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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 15th April 2018
  #181
Something like this. But for $300

Old 15th April 2018
  #182
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
And to myself and many other people that is insane and not worth it

This is a thread where Uli Behringer floated the idea to enter the Eurorack market and if he did what would people like.

Many people said they would like for Behringer to make inexpensive powered cases of some kind
That's fine. I would probably welcome that too.
I think the Doepfer LC9 is great value. And the Arturia cases look very nice, albeit more expensive.
People prioritise don't they. I agree with 'fiddlestickz' in that regard. People have six or more hardware synths, then complain that modular racks are too expensive.
Personally, I have prioritised modular. I have one hardwired mono synth and use software for polyphonic.

The idea of Behringer entering Eurorack, making affordable cases, and maybe a few interesting modules?...sure.
It seems like a majority are asking for cheaper versions of modules that already exist though.
Old 15th April 2018
  #183
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daviddever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Also even more remarkable is the amount of people just begging to get into modular but haven't due to the cost, yet prolly have a load of synths and drum machines and a $1000 computer and yet are now going to get into it even though they don't yet know the costs of Behringer stuff yet..??

There is a thriving second hand market for eurorack modules and cases that shows them being significantly cheaper than new yet still people have resisted..?

There are some seriously warped/strange views when it comes to modular on this board.
It's not at all about price IMHO.

Modular is messy in terms of cables, has no global patch recall, and is far less capable when polyphony is considered. It also, to date, remains more expensive per voice (even in Eurorack format) compared to a semi-modular or patchable synth module.

To that end, Dreadbox remains one of the few manufacturers that has offered semi-modular / patchable products that sound good and actually make sense to those of us that are not yet ready for cable sprawl.

There are plenty of arguments for easing into Eurorack, rather than jumping in with both feet, once one's sonic language is ready for change. Neutron, Moog M32/DFAM, and others seem to be the right gateway (start with semi-modular voice, add function generators / ancillary processors, then gradually replace the semi-mod seed module).
Old 15th April 2018
  #184
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddever View Post
It's not at all about price IMHO.

Modular is messy in terms of cables, has no global patch recall, and is far less capable when polyphony is considered.
Those are all arguments to not get into modular, whatever the price.
Old 15th April 2018
  #185
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
People prioritise don't they. I agree with 'fiddlestickz' in that regard. People have six or more hardware synths, then complain that modular racks are too expensive.
Personally, I have prioritised modular. I have one hardwired mono synth and use software for polyphonic.
I think there is a market of younger people who are software only, shopping for their first harware synth and wanting a modular workflow. I see them all the time in university. Their budget is typically <$1000 and they are typically buyer the 0-Coast or Mother 32.

Curious, which hardwired mono did you keep?
Old 15th April 2018
  #186
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grasspike's Avatar
Another idea for Uli, put the XR12 Mixer into Eurorack Form.

I now own 4 of them (plus an X Air 18) they have become the heart of my studio setup. Dozens of insanely good effects, compressor, gate, and EQ on each channel, all kinds of spectrum and audio analysis tools all for $250
Old 15th April 2018
  #187
Here for the gear
 

• tube envelope generator
• tube lfo
• tube trigger generator, pulse shaper
• tube waveslicer, wavefolder
Old 15th April 2018
  #188
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papoon's Avatar
 

If the question is what would get me to start with euro-rack it would be a cheap powered case for sure.

If I were to walk into my local shop and found a case for under $100 dollars and of a good size I could see myself buying it and throwing it on my desk to fill in bit by bit over time.

I love the idea of putting together component by component what you like/want/need. The issue is the cost of entry

To be clear I am not suggesting what the price of a powered case should be or if the current ones are fairly priced. Just saying a ridiculously cheep case would be hard to resist and likely an impulse buy for me.
Old 15th April 2018
  #189
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Summer Of Nebula's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
A second hand Doepfer case is around £200 to £250 pounds, even for the larger ones. Second hand Doepfer modules can be had for less than £50 on Ebay.
Some new modules like Ladik are not much more expensive

I've been using modular since the Doepfer launch in 1995. I have absolutely NO interest in an exclusive club.
My advice, having been a user for 25 years, if you get into Eurorack just for Behringer you will still end up spending $$$$ once you see what the more expensive modules can do. Virtually no one, however poor, has a complete Doepfer system, and every time a new Make Noise, or Mutable Instruments modules is announced, the pre-orders sell out in a matter of hours.
So, buying Behringer isn't going to keep anyone immune to the GAS for more expensive modules.
"So, buying Doepfer isn't going to keep anyone immune to the GAS for more expensive modules."
Old 15th April 2018
  #190
Gear Maniac
 

If you want to be in a synth history - please create something new. Don't clone dozen of legacy systems especially from companies that currently exists (like DSI or Moog). Maybe just for me - the best from euroworld are new and fresh ideas from modern engineers and designers.

