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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 17th April 2018
  #361
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
When I started out as a musician I slept in abandoned buildings. I busked on the street (in winter) to get enough money to eat maybe twice a day.
Many musicians have been there.
This was the late 70’s when synths cost as much as a small car.
If you couldn’t afford a poly synth, you just made do without.
There has never been a cheaper time than now to acquire music tools, whether that’s Behringer Model D’s or Roland TR09’s or free/cheap music software.
And yet the race to own more and more stuff, while stuff is priced more snd more cheaply goes on.
Some poor sucker has to make this stuff, for very low wages. Someone has to mine those precious metals to make the semi-conductors and circuits.
Believe it or not It's not cheap for everyone mate,even now . From country to country ,the perception of poornes ( not sure that's a real word,lol) is really different.
An American when he says he is poor usually means they have a mediocre car and a lousy apartment .
A Latin American poor has to fight for a meal.
Just random examples ,not stereotyping.
Old 17th April 2018
  #362
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Noooo.
It was someone else who was crying poor.
My purpose in the thread?
Well it's just an open debate isn't it. Are Behringer going to be a force for good in the ~Eurorack world?

You say yes.
I say - I'm not sure, but based on past experiences, possibly not.
Funny how my stance causes people to misquote, mischaracterise and generally shoot me down.
Crying poor? Jesus man ,some manners for crying out loud.
Old 17th April 2018
  #363
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Seeing as I've been on the forum since the year it started you could probably stop telling me what to post, but yeah....
I have no problem with Behringer making affordable Eurorack cases. I have no problem with Behringer offering unique Eurorack modules at an affordable price. I have a problem with Behringer undercutting currently offered modules, just copying others with a cheap knockoff approach.
And there is form on this, as so far the only modules proposed by Behringer are cheap Roland knockoffs.
Your start date has zero to do with anything but apologies for “telling you what to post”


Im sure your worries will duly be noted and acted on. After I bought the cheap Roland knockoffs and a giant case of course
Old 17th April 2018
  #364
Here for the gear
 

Please no more clones or remakes, there are already tons of that both in hardware and in virtual.

Affordable Complex Math modules / Utility modules / Connectivity modules (CV I/O , ADAT, USB, interfacing to computer etc) , Waveshaping / Sample slicing / Digital multi FX modules

Also nice small form factor modular cases would'be welcome, specially if they are stackable in angles.

Thanks,
looking forward to see what you guys will come up with.
Old 17th April 2018
  #365
The thread of which I was hoping it would come!
Old 17th April 2018
  #366
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Roland 100M, when Roland themselves have that covered, as well as Frequency Central, Intellijel and System80.
So why haven't Frequency Central, Intellijel and System80 withdrawn their modules to avoid stepping on toes if the official Roland (Malekko?) modules are available?
Old 17th April 2018
  #367
Lives for gear
 
Hokut's Avatar
 

A lot of interesting comments, positive and negative but I feel like there is a bit of an over-reaction on the negative side.

I think this can be a positive development for the sector, could it be I am being over optimistic? Not sure but this is what I think.

About Behringer considering offering co-development and people saying this is not nice because 'WMD' already does something along those lines.
- I would have a hard time to find any other sector where there is only one company providing a service.
- I do not know the details, but I assume what Behringer and WMD would offer in terms of service/upfront costs/overall deal is going to be different, therefore opening more options for designers
- I assume there is only so much workload any individual service company can take on... more service-players will allow more designers to see a quicker realization of their ideas from design to physical products which in turn benefits the community with more of those original/alternative products


About the fear of Behringer damaging other Makers' businesses
- I am inclined to think otherwise. If Behringer was to serve the market with a number of affordable products (modules/cases/etc...) this should result in more people joining the eurorack modular community.

A bigger user-base will benefit everyone, users and all the current makers. As already mentioned by others, even those who may own mainly affordable modules... will want to top up their system with some more unique although more expensive modules from boutique makers.
And... with more users joining the eurorack community this may even mean more sales for those cool, smaller boutique makers we all love and want to keep producing unique products.

