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The Modular Thread 2017 Modular Synthesizers
Old 20th February 2017
  #1711
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Derp's Avatar
106 Chorus came in today. (I thought the mail didn't run on President's Day?) It's a little more subtle than I remember, but it's still SOOOO awesome. I think the attached example gets pretty close to Juno/AX60 sound. Really stoked to order that Tonestar soon! So the sample shown below is Stillson Hammer sequencing the Pittsburgh Synthesizer Box. The saw output goes to everbody's favorite brand: A Bastl Cinnamon. Cinnamon is modulated by an A-143-1 before going to the 106 Chorus and into the D'AWWW.
Attached Files

106 Chorus Test.wav (1.88 MB, 501 views)

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Old 20th February 2017
  #1712
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justjools's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Take what I say with a grain of salt as I've only just seriously investigated the 303 sound for my own rack. My experience with 303-alikes is fairly limited. I had an FB-383 (which sounds fantastic so long as it actually works ) and an ASol TBX-303 in the past (which just doesn't sound a damn thing like a 303, I think.) I've had the first-gen OSC303 for a while, but the closest I have to a 303 filter right now is an A-103. I came real close to getting a 3003, but ended up getting the x0x-heart instead, even though it was over a hundred bucks more. What I've learned in trying to get acidy sounds is that there's a lot going into them. The saw is pretty straightforward, but as previously mentioned, the square isn't really a square. The filter is a big part of the magic, but as also mentioned, the envelope shape is a huge part of it. The way the sequencer slides and how it handles accents also have a giant effect on the way the 303 sounds. In my experiments, I can get kinda close with the Stillson Hammer, but the slide isn't quite right. Same with the envelope. I just spent twenty minutes futzing with Maths and still couldn't get it there. That's why I think the best way to get the 303 is to get either an all-in-one solution like x0x-heart or M303, or to get components that were designed to work together to get that sound like OSC303 and the VCF303. Like for me, on paper the only component that was missing was the right filter, but x0x-heart filled the gap better because it's got the envelope as well as accent and slide inputs, so the guesswork is taken out. I should be able to nail it just with a good sequencer and a couple extra gate signals. x0x-heart isn't that expensive when you figure that it's a full 303 voice and you don't have to wonder if it's got everything you need. Mine just shipped yesterday, so if you want when it gets in, I was planning on putting it through its paces anyway, so I could record some demos since there don't seem to be many of them out there.

Also, keep in mind that depending on the sound you're trying to emulate, there's also the matter of getting the right distortion to match. Oldschool acid leaned heavily on overdriven Mackie channels and Rat pedals. Best way I've found to get there is with an A-119 (it can be overdriven pretty hard) and a 308 (to my ears as a guitarist, this is exactly like a Rat pedal.)
I think I'll stick with software then or just use what I've got.

As much as I prefer nice analogue over digital (I've never heard good emulation of vintage classics such as Moog, Oberheim and Prophet. The Roland plugouts are pretty good however) but this is the best of a bunch and to my ears sounds quite good. (SOZ not modular!) It has CV modulation too? via software or Expert Sleepers?

http://www.audiorealism.se/abl3.html
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Old 20th February 2017
  #1713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
106 Chorus came in today. (I thought the mail didn't run on President's Day?) It's a little more subtle than I remember, but it's still SOOOO awesome.
Not sure it's the case with THAT particular circuit but most BBD chorus/flanger/delays are less pronounced with high volume signals so it might be worth attenuating your signal and seeing if it sounds more pronounced.
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Old 20th February 2017
  #1714
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapedseams View Post
Not sure it's the case with THAT particular circuit but most BBD chorus/flanger/delays are less pronounced with high volume signals so it might be worth attenuating your signal and seeing if it sounds more pronounced.
Just gave it a whirl, and no dice. It still sounds nice, don't get me wrong. I'm probably just not remembering the sound of it correctly.
Old 20th February 2017
  #1715
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
I use ABL 3 rack extension for all my 303 needs, it's as close as I've ever heard anything get, and I used to own the real thing for 5 years..
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Old 20th February 2017
  #1716
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
Yesterday i was very tempted to buy a "Klee" sequencer kit,
However today i bought a Korg Odyssey module Rev 1 instead

I know I'm a traitor........
I keep looking at the partial kit and wondering if I should just man up and do it as well.

But I think I've now approached the point where I just like building stuff. I'm not really a fan of sequencers where I can't see what the note I'm entering is.

Congrats on the Oddy though!
Old 21st February 2017
  #1717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Just gave it a whirl, and no dice. It still sounds nice, don't get me wrong. I'm probably just not remembering the sound of it correctly.
Another option (and I don't know if this circuit has the option) is to change the wet/dry blend - that's where the real magic lies with modulated BBD based effects. Too much or not enough of one or the other will make the effect sound less pronounced.

