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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 24th April 2018
  #481
Lives for gear
 
El-Burrito's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Here's the kicker though.....
Most people who get into Eurorack and build a conventional synth voice soon get sick of it. It's easier to work on a hardwired mono synth, than spend 15 minutes patching only to get to the same end result.
A Roland 100M clone is just going to be a conventional, subtractive synth voice. So what are you getting that's different to a mono hardwired synth?
Modulating the modulator with modulator that modulates the modulator.
Can’t do it with SH101. Maybe Neutron could do it with some additional modules.

I love TAL-MOD for that. It has Roland sound, but wider modulation options.
Old 24th April 2018
  #482
Gear Maniac
 
toobdude's Avatar
 

Dear Mr Behringer,

What I think would be the most innovative synth Behringer could make is to "buy out", "work with", "whatever arrangement could be made", with the team from Mutable Instruments and make an 8-voice polyphonic "physical modelling-type" synth based from Mutable Instruments Elements, Rings, Clouds WITH MEMORY and plenty of LFOs and modulation ability.

Now that would be special.

(I am sorry if I am repeating someone else in this post. I have not read though all 17 pages).
Old 24th April 2018
  #483
Gear Maniac
 
Summer Of Nebula's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Here's the kicker though.....
Most people who get into Eurorack and build a conventional synth voice soon get sick of it. It's easier to work on a hardwired mono synth, than spend 15 minutes patching only to get to the same end result.
A Roland 100M clone is just going to be a conventional, subtractive synth voice. So what are you getting that's different to a mono hardwired synth?
Now you are trying to talk people out of starting a modular system??

I don't know what other people will get, but If I buy either a Roland 500 system or a Behringer 100m I will get the sound I am after (if Behringer can deliver it) plus a lot more modulation possibilities than using a fixed synth + I can use my weird eurorack sequencers/quantizers/... to drive that one sound I am after.
In short, I will get what I am looking for, which is a subtractive synth (just if I patch it that way) consisting of all the modules I want, which will maybe be a mixture of Roland and Behringer modules and probably an Intellijel Atlantis too. Roland sound from 3 different manufacturers.

I am not lusting for digital voices or samplers in modular, nothing at all, so a patchable Roland system would be perfect for me and for people who are into its sound.

Different strokes for different folks.
Old 24th April 2018
  #484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer Of Nebula View Post
Now you are trying to talk people out of starting a modular system??
Different strokes for different folks.
Ha, ha. Nice try at twisting my point.
I'm just pointing out two very common views on Eurorack.
1) That building a conventional synth voice in modular is not the best end goal. It's just a simple fact that most people who end up with an analog modular synth voice become disenchanted with the work it takes to patch a simple bass or lead sound, and therefore give up on using their modular quite quickly.
2) That building a modular system with cheap $100 modules doesn't make you immune to the rest of Eurorack in the $200 not $500 price range per module.
I can think of very few people I've met personally or have read posts from that have stuck with a simple Deopfer system, and have not started to expand their system with the more popular Eurorack modules that start at $200 and go up to $500.

Just don't kid yourself.
Old 24th April 2018
  #485
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Summer Of Nebula's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Ha, ha. Nice try at twisting my point.
I'm just pointing out two very common views on Eurorack.
I am sorry if I stepped on your toes. I didn't want to twist your point, it just sounded that way to me.

ad 1) simple bass and leads and other "simple" stuff I make with my wysiwyg synths standing on my studio table.
We are here in the modular subforum, I guess we can assume that people here know what they are doing and know what it means to make a patch on a modular synth as long as we are not taught a better one.

ad 2) thanks, I know. I am "addicted" to good sounding gear too like most of us and spent lots of money on converters, EQs, synths, speakers and blabla and therefore I perfectly know that modular is just another money-sucking hole. Behringer moduls aren't my first one and won't be my last
Old 24th April 2018
  #486
Here for the gear
 
florian_anwander's Avatar
My comment is a little late - 10 pages later, but I think its worth to mention:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
I stopped reading right there.
Your basic premise is wrong.
Sorry, but his premise (modular synths are like model rail roads) is exactly the base for the economical success of a maker of a modular system. Thats the premise, why it makes sense to start a business with modular synths.

