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Behringer Eurorack Modular Modular Synthesizers
Old 16th April 2018
  #301
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
I have. But I forgive you for.. what ever you are sorry about.
You’ve tried them but didn’t know they all did pitch bend.....errr ok.
Old 16th April 2018
  #302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelis Da View Post
And the term "poor" has a different meaning than some rich countries' "poor".
I skipped too many meals (literally) just to get a vcf ,vco,psu,I don't care if you understand really and I hope you don't relate to all this ,but it is a reality for many many people.
When I started out as a musician I slept in abandoned buildings. I busked on the street (in winter) to get enough money to eat maybe twice a day.
Many musicians have been there.
This was the late 70’s when synths cost as much as a small car.
If you couldn’t afford a poly synth, you just made do without.
There has never been a cheaper time than now to acquire music tools, whether that’s Behringer Model D’s or Roland TR09’s or free/cheap music software.
And yet the race to own more and more stuff, while stuff is priced more snd more cheaply goes on.
Some poor sucker has to make this stuff, for very low wages. Someone has to mine those precious metals to make the semi-conductors and circuits.
Old 16th April 2018
  #303
Lives for gear
 
robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You’ve tried them but didn’t know they all did pitch bend.....errr ok.
Sure. Be a child.
Old 16th April 2018
  #304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
We want to collaborate with you

Since I opened this thread a few days ago, I have been approached by some of you and asked if we would consider to manufacture their design in return for a potential design fee.

I think this is a great idea and I truly believe in this vision. It will allow many of you who do not have the funds or experience to enter the market with your designs.

So, if you are a creative designer/developer/small company, we would like to invite you to collaborate with us for us to build modules together.

What does that mean?

You present is with your design (you need to have at least a working prototype) and perhaps show us a video etc. so we can understand your concept.

Provided you are OK with it, we could then post the video here and if there is enough interest, we would consider manufacturing and distributing the product for you. In return we would allow you to get a percentage of the revenue.

At the same time we would be featuring you and your designs so you get the well deserved exposure.

In short, we are willing to share our complete manufacturing, supply chain and marketing power with you, while you can focus on designing great modules. Of course we are more than happy to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) so you are protected.

What do you think?

Uli
Not sure what I think of this, actually. WMD has been providing such a service for some years now. If you really love synths, why would you want to threaten the business / business model of one of the major current innovators in the Eurorack scene?
Old 16th April 2018
  #305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepedeedoo View Post
I don't know if your comment is for me but... If it the case Is it possible to be polite ? Thank you and have a great day !
Sure

please thank you you’re welcome
Old 16th April 2018
  #306
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
When I started out as a musician I slept in abandoned buildings. I busked on the street (in winter) to get enough money to eat maybe twice a day.
Many musicians have been there.
This was the late 70’s when synths cost as much as a small car.
If you couldn’t afford a poly synth, you just made do without.
There has never been a cheaper time than now to acquire music tools, whether that’s Behringer Model D’s or Roland TR09’s or free/cheap music software.
And yet the race to own more and more stuff, while stuff is priced more snd more cheaply goes on.
Some poor sucker has to make this stuff, for very low wages. Someone has to mine those precious metals to make the semi-conductors and circuits.
Your purpose in this thread is to talk everyone out of buying behringer eurorack stuff because you had it hard in the 70s and now everythings made in sweatshops by suckers?

Hint, its not going to work
Old 16th April 2018
  #307
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
We want to collaborate with you

Since I opened this thread a few days ago, I have been approached by some of you and asked if we would consider to manufacture their design in return for a potential design fee.

I think this is a great idea and I truly believe in this vision. It will allow many of you who do not have the funds or experience to enter the market with your designs.

So, if you are a creative designer/developer/small company, we would like to invite you to collaborate with us for us to build modules together.

What does that mean?

You present is with your design (you need to have at least a working prototype) and perhaps show us a video etc. so we can understand your concept.

Provided you are OK with it, we could then post the video here and if there is enough interest, we would consider manufacturing and distributing the product for you. In return we would allow you to get a percentage of the revenue.

At the same time we would be featuring you and your designs so you get the well deserved exposure.

In short, we are willing to share our complete manufacturing, supply chain and marketing power with you, while you can focus on designing great modules. Of course we are more than happy to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) so you are protected.

What do you think?

