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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 7th January 2019
  #841
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ArtFluids's Avatar
I would like to see Behringer make a keyboard for modular systems.
Like a big version of the KeyStep. Put in a simple SH-101 style sequencer like the KeyStep (that you can use with an external clock/triggers from your system if you like).
MIDI and CV outputs. Arpeggiator.

Think just like a KeyStep with full-size keys and more octaves (and actual wheels).
Perhaps there could be a whole bank of knobs connected to attenuaters/attenuverters, and maybe a couple CV mixers.
So it would be the ultimate keyboard for a modular system AND a selection of utilities.

It's not a MIDI controller, it's a CV controller.
Old 8th January 2019
  #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post
I'm no expert ... but ...
It would be perfectly possible for Behringer/ Roland to say in the designs stage : "The Roland System 100m 110 module measured 230mm(H) by 104mm(W) so let's give this new replica a similar UI-surface area"
I think Roland goes for Kawaii looking at these modules and the boutiques.

The s500 modules with knobs are fine though imo
Old 9th January 2019
  #843
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Basic modules and a case would be nice for modular beginners like me. But Behringer, please dont clone, create your own sound.
Old 9th January 2019
  #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya_snowy View Post
Basic modules and a case would be nice for modular beginners like me. But Behringer, please dont clone, create your own sound.
expert statement ... system 100m is very very basic
think you can not find anything easier ..
By the way, the vco, s of doepfer are based on the system 100m
Old 9th January 2019
  #845
Lot's of different VCOs in the Doepfer line up.
The original Doepfer 110 VCO is just a standard analog VCO. Nothing Roland about it, other than they are both analog VCOs.
At the time (mid-90's) I had both - a large 100M system and a linked Doepfer system including 110 VCOs.
Old 9th January 2019
  #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Lot's of different VCOs in the Doepfer line up.
The original Doepfer 110 VCO is just a standard analog VCO. Nothing Roland about it, other than they are both analog VCOs.
At the time (mid-90's) I had both - a large 100M system and a linked Doepfer system including 110 VCOs.
compare both, the core is the same ...

A-110 Service Manual

http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufa...s/s100m02b.jpg

that does not mean that the sound is the same
Old 9th January 2019
  #847
How many different ways can you design a discrete analog oscillator?
Two ways?
So it's not surprising many are similar or the same design.
Old 9th January 2019
  #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
expert statement ... system 100m is very very basic
think you can not find anything easier ..
By the way, the vco, s of doepfer are based on the system 100m
It was not a statement it was a wish) I will glad to buy any modules produced by Behringer no matter cloned or not if price stays low
Old 9th January 2019
  #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
How many different ways can you design a discrete analog oscillator?
Two ways?
So it's not surprising many are similar or the same design.
a long time ago in a far far far away country i talked to dieter doepfer ( he was as usual on the white lab coat to recognize ) at the mmf .. if he says that himself .. there will be something to it ..

By the way, there are x other possibilities for a resonant circuit ..

look for example system 100 without m .. quite different ...

DIY Roland System 100 VCO - ua726
Old 9th January 2019
  #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya_snowy View Post
It was not a statement it was a wish) I will glad to buy any modules produced by Behringer no matter cloned or not if price stays low
sorry then I do not understand your wish, more than basic is difficult
Old 9th January 2019
  #851
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC8364R7 View Post
Even for me as a non-EE, thats quite an underestimation.
Saw core OSC or Tri core Osc.

Not talking about DCOs, Wavetables, Complex etc, etc.....
Not talking about design decisions like how many FM inputs, waveshaping, sync etc...
Old 10th January 2019
  #852
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Behringer let's get some audio demos when you show us these completed boards. I'm assuming there's nothing left to change from an engineering standpoint and the actual sound is finalized, right?
Give us a listen! Same goes for the Pro One.
Old 16th January 2019
  #853
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
The whole point? Hardly.

