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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 15th April 2018
  #121
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Zen MD's Avatar
 

so happy i put off getting into euro until behringer announced this yesssss
Old 15th April 2018
  #122
Lives for gear
I’d love to see affordable Buchla inspired modules. I also like what Make Noise does, something similar but affordable would be nice to have.
Old 15th April 2018
  #123
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
I wonder if the euro-rack market is big enough to go into mass production.
Old 15th April 2018
  #124
Quote:
Originally Posted by big ol shea View Post
so happy i put off getting into euro until behringer announced this
If it's just a question of cheap access, maybe modular isn't for you?
Old 15th April 2018
  #125
Gear Maniac
 
Summer Of Nebula's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Our team has done renderings of potential Eurorack modules related to the legacy 100M system.

We believe we could produce them for around US$ 100 each, of course provided there is enough interest.

Some of you have rightfully pointed out that this is not a commercially viable market segment for any large manufacturer.
However since synthesizers are a huge passion of mine, this is a wonderful and personal journey to embark on projects that hopefully deliver some customer happiness and get more people into synths.

Uli
I'd buy all of them. Twice =)

I love the sound of the legacy roland systems and was planning on getting a new system 500. That plan is on hold now because of this thread.

Would be more than awesome!
Old 15th April 2018
  #126
Here for the gear
 
RADIY's Avatar
Wow, awesome news!

I would like to see clones of original 200-series Buchla modules in eurorack format. For example, there are a lot of 259-inspired oscillators, but not a single module based on the 258 dual oscillator(except the DIY version). And after Sputnik Modular gone out of business this niche of the affordable west coast modules remain empty.

And of course, we all are waiting for the Behringer 2600!
Old 15th April 2018
  #127
Gear Maniac
 

I’m a Euro user and totally think there *is* an element of the Model Railway enthusiast. If you don’t set limits and follow every amazing new module, a lot of other gear ends up on EBay and you’ve got catching up to do reading and patching (at least, this is my experience). As it is I’m sticking with my Mantis (and small separate drum case) and buying semi modular from here on in, leaving my Euro Oscs and filters (and Maths and fx)for ‘spice.’ That said...

I’ve noticed it’s not really cheap to get drums and sequencing happening in Euro.
There could always be more Eurorack Fx processors.
Euro modules that incorporate extra VCAs, mults, attenuators are a dream. Filters with extra inputs to act as a 2 in mixer are useful. Dual modules are useful. When you throw utilities in addition to the ‘boring’ modules they save a lot of space and heartache.

I always thought it would be nice of some of these semi modular mfrs could do an expander unit, like pedal format for some of their voices. Some companies seem to be doing that. Take some of the agony out of choice but keep some flexibility...
Old 15th April 2018
  #128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post

Equally we believe that offering complete and fully assembled Eurorack systems as well as individual modules is the way to go as it allows for maximum flexibility.

Uli
I would not be very sure about this, ... maybe I'm wrong
I repeat, time is gold and the necessities of life limit many things.
The synthesizers should facilitate working time, space and speed... and not the flexibility
And those who do it, will be the beneficiaries !
Old 15th April 2018
  #129
Gear Maniac
 

Modular is expensiiiive. Probably not if you’re doing music commercially... but most people are graduating from the V Collection or kept their D50 and Microkorg from band practice. Way better than where it was but before Behringer started making I had assumed one day Korg would entreat us to a Monoribe with patch points and a Perspex face plate...

I have what is regarded as a ‘small system,’ and I’m ever so slightly embarrassed at what I paid for it. As much as a decent polysynth and a few desktop monos for sure...I love it though, plugging in some SQ1s and just tweaking, I actually get a passage of music and noise instead of a beautifully polished 30 sec loop like I do in the computer.
Old 15th April 2018
  #130
Gear Addict
 
Uli Behringer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last System View Post
I would not be very sure about this, ... maybe I'm wrong
I repeat, time is gold and the necessities of life limit many things.
The synthesizers should facilitate working time, space and speed... and not the flexibility
And those who do it, will be the beneficiaries !
Please allow me to respond as your comment strikes a chord.