Uli
Not sure what I think of this, actually. WMD has been providing such a service for some years now. If you really love synths, why would you want to threaten the business / business model of one of the major current innovators in the Eurorack scene?
I really don't understand the logic behind this kind of reasoning, should people who have the capacity to do something faster/cheaper or better not do it out of respect for people who already operate on a market? I do agree with some other speakers here that flooding the planet with cheap electronic gear might not be entirely favourable, but hoping for the market to take care of this problem, or the good will of individual manufacturers I think is naive. Without getting to bogged down in Marxist analysis I think it is fair to say that the market economy works by the logic of companies wanting to maximize profit. By all means do I think it is a good idea to regulate and restrict this force but this is achieved through politics. I guess what I mean is, to quote one of my favourite poets, Ice T; "Don't hate the playa, hate the game"!
Old 16th April 2018
  #308
Gear Nut
I hate to appear disrespectful, but if I were clever and creative enough to create a working prototype module, I would be very cautious about sharing the idea with a firm that has (until the Neutron) based it’s business model on ripping off lapsed IP, whether in terms of design, tonal quality, or visual resemblance. Clearly, when a business model is based on taking and using others ideas for profit, I would suggest caution in dealing with such a business, with much larger financial and legal resources.

Just saying this out of caution, as I think the idea of co-sharing profits and giving creators a platform is a fantastic idea and all credit to Uli for raising it. But I would like to think that creators will be protected and not pillaged for ideas. An NDA alone is not enough protection.
Old 16th April 2018
  #309
Here for the gear
 

Ableton link module. Best solution for collaborative live performance. Allows Eurorack rig to clock sync with other hardware rigs, iOS devices, computer Daws and instruments. Allows tempo changes from any user linked during performance.
Old 16th April 2018
  #310
Here for the gear
 

How do I join up?

I've already posted some detailed ideas on this thread. I would love to share another project proposal I've developed. How do I get in contact? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
We want to collaborate with you

Since I opened this thread a few days ago, I have been approached by some of you and asked if we would consider to manufacture their design in return for a potential design fee.

I think this is a great idea and I truly believe in this vision. It will allow many of you who do not have the funds or experience to enter the market with your designs.

So, if you are a creative designer/developer/small company, we would like to invite you to collaborate with us for us to build modules together.

What does that mean?

You present is with your design (you need to have at least a working prototype) and perhaps show us a video etc. so we can understand your concept.

Provided you are OK with it, we could then post the video here and if there is enough interest, we would consider manufacturing and distributing the product for you. In return we would allow you to get a percentage of the revenue.

At the same time we would be featuring you and your designs so you get the well deserved exposure.

In short, we are willing to share our complete manufacturing, supply chain and marketing power with you, while you can focus on designing great modules. Of course we are more than happy to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) so you are protected.

What do you think?

Uli
Old 16th April 2018
  #311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolthrast View Post
I really don't understand the logic behind this kind of reasoning, should people who have the capacity to do something faster/cheaper or better not do it out of respect for people who already operate on a market? I do agree with some other speakers here that flooding the planet with cheap electronic gear might not be entirely favourable, but hoping for the market to take care of this problem, or the good will of individual manufacturers I think is naive. Without getting to bogged down in Marxist analysis I think it is fair to say that the market economy works by the logic of companies wanting to maximize profit. By all means do I think it is a good idea to regulate and restrict this force but this is achieved through politics. I guess what I mean is, to quote one of my favourite poets, Ice T; "Don't hate the playa, hate the game"!
Well, apparently you haven't been following closely the development of the Eurorack ecosystem. Almost 6000 modules released by this point, and very few - if any - of the manufacturers in the "game" have been motivated by financial "profit" in a "market economy." In fact, that's exactly what's most interesting about Eurorack - rampant innovation in what is best characterized as an art market. I'm interested in seeing/hearing/supporting innovation; directly attempting to undercut established innovators will not increase innovation in the ecosystem. There's plenty of things Uli and company could do in the Eurorack space that wouldn't decrease innovation.
Old 16th April 2018
  #312
Lives for gear
 