I have a quite interesting comparison: I worked as an subeditor at a publishing house specialized on rail road (sic!) themes. We sold books like "Steam Locomotives of Royal Bavarian Railroads". Price: 49 Euros. Then we wanted to do a book about freight wagons, but the author said, he has no time to deliver the complete book within a reasonable time. So we decided to make a loose leave edition, so the author had time to write. 20 to 25 pages for 7 Euros, delivered every two or three months. The edition reached 51 issues, which makes 357 Euros in total - instead of 49 Euros for a book. And also: we sold more of this loose leave editions than we would ever had sold if we had a made a book from it, because everyone thinks "aaah, 7 Euros that's nothing". Only a few make up the bill which says "357 Euros is ridiculous".

Thats the same with modular synths vs. complete synths. Did you ever make up the bill "cost of a Behringer Model D" vs "the costs of the modular equivalent"?

Last edited by florian_anwander; 24th April 2018 at 11:48 AM..
Old 24th April 2018
  #487
Here for the gear
 
florian_anwander's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokut View Post

- 174 Parametric EQ: CV control over Frequency and/or bandwidth
Suggestion to @Uli Behringer:
Control the bandwidth with shaft-only potentiometers and the frequency with sliders. I want to "play" the frequency, but not the bandwidth (at least that is my experience from the Doepfer A-104 Trautonium Filter).

Last edited by florian_anwander; 24th April 2018 at 11:38 AM.. Reason: Wrong Mention
Old 24th April 2018
  #488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer Of Nebula View Post
We are here in the modular subforum, I guess we can assume that people here know what they are doing and know what it means to make a patch on a modular synth as long as we are not taught a better one.
A lot of people have posted they are curious about modular, and these cheaper behringer modules are their first opportunity to get into modular. So no, I would say a lot of potential customers for these are not experienced modular users.
Old 24th April 2018
  #489
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
A lot of people have posted they are curious about modular, and these cheaper behringer modules are their first opportunity to get into modular. So no, I would say a lot of potential customers for these are not experienced modular users.
Agree 100%.
Zero interest in clones or cheap things in general.
Make something cool and original or don’t bother. The last thing anyone needs is another brand of buffered mults and vanilla clock dividers.
Old 24th April 2018
  #490
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
1) That building a conventional synth voice in modular is not the best end goal. It's just a simple fact that most people who end up with an analog modular synth voice become disenchanted with the work it takes to patch a simple bass or lead sound, and therefore give up on using their modular quite quickly.
The little experience I had with modular indeed made me appreciate all the work that's already done for you on hardwired systems, and the savings you have - none of the "I need more multiples and attenuverters and mixers and..."

On the other hand, I was delighted to see how it expanded my taste for sounds. I like vanilla East Coast stuff and hearing what else was possible was a wonderful experience.

Quote:
2) That building a modular system with cheap $100 modules doesn't make you immune to the rest of Eurorack in the $200 not $500 price range per module.
I think the modules aren't quirky, and future modules are likely to also not be quirky.

If you have someone insisting that the Roland MC-4 is indeed God's Chosen Way of programming music and they spend 3 years obsessively emulating it and then put it in a module, that's quirky. That's what you spend $500 or more for. It's also something mass production won't do well. This is fine.
Old 24th April 2018
  #491
Lives for gear
 

Surely I'm not the only one who intends on pairing these 100m clones (and all of my eurorack in general) with other semi-modular and otherwise CV capable gear... like the Boog, Neutron, Pro-One, DFAM, MiniBrute2, various MiniFooger and MoogerFooger pedals, and more. I'm primarily interested in semi-modular gear, gear that's *supplemented* by my eurorack...

We are, thankfully, awash with such CV capable options nowadays, and after much thought literally the last thing that interests me is building and using a eurorack only setup - no matter the cost or manufacturer, even if by the grace of aliens all modules were suddenly $10 each...

