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The Modular Thread 2017 Modular Synthesizers
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2671
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justjools's Avatar
Really. How are you supposed to understand that? I start to lose track after about 12 cables and want to pull it out and start again (what I quite often do). Some steep insurmountable Everestian learning curve. I need a Sherpa guide!

CMOG808 — Überpatch of Richard Devine #eurorack #modular...
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2672
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Any thoughts on Circadian Rhythms? One just came up for a good price, but trying to justify it compared to all the other usual suspects I have (BSP, Abelton)
CR owner here. Honestly, a more sensible person should go with BSP. CR is nice if you want to keep it all in the rack, though. You do have to get used to doing a lot of shift functions with it. (Not literally a shift control, but say you want to clear a pattern, you need to hold the clear button and preset/group you want to clear, or to change what presets/groups do and don't loop, you have to hold down the loop controls and start selecting the presets/groups.) It's kind of weird to get used to because everything is eight steps, so the way around that is to loop presets together. Where it does get handy is that you can change the views to look at eight, sixteen, thirty-two, or sixty-four steps at a time, with the unused territory getting used for additional tracks it can fit in. (I.e. eight step view shows all eight channels at once, sixteen step gives you four tracks, and sixty-four will only show you one track.) One thing that's nice that I like about it over BSP is that chaining more than one pattern together is easier, and going for patterns longer than sixteen steps is fairly straightforward once you get your head around the preset/group system. So it's got its pluses compared to BSP, but I don't think it's worth the price compared to just doing BSP. Plus BSP gives you two full CV tracks to work with. If you're already used to BSP, just stick with it, you won't gain much with CR. About the only real benefit I can see is the pattern chaining (in essence, you can have patterns that are 512 steps long) and if you want to send some really nutty clock signals to and from it. Also if you've got some picky modules/envelopes, you can change a trigger to a gate by long-pressing the step buttons. Really, the only reason I don't sell my CR and get a BSP again is because I'm stubborn.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2673
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
Really. How are you supposed to understand that? I start to lose track after about 12 cables and want to pull it out and start again (what I quite often do). Some steep insurmountable Everestian learning curve. I need a Sherpa guide!

CMOG808 — Überpatch of Richard Devine #eurorack #modular...
Funny how the big rats nest of wires is concentrated over Maths. Not that I get to RD type complexity but my Maths is adjacent to URA and they get covered to the point where I can barely get at the knobs in a complex patch.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2674
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
Really. How are you supposed to understand that? I start to lose track after about 12 cables.


CMOG808 — Überpatch of Richard Devine #eurorack #modular...
Really, I doubt he understands it himself. When you're doing patches that crazy, you're usually starting out with a general idea or plan like how you want your clocks to go, and then it's just experimenting from there. Like "ooh, I could make more movement by sending this Maths output to this Mysteron input! Let's see how it sounds!"

This is interesting to look at. His current home modular is much bigger, but this is about the size of what he does shows with. Obviously I can't see what everything is, but I notice a low number of modulation sources. Like the only ones that are readily identifiable are the Quad LFO, Rene, and Maths. Also, it looks like he's using Trigger Man as his master clock. Someone made an observation a while back that in he has a suspicious amount of wave players, but in this older pic, the only thing he has that can play prerecorded audio is the Nebulae, and the number of CV inputs in use indicates that he uses it more as a mangler than as straight playback, so that statement is kind of debunked here. Since all of the outputs on the Trigger Man and nearly all of the outputs on the Quad Clock Distributor are in use, but there isn't much for envelopes in this rig, this tells me that most of his sound is just about getting other things to trigger at interesting times.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2675
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
One thing that's nice that I like about it over BSP is that chaining more than one pattern together is easier, and going for patterns longer than sixteen steps is fairly straightforward once you get your head around the preset/group system.
Pattern chaining on the BSP is basically useless. It was a total afterthought. There's no way to save the chain. I have a little note book I keep beside the modular to "save" any interesting chains which means reentering the sequences in order every time the master sequence is changed. That said I love my BSP. I don't think there's anything else out there that would let me play the modular with big rubber MPC style pads without having to deal with MIDI.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2676
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justjools's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by subdo View Post
Pattern chaining on the BSP is basically useless. It was a total afterthought. There's no way to save the chain. I have a little note book I keep beside the modular to "save" any interesting chains which means reentering the sequences in order every time the master sequence is changed. That said I love my BSP. I don't think there's anything else out there that would let me play the modular with big rubber MPC style pads without having to deal with MIDI.
There is something really nice about the feel of playing rubber pads on the BSP rather than a keyboard. Some I don't like though - I never liked the hard pads of Push and didn't get on with it so eventually got rid of it. I generally prefer keyboard than playing with sequencers but the BSP I do like for feel and functionality.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2677
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apropos of noth's Avatar
 