About Behringer basing some of their products on being remakes of old designs... There are a number of makers with products based on old designs, still, they all keep selling. This is, I believe, because
- each creative maker puts their own spin on it. Adding features not present in the original vintage unit
- each maker has a unique style including visual design of the module and unique way to present features, internal bussing, etc...
- each maker may use different components ending up with a different character at the output
- something more mass produced (e.g. from Behringer) may not offer custom options, quick turn around of spin-off variations, etc...
We all like different things in a product, therefore there will be customers for 'this' or 'that' maker


Also... Behringer has already released a couple of new synths that are no direct remakes... the Deepmind (inspired by... but not a remake) and the new Neutron.
The Deepmind has been out for a while and yes it does offer plenty features for a lower retail price BUT
- this did not put other big synth makers out of business
- this did not put other analogue 'smaller' synth makers out of business

By the way... I seem to remember Dave Smith Instruments and Elektron do make use of Behringer products to make their own gear... I think.

As a matter of fact, who knows... Behringer may even make it more affordable for other boutique eurorack makers to produce their modules supplying more readily available/affordable prices on components, parts, panels... it surely is a possibility

So, I don't see Behringer entering the Eurorack Modular market as the end... this could possibly be a boost creating a Phase 2 in the growth of the Eurorack System... making even easier for all the involved parties to focus on making more blips and blops sounds we all love ( jk about the blips and blops )

Last edited by Hokut; 17th April 2018 at 05:43 PM..
Old 17th April 2018
  #368
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoo View Post
So why haven't Frequency Central, Intellijel and System80 withdrawn their modules to avoid stepping on toes if the official Roland (Malekko?) modules are available?
Precisely.

Oooh let's protect these other guys making copies because we like those guys, but it's sooooo wrong for another company to come in and undercut the other copycats, can't have that.

AJH, as wonderful as their gear is, IS A COPY TOO, and they have no more right to it than anyone else. AJH being small, or they being the popular copycats, make ZERO difference, at all. It's still a freaking copy (in some cases, module by module, not the company as a whole).

Pure nonsense, asserting that sort of behavior by anyone is due some protection.
Old 17th April 2018
  #369
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoo View Post
So why haven't Frequency Central, Intellijel and System80 withdrawn their modules to avoid stepping on toes if the official Roland (Malekko?) modules are available?
Well they did their R&D and released the modules when people were crying out for the Roland, but Roland weren’t in the game.
Old 17th April 2018
  #370
Gear Maniac
If Behringer want to make Eurorack modules so what? If the price enables people to start into modular synthesis then that's a good thing isn't it? There are very few original modules in the sector - those that are seem to be digital based and very expensive. The majority of modules are tweaks to tried and tested circuits from the 70's. I honestly don't see how Behringer entering the market is a bad thing....unless your p*ssed off that more people can afford to join the club. As someone who spent £1000's on modular and filled the coffers of the boutique makers I say again that it's a GOOD THING.
Old 17th April 2018
  #371
Here for the gear
 

Look, I'm a MU user, so I don't have much of a dog in this, but what the heck... Uli asked.
I'd love to see some digital modules, and Musictribe's got the horsepower for this. An epic MIDI/USB>CV interface would be cool.
Something like a Nord modular would be pretty slick. Along the lines of the Roland Aira, but with ONE module that could be used as many, with something akin to the Toneprint editor. This is the kind of stuff that could potentially get me into building a eurorack case. Obviously, I'd prefer it in a full-size format, but I'd take what I could get.
Mini Model 15, etc., has no appeal for me. I've got that covered in MU, and it seems like most of that kind of thing is already covered in eurorack.
Old 17th April 2018
  #372
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
Precisely.

Oooh let's protect these other guys making copies because we like those guys, but it's sooooo wrong for another company to come in and undercut the other copycats, can't have that.

