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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 15th April 2018
  #61
Here for the gear
 

Eurorack, semi-modulars & samplers

Hello. Also a robust MIDI to CV converter. By Robust, I mean having 8 CV outputs or more, for 8 or more MIDI CCs to be routed to.
I love the Electrocomp EML-101. To my knowledge no one has tried to bring this great synth back. Please consider that, or maybe at least it's oscillators and filters in a Eurorack format.
Although I have Kontakt and a few other soft samplers, I honestly miss the old hardware samplers. If a sampler like the Prophet 3000 could be brought back to life with a lot more RAM and HD memory, that would be fantastic.

Thanks, Marc
Old 15th April 2018
  #62
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re5etuk's Avatar
I'd like a souped up Nord modular eurorack , easy cpu and ram upgrades,
Compatible with Nord g1,g2 patches
Red.

As mentioned before though , I'd prefer new things or cheaper modules of synths that are old / too expensive to buy 2nd hand rather than duplicates of small boutique company products
Old 15th April 2018
  #63
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I'm contantly miffed that people say cases are expensive, there are cheap cases and expensive ones like in any area of life. Those who complain cases are expensive please put down what you want and a cost I'm genounely interested in what you think a cheap case is..
What do you think a cheap case is?

To me the cases I have seen are just wood and/or metal boxes that cost cost no more than $10 to produce, plywood and sheet metal just doesn't cost that much

Power supplies are also way over priced for what they actually are. Look at the power supplies in tower PC's, they are much higher wattage than those for a standard modular case and can drive many components without noise and they cost far less $100 many less than $50

The "Happy Ending" kit costs $150 why? The new Arturia RackBrute 6U case is $359 why?

The Happy Ending kit should cost no more than $50, the Rackbrute no more than $100
Old 15th April 2018
  #64
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grasspike's Avatar
to the powers that be at Behringer reading this thread, might I suggest making powred Skiffs out of metal that would fit into a standard 19" rack. If they could do that, they could then be mounted into.

The skiff that the Model D ships in, is very nice and high quality make those longer and have the ability to put rack ears on them and put a power supply in them.

If they are rack mountable they could be put in heavy duty road cases for the people that want to do that or be mounted in desktop or studio racks for people like me that won't gig with them
Old 15th April 2018
  #65
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
What do you think a cheap case is?

To me the cases I have seen are just wood and/or metal boxes that cost cost no more than $10 to produce, plywood and sheet metal just doesn't cost that much

Power supplies are also way over priced for what they actually are. Look at the power supplies in tower PC's, they are much higher wattage than those for a standard modular case and can drive many components without noise and they cost far less $100 many less than $50

The "Happy Ending" kit costs $150 why? The new Arturia RackBrute 6U case is $359 why?

The Happy Ending kit should cost no more than $50, the Rackbrute no more than $100
so build your own then, go buy some plywood for $10 and rails and power and do it yourself for nothing if you think it's so cheap..

should people make cases and sell them for less than the materials...seriously..? people have to make a living you know.

man there are some tight arses on here..

You can buy a case for cheaper than you can buy most modules, I don't see any problems with the costs of cases. people have to put time and effort into building and some just want the product for less than all this cost...baffling.
Old 15th April 2018
  #66
Here for the gear
 

Uli, I have been interested in eurorack modules. But they always scared me by the price/feedback ratio. I have a few grand $ aside and it has always been hard to evaluate what i can get with my 2k dollars. If you start producing modules of the same quality of Model D (which I have), i can assure you that you will get all my money...
Old 15th April 2018
  #67
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

Old 15th April 2018
  #68
Here for the gear
 

I feel like the "innovative" part of the market is well covered by the niche makers, so perhaps modularise all the components of your recent synths.

Modiles of: the model D Oscillator, the Ladder Filter, the CP3 mixer, the Envelope, etc.
Then modules of the Neutron Dual Oscillator, The Neutron Envelope,The BBD, the Distortion, etc.
then the Bro1 bits and pieces.

This would present a coherent and integrated product line, .. So that if a user wants (for example) a 4 Oscillator Neutron, they can buy a Neutron (€299) and the additional DualOsc module (€ 49-99) , or they could buy an additional Moffat Filter, or an additional Ladder Filter

other than all that - I would like a robust airline hand-luggage size case with power. I'm currently making one and really I wish I'd made 4 of them.
Old 15th April 2018
  #69
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Uli Behringer's Avatar
 

Our team has done renderings of potential Eurorack modules related to the legacy 100M system.

We believe we could produce them for around US$ 100 each, of course provided there is enough interest.

Some of you have rightfully pointed out that this is not a commercially viable market segment for any large manufacturer.
However since synthesizers are a huge passion of mine, this is a wonderful and personal journey to embark on projects that hopefully deliver some customer happiness and get more people into synths.

