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The Modular Thread 2017 Modular Synthesizers
Old 2nd April 2017
  #2641
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Question for you guys, I'm looking for a trigger to gate converter. Especially something that where the gate length would be configurable based on clock input. Sounds like the sort of thing Doepfer would make, but I haven't come across anything yet.
Maths
Old 2nd April 2017
  #2642
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
Maths
Patch example? An envelope generator won't do quite what I'm looking for (at least I haven't been able to rig it up yet). Specifically, I've got a trigger coming out of Grids or Frames and what to hold it for say, a sync'd quarter note.
Old 2nd April 2017
  #2643
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Patch example? An envelope generator won't do quite what I'm looking for (at least I haven't been able to rig it up yet). Specifically, I've got a trigger coming out of Grids or Frames and what to hold it for say, a sync'd quarter note.
Something expecting a gate is just expecting an upward slope of voltage, and once it crosses a specific voltage, it thinks the gate is on. Same with the end of the gate, it's expecting a downward slope of voltage, and once it crosses a specific voltage, it thinks the gate is off. We think of gates as squares or pulses with instantaneous increases and decreases, but a gate doesn't necessarily have to be that.

Having said that, take your trigger into Trigger In on Ch 1 or 4. Set Rise to 0 on that channel so the gate kicks in instantaneously. The use the Fall knob or Lin/Exp knob (or a combination of both) to set the end of the gate based on whatever you're sending the gate to. You can either take the unity out of that channel or the channel out in the mixer outputs on Maths - remembering to adjust the attenuverter knob if you take the channel out jack. Now, pass in CV into the Fall item's CV in knob to CV control the end of the gate at different times. As a test, I just did that with Ch1 of my Maths creating the gate, passing the out of Ch1 to Ch4's input, then using Ch4 as an envelope to control a filter's cutoff and VCA's amplitude.

You'll have to play with it a bit to get Maths to output the falling voltage at the level expected by the next item. Once you find it, you should be good to go.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2644
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarjuna View Post
Just as an example from one of the patches posted above:
I wanted to throw S&H CV rhythmically at the filter cutoff. So I got that all set in where I wanted it, froze the S&H sequence (<3 Octocontroller!) and scaled it up. But then it occurred to me: how much extra special sauce would there be if, instead of just applying that CV to the cutoff, I was to ramp it a bit each bar so that it breathes rhythmically a tad. So put the S&H CV into a VCA, get a ramp LFO, bias it to a starting point I like and adjust.
Wow. i never think in such subtle terms with my patches... Food for thought. I just want to bang out choons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Bass is the Omikron going through the Aperture. EMW Alias is doing a simple, sub-bass drone on the root note. Wooglebug is doing the 8th note clang. The wierd sample thing is one of the Radio Music Nagra loops coming out the Disting Mk4 going through Clouds and then gated with a Doepfer A-150 (reminded me of some of the Emu factory sounds). Sequence is changed using a Disting Mk3 in precision adder mode and quantized by an O_c. Additional drum are from an Analog Rytm.
So 11 things going on not "just 2" lols!


And here is a little something I did a month or so back. Sick and tired of the 5 months and counting renovations in the house. Not having a place to do music and so I just got out my Sh101 and Tr606 and a delay pedal and had a play...
So very very sorry about the clipping from the kick. I really wasn't watching my levels... Funny...I have an entire room full of gear and these 2 bits of kit just make such beautiful noise together...And I was satisfied.

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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2645
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I totally get the 'never have enough VCA' thing, I picked up a intellijel quad VCA this week (now I have 10)
but you can also "never have enough LFO", so i grabbed a Batumi at the same time.

but seriously, you really can't have enough LFO, so when the Octocontrollers hit the stores again I'll definitely get two of those
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2646
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Modulating the modulators, hmmm never really thought about that tbh, I like to use attenuated lfo's a lot for movement and simply patch them in directly when ever I want something to breathe or move..
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2647
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I like to envelope my LFO's. let that modulation come in and out.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2648
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oinkbanana View Post
I like to envelope my LFO's. let that modulation come in and out.
sending an attenuated lfo into a gate input would have the same affect as a modulating a vca wouldn't it..?
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2649
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
Wow. i never think in such subtle terms with my patches... Food for thought. I just want to bang out choons!



So 11 things going on not "just 2" lols!


