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Everything Mixers (eurorack)
Old 28th September 2017
  #1
Everything Mixers (eurorack)

Hi, mixers is the one thing my setup is lacking. I sold all my Doepfer mixers except for one, which I gave a new OP275 chip to make it sound better.
Everything Mixers (eurorack)-screen-shot-2017-09-28-10.13.10am.jpg
I also have an MFB Drum-99 Mixer which is ok. But that's not enough.

I don't have a small mixer for playing live either, and ended up taking the Rane SM 26B on stage, which has a very heavy PSU and step down transformer. It also has no visual feedback or headphones out, so more suitable as a studio submixer/splitter. It DOES have a nice tone.

After hearing it I'm planning to get one of Joranalogue's mixers for audio signals, because it's small, sounds precise and distorts really well, and (if all goes well) I might be able to get the upcoming Befaco mixer this year, which has 6 channels, 3 aux and EQ on every channel. And visual feedback and HP output so it's suitable as (only) live mixer. But not sure yet what to do.

I'm still looking for one or two mixers for CV. Not sure to get a simple mixer, or combine attenuverters (±5V) with a voltage adder (unity mixer).

So, what mixers do you use? Maybe you can help me pick one. Maybe there's one I missed? Do you pick a mixer because of it's sound? Or is it just a blank tool for you? Do you use the same ones for audio and CV? Any unity mixers to combine gates or CV? Do you use a eurorack mixer, or a seperate external mixer? (I'm trying to cut back on the amount of machines to lug around with me.)
Attached Thumbnails
Everything Mixers (eurorack)-screen-shot-2017-09-28-10.13.10am.jpg  
Old 28th September 2017
  #2
Most modular mixers have no signature sound IMO.
The Doepfer ones are pretty good. I've heard the Manhattan Analog one is good, but I've never used it.
I have a few mixers, they are more like basic tools for me, mixing audio or cv modulation.
My main mixer is an old ADDAC (gold) one. It's really good. the sound quality is fine and it has cv over every channel, making it a VCA mixer. You can also use it to mix audio or cv. They no longer make it.
I just last week bought the small Future Sound Systems mixer. I mostly bought it because you can pump one output back into an input and create really nice distortion.
If I was looking for a mixer for live use, I'd rather have an outboard mixer, like a small Mackie.
I think Eurorack is small and fiddly enough without having to find mixer channels in the dark.
Old 28th September 2017
  #3
Here for the gear
 
joranalogue's Avatar
 

Even with so many mixer modules available, I couldn't find what I was looking for myself. That's why I designed Mix 3 (the module Reptil mentioned), which has three main differences:

- CV inputs, making it a 6 HP voltage controlled mixer. This can save a lot of space in small systems, as it already has 4 VCAs built-in.
- Audio indicator LEDs, so you can see what's going on in your patch, very useful during performance.
- Very low noise and distortion by using modern parts. A nice bonus is the symmetrical clipping - most Eurorack mixers sound crap if you overdrive them!
Old 28th September 2017
  #4
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ngarjuna's Avatar
I'm a big fan of the Moog-ish CP3 mixers. Personally I have the STG Soundlabs variant which I really love (Suit and Tie Guy makes great sounding kit) but some seem to prefer the Manhattan variant due to the jack placement. It's a sort of drive that just really fits in really well on a modular synth. And so many of my VCFs have mixers on board that I generally only reach for the mixer module if I want that sound (or to mix something elsewhere in the signal chain of course).
Old 28th September 2017
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarjuna View Post
I'm a big fan of the Moog-ish CP3 mixers. Personally I have the STG Soundlabs variant which I really love (Suit and Tie Guy makes great sounding kit) but some seem to prefer the Manhattan variant due to the jack placement. It's a sort of drive that just really fits in really well on a modular synth. And so many of my VCFs have mixers on board that I generally only reach for the mixer module if I want that sound (or to mix something elsewhere in the signal chain of course).
that sounds promising!
yeah STG makes quality stuff. I don't really get their envelope (too difficult for my poor reptilian brain I guess) but the rest, yes.

I found antother one (CP3) https://feedbackmodules.com/products/cp3-mixer

Also a DIY version of the Roland 100m system. Anyone use that? What colour? here
Old 28th September 2017
  #6
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Derp's Avatar
Another vote for the Manhattan CP3. I use it as more of an effect than a regular mixer, though. Drums sound magnificent when overdriven through it.

My 'main' mixer is a Blue Lantern BMX, and I can't recommend it. I like its feature set, but that's about the only good thing about it. It's mushy and kind of sounds like a really cheap Behringer mixer. It has a tone to it, and it's not a good one. I settle for it though because I just can't justify getting anything more expensive like a WMD. When I'm sample farming, I'll use the Doepfer QVCA when needed because it's much cleaner than the BMX. I've got the MFB Drum-99 as well, and I haven't dipped too deeply into it, but I've considered moving it to a more central position in the rack because it seems to sound better than the BMX. I wish it had aux send and returns like the BMX, but it's a pretty good one for summing. I've also got an Intellijel Unity Mixer, but I've only used it a handful of times. Same with the Zlob Attenumixer; can't speak on its character because it hasn't been used much yet.

