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Behringer Model D - DIY Mods
Old 25th January 2019
  #121
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Maffez's Avatar
Hey, updated Modding guide here with the paraphonic mod and a (provisional) VCA input.

Edit: sounddemo here: Behringer Model D Extension "Model M" by Uibkmedan | M M | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Attached Files
Old 25th January 2019
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHornBlower View Post

Is that the entire right hand end of the PCB, with the volume knob etc?

A wide angle shot showing the whole PCB, for context, would be good too.
Yeah, that's the right hand end.

Have included the thing in an updated modding guide, where you can see more clearly where it's at.

Have played a bit more with this and find while a simple in does work well when the filter is closed, a two-parallel-filter setup tends to roughen up the internal vco signal of the Behringer. So if that is desired, working with an insert (vcf out/vca in) and active attenuation might be cleaner. For simple insert stuff (vco out and another filter's output into vca), however, this is good enough I think.

cheers
Old 25th January 2019
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
Have included the thing in an updated modding guide, where you can see more clearly where it's at.
The guide has some interesting mods. I like the idea of being able to modulate PWM. It's one of my favourite features of my Doepfer A-111-3 VCO. Is the CV going to the point between the 7k5 and the 1k resistors, in your diagram, effectively?

I've considered whether it would be worth adding a waveform mixer, but it would be a lot of knobs and wiring, to mix all the waveforms for each of the three oscillators, even if it was just passive mixing.

That simplifies it a bit though, since there's only really one pulse output, with variable length, to go into the mixer for each VCO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
.. while a simple in does work well when the filter is closed, a two-parallel-filter setup tends to roughen up the internal vco signal of the Behringer. So if that is desired, working with an insert (vcf out/vca in) and active attenuation might be cleaner. For simple insert stuff (vco out and another filter's output into vca), however, this is good enough I think.
Fair enough. I guess the external signal might influence the oscillators, in some way, or it might just be that the levels need turning down so the total signal doesn't clip... or it might need a bigger resistor to feed the external filter in, so it doesn't swamp the signal from the internal one.

Either way, I'd be fine with being able to just use an external filter instead of the 24dB one, as an option.

I've changed through-hole capacitors in things, and it rarely went as smoothly as I'd like - not enough solder coming off, holes getting filled in with solder as I pulled the legs out, and so on... Quite possibly, I'm just really bad at de-soldering So, I'm in favour of mods that just let me tack wires on without doing that.
Old 27th January 2019
  #124
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Added this to modulargrid should folks want to plan/imlement it in their racks

Behringer Model M - Eurorack Module on ModularGrid
Old 27th January 2019
  #125
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Hi, anyone knows if the (red, blue, etc) plastic caps clipped on the switches are removable? I tried to remove them but didn't dare pulling too hard since it looks like something might break…
Old 27th January 2019
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naos View Post
Hi, anyone knows if the (red, blue, etc) plastic caps clipped on the switches are removable? I tried to remove them but didn't dare pulling too hard since it looks like something might break…
They have little flaps on the sides where you can yank them out with a flat screwdriver. Need to take the panel off for that.
Old 28th January 2019
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
They have little flaps on the sides where you can yank them out with a flat screwdriver. Need to take the panel off for that.
really? thanks for the tip ! the switches on the PCB don't feel very sturdy.
Old 28th January 2019
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naos View Post
really? thanks for the tip ! the switches on the PCB don't feel very sturdy.
Apparently, they're mini toggle switches, with a rocker cap fitted to them - or that's what synthpro had on the prototype in this video:

YouTube

If they're still the same ones, they're probably "through hole" not SMD, i.e. with legs going through holes in the PCB, and soldered on the other side. If so, they should be pretty sturdy - just hold on to the body of the switch as you prise the rocker cap off.

Possibly what you're feeling is play between the plastic rocker and the actual lever of the switch.
Old 28th January 2019
  #129
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they're through hole
Old 28th January 2019
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
Added this to modulargrid should folks want to plan/imlement it in their racks

Behringer Model M - Eurorack Module on ModularGrid
I've never tried using that. It seems like a good idea though. I'd need a Doepfer A-111-3 mounted sideways, among other things - that's how I have the one in my wooden box, with most of my modular stuff mounted in it.