And here is a little something I did a month or so back. Sick and tired of the 5 months and counting renovations in the house. Not having a place to do music and so I just got out my Sh101 and Tr606 and a delay pedal and had a play...
So very very sorry about the clipping from the kick. I really wasn't watching my levels... Funny...I have an entire room full of gear and these 2 bits of kit just make such beautiful noise together...And I was satisfied.

they were made for each other weren't they, I kinda always wanted a real 606 just to hook up to the 101 yours both look in very good condition...you gotta get that kick to sound dead and flat though, the key with the 606 kick is to not have it pounding or loud, just a dull flat knock..knock knock knock..let the hats do all the work.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2650
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Modulating the modulators, hmmm never really thought about that tbh, I like to use attenuated lfo's a lot for movement and simply patch them in directly when ever I want something to breathe or move..
Speaking of "modulating the modulators" I think I posted this awhile back, but here it is again. Just two Modules, Batumi Modulating itself into Audio Rate range and going into Clouds which is also being modulated by Batumi.



And speaking of Attenuators, what happened to the RYO AIRTENUATOR? I haven't been able to find them anywhere for the longest time. Anyone have insight on what happened? Did they stop making them? I was all set to get a couple of these for my small system (don't have the HP from for a proper attenuator module.)

Also, I guess everyone missed my post a few pages back (because this thread flies fast and furious!) asking about Rabid Elephant's Knobs. Not many videos on it. Anyone here have experience with that module?
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2651
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drxcm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
sending an attenuated lfo into a gate input would have the same affect as a modulating a vca wouldn't it..?
No not really - the gate input tends to have comparator to determine the threshold at which it triggers. If the LFO is attenuated low the envelope would not trigger. If above the threshold it will. So this is a binary outcome rather than a continuous one.


I love modulating the modulator with a vca in the path.

Favourites of mine:

LFO into VCA in. VCA out into pitch CV. Envelope into VCA CV
LFO into VCA in. VCA out into pitch CV. Slow sine LFO into VCA CV

Dialled in nice and subtle these give great movement that comes and goes.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2652
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cane creek's Avatar
 

Div Kid has certainly made the WMA performance mixer look tempting, it's just the price that's putting me off.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2653
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Anyone here care to comment on the MFB drum modules? (esp the drum-7 (hats/cymbals) and 8 (clap))

On paper they look pretty good with a lot of CV control compared to e.g. tiptop stuff, but it does make them pretty HP hungry and MFB does have a somewhat dubious reputation for quality - although in my experience its more been a case of feeling cheap rather than any actual problems. Of course its mostly about the sound, so also wondering if they can get pushed into weird territory, or if they always sound as labelled?

Thanks

[always baffled as to why manufacturers can't just put up a simple demo ]
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2654
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
sending an attenuated lfo into a gate input would have the same affect as a modulating a vca wouldn't it..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drxcm View Post
No not really - the gate input tends to have comparator to determine the threshold at which it triggers. If the LFO is attenuated low the envelope would not trigger. If above the threshold it will. So this is a binary outcome rather than a continuous one.
Not only that, because the gate input has a comparator, you're losing the LFO shape once the LFO CV has passed the comparator level.

If you have a sin/triangle LFO that maxes out at +/- 3V and the gate needs + +1.8V to trigger the gate start/end, you're going to lose the curved part of the sin/triangle from 1.8V to 3V. Same with a saw/ramp - you'd lose the slow increase or decrease in the shape.

Think of a gate input jack as generating a square wave. A sine wave that starts at time = 0 is at 0 V, maxes out at +5V after 1 second. Throwing it into a gate, expecting 2.5V for the gate to trigger will generate the rising edge of the square at about .5 seconds - once the sin wave reaches 2.5V. (about half the time it takes to reach the max voltage of 5V) At about 1.5 seconds, the sin wave will be at 2.5V again, (about half the time it takes to go from max voltage of 5V at 1 second back down to half the voltage of 2.5V) this time going down, so the gate ends at that point. If the gate input is attached to an AR envelope generator, attack starts at .5 seconds and release kicks in at 1.5 seconds.

Essentially, you're just taking your LFO and generating envelope modifier(s) by passing an LFO into the gate input of an envelope generator. There's no attenuation or modulation of the LFO signal at all.

If you have an oscilloscope or scope plugin on your DAW along with ES stuff or DC-coupled inputs on your interface, you should be able to look at the shapes in these scenarios.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2655
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
Something expecting a gate is just expecting an upward slope of voltage, and once it crosses a specific voltage, it thinks the gate is on. Same with the end of the gate, it's expecting a downward slope of voltage, and once it crosses a specific voltage, it thinks the gate is off. We think of gates as squares or pulses with instantaneous increases and decreases, but a gate doesn't necessarily have to be that.