If someone made something with the features of the BMX and the price of it, but not sound like mushy butts, I would be SO happy.
Old 5th October 2017
  #7
I use the WMD Performance mixer. It's very clean sounding and feature-packed. 2 auxes for running fx, mixbus for master fx. Cue for working on stuff while other stuff is going. Faders with cv control= 8 vcas. Meters. CV for pan. My 2 bus has the Audio Damage stereo Kompressor on it, makes for nice hot output to the Vermona Twinout for live.

I haven't really tried to drive the channels, that's not really how I work generally but I'll give it a shot and report back if it's worth it. This mixer strikes me as more the "supposed to be clean" type than the old school mackie style. And it is very loud and clean.

Bummers-
It's yuuuuuuuuge.
No eq anywhere.
No mutes without the expansion but I actually get why they did it now that I've used the mixer a lot. I'm definitely getting the mutes expander for its core functionality and the cv over six channels.

I think this mixer would have been damn near perfect if it had a few less channels but included mutes and eq. I am totally satisfied though. No buyers remorse in spite of the high price tag. I run 4 distinct voices, drum sub mix from Hot Glue, and use 2 channels for stereo effect returns for a little more control. And channel 8 is for monitoring external stuff (live bass and drums) diverted to the cue mix. I guess I need all the channels after all.

So all in all a great mixer, if you have the need, the $ and the HP.
Old 5th October 2017
  #8
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Derp's Avatar
What I'm really hoping for is that Behringer will step in for us. When the Model D clone thread started up, I posted about how quality mixers in Euro are low on features and high on price and implored him to consider giving us a Eurorack mixer that's adequately priced, full of features, and sounds good. There weren't many posts in that monster of a thread that he paid heed to (and who could blame him considering how huge that thread became), but he did give my post a like, so at the very least, it looks like he's aware there's a hole in the market that they could be able to fill.
Old 5th October 2017
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
What I'm really hoping for is that Behringer will step in for us. When the Model D clone thread started up, I posted about how quality mixers in Euro are low on features and high on price and implored him to consider giving us a Eurorack mixer that's adequately priced, full of features, and sounds good. There weren't many posts in that monster of a thread that he paid heed to (and who could blame him considering how huge that thread became), but he did give my post a like, so at the very least, it looks like he's aware there's a hole in the market that they could be able to fill.
Not trash talking...just saying that up front.

As the owner of several Berry mixers over the years, you are asking for too much IMO. Unless by "sounds good" you mean "performs adequately". Bland pre's, stale eq's, mushy sound...I thought you wanted to get away from stuff like that? The mixer you have now sounds like a Berry to me.

I use berry mixers when for monitoring rigs and things like that. As long as sound quality isn't at stake they are great pieces of utility gear though. This might sound snobby, but hey I use them for what they are good for, and have bought many over the years.

Pretty sure it will be a cold day in hell before I Berry my eurocase up with anything though, not gonna happen. Anything by Berry besides mixers have been a pretty big letdown for me. That D needs way more CV anyway, I'd never buy a voice with that little amount of control.

Now if Soundcraft (soundcraft of yore, I guess) got into Euro, I might get a little tingly over their offerings...Jim Williams please make a eurorack mixer, then we'd all be happy!
Old 5th October 2017
  #10
I hope he stays out of Eurorack.

There are some pretty good mixers already IMO.
But the more detail and the more features, the bigger they are.
I'd rather use an outboard mixer, like an old Mackie.

What we could with is more EQs.
The Serge Resonant EQ is great. I have the Trouby GDR EQ which is interesting.
I just ordered the FSS Gristleizer Pre-Amp which has bass, mid and treble.
Old 5th October 2017
  #11
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
Not trash talking...just saying that up front.

As the owner of several Berry mixers over the years, you are asking for too much IMO. Unless by "sounds good" you mean "performs adequately". Bland pre's, stale eq's, mushy sound...I thought you wanted to get away from stuff like that? The mixer you have now sounds like a Berry to me.

I use berry mixers when for monitoring rigs and things like that. As long as sound quality isn't at stake they are great pieces of utility gear though. This might sound snobby, but hey I use them for what they are good for, and have bought many over the years.

Pretty sure it will be a cold day in hell before I Berry my eurocase up with anything though, not gonna happen. Anything by Berry besides mixers have been a pretty big letdown for me. That D needs way more CV anyway, I'd never buy a voice with that little amount of control.