Uli
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Eurorack Modular-110.jpg   Behringer Eurorack Modular-140.jpg   Behringer Eurorack Modular-182.jpg   Behringer Eurorack Modular-rack.jpg  
Old 15th April 2018
  #70
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
If you are going to enter this market, make stuff that's different or hasn't been cloned yet, ^ those 100M are nice ^ there is already a saturated eurorack market of existing clones. My idea would be to make full systems like Doepfer did and sell them as full systems and then let people pull them apart or add Model D's, Neutrons to them, if Behringer stuck to full systems and a strong series of euro effects like quality reverbs and delays etc.

A 6U Behringer system all inclusive would be nice, a full mono synth with 2 osc, effects and al the rest would be better than starting off doing individual modules imo.
Old 15th April 2018
  #71
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
so build your own then, go buy some plywood for $10 and rails and power and do it yourself for nothing if you think it's so cheap..

should people make cases and sell them for less than the materials...seriously..? people have to make a living you know.

man there are some tight arses on here..

You can buy a case for cheaper than you can buy most modules, I don't see any problems with the costs of cases. people have to put time and effort into building and some just want the product for less than all this cost...baffling.
There are plenty of modules on the market that cost less than the $150 Happy Ending Case which is about as cheap and bare bones as you can get

The modules I want are various filters , ADSR, Mults, VCA and LFOs all of which can be had for $150 or less and I would happily buy the Behringer ones for $50 as Uli talked about

Filter modules from the D, Neutron, and Pro-1 at $50 are a no brainier
Old 15th April 2018
  #72
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Uli Behringer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
If you are going to enter this market, make stuff that's different or hasn't been cloned yet, ^ those 100M are nice ^ there is already a saturated eurorack market of existing clones. My idea would be to make full systems like Doepfer did and sell them as full systems and then let people pull them apart or add Model D's, Neutrons to them, if Behringer stuck to full systems and a strong series of euro effects like quality reverbs and delays etc.

A 6U Behringer system all inclusive would be nice, a full mono synth with 2 osc, effects and al the rest would be better than starting off doing individual modules imo.
Thanks for the feedback Fiddlestickz,

So far we have learned that people like to be able to obtain legacy systems at very affordable prices as well as new and innovative products. As you are aware this is exactly in line with our vision for our standalone synths.

Equally we believe that offering complete and fully assembled Eurorack systems as well as individual modules is the way to go as it allows for maximum flexibility. In fact one of the renderings contains a small system.

As always we appreciate your input.

Uli

Last edited by Uli Behringer; 15th April 2018 at 04:08 AM..
Old 15th April 2018
  #73
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Our team has done renderings of potential Eurorack modules related to the legacy 100M system.

We believe we could produce them for around US$ 100 each, of course provided there is enough interest.

Some of you have rightfully pointed out that this is not a commercially viable market segment for any large manufacturer.
However since synthesizers are a huge passion of mine, this is a wonderful and personal journey to embark on projects that hopefully deliver some customer happiness and get more people into synths.

Uli
I think the most commercial would still be moog modular, but may also be deceiving.
rolang currently requires 350.- for the not so popular maleko modules that are 100.- certainly a fight announcement.
if roland then is this stupid rohm vca/ota elementary. shapes the sound strongly
Old 15th April 2018
  #74
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Don't listen to him, Uli. Make the System-100 modules. That's exactly what I'd be interested in.
Old 15th April 2018
  #75
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
What do you think a cheap case is?

To me the cases I have seen are just wood and/or metal boxes that cost cost no more than $10 to produce, plywood and sheet metal just doesn't cost that much

Power supplies are also way over priced for what they actually are. Look at the power supplies in tower PC's, they are much higher wattage than those for a standard modular case and can drive many components without noise and they cost far less $100 many less than $50

The "Happy Ending" kit costs $150 why? The new Arturia RackBrute 6U case is $359 why?

The Happy Ending kit should cost no more than $50, the Rackbrute no more than $100
Many people make their own eurorack cases by buying the raw materials. They may save a little money, but that is only after treating their own labor as free. Eurorack cases are not just a wood or metal box, there are also metal rails with nuts or metal strips, power distribution PCBs and power supplies. A power supply for analog audio circuits has different power requirements than a PC with respect to noise, etc.
Old 15th April 2018
  #76
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_M_R View Post
Many people make their own eurorack cases by buying the raw materials. They may save a little money, but that is only after treating their own labor as free. Eurorack cases are not just a wood or metal box, there are also metal rails with nuts or metal strips, power distribution PCBs and power supplies. A power supply for analog audio circuits has different power requirements than a PC with respect to noise, etc.
exactly, and don't forget all the keyed headers and ribbons cable etc, it's all got to work and be safe/earthed, people are crazy to think these things are just a box with some glue and a PC power supply..
Old 15th April 2018
  #77
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
Don't listen to him, Uli. Make the System-100 modules. That's exactly what I'd be interested in.
do not get it wrong .. that's not what I really want, maybe just what sells best. I can not really judge the Euro Market in terms of volume. according to superbooth huge, but there are many oneman shows ..
Roland is really the problem with their custom chips, without it sounds good similar but never exactly the same. Of course, this can be solved with a noodle single transistor.