I've been wondering if someone sells just the pre-drilled face plates / panels. Obviously there are a lot of possible arrangements of holes, but I've found accurate pilot drilling is the hard part - so if they were all made the right size for sockets, drilling them out to take pots wouldn't be too hard.

Thonk (UK) have the odd one for kits, but they're mostly quite expensive for what they are.

I made a dual passive attenuator out of a PC / PCI back plate - the sort that fills a hole when there's no PCI card in that slot. In that case, I bought a cheap sound card that already had most of the holes I wanted for sockets, drilled one wider, to take a pot, and added one more.

They're a similar size to a 4HP module - about 18mm wide vs 20mm or just over, and a few mm shorter - or longer, if you hammer the folded part at the top flat. They're close enough to be worked into a Eurorack setup fairly easily, but I might stick to using those in a separate small case.

I've also tried making a panel from just a blank PCI back plate, but I found it quite hard to get the holes drilled exactly where I wanted. I used a really crap Maplin (RIP) automatic centre punch, which was probably a mistake. The traditional sort, and a hammer, would be better. Drilling a thin plate is trickier than I expected - the metal deforms to find the best way to resist the drill bit. I resorted to pilot drilling with 1.2mm tungsten carbide drill bits, which break really easily.

So, to return to the point, a source of pre-drilled panels with some basic hole arrangements, pre-drilled to the smallest useful size, would be good.
Old 28th January 2019
  #131
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there's na cool source on panel diy here - but access to proper tools etc needed.

DIY Modular Synth: Making Module Panels – Morocco Dave

my incompetetence in terms of drilling neat holes brought me to multiples. yet, i could also see soemthing as the thonk faceplate of the VnIcursla vca, for instance, being useful. good holes per $ ratio
Old 28th January 2019
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
there's na cool source on panel diy here - but access to proper tools etc needed.

DIY Modular Synth: Making Module Panels – Morocco Dave

my incompetetence in terms of drilling neat holes brought me to multiples. yet, i could also see soemthing as the thonk faceplate of the VnIcursla vca, for instance, being useful. good holes per $ ratio
That's a good link. Having good tools helps a lot. When I was at school, and had the use of a drill press, and proper lathes - not just hobby grade stuff, but small scale industrial ones - I could make all sorts of things out of steel that I wouldn't even attempt, now.

I'm not sure where "here" is, for you... Ordering from the US to here is rarely worth the cost, so maybe it's the same problem for you ordering from here - assuming Thonk send things overseas.

As you may have noticed, searching that site is a bit of a challenge. Results are always presented as categories of things, not as individual things. We have to pay the VAT on top of those prices too, which is 20%, so not inconsiderable.

I happened to find a cheaper alternative. I don't know what the panels are actually made from yet, but I've ordered a few to find out - I'd settle for plastic.

I've borrowed the picture from the bottom of the page, which is needed to work out what you're ordering (attached). They're LZX Industries – Castle Video Modular, which is apparently a Canadian company.... I've just noticed they have other similar ones, in red:

LZX Industries – Castle Video Modular | Thonk - DIY Synthesizer Kits & Components - black and white

LZX Industries – Cadet Video Modular | Thonk - DIY Synthesizer Kits & Components - red and white (but some of the holes are drilled for RCA sockets, not 3.5mm jacks)

... and here's their own website: LZX Industries - video instruments for video artists
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Model D - DIY Mods-castle-gallery.jpg  
Old 28th January 2019
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHornBlower View Post
That's a good link. Having good tools helps a lot. When I was at school, and had the use of a drill press, and proper lathes - not just hobby grade stuff, but small scale industrial ones - I could make all sorts of things out of steel that I wouldn't even attempt, now.

I'm not sure where "here" is, for you... Ordering from the US to here is rarely worth the cost, so maybe it's the same problem for you ordering from here - assuming Thonk send things overseas.