Having said that, take your trigger into Trigger In on Ch 1 or 4. Set Rise to 0 on that channel so the gate kicks in instantaneously. The use the Fall knob or Lin/Exp knob (or a combination of both) to set the end of the gate based on whatever you're sending the gate to. You can either take the unity out of that channel or the channel out in the mixer outputs on Maths - remembering to adjust the attenuverter knob if you take the channel out jack. Now, pass in CV into the Fall item's CV in knob to CV control the end of the gate at different times. As a test, I just did that with Ch1 of my Maths creating the gate, passing the out of Ch1 to Ch4's input, then using Ch4 as an envelope to control a filter's cutoff and VCA's amplitude.

You'll have to play with it a bit to get Maths to output the falling voltage at the level expected by the next item. Once you find it, you should be good to go.
Thanks, that worked. Once again, Maths seems to do everything.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2656
Gear Addict
 
apropos of noth's Avatar
 

I feel like I actually have enough VCAs at this point. (Malekko dual, Doepfer dual-linear, MakeNoise LxD, Planar, Manhattan Analog MA-35, plus the ones on my standalones--MS-20 [2], Health Club.)

I could use more sequential switches, mults and mixers though.
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2657
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
Speaking of "modulating the modulators" I think I posted this awhile back, but here it is again. Just two Modules, Batumi Modulating itself into Audio Rate range and going into Clouds which is also being modulated by Batumi.



And speaking of Attenuators, what happened to the RYO AIRTENUATOR? I haven't been able to find them anywhere for the longest time. Anyone have insight on what happened? Did they stop making them? I was all set to get a couple of these for my small system (don't have the HP from for a proper attenuator module.)

Also, I guess everyone missed my post a few pages back (because this thread flies fast and furious!) asking about Rabid Elephant's Knobs. Not many videos on it. Anyone here have experience with that module?
Synthcube has pcbs for the RYOs.

Last edited by T-Verse; 27th April 2017 at 10:03 PM..
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2658
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
Div Kid has certainly made the WMA performance mixer look tempting, it's just the price that's putting me off.
Ditto on that. I could use a new stereo mixer, but gawd, that's pricey. When I was buying up MFB Drum modules, I grabbed their mixer. I've only used it on drums thusfar, but I probably ought to try it with synth sounds and stuff to see if it screws up the quality the way the Blue Lantern does. No aux sends and returns like the BMX and the WMD Mixer, but it would be nice to get a clean stereo mix.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2659
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by butter View Post
Anyone here care to comment on the MFB drum modules? (esp the drum-7 (hats/cymbals) and 8 (clap))

On paper they look pretty good with a lot of CV control compared to e.g. tiptop stuff, but it does make them pretty HP hungry and MFB does have a somewhat dubious reputation for quality - although in my experience its more been a case of feeling cheap rather than any actual problems. Of course its mostly about the sound, so also wondering if they can get pushed into weird territory, or if they always sound as labelled?

Thanks

[always baffled as to why manufacturers can't just put up a simple demo ]
Lol, guess I should have read this before responding to Cane. I recently got the Kick, Snare, and Hats/Cymbal modules. Hats and Cymbals are pretty bog standard. Can't really get weird with that one. Very high quality though. If you've ever heard a 522 or a Schlagzwerg, it's the exact same circuit for the cymbals and hats. The kick and snare modules can be pushed into some unusual places. I've actually pulled a decent kick from the snare module and a big snare from the kick module. They can get really weird when you start running audio rate modulation into them. These are the same modules as are in the Schlagzwerg. In fact...

Here's a demo I did with the Schlagzwerg many years ago when it first came out.


The Schlagzwerg is basically just a bunch of the drum modules put into one unit. I sold it because the MIDI on it was just terrible (each drum gets its own channel, which just doesn't work with my workflow), but the sounds themselves were awesome. I don't push it too hard into weird territory because that wasn't I was after when I had this thing, but this should give you a pretty good idea of the range of each module. They're cheap as hell these days (my Kick, Snare, and Cymbal/Hihat were $200 all together) so they're worth picking up. Like you'd said, MFB has a rep for cheaping out on the build, (evident with the drums because they're not all exactly the same size), but they're still very durable. The knobs feel solid and everything.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2660
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
And speaking of Attenuators, what happened to the RYO AIRTENUATOR? I haven't been able to find them anywhere for the longest time.
I vaguely recall someone a few pages back having the same issue. I think they're solution they said was to get some of these instead:

