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The Modular Thread 2017 Modular Synthesizers
Old 15th January 2017
  #571
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Tip Top audio have a new module coming out that has something to do with drums..
Old 15th January 2017
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
Not everyone has a PEG. This guy doesn't. I love my Batumi though!

So I've read this post and your subsequent three or four posts. I'll respond basically to all of them in this post.

First of all, I'm going to tell you what I think you need, and that's NOT more modules. I know, that's not the Gearslutz way. Some might even call it sacrilege, especially since I'm saying it on a Sunday. But you've got plenty in your arsenal right now. What you first need is to learn what you have and how to use those things. If you've got Maths and you think it only does LFOs, you need to get to know Maths better. Go through the Maths Illustrated Patch Cheat Sheet here: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63068. Don't just go through it, patch it how they say and apply it to something. Rather, patch it, then remove part of the patch and see what that changes - essentially removing that removed what from Maths functionality. Then change the knob values to items other than the values recommended in the cheat sheet. How did that impact what Maths is doing. Turn cycle off on Maths, trigger Ch1, and then trigger Ch4 from EOR on Ch1 and take the sum, or and inverted sum values to process things. As mentioned, use CV to controll rise, fall or both.

Second, you're thinking in terms of subtractive synthesis - there's nothing wrong with that at all - until you get bored doing subtractive synthesis patches in your modular. I was in the same boat just nine months ago or so. I read Allen Strange's Electronic Music book and it really got me to think about synthesis overall much differently. I also love scouring youtube for how-to videos on modular. Mylarmelodies is fantastic at these. I'm also a stickler for reading through entire Muffs threads, doing searches here for a module that just arrived and watching a gazillion youtube videos on my new modules. I like to see how other people are using the module, oftentimes they're using it in ways I'd never think to. So then I try to mimic what they're doing with my modules. I'll often revisit these threads or videos just to refresh my memory of not using my module as my mind likes to or has gotten into the patern of using it.

Third, there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking at the popular items on modulargrid. It's one of the ways I got to know what's out there when starting. But there are a lot of things in a lot of racks that are popular on modulargrid because IMO 1) the module is hyped 2) the company that makes the module is hyped 3) the module is one of the best out there 4) the module used to be one of the best out there, but has since been surpassed by something even better. So don't just blindly assume that something based on its popularity is right for you. Look at its functions, see what other modules offer those same functions or similar, search muffs or the modular threads here for comparisons or best modules for that particular functionality. Then watch Youtube videos to try to find out what it does and how one accomplishes those tasks - does it work for you?

You said you'd like self-generating patches. Turing Machine, Wogglebug and O&C seem to be great candidates there, but since you said you've got a disting coming - it has random shift registers that can get you in the ball park as well.

Can you combine modulations? Yes. I'm not sure what exactly you're asking for - go from one modulation to another to another? If so, you could manually do so in a CV mixer, use square LFOs in a VCA that can handle CV or use a sequential switch to do so. If you want to add them together, again a CV mixer or DC capable VCA.

More alternatives to the patch you suggested? I'm assuming you're also using either a mult of your envelope or a different envelop to control opening and closing the VCA for amplitude? Try multing your audio signal and then use audio-rate modulation of the VCA or a filter and slowly add that to the original signal. Once you have your clock divider, I think you can, provided you explore how to use it - find a lot of new rhythmic possibilities. And don't discount LPGs just because they're "west coast" They provide a completely different, oftentimes musical and rhythmic possibilities other than a straight filter.
I always spend a lot of time look at modular channels on Youtube. I have been through all the patches in the Maths cheatsheet at least the ones that I could understand and there were some I couldn't get to do anything. EG out - is that envelope generator out? I do need to look at it again as quite a few I didn't understand.

About the VCA - I don't understand how to use VCA's apart from using the gate and envelope. What else do I use them for and how do I do this? I imagine you can effect the VCA amplitude with an LFO? I use Veils as a mixer and envelope gate and that's it. 'audio-rate modulation of the VCA' - I'll search for that.
Old 16th January 2017
  #573
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
I always spend a lot of time look at modular channels on Youtube. I have been through all the patches in the Maths cheatsheet at least the ones that I could understand and there were some I couldn't get to do anything. EG out - is that envelope generator out? I do need to look at it again as quite a few I didn't understand.