First of all I fully agree that time is our most valuable currency, since we can't replenish it and one day we will run out of it. So why not focus on things that make us happy?

I have learned that people have many different reasons to enjoy synthesizers. While you might be looking for an efficient workflow where storing/recalling patches is vital for you, others take great pleasure in the journey of discovering unique sounds that they know they can't store nor recall.
It's the experience of enjoying a sound you know you cannot replicate again. Isn't this the beauty of modular or experimental synthesis?

I believe life is about the journey and not only achieving a set goal.

Uli
Old 15th April 2018
  #131
Here for the gear
 

A marriage made in heaven

This is amazing news (as usual, Uli). Thanks for getting deeper into the Eurorack arena. Much, much appreciated.

VINTAGE SYSTEMS TO BRING TO LIFE:

The classic East Coast and West Coast legendary systems:

- Moog (the Keith Emerson modular set + duophonic keyboard, it retails for 150K$, plus all other systems: 55, 35, 15)
- Buchla
- Serge

ORIGINAL MODULES TO DEVELOP


- a series of chainable mixer modules with amazing audio performance (like Frap Tool's or Addac's) and VC control over parameters.

- a flexible, playable + expandable and chainable analog sequencer (inspired by moog and klaus schulze) to get multi track sequencing with real time controls (like Koma's) and with poliphony.

LICENSES

I would also suggest to put under contract and license modules of geniuseslike that Andrew from Non Linear Circuits.
Old 15th April 2018
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I'm contantly miffed that people say cases are expensive, there are cheap cases and expensive ones like in any area of life. Those who complain cases are expensive please put down what you want and a cost I'm genounely interested in what you think a cheap case is..
50 or lower would be a start for a plain case .
The wood costs nothing.
The wood most case makers use anyway,not talking about the fancy ones.

Also,I,personally ,would looove a plastic light case .
Like mantis ,but cheaper.
A line of 3u cheap cases that can be cascaded .
Oh ,I'm drooling .
Old 15th April 2018
  #133
Gear Head
 

That is awesome!

I personally think one of the biggest money drains in Eurorack is the "boring stuff." Cases, mults, attenuverters, and to a certain extent also LFOs, Envelopes and VCAs.

If you can produce an 84HP powered case under 80 euros, maybe some multi-function utility modules (like having multiple LFOs with attenuverters on them in a small module, VCA with built in envelope..) I'd probably buy 'em all (:
Old 15th April 2018
  #134
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelis Da View Post
50 or lower would be a start for a plain case .
The wood costs nothing.
Old 15th April 2018
  #135
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The perfect time to make this move

Like the possible thousands of other people out there, I have always wanted to get into modular synths however due to the intimidating price tag that comes with having to purchase a basic set up i have admired it from a far, I really hope Behringer can crack onto this market because there is money to be made and so many people like me who are on the fence of going modular, I am extremely looking forward to see the developments on this and will defiantly make my way into modular territory once they hit the shelves.

my only other input is for Behringer to build cases and power options for us noobs too!
Old 15th April 2018
  #136
Here for the gear
 

Advanced sequencers. These are often very expensive, there are already affordable filters and oscillators. If you manage to produce affordable xox-style sequencers I think you have a winner!
Old 15th April 2018
  #137
Gear Maniac
Well Uli, as you know, your principal competitor in the 'value for money' EuroModular game is Dieter Doepfer. Doepfer are not perceived as having the most glamorous modules, but they are reliable workhorses and do what they do well - and usually priced below similar modules from the other major players in the field. Yes, I'm sure that Behringer could offer the same type of modules at a cheaper price, but I would echo (ha!) what others have been saying - CV controlled effects modules and elegant angled desktop style cases with in built PSU. I'd also recommend a stream-lined mini SD card based 6 voice sample player at a reasonable $$ with an additional module that can address individual sample triggering and audio outs. Maybe Euromodule versions of the Neutron VCF (a dual filter) and BBD delay is a good place to start?
Old 15th April 2018
  #138
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Our team has done renderings of potential Eurorack modules related to the legacy 100M system.