I usually think of mymore complicated patches in terms of meta-models and meta-modulators. I know that my patch is designed to do [this thing]. I know that [these 1-5 controls] are the meaningful ones within the patch. When I've built a complicated patch and I loose track of what things are doing what, it means that I need to pull all my cables and start again.

(This is all one of the reasons the usual advice about modular is to start slow and build. Having a good conception of why I purchased what I did, and what its parameters and workings are allows me to build much more complicated things than I would be able to using somebody else's system, e.g. It's also the reason I generally insist on modules on which I can deduce state based solely on front panel connections and settings--if I have a patch that is semi-complicated and it involves menu-divey, fuggeddaboutit.)
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2678
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Question for you guys, I'm looking for a trigger to gate converter. Especially something that where the gate length would be configurable based on clock input. Sounds like the sort of thing Doepfer would make, but I haven't come across anything yet.

Won't the old Doepfer A-142 VC Decay/Gate do it?

edit - I see you have found a MATHS solution.

Last edited by MindMachine; 3rd April 2017 at 09:43 PM..
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2679
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Really, I doubt he understands it himself. When you're doing patches that crazy, you're usually starting out with a general idea or plan like how you want your clocks to go, and then it's just experimenting from there. Like "ooh, I could make more movement by sending this Maths output to this Mysteron input! Let's see how it sounds!"

This is interesting to look at. His current home modular is much bigger, but this is about the size of what he does shows with. Obviously I can't see what everything is, but I notice a low number of modulation sources. Like the only ones that are readily identifiable are the Quad LFO, Rene, and Maths. Also, it looks like he's using Trigger Man as his master clock. Someone made an observation a while back that in he has a suspicious amount of wave players, but in this older pic, the only thing he has that can play prerecorded audio is the Nebulae, and the number of CV inputs in use indicates that he uses it more as a mangler than as straight playback, so that statement is kind of debunked here. Since all of the outputs on the Trigger Man and nearly all of the outputs on the Quad Clock Distributor are in use, but there isn't much for envelopes in this rig, this tells me that most of his sound is just about getting other things to trigger at interesting times.
I think it looks like a rat's nest because he is using long cables...If he had shorter cables it would look faaaaar cleaner.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2680
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justjools's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by apropos of noth View Post
I usually think of mymore complicated patches in terms of meta-models and meta-modulators. I know that my patch is designed to do [this thing]. I know that [these 1-5 controls] are the meaningful ones within the patch. When I've built a complicated patch and I loose track of what things are doing what, it means that I need to pull all my cables and start again.

(This is all one of the reasons the usual advice about modular is to start slow and build. Having a good conception of why I purchased what I did, and what its parameters and workings are allows me to build much more complicated things than I would be able to using somebody else's system, e.g. It's also the reason I generally insist on modules on which I can deduce state based solely on front panel connections and settings--if I have a patch that is semi-complicated and it involves menu-divey, fuggeddaboutit.)
I understand by what you mean as meta, as combining things you know. That's a useful way of thinking but I'm not there yet. I've just started looking at ways to use VCA's and need to concentrate on doing simple subtractive type patches [is there a simple beginners patch book?], a bit at a time until I can understand this. I need to make things simpler as when I start thinking its becoming overwhelming I want to stop which is not conducive and not why I got into it in the first place. I just only want to make nice sounding voices. I was thinking just yesterday how great the Mopho desktop is for such a small synth and what it can do, and surely a eurorack is capable of being that versatile, I don't understand that yet though. I did the first bass patch that I thought was good, and I had imagined I could do at the weekend using VCA's which makes all the difference. So much dedication needed but I'm going to stick with it as I feel it's starting to come, but often I think it's so much easier composing with standalone synths and midi and that I'm wasting my time learning and not composing, and this feels sometimes frustrating.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2681
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
Really. How are you supposed to understand that? I start to lose track after about 12 cables and want to pull it out and start again (what I quite often do). Some steep insurmountable Everestian learning curve. I need a Sherpa guide!