About the VCA - I don't understand how to use VCA's apart from using the gate and envelope. What else do I use them for and how do I do this? I imagine you can effect the VCA amplitude with an LFO? I use Veils as a mixer and envelope gate and that's it. 'audio-rate modulation of the VCA' - I'll search for that.
Check out this video series on VCA's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WHt298jaPo

Additionally, check out DivKid's Modular Podcast. Though it does have a habit of inducing some severe GAS, there's a lot of good talk and examples of various styles of patching.
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Old 16th January 2017
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Tip Top audio have a new module coming out that has something to do with drums..
If they announce it at NAMM going by their past track record you'll probably see it in 2-3 years time

Which reminds me, what ever happened to the tiptop/serge modules they were displaying at NAMM about 2 years ago.
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Old 16th January 2017
  #575
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjools View Post
I always spend a lot of time look at modular channels on Youtube. I have been through all the patches in the Maths cheatsheet at least the ones that I could understand and there were some I couldn't get to do anything. EG out - is that envelope generator out? I do need to look at it again as quite a few I didn't understand.

About the VCA - I don't understand how to use VCA's apart from using the gate and envelope. What else do I use them for and how do I do this? I imagine you can effect the VCA amplitude with an LFO? I use Veils as a mixer and envelope gate and that's it. 'audio-rate modulation of the VCA' - I'll search for that.
It seems to me that you might be stuck in subtractive synth think. I've got a VCO, a filter, an EG and a VCA.

So here's an example with Maths that will get you to see that Maths doesn't have to be an EG or LFO. Use Maths as a clock divider using only the trigger input on Ch 1 and the EOR output. Start by taking a clock to create triggers - or you could use a square wave LFO. Make sure the clock is pretty slow as you're about to divide it into smaller clock signals. Put that clock into a mult - either passive or buffered. One output of the mult into a DC coupled mixing VCA channel with gain of the channel maxed. The output of the VCA mix output to the trigger of an EG, use the EG to control filter frequency or control amplitude of a signal through a VCA or both. Another output of the mult into the trigger input on Ch 1 of Maths. Now take the EOR from Maths and put into another channel on your VCA, again with the channel gain maxed. You've essentially created a clock divider now and your envelope should be triggered once on the initial clock and another time at the EOR of Maths. Now play with the Rise knob on Ch 1 making the value smaller and bigger and see how it effects the sound and the triggering of the second envelope. Now play with the exp/lin/log knob on Maths. How does that effect your clock division. What about when you play with the Rise knob now? Now take another LFO and pass it into the Rise input CV jack. How is your second envelope triggering now? Now take the output of EOR and put it into another mult. First output of the mult again goes to the second VCA channel, second output of mult goes into the trigger of Ch4 on Maths. Take EOC from Ch4 into a third VCA channel with the gain maxed. Now you should have three different clock divisions, provided the initial clock/trigger is spaced far enough apart for the Maths EOR and EOC to trigger between. So now do the same thing on Ch4, but this time play with both the Rise and Fall knobs. Then play with the lin/exp/log knob. You can of course take another LFO to control Rise/Fall or even the both CV inputs of channel 4 now. Change the speeds of the LFOs going into the Rise for Ch1 and Rise/Fall/both of Ch4 and see what that does to your envelopes.

As a bonus, you've got some kooky shaped CV values you can get out of the Ch1 and Ch4 outs now for other CV modulation in your system. (PWM on the oscillator maybe?) Or you could use the Sum/Inv/Or values. Or you could take the Sum/Inv/Or values into Ch 2 or Ch 3 and use those attenuverters, then take the output of Ch 2 or Ch 3 into your PWM. Play with the Ch 2 and Ch 3 knobs. Max them out. Turn them clockwise past noon. Then take them CCW past noon, then maxed negative. This is all well and good, but perhaps you want to limit the amount of CV on the PWM and for some reason can't use the Ch 2 and Ch 3 knobs. So you take the output from Ch 2 or Ch 3 into a VCA channel, use the gain knob on the VCA to limit how much signal is actually being applied to the PWM and send the output of the VCA channel to the PWM CV input of your oscillator. (essentially attenuating it) That's cool and all, but I want to slowly ramp up the amount of modulation of the PWM. So take a ramp LFO into the CV input of the VCA channel. That's cool, but the ramp is actually too high on the VCA. So take the ramp into another VCA channel, output of that channel into the VC control of your Maths Ch 2 or Ch 3 output, and change the gain on the VCA channel for your Ramp LFO to get it where you want it.