The idea that the eurorack scene isn't about profit and such is a yuge exaggeration. Not that it lacks passion, but it's no hippie commune, it's no not for profit arena, it's an expensive niche market, not unlike bespoke men's suits, with loads of small batches of esoteric gear. That's it. It's no more fueled by pure altruistic notions or pure art than most anything else is. Some might feel it's that way or are projecting such, but let's not mistake that for reality.
Old 16th April 2018
  #313
Lives for gear
 
subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
The idea that the eurorack scene isn't about profit and such is a yuge exaggeration. Not that it lacks passion, but it's no hippie commune, it's no not for profit arena, it's an expensive niche market, not unlike bespoke men's suits, with loads of small batches of esoteric gear. That's it. It's no more fueled by pure altruistic notions or pure art than most anything else is. Some might feel it's that way or are projecting such, but let's not mistake that for reality.
I don't think anyone's arguing that it isn't for profit. Obviously people need to eat. It's more that modular in general (even 500 series) has supported DIYers whether through offering kits and DIY projects or people buying the DIY efforts of others. Some of those DIY efforts bring new brands into the market in a very organic and community driven way. Some of these brands get a foot hold in the market not because of manufacturing efficiencies or a louder marketing department but through great designs that are well received.

This is the culture folks are defending and the culture that has brought innovations in ways that are not possible when the only players are large multi-national corps. Personally I'm not seeing the huge threat with Uli and B getting involved that others do but I understand wanting to preserve the culture.
Old 16th April 2018
  #314
Here for the gear
 

I like the look of Behringer's take on the System 100 modules. However, the most useful product the company could unveil would be a 96 HP powered case that sells for $129 or less. A close second would be an affordable multi-channel MIDI to CV interface. These are important gateway drugs into eurorack world.

That said, the Neutron, Model D and Pro-One offer far more bang for the buck than Eurorack modules (even when those modules are priced in the $50-$100 range). I doubt I'll be building a Behringer modular system, but I am extremely excited to get my hands on their desktop units.
Old 16th April 2018
  #315
Lives for gear
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Our team has done renderings of potential Eurorack modules related to the legacy 100M system.

We believe we could produce them for around US$ 100 each, of course provided there is enough interest.

Some of you have rightfully pointed out that this is not a commercially viable market segment for any large manufacturer.
However since synthesizers are a huge passion of mine, this is a wonderful and personal journey to embark on projects that hopefully deliver some customer happiness and get more people into synths.

Uli
Uli, tell the boys or girls those modules look wonderful, i would suggest you do a module of the DM12 effects engine or similar. The effects available in Eurorack are beyond expensive for what little they offer IMO. I would think that direction would be of worth.

Of course how the engineers make the fx accessible via cv is the task
Old 16th April 2018
  #316
Here for the gear
Maybe ask on muffwiggler? That said a sequencers with these features would sell like hot cakes
- 64 steps
- 8 channels
- Each channel needs Gate/Pitch CV/Mod CV
- Then just copy cirklon or Elektron
Old 16th April 2018
  #317
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Your purpose in this thread is to talk everyone out of buying behringer eurorack stuff because you had it hard in the 70s and now everythings made in sweatshops by suckers?
Noooo.
It was someone else who was crying poor.
My purpose in the thread?
Well it's just an open debate isn't it. Are Behringer going to be a force for good in the ~Eurorack world?

You say yes.
I say - I'm not sure, but based on past experiences, possibly not.
Funny how my stance causes people to misquote, mischaracterise and generally shoot me down.
Old 16th April 2018
  #318
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
The idea that the eurorack scene isn't about profit and such is a yuge exaggeration. Not that it lacks passion, but it's no hippie commune, it's no not for profit arena, it's an expensive niche market, not unlike bespoke men's suits, with loads of small batches of esoteric gear. That's it. It's no more fueled by pure altruistic notions or pure art than most anything else is. Some might feel it's that way or are projecting such, but let's not mistake that for reality.
You're kind of twisting the argument against Behringer around.
Absolutely no one has suggested module makers do it for love, that it's not a business. Some people are concerned about protecting the small makers, the innovators, against an aggressive marketeer with the clout to make modules as a loss leader - just like Walmart.
Old 16th April 2018
  #319
Lives for gear
 
Entrainer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dysonant View Post
Maybe ask on muffwiggler?