100% wet in a chorus will just sound like Vibrato for example.

I changed the mix resistor value on my cheap but really-quite-good Joyo Flanger pedal and it went straight from meh to Electric Mistress (well, nearly).

Anyway i'll STFU now.
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I use ABL 3 rack extension for all my 303 needs, it's as close as I've ever heard anything get, and I used to own the real thing for 5 years..
Your thoughts on the Avalon?
Old 21st February 2017
  #1719
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
thought this was cool, especially reading the patch notes underneath the video..

https://vimeo.com/151743234
Old 21st February 2017
  #1720
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
Your thoughts on the Avalon?
nicely built, sounded fat, could sound like a Moog if you tweaked it, bit clunky interface I thought, & bit buggy but all round a nice bit of kit.
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
nicely built, sounded fat, could sound like a Moog if you tweaked it, bit clunky interface I thought, & bit buggy but all round a nice bit of kit.
Cool. Sorry, but I meant in terms of 303 accuracy?

Thanks.
Old 21st February 2017
  #1722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Yeah, good luck with that!

I know there's a method to the madness, but I really don't know what that method is. All I know is that so long as it gets a steady trigger and the scatter controls are tied to LFO's, then you can get some great results with it. At least it's not as unwieldy as the Scatter on the TR-8. I really don't understand how they expected that to be used in a rhythmic context.
So I'm not crazy, eh? I haven't used an LFO with it.. just some manual wiggling.. tried it with some melodic sequences and running some weird vocal samples into it.. now THAT came out cool. Drum loops are next.

Another dumb question.. picking up a Tiptop Z8000 sequencer as it can do sequencing, modulation, etc... but will likely want a quantizer so I can drive the Tonestar, etc. Don't need anything too fancy - was looking at the Blue Lantern ones.. they have a dual quantizer (barton circuit) and a quad.. any thoughts on those? the quad isn't much more but you can't have different scales per output like the dual.. not sure if I care? Thoughts?
Old 21st February 2017
  #1723
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
So I'm not crazy, eh? I haven't used an LFO with it.. just some manual wiggling.. tried it with some melodic sequences and running some weird vocal samples into it.. now THAT came out cool. Drum loops are next.

Another dumb question.. picking up a Tiptop Z8000 sequencer as it can do sequencing, modulation, etc... but will likely want a quantizer so I can drive the Tonestar, etc. Don't need anything too fancy - was looking at the Blue Lantern ones.. they have a dual quantizer (barton circuit) and a quad.. any thoughts on those? the quad isn't much more but you can't have different scales per output like the dual.. not sure if I care? Thoughts?
Avoid the Blue Lantern, everything I've read says it's horribly slow. The best quantizer out there right now is Ornament and Crime if you can build it, or find someone to build one for you. I picked mine up for $265 built and it does a lot more than act as a quantizer. The uScale II would be next on my list, but it takes a while to grok how the more complex functions interact with the scale settings.
Old 21st February 2017
  #1724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Avoid the Blue Lantern, everything I've read says it's horribly slow. The best quantizer out there right now is Ornament and Crime if you can build it, or find someone to build one for you. I picked mine up for $265 built and it does a lot more than act as a quantizer. The uScale II would be next on my list, but it takes a while to grok how the more complex functions interact with the scale settings.
That was on my radar as well, but I don't have the time to DIY one right now (and if it's SMD.. well, yeah.. not my thing). Who'd you get yours from? They seem to get done/sold in batches.. and don't come up used very often.
Old 21st February 2017
  #1725
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
So I'm not crazy, eh? I haven't used an LFO with it.. just some manual wiggling.. tried it with some melodic sequences and running some weird vocal samples into it.. now THAT came out cool. Drum loops are next.

Another dumb question.. picking up a Tiptop Z8000 sequencer as it can do sequencing, modulation, etc... but will likely want a quantizer so I can drive the Tonestar, etc. Don't need anything too fancy - was looking at the Blue Lantern ones.. they have a dual quantizer (barton circuit) and a quad.. any thoughts on those? the quad isn't much more but you can't have different scales per output like the dual.. not sure if I care? Thoughts?
Doepfer makes a dual as well that works pretty well, however you also can't have different scales - or at least you can't have different musical keys. The first input is the chromatic scale, or you can remove a jumper on the back so it functions as the second. The second gives you options for chromatic, major or minor scales, chords or fifths intervals. You can also add a 7th or 6th to the chord if you're in chord mode.

I'm considering the 8000 as well, even though I don't like knobby sequencers. It just seems to be able to do so much though and I love the possibility of different clocked four bar patterns.

