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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 6th January 2019
  #781
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_soulcatcher View Post
They are that innovative, that they drastically dropped in price before they completely disappeared
Well you're just demonstrating that most people don't want innovation and prefer something they know and understand.
If you can prove Roland didn't innovate with those modules I'm ALL EARS.
Old 6th January 2019
  #782
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
the neutron is unfortunately cheaper than a single module ...
A Roland TR09 or 08 is cheaper than a collection of Tip Top or Erica drum modules.
The Roland D05 is also cheaper than a couple of Eurorack modules in a rack.
Yes, Eurorack is expensive, arguably too expensive.
Old 6th January 2019
  #783
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Well you're just demonstrating that most people don't want innovation and prefer something they know and understand.
No, I was pointing out that their "innovation" wasn't a big success or why did they stop producing eurorack fx?
Old 6th January 2019
  #784
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
it will be time to wake up
where there are fewer and fewer voices ...
And fewer and fewer choices?

I'm not interested in the ethical debate, but I am concerned that smaller Eurorack makers might suffer from Behringer's entry into the market.

I totally get that some people don't care and might even be pleased to see them go under for alleged crimes such as over-charging their customers, etc.

But this isn't how I feel. It would make me sad to see smaller Eurorack makers go under because they can't compete with such a massive corporation.

I won't get into an argument about it, though--because we're talking about feelings here--emotions--you know, those things most of us have but aren't supposed to give a fvck about when it comes to business and economics.

I can respect--even envy--those who are able to remove feelings from matters of business and economics. But I've found feelings to be useful as a musician. It's difficult to explain, but I believe embracing emotions that aren't always (if ever) logical has actually helped me become a better musician.

The downside is that I can become emotionally involved in things I'm not supposed to give a fvck about. It's not something I can turn on and off easily. There's no power switch.
Old 6th January 2019
  #785
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
A Roland TR09 or 08 is cheaper than a collection of Tip Top or Erica drum modules.
The Roland D05 is also cheaper than a couple of Eurorack modules in a rack.
Yes, Eurorack is expensive, arguably too expensive.
yes that is unfortunately so, the reason why I have no eurorack except 3 modules.

i am seriously considering this system .. really cheap ..

Old 6th January 2019
  #786
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_soulcatcher View Post
No, I was pointing out that their "innovation" wasn't a big success or why did they stop producing eurorack fx?
Yes, and I'm agreeing.
People prefer something they know and understand. Look at the numerous Behringer Wishlist threads on the forum.....
Roland 100M, CS80, Jupiter 8 etc, etc....
Old 6th January 2019
  #787
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
....The mods must be busy or distracted.....
< Over here it was in the middle of the night. I do need to sleep sometime. The thread will not be "nuked" (so messy! ) but instead I'll join it with the existing Behringer thread (where the original announcement of the modules' release was made). Please, if you want to participate, be polite, and no political issues (again). Thank you. >
Old 6th January 2019
  #788
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
And fewer and fewer choices?

I'm not interested in the ethical debate, but I am concerned that smaller Eurorack makers might suffer from Behringer's entry into the market.

I totally get that some people don't care and might even be pleased to see them go under for alleged crimes such as over-charging their customers, etc.

But this isn't how I feel. It would make me sad to see smaller Eurorack makers go under because they can't compete with such a massive corporation.

I won't get into an argument about it, though--because we're talking about feelings here--emotions--you know, those things most of us have but aren't supposed to give a fvck about when it comes to business and economics.

I can respect--even envy--those who are able to remove feelings from matters of business and economics. But I've found feelings to be useful as a musician. It's difficult to explain, but I believe embracing emotions that aren't always (if ever) logical has actually helped me become a better musician.

The downside is that I can become emotionally involved in things I'm not supposed to give a fvck about. It's not something I can turn on and off easily. There's no power switch.
certain companies .. especially 0ne can from me like to disappear from the market .. would not weep
this is about roland .. a rural small business idyllically situated on the slopes of mount fuji..the work starts with the daily zen ceremony.
who cares .. this is not kill bill vol.1 end scene ..
I've never been ready to spend buzz on synths ... that's all ..