AJH, as wonderful as their gear is, IS A COPY TOO, and they have no more right to it than anyone else. AJH being small, or they being the popular copycats, make ZERO difference, at all. It's still a freaking copy (in some cases, module by module, not the company as a whole).

Pure nonsense, asserting that sort of behavior by anyone is due some protection.
its not about protectionism. maybe you're looking at it a bit too hard like some kind of survival of the fittest market knows best winner to the top thing?

when a company like behringer walks into the room, i think everything shakes. simple as that.

so there's room to work this modular field like a community rather than a competitor. that uli is soliciting feedback is a great step. happy to communicate.
Old 17th April 2018
  #373
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by millionmiles View Post
its not about protectionism. maybe you're looking at it a bit too hard like some kind of survival of the fittest market knows best winner to the top thing?

when a company like behringer walks into the room, i think everything shakes. simple as that.

so there's room to work this modular field like a community rather than a competitor. that uli is soliciting feedback is a great step. happy to communicate.
There might very well be a community amongst the DIY builders but the established brands are in competition with one another for your $. It might have seemed friendly because of the separate forums on Muffs, but these have got much quieter over the years as the market increased and the number of companies exploded. And MW is not as ubiquitous and influential in Modular as folk there think it is.
Old 17th April 2018
  #374
Lives for gear
 
Entrainer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleraptor View Post
And MW is not as ubiquitous and influential in Modular as folk there think it is.
What has greater influence?
Old 18th April 2018
  #375
I'd like to see a utility module that algorithmically generates ideas for Behringer products then creates threads about them where people make sweeping declarations like "Analog is a fad" and incessantly argue with one another.
Old 18th April 2018
  #376
Quote:
Originally Posted by smutek View Post
I'd like to see a utility module that algorithmically generates ideas for Behringer products then creates threads about them where people make sweeping declarations like "Analog is a fad" and incessantly argue with one another.
I think you're dangerously close to describing a thing called "gearslutz".
Old 18th April 2018
  #377
And you can get it as a plug out already....
Old 18th April 2018
  #378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleraptor View Post
If Behringer want to make Eurorack modules so what? If the price enables people to start into modular synthesis then that's a good thing isn't it? There are very few original modules in the sector - those that are seem to be digital based and very expensive. The majority of modules are tweaks to tried and tested circuits from the 70's. I honestly don't see how Behringer entering the market is a bad thing....unless your p*ssed off that more people can afford to join the club. As someone who spent £1000's on modular and filled the coffers of the boutique makers I say again that it's a GOOD THING.
There are a lot of original modules in Eurorack. That’s just about the main thing about the format.
I love the way people imagine they are ‘filling the coffers’ of others, therefore those others are legitimate targets for a take down.
I don’t think you’ll find a single ‘boutique’ module maker who is getting rich off Eurorack. Most are earning an honest average income. Many are doing it for less, as a second job out of passion.
But we don’t like to think we are screwing people who are low earners, doing something out of the love for the modular system, so we talk anout ‘filling their coffers’.
Old 18th April 2018
  #379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post
What has greater influence?
For my part-

DivKidVideo
Mylarmelodies
KenFluxwithit

Their interviews and extensive podcasts featuring modular makers sharing their design philosophies are probably some of the most interesting and profound bits on the subject. And their reviews aren’t half-bad either.