But yeah, the O+C seems to be the best bet if you can find someone willing to do it. I wasn't going to go that route as I didn't want the menus, but if I wind up with a Z8000, having four quantizers in one module seems like a necessity.
Old 21st February 2017
  #1726
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
Doepfer makes a dual as well that works pretty well, however you also can't have different scales - or at least you can't have different musical keys. The first input is the chromatic scale, or you can remove a jumper on the back so it functions as the second. The second gives you options for chromatic, major or minor scales, chords or fifths intervals. You can also add a 7th or 6th to the chord if you're in chord mode.

I'm considering the 8000 as well, even though I don't like knobby sequencers. It just seems to be able to do so much though and I love the possibility of different clocked four bar patterns.

But yeah, the O+C seems to be the best bet if you can find someone willing to do it. I wasn't going to go that route as I didn't want the menus, but if I wind up with a Z8000, having four quantizers in one module seems like a necessity.
The menu's on the O+C are pretty well done on some of the older apps, pretty much set and forget. Some of the newer apps in 1.2 need a bit of work, but hey, you're getting new features every couple of months with this thing. 1.3 will have a true chording app.

I got mine through Magpie, but there seem to be a few builders who'll do them on commission on Muffs.
Old 21st February 2017
  #1727
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
thought this was cool, especially reading the patch notes underneath the video..

https://vimeo.com/151743234
Wish I could do angry crap like that. I’m still stuck in ambient mode, for better or worse, until I learn to use this thing better. Anyways, here’s the first recorded patch with the Octocontroller ...

Main sound is Chord going through the Morpheus with timed LFO modulation on all the different filter axes creating the strumming sound. The “air” sound is the Erica Black Wavetable with quite a bit of bit crushing to get the breathy effect, just cycling through the wave table with a slow LFO. The bass is Omikron going through a Doepfer Wasp with a synced LFO from the Octocontroller on the filter depth. Noise percussion is a Wogglebug OSC (finally have a good use for this thing) going through an Evolution filter. Tamed the Wogglebug a bit by giving in a sine from the Omikron into the “Influence” input. There’s a little bit of Rings to accent the bass, then a healthy dose of Clouds Oliverb on the Wavetable for depth. 808 kick is from Peaks.

Edit: Forgot this ... Sequence is just a Turing Machine on a really slow clock going through the O+C quantizer. Everything in the patch is LFO's or Clocks from the Octocontroller, with a bit of Doepfer Clock dividers and Batumi when I ran out of outputs on the Octo. No true sequencer was used in this patch.

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Old 21st February 2017
  #1728
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
Cool. Sorry, but I meant in terms of 303 accuracy?

Thanks.
tbh be brutally honest I didn't think it was that accurate..

I don't know why that little silver box carries so much enigma but it just does, if you must have the real sound get a real one, if you're not bothered get software or an Avalon.
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1729
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Coorec's Avatar
About OC

This quote is from O+C description on Modular Grid.

Quote:
Quantermain: quad quantiser with user-editable scales + built-in "Turing Machines
Can any owner explain what exactly built in Turing Machines means? I considered to use it in conjunction with a Turing Machine. But if its already inbuilt, i wouldnt need the TM and could save some rack space, or?
Old 21st February 2017
  #1730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
This quote is from O+C description on Modular Grid.



Can any owner explain what exactly built in Turing Machines means? I considered to use it in conjunction with a Turing Machine. But if its already inbuilt, i wouldnt need the TM and could save some rack space, or?
yup
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1731
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ngarjuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
tbh be brutally honest I didn't think it was that accurate..

I don't know why that little silver box carries so much enigma but it just does, if you must have the real sound get a real one, if you're not bothered get software or an Avalon.
From someone claiming the Avalon "could sound like a Moog if tweaked" I'd take this with a huge grain of salt.

Actually, here: Brian puts his money where his mouth is.




Even the VCA behavior is exquisitely represented


So: didn't like the Avalon? Sure, some won't. Buggy? Maybe, I haven't found any bugs myself but I understand there are some (or were in past firmwares at least). Valid complaints. But saying it doesn't accurately sound like a 303 is just silly.

Last edited by ngarjuna; 21st February 2017 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1732
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ngarjuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
This quote is from O+C description on Modular Grid.



Can any owner explain what exactly built in Turing Machines means? I considered to use it in conjunction with a Turing Machine. But if its already inbuilt, i wouldnt need the TM and could save some rack space, or?
Yep, it has shift register style sequencers like a Turing machine. Obviously the interface is a bit different though.
Old 21st February 2017
  #1733
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
nicely built, sounded fat, could sound like a Moog if you tweaked it, bit clunky interface I thought, & bit buggy but all round a nice bit of kit.
Maybe some of the most important bugs have been fixed now? I think its OS works pretty well by now.