As you may have noticed, searching that site is a bit of a challenge. Results are always presented as categories of things, not as individual things. We have to pay the VAT on top of those prices too, which is 20%, so not inconsiderable.

I happened to find a cheaper alternative. I don't know what the panels are actually made from yet, but I've ordered a few to find out - I'd settle for plastic.

I've borrowed the picture from the bottom of the page, which is needed to work out what you're ordering (attached). They're LZX Industries – Castle Video Modular, which is apparently a Canadian company.... I've just noticed they have other similar ones, in red:

LZX Industries – Castle Video Modular | Thonk - DIY Synthesizer Kits & Components - black and white

LZX Industries – Cadet Video Modular | Thonk - DIY Synthesizer Kits & Components - red and white (but some of the holes are drilled for RCA sockets, not 3.5mm jacks)

... and here's their own website: LZX Industries - video instruments for video artists
Cool to learn such useful things We never did that at school.

And yeah, forgot that Thonk are across the pond. For Austria it's usually stuff like musikding or munichenaudio in Germany. if you're in the uk, frequencycentral might be an option - Multipoles DIY | Frequency Central


Saw in a Pharmasonic Sy-Core thread at Muff's that a guy did panels at a local fablab. Thnakfully we have one here up in the Alps, but on the other hand I'm too lazy for that stuff. If I'd be more industrious I reckon there'd be some aftermarket for panles or an extension for the boog case itself (just a row of jacks, pots and switches above the panel, the wires of which you could just put through a hole into the inside.

That lzx stuff looks extensive and not too costy!

the 9-hole multiple I'm using is not bad but bends a little backwards, so may need a bit of stabiization for plugging and pulling jacks.
Old 29th January 2019
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
And yeah, forgot that Thonk are across the pond. For Austria it's usually stuff like musikding or munichenaudio in Germany. if you're in the uk, frequencycentral might be an option - Multipoles DIY | Frequency Central

Saw in a Pharmasonic Sy-Core thread at Muff's that a guy did panels at a local fablab. Thnakfully we have one here up in the Alps, but on the other hand I'm too lazy for that stuff...

That lzx stuff looks extensive and not too costy!

the 9-hole multiple I'm using is not bad but bends a little backwards, so may need a bit of stabiization for plugging and pulling jacks.
Yes, I have a couple of 2HP modules, with fibreglass panels, that bend a little bit. I'll let you know how I get on with the LZX Castle ones - which are on their way from Thonk.

Musikding looks good. I've looked at that site before, but never looked into the postage situation. I can't find anyone selling pre-drilled guitar pedal enclosures in the UK. I'd like some of those.

I made a passive guitar/synth filter and a small headphones amp just in thin tin boxes, so I could cut the holes easily - with a hand held step drill bit. It works well enough, but it would be nice to build things properly. There's a fablab near here too, I think, but I can't really face getting involved with something like that either.

The frequencycentral site baffled me, on first look, and I can't actually see anything I'd want, but I'll keep an eye on it. Some of the things on the munichen-audio site would have to be explained to me, I think. I looked at a few things and really couldn't figure out what I'd do with one, or why I'd want one
Old 3rd February 2019
  #135
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FWIW, I got the LZX Industries Castle Video Modular 4HP panels, I ordered from Thonk. I bought a couple each of the multiple style ones, and the two types with holes for two knobs plus some sockets - one with more space between the knobs than the other, but one less socket.

They're fibreglass or glass reinforced plastic (GRP), and they do flex a bit. They're pretty good for the money though.

I also found some Dell vented PCI back panels, with a single line of holes down the middle, drilled to about 4mm. They can be drilled out to take 3.5mm sockets - in every other hole, or there's just about enough metal left if they're drilled out to take a small pot, in every third hole.

I put some sockets and pots on one to try it for fit. I used a step drill bit, with 1mm steps (3mm to 13mm), held in a screwdriver handle. It's easier than getting a power drill out, and much safer.

I've attached a picture I borrowed from one of the ebay listings - I found some cheaper, but that was a better picture.