All of which, thankfully, reduces the number of modules I even want or need, particularly the more expensive ones. Further, I'll still be sequencing my eurorack and the rest from my DAW and other OTB gear further resisting the inclination to try to make my eurorack do everything or replace what I already do in other ways. It's hard to resist, I think, but resist it I will.

Many, maybe even most, in the eurorack scene seem obsessed with trying to make their rig do it all, whether simply an aesthetic choice or just for the challenge or to further eschew ITB or other more common methods. And that's cool, truly, but my goals are decidedly different.

In just one sense, I'm already and forever obsessed with the "Roland sound", and just in that sense these 100m clones will scratch that itch like few things can, and do so for a relative bargain. Heck, even if I never bought another module ever - it still will have served *that* purpose, and like other inexpensive clones will have saved me a bundle in the process.

Even with all of its faults and imperfections, options like these 100m clones are exactly what I'm looking for, and I'm beyond delighted to have such options, as every dollar saved let's me shift it elsewhere, and the list of crap I'm interested in is already a mile long anyway. So bring on the lower priced clones, I say, bring them by the proverbial truckload. It's pure win, to me.
Old 24th April 2018
  #492
These modules are on paper.
Already nailing ‘the Roland sound’ are......Roland....and and the System 80 Jove filter is fantastic.
Old 24th April 2018
  #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
These modules are on paper.
Already nailing ‘the Roland sound’ are......Roland....and and the System 80 Jove filter is fantastic.
Of course.

But, in the case of Roland themselves, one option is their 500 series, which is expensive and limited to the few modules they've released so far, another option is a vintage SH-02 (minimal CV, old, and not inexpensive), and another option is an SH-101 (minimal CV, old, expensive nowadays), and of course vintage 100m modules which are both rare and expensive, and so on.

Once/if these 100m clones come to fruition, a mere $1000US for ten of these modules will give me more for my money with more CV control in new gear with a warranty for less money than any of the actual Roland options, which is the entire point. More options, less money, good sound, period. I want what I want for the least amount of money, and it's as simple as that.

I already have a JP8 VCF DIY kit I'm sitting on, and other similar things, BTW.

< deleted by moderator - do not attack other posters for their opinions in this forum >


Cheers.

Last edited by Reptil; 28th April 2018 at 02:41 AM.. Reason: -
Old 24th April 2018
  #494
You guys just don’t get it. It’s a pill that gives worms to ex-girlfriends.
Old 24th April 2018
  #495
< reaction to deleted comment removed by moderator >
I’m not a fan of Behringer. I’m not a fan of rampant consumerism. I think it’s ok to express that, whatever you think.
For me the boutique SH-01A is extremely cheap for what you get. That’s my opinion, like it...or suck it, frankly.

Last edited by Reptil; 28th April 2018 at 02:42 AM.. Reason: -
Old 24th April 2018
  #496
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
So an opinion is ‘trolly’ - right.
I’m not a fan of Behringer. I’m not a fan of rampant consumerism. I think it’s ok to express that, whatever you think.
For me the boutique SH-01A is extremely cheap for what you get. That’s my opinion, like it...or suck it, frankly.
so now we are comparing VA technology (ACB) with VCO's < smilie deleted by moderator - let's not start a flamewar? >

The Roland emulations may sound ok'ish but still too far away from their originals.
It's cool if an ACB device fits your needs, but please don't compare apple with beans.

Last edited by Reptil; 28th April 2018 at 02:38 AM.. Reason: -
Old 24th April 2018
  #497
No, I was actually comparing the hardware 500 series and System 80 Jove filter.
Then Runny Kline listed a bunch of Roland gear he said was too expensive - to which I replied I thought the SH-01A was very cheap.
At most the jury is out on how authentic it sounds. Diehard purists say no, but a lot of serious professionals are using the boutique line, including thr SH01A
Old 24th April 2018
  #498
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Roland M185 Sequencer please.
Old 24th April 2018
  #499
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ArtFluids's Avatar
If the SH-01A had CV/Gate inputs I would be interested.
They did it with the System-1m, so clearly they can do it with digital.