Now if Soundcraft (soundcraft of yore, I guess) got into Euro, I might get a little tingly over their offerings...Jim Williams please make a eurorack mixer, then we'd all be happy!
This is me trash talking: The Blue Lantern BMX sounds like crusty buttholes. I've had plenty of Behry mixers in the past, and I don't recall any of them sounding as bad as the BMX does. It's got all the features I want (though like Chrisso, I think it would be cool to get more EQ's). I think the worst sounding Behringer mixer I had was an MX3282A, and even that sounded better than the BMX. Behringer doesn't sound terrible (to me.) My biggest issue with Behringer has always been their build quality, but it looks like they've gotten that sorted out in recent years.

Regarding EQ's in Euro, there's a few of them out there, and some of them are pretty good. Feedback put out modules that emulate the EQ section of the Boss BX's not long ago. I've got two Zlob THEQ's that I love using (lots of character) and they're super cheap. EMW makes a very usable fixed band EQ that particular sees a lot of use shaping drum sounds. And the Mutable Shelves is the kind of EQ module that's almost too flexible given the insane range of that thing. Does a great job carving up a track, though. More is always better, though.
Old 5th October 2017
  #12
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I have the Trouby GDR EQ which is interesting.
Interesting in a good way, or a bad way? I see them on eBay all the time and am intrigued by the low cost.
Old 5th October 2017
  #13
Good way.
The EQ is fixed and each channel is a volume control (effectively).
So when you pass something through it, you can either build a realistic version with the EQ, or make nutty versions with only the top end, or only the bass, or only the mid-range.
It's quite soft (as opposed to the Serge Res EQ), but for the price it does some interesting things.
It isn't going to surgically correct something, or add sizzling Dub Reggae top end.
Old 5th October 2017
  #14
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Good way.
The EQ is fixed and each channel is a volume control (effectively).
So when you pass something through it, you can either build a realistic version with the EQ, or make nutty versions with only the top end, or only the bass, or only the mid-range.
It's quite soft (as opposed to the Serge Res EQ), but for the price it does some interesting things.
It isn't going to surgically correct something, or add sizzling Dub Reggae top end.
Grooveh. Thanks for the intel!
Old 11th October 2017
  #15
Gear Head
 
ZenPunkHippy's Avatar
Low Gain Electronics have some nice utility products, including SubMix6:

3 + 3 mixer, with attenuators, and outputs for A / A+B / B.

--]|-- Low-Gain Electronics --|[-- (search page)

I have this and a couple of format jumblers by them, all well built.
Attached Thumbnails
Everything Mixers (eurorack)-submix6_product_lg.jpg  
Old 12th October 2017
  #16
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mutilatedlip's Avatar
I've got the Manhattan Analog CP3 and I love it.

Just about to build a new case, and I notice it seems to have been replaced by the MA DTM. However, I thought the DTM was designed as a clean sounding mixer?

The Feedback CP3+ mentioned by Reptil looks great, and is a really good price to boot! Anyone got any experience with it??
Old 18th August 2018
  #17
What is the ideal number of channels/features desirable for a modular mixer?

Is more better?
Old 18th August 2018
  #18
It really depends whether you are making single sound patches or whole modular performances.
Old 21st August 2018
  #19
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
What is the ideal number of channels/features desirable for a modular mixer?

Is more better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
It really depends whether you are making single sound patches or whole modular performances.
What Chrisso said. If you're using a mixer to just mix oscillators, three or four channels is more than enough. If you're trying to perform in your mixer, then between six and eight channels is ideal.
Old 22nd August 2018
  #20
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void23's Avatar
Good old necro thread . First off, if you don't have a DTM / CP3 style mixer, drop everything and buy one now! They're just $99 so you have no excuse. It's a both a nice little mixer for stacking VCO's and a great effect for fattening things up.

Asides from that, I've burned through some smallish mixers in my time. I want, but just can't justify the HP for that big WMD or Befaco mixer. My favorite / most flexible mixer coming in at just 10hp is the Erica Black Mixer. Multiple stereo or dual mono inputs along with a mono channel with CV controlled panning. That one covers just about everything I need as long as I have summing VCAs and some CP3s to build out a pretty complex, multi-voice patch.

Levit8 is nice for handling audio and CV, but doesn't really do stereo. The Doepfer A-138s is an option for 8hp, but has less channels than the Erica and no CV pan control ... I use it as a drum sub-mixer.

Final thought is that I really don't even need the Erica, I could just route everything directly to a Mackie 1202VLZ. I'm just trying to minimize the amount of stuff I need to take out of the house to go to local euro jams at the cost of precious HP in my "performance" case.
Old 22nd August 2018
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
What Chrisso said. If you're using a mixer to just mix oscillators, three or four channels is more than enough. If you're trying to perform in your mixer, then between six and eight channels is ideal.
Thinking back to 98-03 my frac system had a 4 channel stereo mixer that I made myself and while the panning was nice for performance I always did feel constrained by 4 channels.
That old system had 2 VCOs, 3 VCFs, Ringmod, a quad VCA, Blacet Miniwave, Blacet Time Machine, Dual LFO, an audio quantizer and some other various mod sources including the Paia Midicv8.

