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Why maths? Modular Synthesizers
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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mekanik's Avatar
 

Why maths?

Its 2 function generators with variable slope and variable timing, and then some attenuverters.

I have these. I wonder if maths can do anything these can't? (give or take)




Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Maths is one of the most useful modules for a small system, almost as useful as the ones you posted. There is a lot of overlap in euro these days. I think Maths is nice but it's not the only kid on the block anymore. My personal favorite alternative is the Double Andore II but everyone has different preferences.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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I'm just surprised that apparently "everybody needs a maths"; or do they?? I think those posted above is more useful than a maths. Or at the very least just as useful.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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subdo's Avatar
As far as using Maths as an EG you have it more than covered. It's a also a great slew generator though and a passable envelope follower although a little tricky to dial in. Also logic and CV mixing. The thing I've found with Maths is my use of it changed as my system and skill using it grew. It's also a great little Swiss army knife in a small rack.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
there's been some talk about it before.
to answer your question: the ones you posted are either AD or ADSR envelopes, while the Maths is an example of a "universal slope generator" (first on Serge systems as the DUSG and there's a Buchla 281 (slightly different))
which is also a sort of Attack/Decay envelope but also can cycle (so it's an LFO) and it can be used as filter etc.

lots of examples in this video:


I'm getting a Befaco Rampage. Because I like DIY, I like what Befaco do, and it can do a lot.

And some old Bananalogue VCS but those need a faceplate.
(if anyone has a file (Scheaffer or something like that) for the frontpanel, I'd be grateful for that!)


there's also this, which is the mother of all of above
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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So what is the practical difference between a "universal slope generator" and an AD or AR?

Also the multimode does whatever you want it to.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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mekanik's Avatar
 

I mean you want some kind of slope/env out of it right. So then whats the difference?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbirge View Post
....My personal favorite alternative is the Double Andore II but everyone has different preferences.
yeah! another good one.
I have the V1 but that's a wild beast, not recommended as only Slope generator in a small system.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekanik View Post
I mean you want some kind of slope/env out of it right. So then whats the difference?
yeah but a slope gen has a CV input so you can pitch it, it has comparator points, and end-out so you can feed it back on itself (into the trigger) so it cycles and becomes an LFO. it's also a slew generator and a filter (same thing really, but different application)
then there's some logic functions and mostly it comes in a pair so you can connect it in funky ways, feedback loops etc., not possible with a regular AD.
I have some Toppobrillo 281 (buchla) clones which are sort of regular AD but then with a cycle function. Because its nice to have some "normal" envelopes too. It's like that Qu-Bit Contour.
I sold all my ADSR modules. I just didn't use those anymore but I may grab one. Dunno.

Here's another (281 type) evelope which is a lot of fun: you can chain the differnt AD slopes for one huge shape.
Of course that's possible with any envelope that has an end-out trigger output. Stupidly I sold mine. but I'll get another some day


So... no, in my opinion, not everyone needs a Maths but it's nice to have because of it's flexibility.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekanik View Post
I mean you want some kind of slope/env out of it right. So then whats the difference?
It's the slope part. The input on Maths or any of these DUSG type modules will take more than a gate. It can take a v/0 signal and create slew between the notes. You could even slew the output of a completely different envelope to make it longer. It's actually a really simple concept that has lots of different uses. Like when used as an ASR type envelope, it will output the level of the gate it's sent rather than just using the gate to determine when the R happens in the ADSR. Essentially the level of the S is the level you send in. So if you were to send a gate through a VCA you can create velocity at the envelope level. I wouldn't say a slope generator type module is ESSENTIAL. But it's a neat tool to have in the box.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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intuitionnyc's Avatar
Maths is sick. There is a LOT of functionality in that hp.