We believe we could produce them for around US$ 100 each, of course provided there is enough interest.

Some of you have rightfully pointed out that this is not a commercially viable market segment for any large manufacturer.
However since synthesizers are a huge passion of mine, this is a wonderful and personal journey to embark on projects that hopefully deliver some customer happiness and get more people into synths.

Uli
Ha, you are really cheeking Roland with this! I think a mini System 100m would sell like hot cakes. Eurorack is a big can of worms, and I'm not really a fan. Terrible minijacks, cramped weird interfaces and power supply anomalies. Ugh! However, something like this is well-defined and works well as a system. Attenuators on all the inputs. Sequencers. Someone could use this standalone or integrated with their crazy Eurorack monster.

The Roland badged Malekko system is nearly 2000 pounds here. That's up there with the crazy vintage prices. It's like they don't want to produce synths for people. They are their own worst enemy. They could have cranked these out like Korg have done with the KARPs and MS20s.

Two oscillators, two filters, two VCAs, two envelopes, two LFOs, a phaser and a delay.



At $100 a module plus the desktop case with power - $800 ? You could have another Boog on your hands!
Old 15th April 2018
  #139
Here for the gear
 

As others pointed out there are A LOT of clones in eurorack market.
Buchla clones though, are no where to be found - Make Noise make some inspired modules with very expensive prices tags on them and more recently Catalyst Audio have announced some clones but with even a bigger price point than MN.
If you guys will make some Buchla clones or even a Music easel clone people will go absolutely mental (in a good way).
Old 15th April 2018
  #140
Here for the gear
 

I totally second this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2046 View Post
1-Cases /PSUs
2-An audio interface with tons of CV (4 ins/ 8 outs or more), so we can control the modular from the DAW (like expert sleepers modules)
And this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonakinesis View Post
Hello. Also a robust MIDI to CV converter. By Robust, I mean having 8 CV outputs or more, for 8 or more MIDI CCs to be routed to.
Maybe even both combined into one module
And preferrably such that - like the D and the Neutron- they can even be used as dektop devices.
Old 15th April 2018
  #141
Here for the gear
 

I would love to see some of the more rare and obscure vintage modules. ARP 2500 1050 Mix-Sequencer module and maybe a matrix switching patchbay. MOOG 914 fixed filter bank.

And a good audio/CV dual mixer, attenuverter, voltage offset module.
Old 15th April 2018
  #142
Here for the gear
 

Cracking the “case”

First barrier to entry = $300 eurorack case and power

Solution = cheaper LEGO like case for individual modules in standard hp sizes.

First LEGO case contains Behringer power source. Next LEGO case snaps to first module to draw power. User buys size of LEGO case to fit new Eurorack module. Example, buy 2hp LEGO case for Pico DSP module, stick into 2hp LEGO case, then snap to First Power module. Newbie is ready to go. As you add more LEGO cases, a Skiff is formed. [power][2hp][12hp][4hp][2hp] Additional snap cases draw power from first module as a chain. [power][12hp][4hp][2hp][2hp]

Make the LEGO case dimensions similar to Behringer Neutron so combined LEGO case of an hp length is a standalone extension or complementary rack for it.

Advantages:
1) low cost of entry
2) buy as much case real estate as you need. Expands as you add. Maximum length determined by first power module.
3) makes re-ordering modules a “snap”
4) Owners can easily test new modules without dismantling existing fully stuffed rack. Save youtubers like DivKid and Molten Music from their boxes of eurorack modules they haven’t installed yet. As long as they have the correct hp length snap case, they can just pop their new module in and snap it to the power source module.
5) friends can borrow and swap modules with each other even at a gig.
6) As close to a real world Modulargrid.com as we can imagine
7) I can add reverb to my ordered Neutron with only two LEGO case modules
8) stand-alone cases for eurorack modules have existed (eg Roland Aria modules like Demora were in desktop standalone cases) but did not snap together to form a skiff. So these modules feel like an alien afterthought sitting besides your eurorack case. But they did prove standalone cases were viable. Snap together cases would feel more at home as they combine to make skiffs that are eurorack standard.
9) Eurorack users can take modules out of snap cases and put them into expensive racks once they commit to a module order. So snap cases do not compete with expensive rack but compliment them. Enable user to ramp up to expensive permanent rigs.
Old 15th April 2018
  #143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Please allow me to respond as your comment strikes a chord.