I plan to have a small case with just some of those, for utilities. They're about 3.5HP, but a bit different in length.

Dell also made one with two columns of holes, but I don't think those would be as useful, and maybe not as stiff.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Model D - DIY Mods-dell-pci-vented-blanking-plate-dd463-example-.jpg  
Old 3rd February 2019
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHornBlower View Post
FWIW, I got the LZX Industries Castle Video Modular 4HP panels, I ordered from Thonk. I bought a couple each of the multiple style ones, and the two types with holes for two knobs plus some sockets - one with more space between the knobs than the other, but one less socket.

They're fibreglass or glass reinforced plastic (GRP), and they do flex a bit. They're pretty good for the money though.

I also found some Dell vented PCI back panels, with a single line of holes down the middle, drilled to about 4mm. They can be drilled out to take 3.5mm sockets - in every other hole, or there's just about enough metal left if they're drilled out to take a small pot, in every third hole.

I put some sockets and pots on one to try it for fit. I used a step drill bit, with 1mm steps (3mm to 13mm), held in a screwdriver handle. It's easier than getting a power drill out, and much safer.

I've attached a picture I borrowed from one of the ebay listings - I found some cheaper, but that was a better picture.

I plan to have a small case with just some of those, for utilities. They're about 3.5HP, but a bit different in length.

Dell also made one with two columns of holes, but I don't think those would be as useful, and maybe not as stiff.
Hey, thanks, cool. Curious how the lzx stuff will look & keep my fingers crossed.

Neat idea with the pci back panels - are they long enough for eurorack? That might be the cheapest option ever if so!
Old 3rd February 2019
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
Neat idea with the pci back panels - are they long enough for eurorack? That might be the cheapest option ever if so!
As they come, they're a little bit shorter, so best in a custom made case, but if you fold the top part flat, they're longer - so they could be straightened in a vice, or maybe with a hammer, then sawed to the exact length.

I have one "case" that's just a small cardboard box, with the flaps folded in. I can sit either a Eurorack module or one made from a PCI back plate (as they come), across it.

The difference would be important if you were trying to fit them to a standard case, with the rails already fitted, but they wouldn't be too difficult to adapt - I guess use any panel that's not fitted to something, as a guide to where to drill the holes.
Old 6th February 2019
  #138
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might as well post it here too

sonic differences between internal mixing and tapping waveforms of vcos directly and mixing them externally (1. tri internal, 2. tri external with increasing harmonic distortion, 3. dynamic blend between tri and saw)

boog triangle wave nerdstuff by Uibkmedan | M M | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 6th February 2019
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
might as well post it here too
Definitely - and good work. Having to pick waveforms from a menu (switch) is one of the less good things about the Minimoog design.

I think it would be good to copy any mod related bits into this thread - if you use the quote button, then Copy, you can paste bits into a new reply in this thread, for example.

Although autoy's Resonance (aka Filter Emphasis) calibration isn't exactly a mod, I think that belongs here too... I'll be back
Old 6th February 2019
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autoy (other thread) View Post
All controls seem a quarter of the range off, even stuff like max decay times or filter envelope amount. Regarding resonance this is a problem because the original range of 7.5 to 10 is the equivalent from 7.8 to 8.5 in my unit. The range where the resonance self oscillation is usable is extremely thin, the rest goes into screamy territory.

The mixer on the original at 10 is equivalent to just 6.5 on the boog, after that it goes from saturation to clipping if you’re using the louder squares. The triangle I haven’t been able to match but that could perfectly be a characteristic of my original vintage unit (wonderfully buzzy top end).

I’ve read Gordon Reid’s article on the minimoog reissue where he highlights some of the differences but none come across as character relevant where in the boog it ruins the sound for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoy - ditto View Post
... dialing everything back to match the original Moog response. I've taken the filter regen calibration forward to start self oscillation at 9, so I get rid of all the useless screamy region, but the area is super thin now. Dialing the mixer back to 6.5-7 gets the saturation from the original too. ...

See what you guys think.