100m is certainly exciting, there have been a few modules, even prototypes that have never appeared


110 VCO/VCF/VCA
112 Dual VCO
121 Dual VCF
130 Dual VCA
131 Output Mixer / Tuning Oscillator / Headphone Amp
132 Dual CV / Audio Mixer & Voltage Processor
140 Dual EG & LFO
150 Ring Mod / Noise / S&H / LFO
165 Dual Portamento Controller
172 Phase Shifter / Audio Delay / Gate Delay (with LFO)
173 Signal Gate & Multiple Jacks
174 Parametric EQ
180 32-key Controller Keyboard
181 49-key Controller Keyboard
182 Analog Sequencer
184 49-key 4-note Polyphonic Keyboard
190 Three-Module Rack
191-J Five-Module Rack

Prototype-only modules:

111 VCO / VCF
120 VCF / VCA
141 Dual Envelope / Gate Delay / Inverter-Adder
160 Computer Interface
170 Pitch to Voltage converter / Envelope Follower / Amp
Old 15th April 2018
  #78
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
exactly, and don't forget all the keyed headers and ribbons cable etc, it's all got to work and be safe/earthed, people are crazy to think these things are just a box with some glue and a PC power supply..
People said that it was crazy talk to think a Model D clone could be made for $300 yet here we are

And they are just a box with a power supply, one simpler and with less power than those used in PC's which also have cables, ribbons, and have to be grounded and safe
Old 15th April 2018
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
so build your own then, go buy some plywood for $10 and rails and power and do it yourself for nothing if you think it's so cheap..

should people make cases and sell them for less than the materials...seriously..? people have to make a living you know.

man there are some tight arses on here..

You can buy a case for cheaper than you can buy most modules, I don't see any problems with the costs of cases. people have to put time and effort into building and some just want the product for less than all this cost...baffling.
Yeah $10 of plywood, free rails, and power supplies found at the side of the road..youre right, daft of me to think $700 is a bit expensive for the case I want...next we’ll be wanting full analogue monos for $299...crazee


If Behringer can put out cases half the price of whats out there you should be applauding it rather than calling folks tight arses
Old 15th April 2018
  #80
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_M_R View Post
Many people make their own eurorack cases by buying the raw materials. They may save a little money, but that is only after treating their own labor as free. Eurorack cases are not just a wood or metal box, there are also metal rails with nuts or metal strips, power distribution PCBs and power supplies. A power supply for analog audio circuits has different power requirements than a PC with respect to noise, etc.
I'm not talking about making my own, I'm talking about Behringer making them in their own brand new state of the art factory, which is what this thread is really all about.

Many, many people won't venture into modular land because the cases are outrageously priced to them, the value of the case relative to the price being asked is just not there, so we stay away.

For others the draw of modular outweighs the costs and as such the value of the case relative to the price is there. There are not many of these people which is why it's currently a niche market

If I could get an inexpensive case, with a power supply, drop my Behringer D into it and add some inexpensive modules, I would be very interested in exploring modular land, until that day comes, I will happily spend my money on other things

I am sure many other people would as well
Old 15th April 2018
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_M_R View Post
Many people make their own eurorack cases by buying the raw materials. They may save a little money, but that is only after treating their own labor as free. Eurorack cases are not just a wood or metal box, there are also metal rails with nuts or metal strips, power distribution PCBs and power supplies. A power supply for analog audio circuits has different power requirements than a PC with respect to noise, etc.
Yup...the rails Id need come to around $180...then power supplies another couple of hundred, $10 plywood and barely enough time to turn on a synth let alone make a case.

I get folks have to make a living...cool, but if behringer can give me a cheaper product then Ill take it.
Old 15th April 2018
  #82
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Doepfer low cost cases are perfectly priced and no where near $700.
Old 15th April 2018
  #83
Here for the gear
solid basic modules.

vco
vcf
vca
envelopes
lfos
sequencer
dsp
utility modules like voltage offsets, slew, mixers

If you did these basics in the hopeful 50-100 range I would buy them.

what I would not want to see is another $600 complex oscillator or a quad vca matrix for $350
Old 15th April 2018
  #84
Gear Head
 
pre55ure's Avatar
 

You guys are aware that Roland/Malekko already have a line of modules that replicate the Roland 100 modular system? Built and designed by Malekko and with Rolands original schematics and blessing.