First of all I fully agree that time is our most valuable currency, since we can't replenish it and one day we will run out of it. So why not focus on things that make us happy?

I have learned that people have many different reasons to enjoy synthesizers. While you might be looking for an efficient workflow where storing/recalling patches is vital for you, others take great pleasure in the journey of discovering unique sounds that they know they can't store nor recall.
It's the experience of enjoying a sound you know you cannot replicate again. Isn't this the beauty of modular or experimental synthesis?

I believe life is about the journey and not only achieving a set goal.

Uli
Surely it is true what you say Uli.

But also it will be, to pilot an airplane; ... to learn 5 languages, ... to travel by the world, etc ...
Maybe, To learning to play a melody from Jarre or Vangelis, it excites me more than creating a sound, for example.

I hope that commercially it is not a ruin for you and we are all benefited from it, of course !
Old 15th April 2018
  #144
Lives for gear
 
Mr Knoch's Avatar
@Uli Behringer
Dear Uli, Please get a couple of the vintage poly remakes done before your fellows get distracted with more projects. I have nothing against Eurorack but I don't want to pass away before I have a chance to buy your polys.
Don't let that be me.

Old 15th April 2018
  #145
Here for the gear
 

Cheap midi AND Audio over usb in/out module to connect to computer. Expert Sleeper 8 is $500. Ouch.
Old 15th April 2018
  #146
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
so what about guitar cases, road cases, desks to put gear on, don't see people whinging about the cost of those..?
those examples are not a barrier to entry. If I wanted to take up guitar I could just go buy a guitar and start making music, I don't need to buy a case that costs hundreds of dollars before I even buy a guitar. As far as desks and tables to sit gear on you can spend as much or as little as you want. When most people start buying Synths or gear they just use a table or desk they already have.

Road cases are not needed when you are just getting into guitar, or synths etc. You don't need those unless you are gigging, meaning you are established with gear already and making money from said gear
Quote:

your eurocase economics is skewed for some reason. The case is an integral part of the instrument you are building, it has to be powered correctly and not noisy or underpowered, the case is as important as the modules, maybe more so.
My eurocaae economics are just that mine, they are not skewed. My personal economics states that I will never spend hundreds of dollars on a box with a power supply, a view shared by many people as expressed on this thread. It's not affordability it's a value proposition.

I could have easily put a few bucks together and purchased a Moog Model D Reissue also, but if I was going to spend thousands on my music , there is a whole host of cool things I would rather have. Now I own a Behringer Model D I got for $300

That doesn't make me a tight ass, just as people who have a different view of Modular Cases than I do or who purchased a Moog Reissue are not reckless spenders.

Maybe Uli and his company can come up with a nice large case for less than $100, if so I'll buy it, if not I won't.
Old 15th April 2018
  #147
Here for the gear
 

Apparently you can’t have enough vcas. Behringer 8 vca module.

Buffered multiples 1in eight out.

Additional bonus, Behringer makes 8 voice polyphony affordable.
Old 15th April 2018
  #148
It's remarkable how many posters are posting @Gearslutz for the first time in this thread. Or people with one or two past posts.
Old 15th April 2018
  #149
Here for the gear
 

Parts of Existing Behringer synths in modular form:

1) Behringer D Boog filter
2) Boog oscillators (Not individually patchable in the D)
3) Effects from DeepMind
4) Juno like filter from DeepMind

Advantage: new format for existing Behringer parts. Capitalize from engineering that you’ve already done but add cv gate options for eurorack.
Old 15th April 2018
  #150
Gear Head
 
weird_oscillator's Avatar
 

If they make it, I will buy it. Great to make modular more affordable for everyone.
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