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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 15th April 2018
  #151
Lives for gear
 

ppppresumably... some modules could share the same/similar
pcb and components, with some judicious design, for utility
modules/basic functions. thinking about the customer
end, beginner on a budget: some modules must be cheaper
than others to produce? some sort of sub-set utility pack,
with 'versatile' modules: user cuts a couple of traces, and
it becomes this, or cuts a couple of others, and it's something
else.

what, realistically, is the minimum number of modules needed
for a starter rig that's a bit more than a patched-up monosynth?

(btw Markus Fuller recently did a great video where he lazer-cut a
simple little pcb)
Old 15th April 2018
  #152
Here for the gear
 

With your experience from mixer and digital interfaces it would make sense for me if Behringer makes affordable versions of Multieffects(like Tiptop ZDSP), USB to audio and CV-gate interface to connect straight to a computer DAW. A module that can do oscilloscope, VCO, complex LFCO/ADSR like the Mordax Data of stuff like ER-301: Sound Computer. Something that does not exist as far as I know and that I would love is a usb to poly-voice converter module. USB from the computer to a module that outputs gate/and CV to 6 channels that would make it easy to play chords.

Then of course I would love to have modules from rare synths that is impossible to get like Yamaha GX1/CS80, RSF Kobol. But i would like it even more as fullsize clones. The RS PolyKobol tops my list

As for standard modules I think Doepfer are reasonably prices so I don't really long for that.
Old 15th April 2018
  #153
Here for the gear
 

If Behringer can bring down costs of nuts and bolt modules down, then newbies will buy from smaller companies such as MakeNoise and Mutable Instruments whose modules are more expensive but awesome. Behringer can expand the user base for Eurorack which benefits everyone. But it should commit to not cloning modules that are unique and are the bread and butter of innovative companies. These companies benefit all Eurorack users by the diversity of products they create. Behringer shoots itself in the foot if it hurts the innovators because the innovators are what drive gear lust.

Please think of the health of the Eurorack market place as you proceed.
Old 15th April 2018
  #154
FX series

I’d love to see cv controllable versions of your guitar stompbox effects. I spoke with your engineers about this at Knobcon 5 in 2016 when they were showing off the DeepMind 12. I detailed the content of this conversation in a blog post including mock-ups.
vintage-synth: Behringer should make Eurorack modules based on their stompboxes

It would be great to have a 35mm patchbay to use with these effects, and a sequencer would make it super handy.

Love the color of the Neutron and you should consider ignoring the boring black - or - silver shades of most Eurorack modular gear in favor of colorful modules so it’s easier for musicians to pick out which modules are in the rig - because word of mouth and YouTube will be the greatest marketing potential, especially in America where Guitar Center is on the ropes nearing bankruptcy.

Also I’d love to see more choices for cv controllable Eurorack modular sized mixers (as opposed to your standard sized mixers that are branded “Eurorack”).

Last edited by Jsepeta; 15th April 2018 at 02:04 PM.. Reason: Added mixers
Old 15th April 2018
  #155
Gear Addict
 
tricera's Avatar
 

Anything, ANYTHING that would allow me to experience modular without also experiencing bankruptcy and divorce. But rather than conventional modules, I would like to see some unusual, maybe buchla-style stuff to give me options I don't have with the handful of semi-modulars I own.
Old 15th April 2018
  #156
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandmonkey View Post

what, realistically, is the minimum number of modules needed
for a starter rig that's a bit more than a patched-up monosynth?
What's the point.
A patched up mono synth is easier to use than modular.
Old 15th April 2018
  #157
Lives for gear
I’d rather see an arp 2600 than those roland copies. Cheap cases are welcome.
Old 15th April 2018
  #158
Gear Maniac
 
