. I think you'll be happy.
Or just pawn your car and get that SEM module ha!
Attached Files

440_recorder.mp3 (427.8 KB, 400 views)

440_trumpet.mp3 (334.3 KB, 388 views)

Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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Derp's Avatar
Agreed. Outside of the Model D, you're not going to get perfect vintage recreation in Euro unless you're modeling every little detail about that particular synth. That being said, I'm a believer that you can get vintage character in Euro. You can make sounds that sound like they came out of a vintage synth, just not any synth that exists. ASol or SE oscillators into SSM filters sounds like a beautiful string synth, just not one that was ever sold in stores.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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in my opinopn you can never recreate a classic synth with a modular system. voltage, parts, signal flow caused artefacts and so on. i

but vice versa can no classic synth sound like your modular.
In my world, filters are the most important part of any synth
i got a lot of cwejman modules and many people told me they sound very moogish.. i do have some hardware moogs but they dont sounds like my cwejman system... i would put em more in the roland 101ish corner if had to compare them to vintage but more accurate and sharp.
the drive and vibe of the MMF's is something i cant compare to anything else out there.

you can create that vibe from the past not just in euro and filters are indeed the way to do that. i am in love with the verbos stuff and i also dig the schippmans..

on the other side there are a lot of cheaper modules like the ripples, sisters, apeture , Euro-Serge or MMG wich is use a lot.

i have a old oberheim matrix 12 and a new SEM pro but i never heard anything like this in euro. There are some SEM filters and i had my hands on some but i did not really fell in love...

i had atlantis wich is supposed to sounds like a sh-101, well i have a 101 since 2 decades and still use it. it did not sound like it at all. there are some "semi"sweet spots (i didnt liked that module to much) where it has the vibe of a 101 but that has nothing to do with the sonic picture of the real one.
same problem with most clones, there are some spots where you can come close to that vintage sound, but in a mix with other tracks summing and tracking... well its just not there, does not cut thru varies to much in tone and so on

the good thing with euro-filters is having access to many different filters,tones, characters to use not just in modular but also for line studio signals from synths, vst's samplers or my freaking iphone
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Favorite filter by far, Rossum Evolution. Perfect for those mid-80’s DM type sounds, total vintage sound. Wish I had room for another. Everything sounds good through it.

For modern, 303 type crunch without needing to add additional distortion, WMD Aperture.

Most versatile, WMD/SSF MMF. Only 4hp, and it has a ping input that sounds really, really good.

Most disappointing is the Belgrad. Keep thinking I need to find the “sweet spot”, but never had that problem with the Evolution.
I have the evo too. I think sometimes it almost sounds too good if thats possible. and too clinical. But then I turn a few knobs and then its gets wild as hell again.

wmd aperture you say. I was kinda considering this one a few months back or if it was even a year back when it was new. I basically didnt dare to buy it in the end. I'm a big wmd fan though. I think they make the absolutely best vca (amplitude), env (mm), and i also love the quad att (sounds stupid but its essntial for me).
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Oh yeah I forgot wanted to share a finding with the evo vs the aion 904a (moog modular lp clone). And one day when i did a shoot out between these 2 decieding if i was going to keep the 904 I noticed what the 904 does some things the evo cannot recreate. surprise surprise! The 904 is much much more raw and unbehaved and meaner sounding.

I could not get really that close to it with the evo in actual sound (but i could get very close in character if you know what i mean, character 100% accurate). And I tried! I had to keep the 904. Its a one trick pony of course. if you can call a moog filter that.
But when recreating its sound with the evo, the evo just sounded like it was a vst vs the real thing basically. So One thing that the evo cannot recreate is a 904. it gets close, but not if youre really tuning/adjusting **** for good sound imo. then it dont.

It sounds good though. very very good. I wonder how accurately it does a minimoog sound. I'm guessing it will be similar to my findings. gets close but not 100% maybe 90%
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossicle View Post
I can't get over my fantasy of playing the Blade Runner intro lead over and over again in complete solitude, drinking some black label from the Cibi whiskey glass. Yeah yeah, how original.

I've read (probably from Muff) that 2 consecutive Doepfer SEM filters can get close to a CS80 lead - maybe even closer than the discontinued dedicated CS80 filters. As to the osc's, probably a pair of powerful saw cores? Would the character of the VCA play a significant role? Gotta try this sooner or later, but would be interesting if any one have had success with something like this. I have no idea what would come close to the CS80/60/50 VCO in sawtooth.

Forget about the feeble youtube alpha juno or Ensoniq etc. attempts. Not convincing.
THIS is fukkning interesting!
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
mekanik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
What are you saying? hmmm Some filters are really useful when combining it with some other soundsources.
But i'm not trying to recreate a classic SEM sound.


Filters eh
Not eurorack but the MOTM-440 are still my favorites. There's a eurorack version as well it's good but not the same (doesn't have that soft sound just before resonating, that I like, IMO it's more "direct" sounding)
Here's some factory demo samples (recorder, trumpet), which sold me on buying these back then.
I'm using them on a mix this weekend funking up an overcompressed bassline&drums track, and I'll post some audio of that in this post later.
They're expensive eggs. But I've never had the feeling I made a wrong choice. Desert island filter? This.