The modular integration is great.

I realized fiddlesticks never got results out of it of the same high quality we know from his modular demos. So I assumed it simply was not his thing. Would be boring if everyone would love the same girl, anyway, so nothing wrong with that.
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1734
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
The menu's on the O+C are pretty well done on some of the older apps, pretty much set and forget. Some of the newer apps in 1.2 need a bit of work, but hey, you're getting new features every couple of months with this thing. 1.3 will have a true chording app.

I got mine through Magpie, but there seem to be a few builders who'll do them on commission on Muffs.
Yeah, I went through some demos last night again. I still like immediacy in modules overall as I like patching on the fly and not having to plan what mode to have a certain module in, but can certainly appreciate all the functionality and cool functionality at that in this. I love the chord mode as well as the Turing Machines and quantizers. Priced it at modularaddict last night and seems like $100 for parts and the build doesn't look overly tough either.

I might be sold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Main sound is Chord going through the Morpheus with timed LFO modulation on all the different filter axes creating the strumming sound. The “air” sound is the Erica Black Wavetable with quite a bit of bit crushing to get the breathy effect, just cycling through the wave table with a slow LFO. The bass is Omikron going through a Doepfer Wasp with a synced LFO from the Octocontroller on the filter depth. Noise percussion is a Wogglebug OSC (finally have a good use for this thing) going through an Evolution filter. Tamed the Wogglebug a bit by giving in a sine from the Omikron into the “Influence” input. There’s a little bit of Rings to accent the bass, then a healthy dose of Clouds Oliverb on the Wavetable for depth. 808 kick is from Peaks.

Edit: Forgot this ... Sequence is just a Turing Machine on a really slow clock going through the O+C quantizer. Everything in the patch is LFO's or Clocks from the Octocontroller, with a bit of Doepfer Clock dividers and Batumi when I ran out of outputs on the Octo. No true sequencer was used in this patch.

Really enjoyed this one. Well done!
Old 21st February 2017
  #1735
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ngarjuna's Avatar
I had considered O&C to be lots of interesting things I didn't really need; but in my search for a flexible 2-channel quantizer it kept coming up on top. I think I'm still interested in a Turing+Volts+Pulses, I'm not super interested in using a tiny screen and endless encoders to sequence. But as a quantizer it seems like a real winner (and the fact that it does like 12,000 other things will surely come in handy now and again in a "I-use-Maths-mostly-as-envelopes-but-boy-am-I-glad-it's-so-flexible" kind of way).
Old 21st February 2017
  #1736
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
Maybe some of the most important bugs have been fixed now? I think its OS works pretty well by now.

The modular integration is great.

I realized fiddlesticks never got results out of it of the same high quality we know from his modular demos. So I assumed it simply was not his thing. Would be boring if everyone would love the same girl, anyway, so nothing wrong with that.
that's probably a fair summation..
Old 21st February 2017
  #1737
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarjuna View Post
From someone claiming the Avalon "could sound like a Moog if tweaked" I'd take this with a huge grain of salt.
Well I was an early adopter and had plenty of time to play with it, adding the sub osc and setting it up so it wasn't playing as an acid machine could get you very convincing moog like sounds, the filters are very similar after all..
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1738
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ngarjuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Well I was an early adopter and had plenty of time to play with it, adding the sub osc and setting it up so it wasn't playing as an acid machine could get you very convincing moog like sounds, the filters are very similar after all..
That's probably not debatable (or not usefully so, anyway): personally I'd consider the 303 filter to be about as far from a Moog sound as you can get with a 4-pole filter; but that's a fairly subjective comparison and I'd agree that I'm exaggerating the point: the fact that they're both resonant low-pass ladder filters is indeed a noteworthy similarity.

Anyway, fiddlestickz and I could likely discuss the relative merits of the Avalon for days but the comparison videos probably speak volumes more than what we think. Personally I salute any cloner who actually has the stones to put their product next to its lineage in a video; you won't see Roland doing that. When AJH made their series of "vs. the Model D" there was a precipitous increase in interest in the Minimod line.
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1739
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cane creek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
I keep looking at the partial kit and wondering if I should just man up and do it as well.

But I think I've now approached the point where I just like building stuff. I'm not really a fan of sequencers where I can't see what the note I'm entering is.

Congrats on the Oddy though!
I'm not all that bothered about the Klee, it's just in the flesh it looks gorgeous and I assume would be an entertaining build.
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Old 21st February 2017
  #1740
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I feel like I've only scratched the surface of the O&C but I know I want another one asap.
There's a local builder that advertises, but the blank panel is sooo ugly and he even charges more than the magpie one I got last month.. will magpie just do another run asap?
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