Gunark's Avatar
Kind of related. How about an external box that takes various level signals including euro specifically, and allows you to plug in headphones. Add some tc multifx and a record to SD Function and you’ve a cool box for tinkerng with your modular / other synths without firing up the whole studio, and an easy way to record wiggles for later use. Maybe offer a version with a keystep-like keys, sequencer and CV combo too.
Old 15th April 2018
  #159
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevH View Post
If Behringer can bring down costs of nuts and bolt modules down, then newbies will buy from smaller companies such as MakeNoise and Mutable Instruments whose modules are more expensive but awesome.
And that has happened over the last couple of years....with Behringer versions of already existing Moog, Roland.......hardly bringing alternatives or cheap utilities to market.
Old 15th April 2018
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
What's the point.
A patched up mono synth is easier to use than modular.
yeah sure, it was more of a general question. should've phrased
it differently. essentially there's going to be an initial startup cost
- i mean i'm not sure i'd know what to pick for starters, i think i'd
probably get that side of it up and running initially.
if not, what's the best approach? get a semi-modular and add to
it?
Old 15th April 2018
  #161
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kurzweil's Avatar
I'd like to see digital CV and gate/trigger signal patching developed further via case innovations and internal buss links between modules. That would allow rapid switching between connectors and fewer cables between modules. It would also allow more CV connections to made than panel space normally allows. All CV inputs and outputs from modules are connected to a digital bussing matrix on a module/case and then distributed via linking buttons on each module: press 'out' on one module, press 'in' on another; set the attenuator level on the bussing module; set the attenuation modulation source if required. Eight buses could be offered per module, with more added to the case as needed. Backwards compatibility would be possible via a patch bay version of the bussing module.
Old 15th April 2018
  #162
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
It's remarkable how many posters are posting @Gearslutz for the first time in this thread. Or people with one or two past posts.
Also even more remarkable is the amount of people just begging to get into modular but haven't due to the cost, yet prolly have a load of synths and drum machines and a $1000 computer and yet are now going to get into it even though they don't yet know the costs of Behringer stuff yet..??

There is a thriving second hand market for eurorack modules and cases that shows them being significantly cheaper than new yet still people have resisted..?

There are some seriously warped/strange views when it comes to modular on this board.
Old 15th April 2018
  #163
Gear Head
 

A class compliant USB audio to CV interface, capable of operating up to 96kHz.

At least 16 CV outputs and 8 gate outputs.

A companion MIDI to CV AU/VST plugin with automatic calibration to tune oscillators and calibrate the pitch CV signal:

Gate signal amplitude scaled by MIDI note velocity.
MIDI pitchbend merged with MIDI note pitch.
Mod wheel, aftertouch and several MIDI CC to CV outs.
Legato and glide options.
Old 15th April 2018
  #164
Here for the gear
 

The Model D and Neuron are meeting with a lot of acceptance, and have been an asset, rather than a threat, to the base of eurorack suppliers. It seems to me that the company might do well to build in that direction with products that enhance the broader trade.

A solid, inexpensie multichannel MIDI/USB audio & CV/Gate interface as well as a modular and cost-effective case/power supplies would be 2 items that could give a real boost to the market and build on the existing trends, including the current semi-modular products, as well as the softsynth modular culture.

Many of the folks using VCV or other want to bridge to hardware, but see too drastic of a buy-in being requires. A system of a Model D or Neuron in a case with an audio/CV interface, and some expansion room would meet with quite a bit of approval, I feel

For individual modules, it may be better for the company to concentrate on the vintage recreations for some time. These are the items (VCOs, etc) that are overdue to come down the price curve, and it leaves ample space for innovation at the high end.
Old 15th April 2018
  #165
Gear Head
 
xavierbzh's Avatar
Well Uli, I'd be willing to get this in Eurorack

All needed files for build this clone (juno-106 chorus) - Fox-P-DIYs.over-blog.com

A Juno 106 Chorus clone with control of the rate and the depth as well as switch for Chorus I or II or both

X
Old 15th April 2018
  #166
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post

There are some seriously warped/strange views when it comes to modular on this board.
Totally agree mainly coming from elitist types who can't seem to grasp that people have different tastes and priorities when it comes to gear.

It's like they are afraid they won't be able to hang out at the country club smoking Cuban Cigars and drinking Brandy talking about how the "little people" just don't get modular and the value of dropping thousands to make masterbatory monophonic fart sound videos and bleeps and blops to post on YouTube

When they could be spending the same money on poly synths, effects, etc
Old 15th April 2018
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevH View Post
Cracking the “case”

First barrier to entry = $300 eurorack case and power

Solution = cheaper LEGO like case for individual modules in standard hp sizes.