Malekko has been building eurorack stuff since way before it got popular.

If Behringer wants to make cool new innovative products - great!

But undercutting other manufacturers and selling essentially the same product is just rather repugnant.
Old 15th April 2018
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Doepfer low cost cases are perfectly priced and no where near $700.
Well, just spitballing Id want more than say 3x84, especially housing 3 behiringer monos, and the doepfer 252hp is $460, the A100P9 is around $675...the 3x104s I looked it were around $700...havent seen a doepfer case that size.

Youre into modular, not all of us are as into it...just to get a case to house 3 monos then add some interesting modules adds up if the case starts at twice the price of the monos. Not wanting to get into a back and forth but if behri do it cheaper its all good...and for those just wanting to try it its kinda hard spending a few hundred on an empty case that makes no noise to begin with
Old 15th April 2018
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre55ure View Post
You guys are aware that Roland/Malekko already have a line of modules that replicate the Roland 100 modular system? Built and designed by Malekko and with Rolands original schematics and blessing.

Malekko has been building eurorack stuff since way before it got popular.

If Behringer wants to make cool new innovative products - great!

But undercutting other manufacturers and selling essentially the same product is just rather repugnant.
We are past this and will now fight in packs over chicken bones
Old 15th April 2018
  #87
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pre55ure View Post
You guys are aware that Roland/Malekko already have a line of modules that replicate the Roland 100 modular system? Built and designed by Malekko and with Rolands original schematics and blessing.

Malekko has been building eurorack stuff since way before it got popular.

If Behringer wants to make cool new innovative products - great!

But undercutting other manufacturers and selling essentially the same product is just rather repugnant.
the things of maleko are allegedly not the yellow of the egg, the modules are bad on each other adjusted, something else occurs when mixing different manufacturers.
optically, they are 100m, but if that's true inside, I do not know.

to the housing discussion, there are certainly good margins to achieve, even doepfer lowcost has its price.
I want a 36hp housing for my vince clarke module .. lol .. I must probably build myself
Old 15th April 2018
  #88
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@Uli Behringer

I would be interested in a Quad Envelope module.
Apologies if this has already been suggested.
Thanks
Old 15th April 2018
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
Yes it is, but honestly it looks like it should cost $50 and something Behringer could sell for $39.99

It's a power supply and a simple metal ring

I for one have come so close to enter Eurorack land many times , but think the cost of Skiffs or things like the Happy Ending is just plain highway robbery so I dont.

Just yesterday I was looking at the Make Noise powered skiff to drop a Model D into and getting a few other modules, just couldn't drop the cash on something that costs $250 but should cost far less than $100
I'm probably in the same boat as you, a potential Eurorack customer. I have 4 or 5 setups of interesting looking modules on modulargrid - but I know in reality I'd have to pad that out with various utility modules [and already the projected cost for each setup is like $4500]

I'll have 14HP free when I get around to mounting my Model D so I've been thinking about what to put in there..

The happy ending kit.. I don't like losing the 1HP or so for the PSU switch :P It is something that should be cheaper.. especially if you plan out a bunch of rows

Initially thinking about Eurorack I thought I'd just hotwire a PC PSU and power the whole lot, although supposedly this isn't done as Eurorack PSUs are linear. I still can't see it being that expensive to produce basic stuff like this, though.

If Behringer modules were available at those prices, and decent (19") mounting kits too.. then I would likely take the plunge and put something together. If I had a system then I would also be adding on some various interesting boutique modules that exist in the market today.. so I think it'd be a win win.

There's no point exactly cloning preexisting in-production modules at a lower price point (eg. Mutable or Radikal stuff) - the Eurorack market is probably more delicate with lots of small companies. But you could use the general idea behind the module as a jumping off point to make something innovative.. as well as having the work behind the classic synth reissues spawn off some interesting modules.

I have also read maybe 10 or 20 times here of people's wish for a cheaper version of the Waldorf KB37..
Old 15th April 2018
  #90
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Our team has done renderings of potential Eurorack modules related to the legacy 100M system.

We believe we could produce them for around US$ 100 each, of course provided there is enough interest.
SOLD
yes great idea

...among other things I am tired of paying 300$ for an osc...

...but on the other side I agree the market is not big.... to tell you the truth, I got into modulars because there wasn't many new analog synths available back then (2009) but with the forthcoming supply of good and affordable analogs synths, why bother

I still love patching and all, but I am more excited at getting great sounding new synths that I can afford at the moment. I am not interested in paying 800$ of modules for half a synth voice anymore.... I have a nice system and won't go bigger, but at 150$ for a nice sounding module I might try it a few.
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