Another fav of mine is Pamela's New Workout. A lot of functions but a little more menu diving.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
yeah but a slope gen has a CV input so you can pitch it, it has comparator points, and end-out so you can feed it back on itself (into the trigger) so it cycles and becomes an LFO. it's also a slew generator and a filter (same thing really, but different application)
then there's some logic functions and mostly it comes in a pair so you can connect it in funky ways,
Yeah i get the CV-control of the thing. Cv is cool. But both the contour (does cv in on both a/d) and the expanded multimode does cv for everything. and end of cycle for everything, and stage shape of everything. and its adjustable stages all inall. you want adr it does that.

also the intelljel actuially seems to have some kind of cv input with the "level". and i have no fukking idea what it does or how it works. but it does something.

From what I have seen "in practice". most people just want some envelopes. maybe also a looping one that dont need triggers. and all the ones i posted above does that. also at lfo freqs.

I understand the function of the maths no sh1t but is it really that universally needed these days (talking like form 4 years ago to now). I'm a bit sceptical to that.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intuitionnyc View Post
Maths is sick. There is a LOT of functionality in that hp.

Another fav of mine is Pamela's New Workout. A lot of functions but a little more menu diving.
ok so today. if you had the choice to buy either maths or something else for your specific needs would you still get it??

I think i made my choice clear since i own all the modules in the first post. I felt they were simply "moar better" somehow.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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And no I'm not on a sh1t-slinging parade of make noise. just saying.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subdo View Post
It's the slope part. The input on Maths or any of these DUSG type modules will take more than a gate. It can take a v/0 signal and create slew between the notes. You could even slew the output of a completely different envelope to make it longer. It's actually a really simple concept that has lots of different uses. Like when used as an ASR type envelope, it will output the level of the gate it's sent rather than just using the gate to determine when the R happens in the ADSR. Essentially the level of the S is the level you send in. So if you were to send a gate through a VCA you can create velocity at the envelope level. I wouldn't say a slope generator type module is ESSENTIAL. But it's a neat tool to have in the box.
Tomorrow when i'm less drunk i'm gonna read this again and understand it.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Old 1 week ago
  #17
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Derp's Avatar
I got Maths late in the game, so I wasn't as impressed with it as others are. The reason for being unimpressed though is because I have most of what it can do covered elsewhere. If you've got a limited size for your system, then Maths makes a whole lot of sense. If you've got your envelope/LFO bases covered, then maybe look into some sort of function generator like Tides or PEG. In the most basic sense, a function generator is the same as a loopable envelope, but being able to alter the curves, especially dynamically or with reciprocating modulation, is a really cool trick. When I started, I wasn't a fan, but now I like functions modules so much that when Tides V2 came out, I snagged a second V1 so I can have two function generators that modulate each other like Maths does, but with a little more control over the waveshapes.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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The thing with Maths is that it’s more than the sum of its parts-I don’t think it does it justice of you just look at it as a module for envelopes, LFOs etc. I also find a lot of people who ask this question don’t always grok what you can do with things like slew. Like @subdo, my uses for Maths have changed as my rig has grown, and while it’s not necessarily the first thing I reach for any longer, there’s almost always a point in a patch that I think “I want to do XYZ”, and then I remember Maths is sitting right there and can do it.

Another advantage of Maths is how incredibly well documented it is. I can’t think of another eurorack module that has anything close to the number of tutorials and videos out there. Maybe that turns some people off because they think of it as being common, but I see it more as being a deep module with a staggering number of uses and a wide range of community support to help you find new applications for it.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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gruvsyco's Avatar
To answer the question of would I still buy one today, I did just get my 3rd (I had a V1 and V2, bought a 2nd V2 to have a matching pair the V1 is going up for sale). It was a harder decision this time around... I very seriously contemplated the DUSG and since then, Fraptools announced the Falistri which looks completely badass.

Old 1 week ago
  #20
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base615's Avatar
Maths really comes into its element when you're patching between the two sides.