It's fun to read that people would like to have mass clones of MI, MN, Buchla (modern products). Behringer can ruin their business and good-minded engineers can change their business into other segment of engineering or just close.
Old 15th April 2018
  #191
Buying a case is kinda like buying a UAD card imho, once your in that system you can fill it but the initial outlay can put people off.

What I like about modular, and in retrospect how I should have approached it, is that it can be built as slowly as you want. So granted you may end up with a system worth $$$ but as these are far smaller increments it can be very affordable. So Id not ask behringer to reinvent the wheel just now, get people dipping their toes then once theyre in that ecosystem they can explore other manufacturers and/or behringer can be more experimental.

I found a case that would cover my needs on reverb for $510...for a single man in a decent paid job its a no brainer, for me however itll take a bit more thought
Old 15th April 2018
  #192
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
That's fine. I would probably welcome that too.
I think the Doepfer LC9 is great value. And the Arturia cases look very nice, albeit more expensive.
People prioritise don't they. I agree with 'fiddlestickz' in that regard. People have six or more hardware synths, then complain that modular racks are too expensive.
Personally, I have prioritised modular. I have one hardwired mono synth and use software for polyphonic.

The idea of Behringer entering Eurorack, making affordable cases, and maybe a few interesting modules?...sure.
It seems like a majority are asking for cheaper versions of modules that already exist though.
Not to turn this into a case thread lol (i already did) six or more hardware synths dont require any more expenditure...an empty case does, its not really a fair comparision, hell I just bought a car I cant complain that Jupiter 8s are expensive

Uli asks what we’d like and I see around half a dozen people said theyd like cheap powered cases...I dont see the point of entering the thread to say your cheap arses, build your own...or you can afford a synth, you can afford a case.

Uli asked, and one of the answers was cheap cases, its not really a point that requires too much debate
Old 15th April 2018
  #193
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Hi Uli
Loving my DM12D and have the D on order and will also be getting the Neutron too, to go with my Mother 32 , so I'm going to need some extra modules and a nice case to put them all in so a low cost extruded, high power case to put them in is certainly one thing I would like to see from Behringer, maybe incorporating that nice locking / pairing design from Arturia which they made open source? it would be nice to see that format take off and become a standard fitting in the industry

As far as modules go, I would like to see some kind of classic oscillators and filters (Oberhien SEM in Euro R etc..) and maybe some low cost basic building blocks like ADS, clock divider etc. On thing I would really like to see is a Miidi to multiple (4 or more) CV outs to drive each voice of my Euro Rack system. Maybe also a sequencer?

I'm so happy to see Behringer taking these steps in the market and bringing the prices down to an affordable lever for everyone
Old 15th April 2018
  #194
Here for the gear
 

Here's the elephant in the room.

Eurorack is a fad, and we're approaching the peak of the fad with the introduction of cheap mass-produced modules. The industry moves in cycles (1970s mono synths, early 80s polys, digital synths and workstations through the 1990s, the emergence of softsynths in the 2000s, the rise of Eurorack in the 2010s).

Eurorack is an expensive and fiddly collector's hobby. A desktop mono or polysynth is far more practical than a eurorack system. Patching is fun. Step sequencing is fun. Having oscillators from three different companies is fun. But at the end of the day, my cheap $400 Novation Bass Station II with patch memories and a lack of spaghetti wires all over the control surface is much more musical, useful and transportable.
Old 15th April 2018
  #195
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Just yesterday I was looking at the costs to get a set of Doepfer road cases to house the modules and voices I have and am looking to get (with room to grow), which would take 4x A100P9s at $675ea and 4x A100PBs at $775ea, that's $5800US for one 8ftx2ft table full of cases. CRAZY is what that is, and it's only that way because none of the current case companies have the same manufacturing capabilities and economies of scale that Behringer and its family of companies have access to.

I'll probably end up modifying some SKB rack cases instead, if no other solutions are available first, which is a tedious pain in the ballsteins, but can be done for THOUSANDS of $$ less and still be travel worthy and more portable than one giant, monolithic, behemoth, or a homemade.