And if anyone is wondering about latency, innerclock systems found that the System-1m had a faster response time than even the Moog Voyager's gate trigger. The Moog Voyager's gate input must have some sort of digital interface with the board which is awful. The average latency is about 5 milliseconds. Compare that to .58 milliseconds with the System-1m.
Old 25th April 2018
  #500
Here for the gear
It'd be dope to see a REALLY great filter based on the coolaudio V3320M. Oh.... wait....
Old 25th April 2018
  #501
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by florian_anwander View Post
My comment is a little late - 10 pages later, but I think its worth to mention:


Sorry, but his premise (modular synths are like model rail roads) is exactly the base for the economical success of a maker of a modular system. Thats the premise, why it makes sense to start a business with modular synths.
I agree to the rail road comparison how you explain it.

However, the premise i didnt agree with was, modular is an addiction.

For my own use, its an expensive hobby that fills small gaps left open on fixed synths. No addiction at all.
Old 25th April 2018
  #502
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
Well yeah, I know how to use noise with a S&H.
I'm saying I like step sequencers where the pitches are set by pots with no pitch quantization.
ok, understood
Old 25th April 2018
  #503
Here for the gear
As I said at the beginning of this thread, I've always dreamt of my own System100M.
Seeing this, I will be able to, buing one or two modules every month, and putting them in a dedicated 100m cabinet. As others said, not to sure about the multiple though, I'd love a case with a 1u patchbay/mulitple's and midi->cv at the bottom.
Old 25th April 2018
  #504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
That's a missing segment in the eurorack lineup is a well-performing mixer at a price that isn't going to make you eat your own head.
The Befaco Hexmix system seems to fit that description.
Befaco.org: Hexmix
(There's a DIY kit for that as well.)
The issue with mixers is a lot of mechanical parts. And if you want some quality that's going to rack up the cost.

The Behringer 131 could be used as well, of course, but has different functionality.
Old 25th April 2018
  #505
@florian_anwander nice to see you post here! It was your series in KEYS magazine that got me hooked on synths.
Old 25th April 2018
  #506
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florian_anwander's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
@florian_anwander nice to see you post here! It was your series in KEYS magazine that got me hooked on synths.
Thanks for the compliment :-)

And...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
However, the premise i didnt agree with was, modular is an addiction.
...now I'd like to have a differentiating definition for "hooked on synths" vs. "modular addiction"
Old 25th April 2018
  #507
Gear Maniac
 
Summer Of Nebula's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
@florian_anwander nice to see you post here! It was your series in KEYS magazine that got me hooked on synths.
and his (your) book made me understand them =)
Old 25th April 2018
  #508
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by florian_anwander View Post
...now I'd like to have a differentiating definition for "hooked on synths" vs. "modular addiction"
Hooked on synths: you buy lots of stuff, both hardwired and modular. The end stage is a giant studio filled with all kinds of stuff, often accompanied by paralysis - "what should I use? why isn't this receiving MIDI? why am I not hearing any sound? what do you mean the cat has been trapped in the cables for 3 days already"

Modular addiction: you start selling your non-modular synths to exclusively buy more modular stuff.
The end stage is a giant modular system and no hardwired synths anymore. You can only play one single note anymore, but what a note it is!

I kid, I kid
Old 25th April 2018
  #509
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
Hooked on synths: you buy lots of stuff, both hardwired and modular. The end stage is a giant studio filled with all kinds of stuff, often accompanied by paralysis - "what should I use? why isn't this receiving MIDI? why am I not hearing any sound? what do you mean the cat has been trapped in the cables for 3 days already"

Modular addiction: you start selling your non-modular synths to exclusively buy more modular stuff.
The end stage is a giant modular system and no hardwired synths anymore. You can only play one single note anymore, but what a note it is!

I kid, I kid
Pretty much, except in the modular end stage the notes play themselves while you sit back and ponder if you should reorganize the rack again.
Old 26th April 2018
  #510
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by florian_anwander View Post
...now I'd like to have a differentiating definition for "hooked on synths" vs. "modular addiction"
In opposition to for example "hooked on guitar".

I dont think anyone needs a definition for addiction.
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