First LEGO case contains Behringer power source. Next LEGO case snaps to first module to draw power. User buys size of LEGO case to fit new Eurorack module. Example, buy 2hp LEGO case for Pico DSP module, stick into 2hp LEGO case, then snap to First Power module. Newbie is ready to go. As you add more LEGO cases, a Skiff is formed. [power][2hp][12hp][4hp][2hp] Additional snap cases draw power from first module as a chain. [power][12hp][4hp][2hp][2hp]

Make the LEGO case dimensions similar to Behringer Neutron so combined LEGO case of an hp length is a standalone extension or complementary rack for it.

Advantages:
1) low cost of entry
2) buy as much case real estate as you need. Expands as you add. Maximum length determined by first power module.
3) makes re-ordering modules a “snap”
4) Owners can easily test new modules without dismantling existing fully stuffed rack. Save youtubers like DivKid and Molten Music from their boxes of eurorack modules they haven’t installed yet. As long as they have the correct hp length snap case, they can just pop their new module in and snap it to the power source module.
5) friends can borrow and swap modules with each other even at a gig.
6) As close to a real world Modulargrid.com as we can imagine
7) I can add reverb to my ordered Neutron with only two LEGO case modules
8) stand-alone cases for eurorack modules have existed (eg Roland Aria modules like Demora were in desktop standalone cases) but did not snap together to form a skiff. So these modules feel like an alien afterthought sitting besides your eurorack case. But they did prove standalone cases were viable. Snap together cases would feel more at home as they combine to make skiffs that are eurorack standard.
9) Eurorack users can take modules out of snap cases and put them into expensive racks once they commit to a module order. So snap cases do not compete with expensive rack but compliment them. Enable user to ramp up to expensive permanent rigs.
Similar to the Kahnco system?

Thing is that it ends up more complex and expensive (and potentially fragile) than just buying a large case from the start. The flexibility and grow as you go aspects come at a cost.
Old 15th April 2018
  #168
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoo View Post

I'll have 14HP free when I get around to mounting my Model D so I've been thinking about what to put in there..

The happy ending kit.. I don't like losing the 1HP or so for the PSU switch :P It is something that should be cheaper.. especially if you plan out a bunch of rows
I think the PSU switch is 4HP. Which times many rows is a lot of HP I would rather put into modules. This is why I spent considerably more for Trogotronic M15 powered system but holy crap it’s not cheap.

I have been resistant towards buying a Model D specifically because having 14 HP free means having to add another row of power plus a sequencer.
Old 15th April 2018
  #169
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Also even more remarkable is the amount of people just begging to get into modular but haven't due to the cost, yet prolly have a load of synths and drum machines and a $1000 computer and yet are now going to get into it even though they don't yet know the costs of Behringer stuff yet..??

There is a thriving second hand market for eurorack modules and cases that shows them being significantly cheaper than new yet still people have resisted..?

There are some seriously warped/strange views when it comes to modular on this board.
Cant say I agree too much...I had a pretty vanilla two voice 96hp and it didnt leave much change from $1800. That put it as the most expensive synth Ive bought, for two voices, that sounded mediocre.

I think euroracking the Behringers, (3 x 299) in an affordable case, and a handful of modules could come to that same price or less.

Yes their are plenty of second hand modules, the odd doepfer filter or utility etc at behringers proposed price point...but when it comes to the really interesting stuff I just went with softube instead as my money better spent elsewhere.

I know guys like you who are more invested in it maybe think we’re being cheap...maybe we are, but for its limited use I dont want to invest that much, cant speak for others...
Old 15th April 2018
  #170
Here for the gear
 

first post here ...

want I want is

cheap cases with power supply
combined (multi) adsr/vca module
a good tracking filter (1v/oct)
lot of dsp effects (from the pedal serie and from the deepmind )
cheap mixer/output module
the euxoloti
Old 15th April 2018
  #171
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
Totally agree mainly coming from elitist types who can't seem to grasp that people have different tastes and priorities when it comes to gear.