And yes, things like a Happy Ending set of rails and PS should be $50 Retail, tops. It's aluminum rails with screw holes, FFS, and a Power Supply. Dead simple, unbelievably common.

If dudes want to still make fancy stained wood "furniture" type racks, good for them, that's much mire labor intensive than factory made basics. But what we need, IMO, is the SKB type racks for euro... utilitarian, durable, light, portable, and inexpensive, like 1/4th that of Doepfer.

Anyway.

Bravo to Uli and crew for getting into eurorack, I for one welcome our new eurorack overlords.



And I would LOVE to see those 100m modules become a reality, and 2600 modules, and a fully CV controlled Odyssey voice, and loads of fully CV controllable Effects, with a focus on Analog, but with CV enabled ports of the TC digital effects as well, and X18 Mixers too (also, please make the flying faders part of the X18 a separate mixer module, maybe 8 at a time that you can chain).

And please, for the love of all that is holy, just take the Vocoder from the VC340 and make it into a module or desktop unit or both. I really don't need an entire keyboard for a Vocoder.

The effects market of eurorack alone is an enormous opportunity. Heck, if Behringer did nothing but offer more affordable cases and a zillion CV capable and eurorack mountable effects it would be amazing. Just port over the best of your existing effects lineup...

And I, too, hope they steer clear of the boutique manufacturers that truly offer unique and innovative items, like SynthTech and Analogue Solutions, and Mutables, and Rossum. Some of these guys are pushing the boundaries, and as much as I like inexpensive gear, I hope they keep it up. I definitely believe there is room for them and the Behringers of the world to coexist.
Old 15th April 2018
  #196
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Heres my wishlist what comes to mind;

-A powered 2 x 6u 114 hp patchedclosable lightweight suitcase for under 300
-A new unique combfilter delaycombo, with distortion and preferable 2 combfilters
-New dirty filterdistortion waveshaperish modules which sound agressive and musical instead of most very dull sounding existing modules. Preferable combinations of 2 multimode filters and 3 different distortions/waveshapers with many cv accesspoints will be a instantbuy. Will be a great addition for the synths and easy to understand for beginners in the modularworld aswell
-clockable quatro lfo's
-multi effects with many cv inputs and knobs for parameters and made for live tweaking

This would change modularland in a very positive way i think and make modulars accessible for musicians without massive bank accounts. That would be a great stimulation for music and the progression of it worldwide in general

Big thumbs up again and looking forward
Old 15th April 2018
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
And to myself and many other people that is insane and not worth it

Many people said they would like for Behringer to make inexpensive powered cases of some kind

We are not ignorant, we know there are DIY solutions, we have all heard about eBay, what we would like is an inexpensive way to dip our toes in the water so to speak.l
essentially, what's holding people back is:
1/ not wanting to spend 250+quid on a case and a power supply
2/ doubts and lack of confidence with power supply or power supplies
in general

if not, they'd be picking up the odd module already perhaps.
looks like it's a product Behringer could bring to market really
quick, just the cases with power supplies, and they'd sell well,
at the right price. and other manufacturers might not even
resent that, since it opens up their market too. yer gran's going
to be into modular soon.
Old 15th April 2018
  #198
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synthy's Avatar
 

Definitely Buchla!
Old 15th April 2018
  #199
On the constructive tip, how about copying your own designs and making Eurorack versions of your existing rack signal processors like the Composer? Basic signal processing is not a strength of most modular synth manufacturers. A cheap stereo compressor with ducking in Euro would be amazing.

Or

Since it seems like modular is a headache for some, why not ease people into the modular market with some semi-modular synths? People are crying for the Arp 2600 - you could so easily build the TTSH? It's all ready to go. If you want to shoot the moon, go for the holy grail - the Arp 2500. Please. The slider matrix is so dope!

On the business side:
I think Roland's System-1M was a brilliant marketing move - instant modular satisfaction. Yet I wonder about the System 100. Roland doesn't seem to be making a huge effort to expand their Eurorack beyond that, and it could be because it's a hard-sell at retail. Imagine a salesperson who doesn't know (and probably can't afford) modular trying to show someone, who doesn't care either, a System 100 vs. a Fantom that makes amazing sounds with a single key-press. A keyboard is one big sale, a modular is the sum of many individual smaller sales. Put your salesman hat on. Who wins? Traditional modular is a boutique, specialized product that thrives in the high-information sales tradition of studio gear. It seems unlikely to cross-over into the mass-market without major innovation/repackaging (a la the 1M).