Further, eurorack is full of countless clones by numerous builders, from AJH to AMS to Buchla to Wasp filters to SEM filters to Roland filters and hordes of others.
Yes, it is full of clones. The sad part is that they have the financial backing to actually attempt to be creative and innovate but decide not to. Hopefully they will also come up with new things.
Old 20th January 2019
  #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
We have now completed the prototype of the first Module, the 110 VCO, VCF, VCA and there are 5 more in the immediate pipeline.

We're currently doing the testing and will hopefully be able to release them for production soon.

We're planning to launch close to 40 modules over the next 2 years at a suggested retail price between US$ 49 and 99 each.

Wouldn't it be great to see lots of people get into Eurorack and enjoy modular synthesis?

Fun stuff!

Uli

Hi, Uli,

I look forward to the day we will see on the market, Behringer modular systems, based on VCO 901 such as Model 10 or 3P.

I think it would be a real success on the market for synthesizers, and it will remove many producers who want a lot of money without offering high performance products.

Currently these systems are only available from MOS-LAB and SYNTH-WERK, but they are very expensive.

Can you offer us such modular systems, and if possible, when will this happen?

Please, you are the last hope we have !
Old 20th January 2019
  #855
Dotcom stuff is based around the IIIP schems isn't it? Their prices aren't bad at all, and tbh I think I'd rather have Moog-based modules in the big format.
Old 20th January 2019
  #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason moyer View Post
Dotcom stuff is based around the IIIP schems isn't it? Their prices aren't bad at all, and tbh I think I'd rather have Moog-based modules in the big format.
I do not know exactly if Dotcom systems are based on VCO 901 or 921 (VCO 921 I do not like very much, compared to VCO 901 which sounds very nice), but they are still expensive.

There is another price issue: if I want to buy a Dotcom system, being in Europe, it will increase the price very much due to import taxes.

I prefer the large format / 5U modules, because the logic of a button on a function is precisely the possibility to access the functions in real time in a pleasant way, a situation that changes badly with the appearance of smaller buttons and the loss of space between them and an example is the Roland SE-02 synthesizer that is highly criticized for the difficulty of using the interface.

Last edited by Zambeste; 21st January 2019 at 01:07 PM.. Reason: completition
Old 21st January 2019
  #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason moyer View Post
Dotcom stuff is based around the IIIP schems isn't it? Their prices aren't bad at all, and tbh I think I'd rather have Moog-based modules in the big format.
Same. That's why after going fully Euro, I'm rebuilding my Dot Com. You can get the same sound in Euro, but it doesn't quite have the same patching experience.
Old 21st January 2019
  #858
Agreed.
Old 21st January 2019
  #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post
Perhaps if Behringer brings out a $149 powered case we can reclaim some ergonomics into synthesis?
That's still too expensive. You're still thinking in terms of eurorack rip-off prices. This is really basic technology. Nobody outside the rich kids' modular niche is going to pay 150 bucks for a box with a PSU.
Old 21st January 2019
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebase DMX View Post
That's still too expensive. You're still thinking in terms of eurorack rip-off prices. This is really basic technology. Nobody outside the rich kids' modular niche is going to pay 150 bucks for a box with a PSU.
Hmm, I'm am exceptionally skint. I mean, I could explain - but you wouldn't believe me. I survive on fumes. The memory of fumes.
I am not in the rich kids modular niche.

My case is a Thon rack (£85) and a TipTop uZeus (£65)
That's £150, or $190 USD. I did it.

It was the absolute cheapest solution I could get. I did make myself a case prior to getting the Thon. My first case was made from reclaimed plywood and sat the uZeus on z-rails.

So I think my point stands that a $150 (£117) case/power combo would be 22% cheaper than the current cheapest option.
Old 21st January 2019
  #861
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Yeah around £100 is a more acceptable price for what this stuff really is.
Old 21st January 2019
  #862
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I dunno man. My brother is a set builder and electronics guy. He also builds and runs P.A systems, also he makes boutique audio stuff.
He said he'd make me a flight case and power supply in return for me doing some work for him.

Prepare to be bored into the ground by details

My bro told me how to price it up. First up I started pricing a case. Something better than my first weak ply box. So it needs 3 or 5mm laminated board, corners, handles, edging, etc. Nothing too fancy, just a flightcase.