Moog vs Boog take 2 - The Moogiest - Clyp
The trim pot to adjust the limit of Resonance / Emphasis shows up very clearly, in Maffez's first picture of his gate inputs combining mod:

Behringer Model D - DIY Mods - post 92, near the top of that page, almost in the centre of the picture. You reach it through a hole, marked on the underside of the PCB.

Clockwise is less. I used a small (#00) cross-head screwdriver, with a plastic handle - metal handles sometimes affect the results, when you're adjusting something, so plastic is generally better.

I've set it to self resonate from 9, as per autoy's suggestion - which I much prefer. I now get slightly finer control, and it's eliminated the region at the top of the dial, that I didn't like.
Old 7th February 2019
  #141
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Autoy in another thread was reporting filter decay envelope click when decay is fully closed, so I found a quick fix for that - just ground the pin indicated in pic below and you're good to go - audio examples also below

Behringer Model D Decay Env Fix A/B by Uibkmedan | M M | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Model D - DIY Mods-dscn3765.jpg  
Old 7th February 2019
  #142
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while we're at it, just a qucik n dirty sound demo of a post filter drive mod on the boog; still testing but share pics soon

basically, acid style stuff is doable and bleeding ears too.....

Boogdrive Teaser by Uibkmedan | M M | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 8th February 2019
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
- just ground the pin indicated in pic below
Is that the pin on the VCA envelope ("Loudness Contour") Decay pot that's shown as unconnected, on the schematic?

I found the envelopes section of it - assuming it's the same in the release version. I'd already seen that bit, but I didn't realise that was all of it. I sort of vaguely get how some of it works, but not the whole picture.

Although it's hard to get my head around, it's actually fairly simple in terms of component count.
Old 8th February 2019
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHornBlower View Post
Is that the pin on the VCA envelope ("Loudness Contour") Decay pot that's shown as unconnected, on the schematic?

I found the envelopes section of it - assuming it's the same in the release version. I'd already seen that bit, but I didn't realise that was all of it. I sort of vaguely get how some of it works, but not the whole picture.

Although it's hard to get my head around, it's actually fairly simple in terms of component count.
yeah, might be that unconnected pin.

envelopes work basically with caps that gather voltage and let it go under specific circumstances; grounding in that case has the effect that the cap is propperly drained and that there's no spike in elctricity - roughly like that I think ...
Old 8th February 2019
  #145
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Here's a post-filter overdrive mod for your boog for anyone finding that synth not industrial or acid squelch sounding enough

Put a switch or a pot (500k or greater, so the effect will be properly off when set to zero) and a capacitor of your liking between the two pins indicated below - those pins are the capacitor of the reso part of the m/boog ladder filter and teh capacitor at the beginning of the vca section --> some boosting and feedbacking that plays well with your resonance. different caps give you different tonal results. tried four diefferent ones with increasing resonance seetings and documented the resulting tone here:

Boogdrive by Uibkmedan | M M | Free Listening on SoundCloud

Caps used:

1. 1uf 100v film box type
2. 0.047uf 100v film box type
3. 2.2uf 25 tantal
4. 0.1uf 50v ceramic

I personally liked the 1uf box and the ceramic best and implemented them by means of a dual switch. Poti, of course, would allow for more subtle effects.

This goes absolutely insane when the internal overdrive circuit is used as well.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Model D - DIY Mods-boogdrive-mod.jpg  
Old 8th February 2019
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
I personally liked the 1uf box and the ceramic best and implemented them by means of a dual switch. Poti, of course, would allow for more subtle effects.
Cool

You could use a rotary switch, of course, and have more choices, but they do take up a lot of room.
Old 8th February 2019
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
yeah, might be that unconnected pin.

envelopes work basically with caps that gather voltage and let it go under specific circumstances;
Yep, I'd figured out that capacitor C143, on the schematic, gets charged up during the attack, and discharged to the sustain level during the decay - though some of the details are still a but fuzzy.

Is this mod something you turn on with a switch, when you want it?