Amazon Link

Probably something I ought to look into myself as I'm finding more uses for an attenuator lately but in my system, I've only got one attenuation module, so it doesn't help much.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2661
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Derp's Avatar
RE: VCA's for modulation, think of VCA's as kind of a dynamic attenuation. Stealing from the DotCom LFO++'s waveform examples (which roger even says in the description can be accomplished with more modulation and VCA's), this kind of gives you an idea of the things you can do with more VCA's controlling modulation amounts:



The decaying frequency and increasing frequency examples are something you can get by just plugging an LFO into another LFO's speed control, but the others are done by running an LFO/Envelop into a VCA, with an LFO/Envelpe modulating the depth, and then the output of the VCA controlling either more modulation via CV or another controller directly.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
I vaguely recall someone a few pages back having the same issue. I think they're solution they said was to get some of these instead:

Amazon Link

Probably something I ought to look into myself as I'm finding more uses for an attenuator lately but in my system, I've only got one attenuation module, so it doesn't help much.
You might have been referring to the Monoprice ones I use: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...2C+LLC-3755668

Works just fine as an attenuator/mult, and they keep dropping the price on them.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2663
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent View Post
You might have been referring to the Monoprice ones I use: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...2C+LLC-3755668

Works just fine as an attenuator/mult, and they keep dropping the price on them.
Wow. That's cheap enough, I could pull the trigger on that right now even being broke. So the fact that it's a longer connection on the male side of it doesn't give you issues and it splits the signal just fine?
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Wow. That's cheap enough, I could pull the trigger on that right now even being broke. So the fact that it's a longer connection on the male side of it doesn't give you issues and it splits the signal just fine?
I have yet to notice any issues. Considering that they are just giving them away at that price, no harm in ordering a couple and trying them out.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2665
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent View Post
I have yet to notice any issues. Considering that they are just giving them away at that price, no harm in ordering a couple and trying them out.
Good point! Just ordered ten. Hell, if these work out, I might have a reason to sell my Stackables. I really don't need to mult that often in the first place and when I do, it's extremely rare that I need to split to more than two and if I do, I've still got one passive mult module. Thanks for the tip, dude!

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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2666
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Derp's Avatar
Since we're on the subject of TRS cables and such, does anyone know if those stereo aux cables for phones and automobiles work in a modular environment? Since the splitters @Accent work, the end to end TRS cables should work as well, right? If they do, then I just hit the motherload concerning a cheap source for cables!

Old 3rd April 2017
  #2667
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
Div Kid has certainly made the WMA performance mixer look tempting, it's just the price that's putting me off.
It's spendy no doubt but it's also fantastic. One thing- notice how much DivKid uses the PM Mutes module when he is demonstrating the mixer. After owning it for a while now I really wish I also had the Mutes module too, and plan to get it eventually. That being said I think this mixer is specialized towards a live (key word: Performance) case in which you want the control a traditional hardware mixer adds to any setup, so not for everyone certainly. If I am being completely honest I probably don't "need" it since I currently have no plans to take the monster case out of the house anytime soon, but I do not regret buying it since I enjoy doing "live" jams at home and recording to 2 tracks just as much as multi-tracking.
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Old 3rd April 2017
  #2668
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void23's Avatar
Any thoughts on Circadian Rhythms? One just came up for a good price, but trying to justify it compared to all the other usual suspects I have (BSP, Abelton)
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2669
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justjools's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Wow. That's cheap enough, I could pull the trigger on that right now even being broke. So the fact that it's a longer connection on the male side of it doesn't give you issues and it splits the signal just fine?
That's a big saver

I've got a couple of these 5 way headphone jacks as mults and much cheaper than the Intellijel ones. Being stereo and not mono doesn't make any difference.

The Modular Thread 20175 Way 3.5mm Jack Multi Headphone Headset Earphone MP3 Player Audio Hub Splitter | eBay


Loved the VCA stuff btw. Lots to try out
Old 3rd April 2017
  #2670
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
That's a big saver

I've got a couple of these 5 way headphone jacks as mults and much cheaper than the Intellijel ones.

The Modular Thread 20175 Way 3.5mm Jack Multi Headphone Headset Earphone MP3 Player Audio Hub Splitter | eBay
Yeah, Slaughtrhaus turned me on to those, too.
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