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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 14th April 2018
  #31
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by abelovesfun View Post
This would be a great way to put small makers out of business and end innovation.
We small makers aren't getting rich, all of us would make more money putting our skills to use in other markets. If you want to end innovation, this is an awesome way to do it.
If you are innovative i am sure there will be always room for you in this market.

What happened lately tho was, that rather cheaply to build modules were given fancy names and offered for premium money.
Old 14th April 2018
  #32
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Uli, I would LOVE to see something like a compact single-voice Oberheim Xpander/Matrix-12 voice (or maybe an enhanced UB-Xa voice) in a compact module with CV ins and outs. It's okay if it's a little menu divey.
I'm the hyper of person who is less interested in large systems and I'm more interested in how many FULL synth voices I can fit into a portable eurorack case (for live and stage stuff. not to mention saving room in a studio).

I also would love to see this: A dual VCA/ADSR combo. That way you don't need a VCA and an envelope, you can just rout your audio right through the enevelope and then patch the second ADSR to wherever it needs to go (like a filter cutoff). It saves the need to buy TWO modules. Just make it so both enevelopes CV still can be patched wherever and that the internal VCA can be overridden by another signal if needed.

IDK just a thought.

Also PLEASE make an Arp 2600! With the rev-2 filter. If you make a 2600 and price it fairly I will buy TWO of them.
Old 14th April 2018
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homesweethome View Post
Pro-1? Did I miss something?
Yessssssssssssss

Behringer Pro 1
Old 14th April 2018
  #34
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Omg so cool. I vote for a stereo dual analog self oscillating state variable filter that tracks v/oct and you can cv everything.
Old 14th April 2018
  #35
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It wouldn't be worth it though. In order to be innovative you have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars failing, and then recoup some of that in the success of the ones that succeed. Some companies prefer to use other people's designs and put out cheaper versions to undercut them - we have seen this with mixers, fx pedals, and many other section. Knowing that a popular, innovative design a small company made would just be copied by that larger company that didn't have to do that failing and development is not good incentive for a maker when they know they can make more money doing something else. I am not personally worried about my company, we have a different niche from what Behringer would make, but I know many makers, and I know some of them will opt to quit.

I've heard people not in the industry make your point, but for many makers, the current numbers don't support that theory, it's a niche market with a comparatively low maximum number (meaning module x will only ever sell so much because of low user numbers).

The argument that capitalism will welcome a larger, (historically) less innovative competitor and only affect poor makers is not the case here, because the user market is small enough that it will effect even very innovative makers. Given that almost all of us are doing this as a labor of love and obsession (I have dinner with other makers all the time - I know this to be true) many will get frustrated at being copied and decide it isn't worth it.

The current field is small enough that bad actors and copycats are shunned and go out of business. That integrity in the community is what makes it work for the good makers. Like I said, I'm not worried personally, and I know of other very small makers who are also not worried, but many will indeed decide that it is no longer worth it to participate in a market that does not honor integrity.

I applaud Behringer's foray into the deep mind and neuron - those are new things - but if they just issue Maths (DUSG) copies and Plaits...
Old 14th April 2018
  #36
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Where the freuquency tracks v/oct also a cheap tiny case
Old 14th April 2018
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismasciari View Post
Omg so cool. I vote for a dual self oscillating state variable filter. Also. Mutible instruments clones?
Why would Oliver keep making modules if Behringer just cloned them for cheaper?
Old 14th April 2018
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abelovesfun View Post
Why would Oliver keep making modules if Behringer just cloned them for cheaper?
Yeah true.
Old 14th April 2018
  #39
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EvilRoy's Avatar
Something to put it all in. Eurorack rails/cases are ridiculously expensive.

I'd like to get a Model D and put it into a 19" rack (as soon as I can find one, lol). That means $100s more on Eurorack rails/skiff etc. I'd love it if the monos semi-mods your making/will make had rack ears as an option.

Thanks for all the great synths so far.
Old 14th April 2018
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismasciari View Post
Omg so cool. I vote for a stereo dual analog self oscillating state variable filter that tracks v/oct and you can cv everything.
If you also made a small case this product would be desirable to both eurorack users and any other musicians. You could also make a standalone version. Basically i need this effect.
Old 14th April 2018
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abelovesfun View Post
This would be a great way to put small makers out of business and end innovation.
We small makers aren't getting rich, all of us would make more money putting our skills to use in other markets. If you want to end innovation, this is an awesome way to do it.
I don't really see Behringer making copies of existing modules, unless those modules are copies themselves (ie: ladder filter) or ancient designs to begin with. IMHO, the modular market is too small for a company like Behringer to even trouble with making real specialized modules, clones or originals. Does Behringer's cheap guitar pedal line (old designs that have more or less been cloned to death already) put a significant dent in the bottom line of any small guitar pedal makers? Probably not, if anything there are more small makers today than ever, and some of them make some real interesting stuff that just wasn't available 10 years ago.

I know, guitars are way more popular than modular. But I'm just using it as an example. I don't think small modular makers have much to worry about.