The case
The laminated Ply alone is £45 from his industry supplier.
corners are cheaper, 8x of the crappest (square not sphere) corners = £4.56
4x butterfly catches = £9.76
Then we have the aluminium edging strip, to do a small case takes around 8 metres. it's £4.98 per metre. so that's around £40 on edging.
Now we have the lid -extrusions, the strip which makes the top lid seat on the body. the cheapest I found was £6.68
lets leave off glue, internal braces, etc.


for me to make a case = £45 + 4.56 + 9.76 + 40 + 6.68
That's £106 in parts without VAT (%20 = £136) or labour costs ... + £50 would be £186

Anyway. So that's obviously stupidly expensive to home-make one
We know that chinese manufacturing cuts those costs down by a LOT.

So, is there anyone making cheap flightcases in China and selling them at rock bottom prices against whom we can compare costs?
Yep, there's Thomann's in-house brand Thon.
An equivalent Thon case is about £70.

We know that Thomann/Thon are using a similar supply line strategy to Behringer, so we have to assume that the Thomann/Thon price structure is the cheapest strategy. But Behringer can always go cheaper.

The Thon case is half the price of me making one.

Now, I haven't even got onto the power supply.
I was convinced this would be a simple piece of kit to make. My brother informed me that good power supplies are not as simple as they seem. The basis of a Eurorack power supply is a very stable voltage. this is not like a 12v wall wart. My bro explained a lot of things about power supplies which I will spare you. The good ones are not cheap.

The entry level TipTop uZeus is £65 so lets say Behringer can do one at their £39 to £49 band

We can say based on these assumptions that the case could be about £60 - £70 (cheaper than Thomann), the power would be £39 - £49 (cheaper than TipTop)

So that's a projected £99 to £119 ( $130 USD to $153 USD )

Behringer always surprise me on price, but I would call a good powered case at £100 "good value" not "expensive"
Old 21st January 2019
  #863
I love it when people who've never made or sold anything commercially claim something could/should be a lot cheaper.
In any case, every dollar you save is another dollar off some poor persons $30 a week pay packet.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #864
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Behringer said last week that they weren’t going to make cases
Old 22nd January 2019
  #865
Personally I think the Rackbrutes are great value - £270 for 6U.
I own Doepfer Low Cost cases which are built like tanks with a great power supply.
The post earlier was absolutely right, you can make as cheap a case as you like, but a good quality PSU is absolutely essential.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #866
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I'm one of the people that complained about case prices, and ended up going with 20u racks and TipTop rails and power because of it. Thing of it is, the reason my racks are so cheap is because they're mass produced on a huge scale with parts that are interchangeable with other parts in their product lineup. Outside of my janky way of doing things, most modular cases and power solutions are pretty accurately priced. Even if Behringer did get in the case game, they probably wouldn't be able to get their cases that much cheaper than what's currently out there.

Think of your case as a piece of furniture (because that's pretty much what it is). Do you want Ikea, or do you want a well-made piece of equipment meant for a lifetime of enjoyment?
Old 22nd January 2019
  #867
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Saw the mock up for their pro one.

Like the new changes with more CV breakouts.

Looks like they added a poly mode option on a switch, curious on that. Seems like it would be a Midi thing.
Old 26th January 2019
  #868
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Did Behringer show these at all at NAMM? I wonder when we can expect these modules to be available for purchase?
Old 26th January 2019
  #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
Did Behringer show these at all at NAMM? I wonder when we can expect these modules to be available for purchase?
no they didn't - they'll get released piece after piece within the next 2 years
Old 27th January 2019
  #870
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Uli said in the MS-101 thread that
"John Price who has been designing analog circuitry for over 40 years - initially for Rupert Neve and the last 20 years for Midas... Is currently working on an incredible exciting modular synth which he redesigned to match the Eurorack format."

I wonder if that means an old modular system like the Moog system, or perhaps the 2600 or Fenix?
Or it could be an entirely new synth that John Price developed that he's now adapting to the Eurorack format.

On another note, I think Behringer should consider cloning the Roland System-700 modules as well.
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