I don’t read muffs unless a search leads me there, and I honestly get more reliable info here in the modular subforum without all the cool-club groupthink that only perpetuates the negative stereotypes about modular. We don’t do that here.
Old 18th April 2018
  #380
The only time I go to Muffwiggler is to read actual user feedback on modules.
Actually, you only see bugs and issues being reported by users on Muff, never from the vloggers.
I do watch all the main vloggers too, and it is right to say they do post exhaustive and highly informative demos and tutorials
This forum has the potential to be deeply informative about modular, without the group-think that seems too infect Muffwiggler to some extent.
Old 18th April 2018
  #381
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post
What has greater influence?
As slaughtrhaus says above - You Tube demos - ModularGrid, and there's quite a few useful blogspots too. MW was helpful for me way back (the stickies for example), but too many things about the 'community' I find annoying actually - YMMV.
Old 18th April 2018
  #382
Lives for gear
 
Bhang's Avatar
 

The Boring But Necessary

I was very much hoping this would be the next step for Behringer!
I am very excited about the idea of affordable classic modules, however, the one module that I keep coming back to because of its high cost, lack of competition and importance for analyzing different signals is the Mordax DATA. More than any of these beautiful classic modules we need a great multi-channel Oscilloscope with X Y function and a nice screen. Mordax has a monopoly on this at the moment. While there are other options these options have tiny screens, and are only oscilloscopes. they really don't compare to the DATA.

Give Mordax a run for their money.
Old 18th April 2018
  #383
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
There are a lot of original modules in Eurorack. That’s just about the main thing about the format.
I love the way people imagine they are ‘filling the coffers’ of others, therefore those others are legitimate targets for a take down.
I don’t think you’ll find a single ‘boutique’ module maker who is getting rich off Eurorack. Most are earning an honest average income. Many are doing it for less, as a second job out of passion.
But we don’t like to think we are screwing people who are low earners, doing something out of the love for the modular system, so we talk anout ‘filling their coffers’.
Chrisso, I didn't mean to infer that all module makers make a fortune from the sale of Eurorack - having some DIY skills myself I know how labour intensive through hole builds are. If you are actually running a company and you're doing it to earn income to survive, I have the utmost respect for you running a small business in a very competitive and unpredictable industry...and B's entry into it will indeed be worrisome for many in your position. However, from an end user's point of view I feel that some of the makers have ripped the p*ss with their pricing. There's also no doubt in my mind that the whole Eurorack module thing feeds from and into a manipulation of consumerist frenzy. Ironic that I'm posting that here in GearSlutz, but at least GS is upfront about it!
Old 18th April 2018
  #384
BTW, I'm solely an end user. I have no connection with anyone making Euro modules at all. I agree, some module prices have gone through the roof. I just don't buy them.
Most of the really small guys, like Moffenzeef, Feedback and Future Sound Systems still price affordably, usually below $200. Those are the modules I tend to buy these days, or second hand from Muff or
Old 18th April 2018
  #385
Lives for gear
 
Entrainer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
For my part-

DivKidVideo
Mylarmelodies
KenFluxwithit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleraptor View Post
As slaughtrhaus says above - You Tube demos - ModularGrid, and there's quite a few useful blogspots too.
Cool, thanks for sharing those.
Old 18th April 2018
  #386
Here for the gear
 

A "Model D's Little Helper" would do well, as I bet many would love to have extra voices and features that extend the functionality of the unit.
Old 18th April 2018
  #387
Here for the gear
 

Please make powered Eurorack case! the would awesome.

Powered Eurorack cases are so expensive you could sell a boat load of them.
Old 18th April 2018
  #388
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Doepfer low cost cases are perfectly priced and no where near $700.

They are still quite expensive so if behringer make a cheaper Eurorack case I would definitely buy it.
Old 18th April 2018
  #389
Deleted User
Guest
I would encourage Behringer to create a slight variation on the Eurorack much like the Neutron and MS-20 are laid out,
whereby the cables are not occluding the controls you are trying to control.
Old 18th April 2018
  #390
Lives for gear
 
ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod Betamax View Post
I would encourage Behringer to create a slight variation on the Eurorack much like the Neutron and MS-20 are laid out,
whereby the cables are not occluding the controls you are trying to control.
What if a bunch of manufacturers adopted a breakout module format, where the patch points were on a separate module that you could situate elsewhere in your case?

You could always put it right next to the main module if that's what you like, or you could put all your breakouts in one consolidated area so they can be inter-patched without crossing over any of the controls.
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