The current state of the thread over there would suggest otherwise.
Old 16th April 2018
  #320
Lives for gear
 
Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You're kind of twisting the argument against Behringer around.
Absolutely no one has suggested module makers do it for love, that it's not a business. Some people are concerned about protecting the small makers, the innovators, against an aggressive marketeer with the clout to make modules as a loss leader - just like Walmart.
Innovators dont need protecting tho. Many of the small guys were just copying themself. It might turn out, that Behringer delivers better quality for less money. To me thats a good thing. MI, Malekko, Ladik, Doepfer wont be obsolete tho. Because they deliver for the money too.
Old 16th April 2018
  #321
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Noooo.
It was someone else who was crying poor.
My purpose in the thread?
Well it's just an open debate isn't it. Are Behringer going to be a force for good in the ~Eurorack world?

You say yes.
I say - I'm not sure, but based on past experiences, possibly not.
Funny how my stance causes people to misquote, mischaracterise and generally shoot me down.
Well I wasnt meaning to shoot you down or anything, but from the off you seem a bit negative about behringers offerings (from buying cases to sweatshop labour) yet are prolly the most prolific poster in the thread...

If they are bad for modular then they are bad for synths...but its a completely different thread (and my gawd we've heard the detractors elsewhere). Like their $300 monos (which verge on excellent so far) I think they only introduce more to the hardware world. But thats not what the thread was started for...its not a debate on the good or evils of behringer it was-

Quote:
Are you interested in Eurorack systems?
What modules would you like us to make?
What legacy modular systems would you like us to make?
What accessories do you require?
Im not going to fill 3 x 104hp with behringer....but with a mixture of manufacturers. I just dont want a huge initial outlay on the case (I filled my 90hp in a month). And thats why I answered my interest in cases.
Old 16th April 2018
  #322
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Brunori View Post
Moog (the Keith Emerson modular set + duophonic keyboard, it retails for 150K$
Can't be more than $200 of parts in there
Old 16th April 2018
  #323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Innovators dont need protecting tho.
How so?
They put in the hours of R&D.
They go out on a limb, investing their own money hoping people will like it and they'll recoup. Then a bigger outfit comes along, copies the idea and sells it more cheaply.
And by the way, I've seen it with my own eyes in a different area of equipment.
Old 16th April 2018
  #324
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
If they are bad for modular then they are bad for synths...
For me, so far, yes.
Old 16th April 2018
  #325
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
For me, so far, yes.
Ok, I can accept and understand your opinion on this...not sure why it has to be discussed in this thread though, you're opinion is hardly likely to stop behringer manufacturing modular synths. We’ve all heard (countless times in every behringer product thread) why some dislike them and/or their business practises.
Old 16th April 2018
  #326
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
How so?
They put in the hours of R&D.
They go out on a limb, investing their own money hoping people will like it and they'll recoup. Then a bigger outfit comes along, copies the idea and sells it more cheaply.
And by the way, I've seen it with my own eyes in a different area of equipment.
Thats why I only buy boutique cars
Old 16th April 2018
  #327
Gear Nut
 
Summer Of Nebula's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
How so?
They put in the hours of R&D.
They go out on a limb, investing their own money hoping people will like it and they'll recoup. Then a bigger outfit comes along, copies the idea and sells it more cheaply.
And by the way, I've seen it with my own eyes in a different area of equipment.
That's exactly how business worked since thousands of years. I am with you and do think that this is not very nice, but that's free market and free market is some of the most ****ed up things on the planet and pretty unhuman. A businessman though should know this and always be prepared to react on changes which can always happen.

Except the "copy" statement, because neither you nor me are fortune tellers (or are you?) and know if Behringer will copy some of those little innovator's stuff.

I don't get that strange resentment of some people in the synth world. Just look at things like an Urei 1176 or Teletronix LA-2A or Neuman U87 and so on ... Some of the most copied things in audio world but I never heard anybody crying because the copycats copied those hot cats.
Old 16th April 2018
  #328
No, but I mention it because many people in the thread are asking him to.
Old 16th April 2018
  #329
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Ok, I can accept and understand your opinion on this...not sure why it has to be discussed in this thread though, you're opinion is hardly likely to stop behringer manufacturing modular synths.
Since I've been into modular from the mid-90's....and over time I've ended up buying more of the niche modules from one person module makers, I care about it.
To see all these people who have never used modular cheering behringer on....well that's ok I guess, but it's also ok for me to voice my concern.
Old 16th April 2018
  #330
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post


The current state of the thread over there would suggest otherwise.
If you are going by quantity of responses, maybe, but definitely not quality.
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