What happens if you turn the Decay pot to full (longest decay)? If it's pin 3 of that pot that's being grounded (the unconnected one in the diagram), it looks like C143 wouldn't get to charge up, so I guess the envelope wouldn't trigger?

C143 is the 10uF electrolytic, just to the left of the middle, in the bit of the schematic I've attached (from sheet 3 of 6)...

- that covers the whole of the VCA envelope (Loudness Contour), including the trigger circuit - pretty impressive, really, for just a few transistors. I'm almost tempted to build one, or maybe just the Attack/Decay part, if I can leave out the rest without it misbehaving.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Model D - DIY Mods-vca-envelope-loudness-contour-.jpg  
Old 8th February 2019
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHornBlower View Post
Yep, I'd figured out that capacitor C143, on the schematic, gets charged up during the attack, and discharged to the sustain level during the decay - though some of the details are still a but fuzzy.

Is this mod something you turn on with a switch, when you want it?

What happens if you turn the Decay pot to full (longest decay)? If it's pin 3 of that pot that's being grounded (the unconnected one in the diagram), it looks like C143 wouldn't get to charge up, so I guess the envelope wouldn't trigger?

C143 is the 10uF electrolytic, just to the left of the middle, in the bit of the schematic I've attached (from sheet 3 of 6)...

- that covers the whole of the VCA envelope (Loudness Contour), including the trigger circuit - pretty impressive, really, for just a few transistors. I'm almost tempted to build one, or maybe just the Attack/Decay part, if I can leave out the rest without it misbehaving.
hey, thx for checking back on that one.

just went back to it and found that with decay to full, eg is still triggered, but in my previous probing session i overlooked, that by grounding this pin you lose the sustain part of the envelope --- meh

seems i haven't wrapped fully my head around it either

so, doing it this way, i'd use a switch at any rate to retain old functionality

I think with the mod the missing sustain part can be compensated by starting with higher cutoff and less conbtour amount, but ideally this click coudl be fixed with every part of the env still fully doing it's thing

@ autoy: shame... maybe i should slow down a little an focus on one at a time...

@ Andy : yeah, i think on/off doing some simple a/r envelopes for percussive stuff - electro-music.com has some cool schematics and explanations
Old 8th February 2019
  #149
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also makes sense that when draining c143 (which grounding as above seems to do) it has no charge for sustain left... but exactly change from attack phase to decay causes the click. dunno yet if you can drop the spike and leave sustain easily then - will maybe read a bit up on that
Old 9th February 2019
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffez View Post
... so, doing it this way, i'd use a switch at any rate to retain old functionality

.. yeah, i think on/off doing some simple a/r envelopes for percussive stuff - electro-music.com has some cool schematics and explanations
Yep. It still seems like a useful option to have, anyway.

I hadn't seen that site before. Thanks. I found a categorised index of the schematics, here:

electro-music.com wiki | Schematics / Listbytype

- looks useful.

I now sort of see how the Release On/Off works, and why the Decay pot affects the length of that too... which suggests a fairly simple mod to add another knob for the Release time - I expect that was a fairly common mod for the original Moog Model D.

- see the attachment in my last post. The Release switch is towards the bottom right hand corner - labelled DECAY, for some reason.

With the Release switch in the instant Release position, C143 discharges quickly through R354 (1k5). With it in the timed Release position, that switch is just open, so we have the option of making an adjustable non-instant Release that's quicker than the Decay portion of the envelope (but still influenced by the Decay knob... I think) - or even quicker than "instant Release", to add a click on release (to make Korg fans more at home).

So, we could add a switch to engage the mod, a pot wired as a variable resistor (two connections) to set a faster timed Release (relative to Decay) and a 1k5 series resistor, to set the minimum "instant" Release time, with the mod engaged - or less, for a nasty Release click, but probably best not to go too low, or the capacitor could be damaged... and the pot, and the switch.

It wouldn't require any desoldering or track cutting - it would just need wires tacked onto the Release switch.

The Attack and Decay pots are 1MA (audio taper, aka log pots), so anything up to that value seems appropriate.
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