@Reptil what you sleep ... it is expected 25 hours 8 days a week presence .. always in the big-synth mode
Old 6th January 2019
  #789
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goony's Avatar
I have held off from modular because of mainly the cost of building a compete system, now with Behringer coming into the market, maybe the price will encourage people like me to dive into it.
Old 6th January 2019
  #790
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Yes, and I'm agreeing.
People prefer something they know and understand. Look at the numerous Behringer Wishlist threads on the forum.....
Roland 100M, CS80, Jupiter 8 etc, etc....
I agree, but we have to accept the fact that this preference was made on boards like this and people like "us" praising, even worshiping an analog past that never existed in the same way as it is perceived nowadays.

My latest purchases outside eurorack were JD-XA, MODX and i have my eyes fixed on Quantum. Its time to move on.

Its the same for compressors and such devices. If there is no technical development, then there is only a price race to the bottom or upscale marketing left to do.
Old 6th January 2019
  #791
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
As long Behringer is only cloning vintage stuff, I don't see any problems for small companies / developers who do new (innovative) stuff at all.

Every hype will end of course and as soon all the requested vintage clones will have been produced more people will demand something new and innovative again
Old 6th January 2019
  #792
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Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lost_the_peace View Post
You can buy doepfer/ladik modules for £50-£60 already. This offers 20-30% on that.

If I were poor and wanted euro I'd get a neutron!

If I was poorer I would do what lookmumnocomputer does and DIY.

Wealth shouldn't determine or justify ethics and shouldn't justify copying others work in a race to the bottom
sort of agreed but IMO if you were poor you would likely use reaktor over any modular, semi or diy - more finicky yes but so long as you have a pc it is exponentially more powerful
Old 6th January 2019
  #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
see at m1 only the incorrigible, no one else suns.
lasting a few years then this is no longer a topic.
Old 6th January 2019
  #794
Here for the gear
Sys-100 lite

Sys-100 lite in Neutron/Model D format would be cool.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Old 6th January 2019
  #795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
I agree, but we have to accept the fact that this preference was made on boards like this and people like "us" praising, even worshiping an analog past that never existed in the same way as it is perceived nowadays.
People LOVED analog in it's original form.
The Mini-Moog, Jupiter 8 and CS80 were highly prized and thought of as great instruments that sounded great - back in the day.
The main thing is that music was different back then.
Without samplers it was difficult to replicate acoustic instruments. And hard work carting acoustic instruments and electric pianos and organs around to gigs.
So when synths came along that could do string sounds, and electric piano sounds, people couldn't afford to have both, so sold their pure analog synths and bought string machines and digital synths instead.
It wasn't because they weren't appreciated, it was because the pop music at the time featured a lot of electric pianos, brass and strings, and analog synths weren't that good at replicating those sounds.
Old 6th January 2019
  #796
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
certain companies .. especially 0ne can from me like to disappear from the market .. would not weep
this is about roland .. a rural small business idyllically situated on the slopes of mount fuji..the work starts with the daily zen ceremony.
who cares...
Yes, I'm well aware of your dislike of Moog Music and how you would like to see them disappear. But if this is only about Roland, then why would you also say this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
there are modules from AHJ which are authentic in price
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
Exhibit C: which is closer if that is as close as the model d then good night malekko
Would you also "not weep" if these companies disappeared as well? Please explain.

I agree the AHJ modules are expensive but they sound excellent and are very well made. My feeling is that AHJ can charge however much people are willing to pay (and it would seem they are willing).