OTOH, something like a practical and affordable case that appeals to newcomers and existing modular users already makes sense and could be built in significant quantities. And sure, Behringer will likely make some generic beginner modules (Model D osc, ladder filter, CEM osc...). But if anything, making that barrier of entry drop further would only expand the modular market, and eventually equal more sales for the small modular makers. Its not like most users would fit out most or all of their Behringer case with Behringer modules...they would mix and match from other manufacturers, just as they currently do.

Old 14th April 2018
  #42
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I agree with you 95%. The analogy with guitar pedals is close but slightly flawed because there is so much lower volume of modules compared to pedals. Imagine how many guitar pedals are on the planet vs eurorack modules - that's a huge difference in market. Every time I as a maker run out of stock and need to reorder panels/pcbs, etc... I need to ask: how many ___ will Planet Earth buy? That isn't a question Boss asks when they order more DS-1s (or, rather, it is, but they ask it in the 10000s, not the 100s. Otherwise I agree - not many module companies just make copies, and those that do will suffer for better or worse. It all depends on how the behemoth acts in the marketplace. If they enter it and respect the current values, all will be well. If they make mutable clones as someone else in this thread requested, then innovation will suffer. I don't think they would do that personally, and I'm not personally worried, because I am niche as heck, but if they did do that, I would really feel for Oliver over at MI.
Old 14th April 2018
  #43
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jc2046's Avatar
 

That's exactly what I wanted to hear from you, Uli. Lets get started:

1-Cases /PSUs
2-An audio interface with tons of CV (4 ins/ 8 outs or more), so we can control the modular from the DAW (like expert sleepers modules)
3- Complex oscillators
4-A music easel clone (maybe without the keybed to keep costs down)
5- Before of all that, the ARP 2600 clone (with 2 or 3 different filters, ala Karp Odyssey)

Thank you for asking us, Mr Behringer
Old 14th April 2018
  #44
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by abelovesfun View Post
The argument that capitalism will welcome a larger, (historically) less innovative competitor and only affect poor makers is not the case here, because the user market is small enough that it will effect even very innovative makers.
You are making 2 mistakes here.

1. The entry of Behringer will expand the customer base. Especially if he comes along with a rack + power solution for 99.- and therfor finally making the entry to modular accessable for everyone.

2. The entry of Behringer will push out loads of the "rogue builders" in eurorack. Innovators like Olivier or enablers like Doepfer or Ladik will feel it for certain products (Osc, filters mostly) but will profit from it in other lines (utility, specials).


The problem of modular builders is the gazzillion of small guys, not the 2 to 4 bigger players (DSI, Moog, Roland, Behringer).
Old 15th April 2018
  #45
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Modular_8's Avatar
 

i'd prefer to see something new rather than rehashing of old ideas/designs.
Old 15th April 2018
  #46
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Modular_8's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
You are making 2 mistakes here.

1. The entry of Behringer will expand the customer base. Especially if he comes along with a rack + power solution for 99.- and therfor finally making the entry to modular accessable for everyone.

happy ending kit is only $150
Old 15th April 2018
  #47
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Analog Rob Lowe's Avatar
Same here, ARP2600
Old 15th April 2018
  #48
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gruvsyco's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
1. The entry of Behringer will expand the customer base. Especially if he comes along with a rack + power solution for 99.- and therefore finally making the entry to modular accessible for everyone.
[IMO]
Honestly, I think it will encourage some of the "Modular sucks" crowd to give it a try because of the lower entry point only to leave them basically patching the same thing as their non-modular and going... "Modular does suck, still too expensive for what you get". Leaving a glut of cheap Behringer modules on the market with almost no resale value.

Overall, I expect it will only add a handful (relatively) of new modular users. And, again, I expect they will likely part with most of the Behringer modules as well, for more unique modules.
[/IMO]
Old 15th April 2018
  #49
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modular_8 View Post
happy ending kit is only $150
Yes it is, but honestly it looks like it should cost $50 and something Behringer could sell for $39.99

It's a power supply and a simple metal ring

I for one have come so close to enter Eurorack land many times , but think the cost of Skiffs or things like the Happy Ending is just plain highway robbery so I dont.

Just yesterday I was looking at the Make Noise powered skiff to drop a Model D into and getting a few other modules, just couldn't drop the cash on something that costs $250 but should cost far less than $100
Old 15th April 2018
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last System View Post
Maybe I'm the only one who is not interested in Eurorack.

These will be very fun and you will learn synthesis, but I would prefer synthesizers that facilitate the time of work, such as the rack sound modules or I prefer learn to play the keyboard or learn harmony.

Time is gold and there is always little.
You are not the only one, I'm only interesyed in the Rossum modules because they are basically the latest EMU sampler.
Old 15th April 2018
  #51
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How does this sound to extend Neutron format?

How does this sound to extend Neutron format?

Behringer Original Synths

Riffing: 2 more synths follow Neutron model, original synths created by Behringer

ProtRon: Buchla inspired. Sequencer, Randomizer, wavefolder, Math like complex env generator, additive... patchbay mirrors Neutron so patching gives you best of both coast synthesis

Effectron: Sample based, Granular, reverb, saturation, chorus, maybe four voice percussion sample player...patchbay mirrors Neutron.