This Hearn Morley hm2040 also sounds close HM2040 - Hearn Morley

Keep that Sea Devils. But IMO treat it like a weird seventies sci-fi thing. That's what it's good at. Weird bubbly textures and strange sweeps with lots of spring reverb. I think it's got more character than a lot of other filters.
Get the JOVE. It sounds good and, while it's not a SEM filter, I think it's one of the best out there for little money (DIY). In fact; get two, use as stereo pair and spice it up with some reverb. I think you'll be happy.
Or just pawn your car and get that SEM module ha!
Well basically that very video sold me on getting a synth in the first place.
I was contemplating getting a SEM or a modular that could do more. i ended up with a modular. But now maybe 2 years back i got a sem filter and trying to recreate the sem sounds with it. not a fuikkinch chanće! lol

But i still feel i made the right decision, because my first modular goes way beyond that sem. but it will never make that sem. I accept that now.

---------------------

I have the e440 euro version. I think its very good. Its very brutal and beefy somehow. but irts not one of my favs. It may be my most useful filter (it basically does everything very good and surgical). but its not my favorite soundin one. Maybe its simply too good so it gets a bit boring? i dont know. But i have 10 or so filters. so i'm not in any dependent on it.

I think i will keep the sea devils. It does bring this "crystal clear" sound to things somehow. Like no other filter i own can.

I have a jove!! yeah muthatfukka!
its one of my most fun and rewarding filters. with some sequences and some notes and some modulation on that sucker it sounds so good I almost cream my poants. Its much better than the jupiters ever were if set right. I think the SE tonestar 8106 is close though. But not so close one could replace the other. they cant. the jove basically takes the rolandy sound to 11. and the 8106 only to 9. But i think the 8106 is actyally 100% roland if you really compare things.

I have never felt any of my filter choices have been wasted money though. I get enjoyment out of them. then its worth it.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisTR View Post
in my opinopn you can never recreate a classic synth with a modular system. voltage, parts, signal flow caused artefacts and so on. i

but vice versa can no classic synth sound like your modular.
In my world, filters are the most important part of any synth
i got a lot of cwejman modules and many people told me they sound very moogish.. i do have some hardware moogs but they dont sounds like my cwejman system... i would put em more in the roland 101ish corner if had to compare them to vintage but more accurate and sharp.
the drive and vibe of the MMF's is something i cant compare to anything else out there.

you can create that vibe from the past not just in euro and filters are indeed the way to do that. i am in love with the verbos stuff and i also dig the schippmans..

on the other side there are a lot of cheaper modules like the ripples, sisters, apeture , Euro-Serge or MMG wich is use a lot.

i have a old oberheim matrix 12 and a new SEM pro but i never heard anything like this in euro. There are some SEM filters and i had my hands on some but i did not really fell in love...

i had atlantis wich is supposed to sounds like a sh-101, well i have a 101 since 2 decades and still use it. it did not sound like it at all. there are some "semi"sweet spots (i didnt liked that module to much) where it has the vibe of a 101 but that has nothing to do with the sonic picture of the real one.
same problem with most clones, there are some spots where you can come close to that vintage sound, but in a mix with other tracks summing and tracking... well its just not there, does not cut thru varies to much in tone and so on

the good thing with euro-filters is having access to many different filters,tones, characters to use not just in modular but also for line studio signals from synths, vst's samplers or my freaking iphone
I fully agree with your findings and thoughts. This is basically what I found out too. basically the modular is always its own thing no matter how your wrench the knobs, it just is. no matter what filters.

I still like it though since it goes so far. with the right stuff.


btw have any of guys heard this tune below?

I had just finsished my fisrst succesful grow of white widow, in th early 2000s
I smoked a whole pipe 0,3g, put this tune on and just laid down in my bed.
I think this tune was in one of hernan cattaneos sets from the womb in tokyo. 2003-4 or so.

and when i heard this **** i ****ing knew i had to have a really bad ass synth. i knew there and then. and this was the future. this youtube version one is quite ****ty sound quality imo (i have it on vinyl).

Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Ossicle's Avatar
Talkin bout nice saw waves:

Old 1 week ago
  #15
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekanik View Post
wmd aperture you say. I was kinda considering this one a few months back or if it was even a year back when it was new. I basically didnt dare to buy it in the end. I'm a big wmd fan though. I think they make the absolutely best vca (amplitude), env (mm), and i also love the quad att (sounds stupid but its essntial for me).
When you drive the feedback, the Aperture has that perfect "crunch" to it ... you can easily get into 303 / Rat territory. It's a techno beast. Plus, it eats modulation even better than the Evolution.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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Here's what I've been playing with tonight with the Aperture. VCO is Twin Wave going through a DTM. I'm tweaking two envelopes on Peaks, one the VCA and the second is the LP in on Aperture along with playing with the Width and Frequency knobs. The rest is mainly samples on the ER-301 going through various other filters.

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