Sometimes I would patch the VCAs inline with the mixer channels and control the levels via Midi.

I think more channels will be in order this time.
Old 22nd August 2018
  #22
For me, adding more and more elements to a single sound is over complicating and overworking. I often use one oscillator, or maybe two. When making complex drum emulations I might use up to three sound sources (including noise).
For single patches I find a 4ch mixer absolutely adequate.
I also have the Erica output module, which has 3 channels with mono and stereo output (panning on channel 3). Probably my favourite mixer is an old ADDAC 5 channel mixer with cv control.
Once you get into building entire performance patches you need multiple simple mixers and probably then one large mixer at the output stage (up to 8 channels?).
Old 22nd August 2018
  #23
DSC
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DSC's Avatar
Mixers are pretty custom to the way one works. The more I looked into what was available the more I wanted to make my own. If you study the makeup of the circuits you can be successful putting together what works for you, even for a specific sized case. Albeit you might want to customize them like I did. Here I used a few Circuit Abbey Unify's with expanders. I added mute buttons to the larger one and meters to both.



Old 22nd August 2018
  #24
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSC View Post
Mixers are pretty custom to the way one works. The more I looked into what was available the more I wanted to make my own. If you study the makeup of the circuits you can be successful putting together what works for you, even for a specific sized case. Albeit you might want to customize them like I did. Here I used a few Circuit Abbey Unify's with expanders. I added mute buttons to the larger one and meters to both.



Nice work as always. I'm completely jelly that you can just come up with an idea and have the skills to do all these mods.
Old 22nd August 2018
  #25
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
That old system had 2 VCOs, 3 VCFs, Ringmod, a quad VCA, Blacet Miniwave, Blacet Time Machine, Dual LFO, an audio quantizer and some other various mod sources including the Paia Midicv8.
I used to lust so hard for a Paia/Blacet system. I wish more of the old FracRack guys would move to Euro.
Old 22nd August 2018
  #26
The Blacet stuff was definitely interesting. I wasn't so mad about Paia.
Old 22nd August 2018
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSC View Post
Mixers are pretty custom to the way one works. The more I looked into what was available the more I wanted to make my own. If you study the makeup of the circuits you can be successful putting together what works for you, even for a specific sized case. Albeit you might want to customize them like I did. Here I used a few Circuit Abbey Unify's with expanders. I added mute buttons to the larger one and meters to both.



That looks awesome! Nice work!

I developed my own mixer recently for a synth project. It’s an 8 X 3 with attenuverting inputs and logic switched bus selection. I had to order a minimum of two PCBs from the boardhouse so I’m thinking of turning the extra into a stand-alone module.
The original application was for a 3 voice analog synth hence the 3 buses. The 3rd bus lends itself to mute/solo duties in a modular context or even an effects send. With the logic switching more possibilities suggest themselves with the use of a gate sequencer such as wave sequencing in a crude fashion.

I’ll have a similar situation with other PCBs I’m working on for the 3 voice project. I’ll also have leftover boards for a dual Synthacon VCF and a another which combines a VCA, a ringmod and a CP3 mixer on one board.
I’ll need to find a use for those extras too. Might as well be modules.
Attached Thumbnails
Everything Mixers (eurorack)-90d94311-578a-48a8-9165-1a50b02c331c.jpg  
Old 24th August 2018
  #28
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i was using 2 mix4s into a rosie, it was ok but could get super crowded in the mix real quickly

i'm using a blue lantern bmx right now, its better than the previous solution, it does get a bit crowded in the mix but not nearly as bad as before

looking at the roland 531 module now, i like that it has mutes built in, i don't really care about losing the sends from the bmx as i end up using fx directly all the time anyways, i like that the roland is small as well saving hp but looks laid out in a logical ergonomic way, i hope it sounds good

Roland - SYSTEM-500 531 | MIX
Old 25th August 2018
  #29
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Mixers to mix Oscillators, or individual Waveform outs pre-filter.

Mixers to mix multiple sources into a common FX unit.

Mixers to mix Mod Sources to make crazy new shapes.

Mixers to mix various audio like normal, whether voices or parallel processing.

Etc.

It's one area of Modular I definitely underestimated when getting started,.and feel like I'd like to have about 3x as much, and it adds up quickly.
Old 25th August 2018
  #30
Some modifiers have more than one input.
Like the Roland filters have three inputs for audio and three for CV.
The Jove filter has two inputs.
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