Beyond that, unless you can make interesting complex modules very cheaply, it's a crowded market full of a lot of creative, highly engaged people who love to push the envelope (pun intended). If you can't make something radically new (or vintage) and different, it would seem like a very hard road. If you want to make something cheap and powerful, maybe look at making entry-level boxes like the Pocket Operators and Korg Volca series instead. It would suit your distribution model much better.
Old 15th April 2018
  #200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer Of Nebula View Post
"So, buying Doepfer isn't going to keep anyone immune to the GAS for more expensive modules."
Yes, that's right, commonly.
If you are trying to equate Doepfer with behringer, don't forget that Doepfer innovated this whole platform and were out on their own for quite a while.
They weren't a very late comer, cashing in.
Old 15th April 2018
  #201
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandmonkey View Post
essentially, what's holding people back is:
1/ not wanting to spend 250+quid on a case and a power supply
2/ doubts and lack of confidence with power supply or power supplies
in general
There is zero doubt about Doepfer power supplies.
In addition, Arturia have recently announced very nice racks with power. I can't recall people claiming to be concerned about Arturia power.
The reality is, people fear the price of modules in general, and people fear the modular workflow.
You can maybe fix the price of modules by going cheap, but you can't fix the workflow. Modular is a raging fad at the moment, but it's arguably not the right workflow for most people.
Old 15th April 2018
  #202
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post

Uli asked, and one of the answers was cheap cases, its not really a point that requires too much debate
Like I said, it's about assigning priorities to suit your budget.
To me, a second hand three tier Doepfer LC9 is a cheap case.
They are about £250 hardly used and there is at least one on Ebay every week.
Old 15th April 2018
  #203
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midiquestions's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
I found a case that would cover my needs on reverb for $510...for a single man in a decent paid job its a no brainer, for me however itll take a bit more thought
I would not say that's a no-brainer. Having an empty case that you need to spend another $1000 on to make any sort of meaningful sound is still quite an investment, money that could be spent on all sorts of other things, even one of those new Valkyrie things.
Old 15th April 2018
  #204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tr4vlr5 View Post
• tube envelope generator
• tube lfo
What would be the advantage of a tube in a utility module?
Old 15th April 2018
  #205
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midiquestions's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandmonkey View Post
essentially, what's holding people back is:
1/ not wanting to spend 250+quid on a case and a power supply
2/ doubts and lack of confidence with power supply or power supplies
in general

if not, they'd be picking up the odd module already perhaps.
looks like it's a product Behringer could bring to market really
quick, just the cases with power supplies, and they'd sell well,
at the right price. and other manufacturers might not even
resent that, since it opens up their market too. yer gran's going
to be into modular soon.
Yes. I do pick up the odd semi-modular occasionally though. Those are my version of "modules".
Old 15th April 2018
  #206
Gear Addict
 
Zen MD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
If it's just a question of cheap access, maybe modular isn't for you?
Lol who brought cost into this discussion? Not me. Get the f*** outta here!
Old 15th April 2018
  #207
Quote:
Originally Posted by midiquestions View Post
I would not say that's a no-brainer. Having an empty case that you need to spend another $1000 on to make any sort of meaningful sound is still quite an investment, money that could be spent on all sorts of other things, even one of those new Valkyrie things.
I meant a no brainer if you were thinking about building a decent system, not a no brainer if you are not. $510 for 3x 104 hp is more reasonable than some Ive seen.
Old 15th April 2018
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
There is zero doubt about Doepfer power supplies.
In addition, Arturia have recently announced very nice racks with power. I can't recall people claiming to be concerned about Arturia power.
The reality is, people fear the price of modules in general, and people fear the modular workflow.
You can maybe fix the price of modules by going cheap, but you can't fix the workflow. Modular is a raging fad at the moment, but it's arguably not the right workflow for most people.
lol no i meant personal confidence, not lack of confidence in products.
like, not blowing yourself up.
Old 15th April 2018
  #209
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Like I said, it's about assigning priorities to suit your budget.
To me, a second hand three tier Doepfer LC9 is a cheap case.
They are about £250 hardly used and there is at least one on Ebay every week.
Maybe there...dont see many used on ebay here...and it wasnt the size I was looking for.

But Im outta the thread...make ‘em, dont make ‘em...the choice is yours Uli
Old 15th April 2018
  #210
Quote:
Originally Posted by big ol shea View Post
Lol who brought cost into this discussion? Not me. Get the f*** outta here!
That's what B are most known for.
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