I'd say the same about the Roland modules. They're expensive, yes, but some people still find value in them. My hope is that Roland will lower the price as a result of Behringer cloning their modules. But I would not like to see them stop production altogether. This would be a loss for the market, not a gain. At least, that's how I see it.
Old 6th January 2019
  #797
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If you make power supplies for these, make sure they're damn good. And make 3U and 6U 84 HP cases. Power & case offerings in the market are too expensive, for what they are.
Quote:
This would be a great way to put small makers out of business and end innovation.
We small makers aren't getting rich, all of us would make more money putting our skills to use in other markets. If you want to end innovation, this is an awesome way to do it.
Can't see Behringer making innovative modules, they will just make bread and butter stuff for cheap. Boutique makers should be able to offer better sounds and weird stuff and continue charging what they charge. Now if you want to sell basic modules at high prices because eurorack, yeah those days are probably over.
Old 6th January 2019
  #798
In the UK AJH modules are very affordable. They run around £200 each for a proper analogue signal path that is built like a tank.
Likewise Roland in a way, as in you are buying two of everything. So the 512 Dual VCF is £310 which is £155 per VCO, well below the standard price for Eurorack VCO modules.

Expensive for me are Make Noise, Noise Engineering, Cwejman (obviously) etc......
Old 6th January 2019
  #799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebase DMX View Post
If you make power supplies for these, make sure they're damn good. And make 3U and 6U 84 HP cases. Power & case offerings in the market are too expensive, for what they are.
I've DIY-ed them. The big issue is to source cheap aluminium eurocard standard racks. Most ppl. now use (Meanwell or other) switching powersupplies. But there were some isssues with ripple and such (do a search). The Eurocard racks have been a standard for decades (laboratory and in the nineties and late eightties for radio amateurs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebase DMX View Post
Now if you want to sell basic modules at high prices because eurorack, yeah those days are probably over.
As mentioned; Ladik and Doepfer are already on the "basic, affordable" end.
Would these M100 modules price them out of production? I think that remains to be seen. I like both brands of modules.
Old 6th January 2019
  #800
I think people should start a modular system because it has a purpose for them.
Either it's for fun, experimentation or sound design. Not because it is now cheap.
If people think there is mysterious magic in modular, there are going to be a lot of Behringer modules hitting the used market.

Eurorack has been established for a long time. The latest explosion has been ongoing for at least ten years. Those that got into Eurorack over the last ten years already have a boatload of basic modules, and probably won't buy many more.
I buy about three or four modules a year, mostly new designs.
Old 6th January 2019
  #801
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Roland music division is actually small.
The jury will have to be out on Behringer until we hear them, experience the build quality.
As things stand, the Roland/Malekko modules are well built and sound good, although yes they are expensive.
The jury is most definitely nt out with some...and Roland music division is not some boutiqe company, sorry

Except for the boutiques of course
Old 6th January 2019
  #802
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
The jury is most definitely nt out with some...
Well factually it HAS to be as no one has seen or heard their Eurorack modules yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
and Roland music division is not some boutiqe company, sorry
I didn't say 'boutique', I said small...as in not as big as a mega corp.
They were failing in the 2010's and were subject to a management buyout in 2014.
Old 6th January 2019
  #803
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Well factually it HAS to be as no one has seen or heard their Eurorack modules yet.




I didn't say 'boutique', I said small...as in not as big as a mega corp.
They were failing in the 2010's and were subject to a management buyout in 2014.
I dont think I implied it was a mega corp...but its not small. Turnover of over $400 million in 2014(similar to its sister company DG) is not a small comany. At the time of its takover its turnover was up, I thought it was more about restructuring and increasing profits by going private? It had recovered from 2013 losses by $75 squillion rupees in ‘14 (But thats another discussion)

Anyway now its the the modular forum its no longer of my interest...Ill stick to the main behringer forum
Old 6th January 2019
  #804
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Yes, I'm well aware of your dislike of Moog Music and how you would like to see them disappear. But if this is only about Roland, then why would you also say this?





Would you also "not weep" if these companies disappeared as well? Please explain.

I agree the AHJ modules are expensive but they sound excellent and are very well made. My feeling is that AHJ can charge however much people are willing to pay (and it would seem they are willing).