CMOG808 — Überpatch of Richard Devine #eurorack #modular...
That's not that bad. I couldn't imagine stopping at about a dozen cables. I probably have about 75 patch cables and am getting to the point where I'm starting to run of cables again with the new additions to the rack.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2682
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
I think it looks like a rat's nest because he is using long cables...If he had shorter cables it would look faaaaar cleaner.
I think it'd still look pretty messy though, regardless of cable length. Notice how most of those modules are in use and the modules have multiple CV jacks and outputs being occupied by cables. That is one conflagrated patch!
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2683
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justjools's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
That's not that bad. I couldn't imagine stopping at about a dozen cables. I probably have about 75 patch cables and am getting to the point where I'm starting to run of cables again with the new additions to the rack.
I've gone to the dark side ... 12u of modular mayhem.

Nice rack. You could probably only say that in modular world innocently

https://twitter.com/Will___Ferrell/s...12653485023232
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2684
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
I've gone to the dark side ... 12u of modular mayhem.

Nice rack. You could probably only say that in modular world innocently

https://twitter.com/Will___Ferrell/s...12653485023232
Reminds me that I need to update my sig.
Old 4th April 2017
  #2685
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justjools's Avatar
This looks useful. I actually found this from a link on Brian Eno's twitter account - probably not written by him though I expect. Not the complete book but a few patches to try on p.22/57.

http://synthesizer-cookbook.com/SynCookbook.pdf
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Old 4th April 2017
  #2686
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
This looks useful. I actually found this from a link on Brian Eno's twitter account - probably not written by him though I expect. Not the complete book but a few patches to try on p.22/57.

http://synthesizer-cookbook.com/SynCookbook.pdf
That was some nice light reading
Old 4th April 2017
  #2687
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
This looks useful. I actually found this from a link on Brian Eno's twitter account - probably not written by him though I expect. Not the complete book but a few patches to try on p.22/57.

http://synthesizer-cookbook.com/SynCookbook.pdf
Great book for getting started in synthesis!
Old 4th April 2017
  #2688
Since it looks like I'm stuck at 6U for the time being (the 12U cases I want are just way too expensive) I've been slowly but surely refining my module selection to get the most out of the space that I have for live performances. The only other thing I want to temporarily swap out is my Mutable Instruments Elements for the 4MS SMR.

Thanks to birthday money, I also finally got the Tiptop Audio Mantis case, so it will be easier to carry (locally at least) than what I had before. This is just a quick video test to ensure everything powers on (I wish Gearslutz had Instagram embedding):

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSclgvvB...aken-by=genshi

And a photo of the setup...
Attached Thumbnails
The Modular Thread 2017-my_eurorack_mantis_case.jpg  
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Old 4th April 2017
  #2689
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built the 168hp case.


it was a 168hp rail from tip top
it's got 168 screw holes, but the rail is at least 1hp wider. now I'll have room for that odd hp...

is the morphogene shipping? now I'll have room for it.
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Old 4th April 2017
  #2690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Since we're on the subject of TRS cables and such, does anyone know if those stereo aux cables for phones and automobiles work in a modular environment? Since the splitters @Accent work, the end to end TRS cables should work as well, right? If they do, then I just hit the motherload concerning a cheap source for cables!

not all manufacturers put the ground contact at the same place
Some could have the ground touching the ring of a TRS, expecting a TS, while others come in contact with the sleeve. In those cases you wouldn't have any ground contact between the two modules. You'd have to find a way to short the ring and the ground on all those cables.

and in the case with the two rings, short both rings with the sleeve.
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Old 4th April 2017
  #2691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subdo View Post
Funny how the big rats nest of wires is concentrated over Maths. Not that I get to RD type complexity but my Maths is adjacent to URA and they get covered to the point where I can barely get at the knobs in a complex patch.
how can you see a maths in all that?
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Old 4th April 2017
  #2692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
BlackWavetableVCO is a great module. keep enjoying it.
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Old 4th April 2017
  #2693
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Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Also, it looks like he's using Trigger Man as his master clock.
Strangely in sync with this thread, I was watching a few Richard videos yesterday and it was mentioned he'd moved from the triggerman to circadian rhythm now... Also in these vids, he's velcro'd up the spaghetti to make things a bit clearer...