Three together = Uli Atomic series (Neutron, Protron, Effectron) =
A) mindblowing original synth series,
B) infinitely patchable that rivals Eurorack which costs THOUSANDS bookoh bucks
C) Must have all three
D) Outlet for Behringer/Midas engineers creativity and innovation
E) Each is a self standing instrument, format matches Neutron design, interaction between three synths blows the competition out of the water.
F) Buy all three and you have a formidable eurorack system. No eurorack case needed.
G) Effect box good for guitars or singers too.
Old 15th April 2018
  #52
Id be interested...dipped my toes in it before...and at that pricepoint Id do again. But I find the costliest part of it is the case. Id seriously go for a 3x104hp case if it didnt cost an arm and a leg...and fill it. There are plenty of cheap models out there and behringer would suppliment them, its just that initial case outlay thats put me off.

So with the new monos being eurorackmountable Id offer cases first, then modules to fill them
Old 15th April 2018
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevH View Post
How does this sound to extend Neutron format?

How does this sound to extend Neutron format?

������ Behringer Original Synths

Riffing: 2 more synths follow Neutron model, original synths created by Behringer

ProtRon: Buchla inspired. Sequencer, Randomizer, wavefolder, Math like complex env generator, additive... patchbay mirrors Neutron so patching gives you best of both coast synthesis

Effectron: Sample based, Granular, reverb, saturation, chorus, maybe four voice percussion sample player...patchbay mirrors Neutron.

Three together = Uli Atomic series (Neutron, Protron, Effectron) =
A) mindblowing original synth series,
B) infinitely patchable that rivals Eurorack which costs THOUSANDS bookoh bucks
C) Must have all three
D) Outlet for Behringer/Midas engineers creativity and innovation
E) Each is a self standing instrument, format matches Neutron design, interaction between three synths blows the competition out of the water.
F) Buy all three and you have a formidable eurorack system. No eurorack case needed.
G) Effect box good for guitars or singers too.
I'd like a DaDooRonRon.
Old 15th April 2018
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abelovesfun View Post
I agree with you 95%. The analogy with guitar pedals is close but slightly flawed because there is so much lower volume of modules compared to pedals. Imagine how many guitar pedals are on the planet vs eurorack modules - that's a huge difference in market. Every time I as a maker run out of stock and need to reorder panels/pcbs, etc... I need to ask: how many ___ will Planet Earth buy? That isn't a question Boss asks when they order more DS-1s (or, rather, it is, but they ask it in the 10000s, not the 100s.
This is more than a bit disingenuous.. compare yourself to a small, boutique pedal maker and you've got a valid point. But, Roland?

Oh, and if Olivier were that concerned about cheaper clones - which are ALREADY AVAILABLE - he wouldn't open-source his code.

That said:

Uli - I'd like to see some things that aren't common currently in euro. For vintage flavor, things like the 2600 and MS20 components.. there are a few out there, but nothing really spot-on. Modern stuff? Cool digital modules, in the ballpark of the Shapeshifter or SynthTech stuff. Random stuff is always welcome.
Old 15th April 2018
  #55
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midiquestions's Avatar
ARP 2600

Very impressed with the Neutron BTW.
Old 15th April 2018
  #56
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midiquestions's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
Yes it is, but honestly it looks like it should cost $50 and something Behringer could sell for $39.99

It's a power supply and a simple metal ring

I for one have come so close to enter Eurorack land many times , but think the cost of Skiffs or things like the Happy Ending is just plain highway robbery so I dont.

Just yesterday I was looking at the Make Noise powered skiff to drop a Model D into and getting a few other modules, just couldn't drop the cash on something that costs $250 but should cost far less than $100
Couldn't agree more. Setup costs alone are prohibitive.
Old 15th April 2018
  #57
Gear Nut
I'd definitely get started in Eurorack if Behringer came out with a cheap powered case, and I think lowering that initial barrier to entry would only do positive things for the Eurorack market. As far as modules go, I do worry a little bit about Behringer stepping on the toes of boutique manufacturers, but I don't think there's a problem with making cheap versions of basic, essential, unsexy utilities, or breaking out something like the Neutron into separate modules. It would definitely be nice to get the Neutron filter as it's own module since it's an original design.
Old 15th April 2018
  #58
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Lots of interest here if cost of entry is improved.

I'd like to see a well priced module that made Duophonic playing of multiple oscs possible: midi input a gate output, and two groups of 3 CV outputs, one for the low voice, one for high. Plus the gate output should have a couple of trigger modes.
Old 15th April 2018
  #59
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I would love a clone of the Korg Mono / Poly Synthesizer.

Also, you need better distributors in Brazil I think, I still can not get anyone to sell Model D around here.
Old 15th April 2018
  #60
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
I'm contantly miffed that people say cases are expensive, there are cheap cases and expensive ones like in any area of life. Those who complain cases are expensive please put down what you want and a cost I'm genounely interested in what you think a cheap case is..
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