I'd say the same about the Roland modules. They're expensive, yes, but some people still find value in them. My hope is that Roland will lower the price as a result of Behringer cloning their modules. But I would not like to see them stop production altogether. This would be a loss for the market, not a gain. At least, that's how I see it.
what should I explain , that's just a chicken shack where all run around ..
With luck, the zero product will be the last of it, they work on it headless



to ajh .. normal smd equipment .. sound like a model-d looks like a model-d ... if this is worth the extra charge



then there are still these "innovative" boutique manufacturers .. most of what I've heard may be innovative but not musical ..
it has its reason why "simple" modules sell better
Old 6th January 2019
  #805
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
to ajh .. normal smd equipment .. sound like a model-d looks like a model-d ... if this is worth the extra charge
It depends.
I own a few AJH modules. I'm not looking for a Mini Moog sound or to replicate a Mini Moog. As I said, they are affordable in the UK and well built. I wanted a good sounding analog oscillator, a nice basic lo-pass filter. The AJH gives me both at a lower price.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
then there are still these "innovative" boutique manufacturers .. most of what I've heard may be innovative but not musical ..
it has its reason why "simple" modules sell better
They are all just tools.
Innovative doesn't have to be complex, just something a bit new.
I only make 'listenable' music, not bleeps and bloops (to quote a cliche) and I'm attracted to the innovative side of Eurorack.
Old 6th January 2019
  #806
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Ill stick to the main behringer forum
trololol

"Behringer Music and (occasional) Production"
Old 6th January 2019
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Why do people persist with these myths?.
Roland absolutely innovated in Eurorack with their FX modules - Torcido, Demora etc. The 'actor' not innovating is Behringer.
The aira fx range are HUGELY overlooked. Great sounding units on their own and the customisable software really is a massive step forward that went largely ignored. The demora is one of my all time favourite delays and ive owned literally dozens and dozens of boutique/high end pedal/rack delays over the years.
Old 6th January 2019
  #808
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goony's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
It depends.
I own a few AJH modules. I'm not looking for a Mini Moog sound or to replicate a Mini Moog. As I said, they are affordable in the UK and well built. I wanted a good sounding analog oscillator, a nice basic lo-pass filter. The AJH gives me both at a lower price.
Maybe affordable in your bubble, but not so in someone else's.

£240ish for just a vco, does not compare to the proposed offerings by Behringer for £50 to £100.

http://www.ajhsynth.com/pdf/Price%20...Nov%202018.pdf
Old 6th January 2019
  #809
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
It depends.
I own a few AJH modules. I'm not looking for a Mini Moog sound or to replicate a Mini Moog. As I said, they are affordable in the UK and well built. I wanted a good sounding analog oscillator, a nice basic lo-pass filter. The AJH gives me both at a lower price.




They are all just tools.
Innovative doesn't have to be complex, just something a bit new.
I only make 'listenable' music, not bleeps and bloops (to quote a cliche) and I'm attracted to the innovative side of Eurorack.

nevertheless, ajh remains a minimoog modular also called MiniMod System .. the traditional system XX module does not exist.
I'm confident that behringer brings similar ..
with the current model-d I can lead the oscillators before the filter
comes pretty close to the desired one. 3 osc for 300.- with a whole synth to it

bleep bloop is good at describing the normal eurorack spaghetti salad very well .. there are thousands of chilling videos online
Old 6th January 2019
  #810
Here for the gear
 

I was looking at the 110 because I'm the kind of guy who likes having self contained voices on hand.

BUT ... I wondered about the size of the faders.

I conjured up a quick image to roughly calculate the size of those faders



The faders appear to be roughly the WIDTH of an SD card. 2.3cm . (Less than an inch !)

Uh folks, that's a little small for me.

Pull out an SD card and look at the width of it. so, so small!

Another example.
From the top of my index finger to the first knuckle on that finger is roughly 2.3 cm.
Look at your index finger. Can you accurately manipulate faders smaller than that first knuckle?

I think this might be a problem.
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