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Old 4th April 2017
  #2694
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
Since it looks like I'm stuck at 6U for the time being (the 12U cases I want are just way too expensive) I've been slowly but surely refining my module selection to get the most out of the space that I have for live performances. The only other thing I want to temporarily swap out is my Mutable Instruments Elements for the 4MS SMR.

Thanks to birthday money, I also finally got the Tiptop Audio Mantis case, so it will be easier to carry (locally at least) than what I had before. This is just a quick video test to ensure everything powers on (I wish Gearslutz had Instagram embedding):

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSclgvvB...aken-by=genshi

And a photo of the setup...
Not necessarily for you Genshi, but if you started with the HEK route, this is the best case I've found if you're looking for something simple to gig with ...

https://www.thomann.de/gb/thon_19_koffer_6_he.htm

It'll take two weeks to get the the US, but for ~$100, you can't beat it.
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Old 4th April 2017
  #2695
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oinkbanana View Post
BlackWavetableVCO is a great module. keep enjoying it.
So said they all. (yes, I have one too).
Old 4th April 2017
  #2696
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by butter View Post
Strangely in sync with this thread, I was watching a few Richard videos yesterday and it was mentioned he'd moved from the triggerman to circadian rhythm now... Also in these vids, he's velcro'd up the spaghetti to make things a bit clearer...


Seeing both Devine's and Bender's rigs got me GaSing for the Circadian and thus my questions. I ended up passing though with one at $450.
Old 4th April 2017
  #2697
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Hokut's Avatar
 

Anyone ordering the Folktek Mescaline system on indiegogo?


https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/f...g/x/16039422#/

I ordered a Copper full system. Estimated release not far, July 2017.
This should complement my current setup well, I have nothing currently from Folktek or of the same type.

One issue I had against getting it was the 44hp per module (3 modules system) but the full systems comes with a 'stand alone metal frame' that holds it al up like in the picture above. So if I need to reclaim those HPs for other modules I can always take these 3 out and use the metal frame as a stand alone unit.

BTW, they have sold 340 full systems so far, and this is what they say about their 350 stretch goal:
"If we sell 350, we'll add the effect control as well as 4 total custom DSP effects to Channel which will take the synth to another level sonically and allow it to be a very powerful effects processor for external sound as well."

10 more and they will reach 350.

Anyone else already ordered one or thinking to order one?

Last edited by Hokut; 4th April 2017 at 11:02 AM..
Old 4th April 2017
  #2698
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justjools's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by subdo View Post
That was some nice light reading
Yes, unfortunately I couldn't find the complete one but edition 1 and 2 are available on ebay. If I find it I will share.

Can anyone recommend any other good patching books?

I found some good stuff here.

Doepfer manual with patch examples
http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/A1301_man.pdf

Gearslutz list. I just had a look at the Roland 100m as below which has easy to follow patch diagrams.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...n-patches.html

Practical Synthesis for Electronic Music (Roland 100m System books)

The ARP 2600 Manual: Good explanations on synthesis...

The complete guide to synthesizers Devarahi

Electronic Music - Systems, Techniques, and Controls by Allen Strange

The Book of Bad Ideas

http://thesnowfields.com/manuals.html
Old 4th April 2017
  #2699
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justjools's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Since we're on the subject of TRS cables and such, does anyone know if those stereo aux cables for phones and automobiles work in a modular environment? Since the splitters @Accent work, the end to end TRS cables should work as well, right? If they do, then I just hit the motherload concerning a cheap source for cables!

I was using one as a patch cable with BSP and worked fine. That's a good point this would be considerably cheaper than using mono cables.
Old 4th April 2017
  #2700
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
Yes, unfortunately I couldn't find the complete one but edition 1 and 2 are available on ebay. If I find it I will share.

Can anyone recommend any other good patching books?

I found some good stuff here.

Doepfer manual with patch examples
http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/A1301_man.pdf

Gearslutz list. I just had a look at the Roland 100m as below which has easy to follow patch diagrams.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...n-patches.html

Practical Synthesis for Electronic Music (Roland 100m System books)

The ARP 2600 Manual: Good explanations on synthesis...
Modular-Planet

The MS-20 Mini manual has a number of patch examples that I guess could be used with a modular.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93120
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