I've posted this before but it's a great start on what you can do with it - http://w2.mat.ucsb.edu/mat276n/resou...-printable.pdf
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gruvsyco View Post
To answer the question of would I still buy one today, I did just get my 3rd (I had a V1 and V2, bought a 2nd V2 to have a matching pair the V1 is going up for sale). It was a harder decision this time around... I very seriously contemplated the DUSG and since then, Fraptools announced the Falistri which looks completely badass.

Man, that looks awesome
Old 1 week ago
  #22
There are lots of different ways to get to the same end point.
I had Maths and sold it. I have Function, which is less than half of Maths, but good enough for me.
I have to say I found the WMD Multi-Mode Envelope frustrating, never being able to dial in exactly the envelope I was looking for.
Maths is actually easy to use and is great value for what you get (especially second hand).
Old 1 week ago
  #23
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drxcm's Avatar
 

Maths is awesome.. also, slew.
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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Audiorate's Avatar
 

I find for deep modules with several parameters, like Maths, you have to periodically revisit their manuals, tutorial-ish videos, and even forum discussions. If you don't, you can get too comfortable with a narrow set of uses for the module and forget or remain ignorant about what else it can do, and, eventually, feel like the module is not that special or lacking something shinier new modules seem to have.
Old 4 days ago
  #25
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How snappy can you make the Maths as envelope? I don't mean kick drum punchy but string pluck-physical-acoustic type snappy?

I've read that it can get snappy in that way, but can't seem to find demos.

The reason I'm asking is I need a 'heart' module for my first eurorack and the Maths is seems like a safe and versatile go-to choice. But for me it's important that it can be used for envelopes for acoustic type plucks and bongos. Although I usually dislike hopping on bandwagons in this case it could be worth it.

Then again, if I knew better I might be able to combine two modules for the price of Maths for something more interesting... hmmm, Derp mentioned Tides...

I already have the Manhattan DTM mixer and an Envelator arriving soon + some oscs and filters.
Old 4 days ago
  #26
Gear Head
@Ossicle; Maths can be pretty snappy, but from your description it sounds like what you really want is a good LPG.
Old 4 days ago
  #27
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterPhase View Post
@Ossicle; Maths can be pretty snappy, but from your description it sounds like what you really want is a good LPG.
Or the slutty option - both. Optomix and Maths are a great combo. I find that my pinging my v1 Optomix with a trigger is really too short for a good bongo patch but with Maths it will do all kinds of plucks and percussive strikes. I guess this comes down to the vactrol lottery though.
Old 4 days ago
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterPhase View Post
@Ossicle; Maths can be pretty snappy, but from your description it sounds like what you really want is a good LPG.
Indeed. But to my understanding a good EG can add to that. I wish could found some find demos where the Maths was used like that.

I currently have the Doepfer A-101-2 LPG for testing and use the Beh Neutron envelopes, and the results are mostly hard and clicky which I think is mostly due to the Neutron's poor envelopes, and maybe also my the Doepfer and my lack of skill.
Old 4 days ago
  #29
Gear Head
Yeah, the vactrol lottery.. I had an Optomix v2 and really, really disliked it. It honestly kind of put me off wanting to get any more Make Noise modules because I was so disappointed. I've seen quite a few people saying they preferred v1, though. Got it replaced with Natural Gate during the second batch they released. It sounds great with just a trigger/gate, don't have to modulate it with envelopes like Optomix.

Maths is on probation period in my rack at the moment Just as some others have mentioned in the thread I have most of the functions I would actually use covered elsewhere, often with modules that is much easier to dial in than Maths.
Old 4 days ago
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterPhase View Post
Maths is on probation period in my rack at the moment Just as some others have mentioned in the thread I have most of the functions I would actually use covered elsewhere, often with modules that is much easier to dial in than Maths.
Care to list those modules which cover your most often used features of the Maths?

Nice to know about your experiences with Natural Gate, gotta check it out. Not the cheapest though, but seems to have a nice set of features.
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