It's like they are afraid they won't be able to hang out at the country club smoking Cuban Cigars and drinking Brandy talking about how the "little people" just don't get modular and the value of dropping thousands to make masterbatory monophonic fart sound videos and bleeps and blops to post on YouTube

When they could be spending the same money on poly synths, effects, etc
A second hand Doepfer case is around £200 to £250 pounds, even for the larger ones. Second hand Doepfer modules can be had for less than £50 on Ebay.
Some new modules like Ladik are not much more expensive

I've been using modular since the Doepfer launch in 1995. I have absolutely NO interest in an exclusive club.
My advice, having been a user for 25 years, if you get into Eurorack just for Behringer you will still end up spending $$$$ once you see what the more expensive modules can do. Virtually no one, however poor, has a complete Doepfer system, and every time a new Make Noise, or Mutable Instruments modules is announced, the pre-orders sell out in a matter of hours.
So, buying Behringer isn't going to keep anyone immune to the GAS for more expensive modules.
Old 15th April 2018
  #172
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Cant say I agree too much...I had a pretty vanilla two voice 96hp and it didnt leave much change from $1800. That put it as the most expensive synth Ive bought, for two voices, that sounded mediocre.
Like some other users, I never recommend buying a complete synth voice for a first time buyer.
It is a waste of money compared to buying the many affordable mono synths.
The magic of Eurorack is in the innovation and esoteric.
Old 15th April 2018
  #173
Gear Head
 
xavierbzh's Avatar
Even cheap casings would be nice

I wanted to put my D in a casing but the only way I can is doing a DIY thanx to the prices. I'd rather spend 300€ on another D or a Pro-One a a Neutron rather than an empty case.

X
Old 15th April 2018
  #174
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Also even more remarkable is the amount of people just begging to get into modular
i did the whole modular thing 12-14 years ago with a large doepfer modular system. it's old hat to me now.
Old 15th April 2018
  #175
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

Please make a decent priced 104 Hp Skiff with a low-noise power supply and distribution board. I think the lowest priced one on the market is $250 and I know you can beat that.
Old 15th April 2018
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
It's remarkable how many posters are posting Gearslutz for the first time in this thread. Or people with one or two past posts.
What's even more remarkable is the number of them who joined today, simply so they could post on a thread that isn't even 24 hours old. I'm truly astonished by the level of interest this is generating.
Old 15th April 2018
  #177
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
A second hand Doepfer case is around £200 to £250 pounds, even for the larger ones.
And to myself and many other people that is insane and not worth it

This is a thread where Uli Behringer floated the idea to enter the Eurorack market and if he did what would people like.

Many people said they would like for Behringer to make inexpensive powered cases of some kind

We are not ignorant, we know there are DIY solutions, we have all heard about eBay, what we would like is an inexpensive way to dip our toes in the water so to speak.

Apparently that makes me a cheapskate asshole according to certain people on this thread, oh well
Old 15th April 2018
  #178
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Hello everyone,

as you are aware, many of our synthesizers such as Model D, Neutron, Pro-1 etc. have been designed to be used as standalone instruments but also to fit the hugely popular Eurorack format.

Many of you have now requested for us to build individual Eurorack modules, powered Eurorack cases and especially bring back some of the legacy modular systems.

At the same time we also thought about inviting all designers and engineers among you to participate in this initiative.

The goal would be to build a wide range of modules and - as usual - at very affordable prices (target prices US$ 49-99) which would allow us to open this market and get as many people as possible into synths and making music.

Our synth teams are very excited about this potential direction and would love to hear your opinion.

Are you interested in Eurorack systems?
What modules would you like us to make?
What legacy modular systems would you like us to make?
What accessories do you require?

Thank you :-)

Uli
I think it would be awesome to see some great effects modules, unique sequencers, utilities, and inexpensive standard modules (VCO, ADSR, LFO, etc). Beyond all of that, affordable cases/power would be the biggest game-changer for so many people. My personal wish list would include any and all West Coast/Buchla modules and gear. An affordable Music Easel clone easily my #1 .
Old 15th April 2018
  #179
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Like some other users, I never recommend buying a complete synth voice for a first time buyer.
It is a waste of money compared to buying the many affordable mono synths.
The magic of Eurorack is in the innovation and esoteric.
Sure, but one of the voices started of in the system (pittsburgh 10+) Ive enjoyed playing with the more “out there” sounds with the softube modular and its expansions but lets face it us noobs are hardly likely to fork out for a Buchla 259e... even a used Korgasmatron II is the price of a mono.

Anyway not complaining or anything, Id just like a cheap, large, case to begin with...dunno why that tweaked fiddys filter cut off. Then plenty of modules to pair up with a few behri monos.
Old 15th April 2018
  #180
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandmonkey View Post
if not, what's the best approach? get a semi-modular and add to
it?
That's probably the cheapest way to instant gratification, and also a less steep learning curve.
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