Hopefully this shows you just one example of how to use Maths in a non-LFO/EG method as well as ways to use a VCA with mixing capabilities.
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Old 16th January 2017
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
If they announce it at NAMM going by their past track record you'll probably see it in 2-3 years time

Which reminds me, what ever happened to the tiptop/serge modules they were displaying at NAMM about 2 years ago.
They certainly have their own way about releasing things, they marketed the Mantis cases beautifully, apparently mass produced, plastic/injection moulding, then proceeded to be out of stock everywhere for months on end and still are, ( mine is still on pre order from November ) then out of nowhere came a new filter and Quantizer that no one saw coming..
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Old 16th January 2017
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
then out of nowhere came a new filter and Quantizer that no one saw coming..
They did show the Quantizer prototype at Musikmesse 2015
Still the Drum module you mentioned has aroused my interest
Old 16th January 2017
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty.west View Post
Sorry to keep chiming in with these utter noob questions, but after watching a bunch of great modular performance videos this weekend I've began to re-think the kind of system I'd like to build. I previously never really 'broke down' the performances/tracks I was watching and always, foolishly, assumed that one vco was the source for all the layers I was hearing, but it was being looped or something so that new layers could be added. Of course then it occurred to me that there's actually multiple sources in all these clips, some parts w/ 2-3 vco's alone. So I'm wondering... if I wanted to have a composition with a fat (lets say 2 vco) detuned bass, a nice ethereal pad sound, a main melody/sequence and then the opportunity to do some 'lead' work (or add bleeps/bloops/noises) would I need 5-6 vco's for that alone? Plus a filter, vca, envelopes, etc. for each? That's not even including drums. Oh man, this seems more daunting than I originally thought, but also exciting as I look forward to learning it all. I guess I kind of understand the purpose of all the quad modules out there- quad vca, vcf, adsr, etc.

Damn, now it'll be way harder to plan out a system than I initially thought. The original system I was planning would be good as a monosynth, but I'd definitely like to add more voices so that I can have different layers in a track. What are some good sequencers that I can have multiple 'layers' on? ER-101? Also, are there any modules that I don't need multiples of for what I'm trying to pull off? i.e. maybe a vca or mixer or effects?

Hope my post makes some sense.

Here's a few examples of what I mean (some more elaborate than others):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlm7Gw4aIQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRqNjtqccPA&t=3475s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0we7tkr-jh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ7hX3-KRb0
What concerns me about your posts is the type of music you want to make would be done far more easily/cheaply with software synths or hardware fix architecture synths especially when you start talking Etheneal pads etc.
For now I'd look at the modular as something that is going to add elements to your existing music rather than something that is going to play all your music. (at least for now)

It doesn't help when you have your Richard Devines post 30 second clips of such music when he has every module at his disposal, 4 of each if he needs them.
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Old 16th January 2017
  #579
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Lightning strikes twice,
Mouser & Tayda arrive on same day


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Old 16th January 2017
  #580
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
I havn't got a Clue,
Its a VCO that doesn't seem to be on modular grid, (looks Dual with VCA's)
heres a closer look......

Don't know what it is either, but it's interesting to see another Convulsion Generator in the wild. Weird little module that doesn't seem to get much love, but it's a lot of fun.
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Old 16th January 2017
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
Don't discount the fact that you can have a signal running straight with no filter and these oftentimes sound good. I also like having a signal run through a VCA with just a bit of gain to almost drone the tones, then adding VC control of the sound. But you can also add that VC control of the sound going through a filter which will change pretty significantly from the original source sound that's droning at different pitches.

So to get everything you mentioned, do you need a different VCO, filter, EG? No, not really. You'll get more flexibility if you do, but as you're just starting isn't this really putting the horse before the cart? Start with one or two and see where that takes you.
I just want to chime in on this: One thing that helps with being able to eliminate the need for multiple filters and VCA's in a patch is in the oscillator design. Smutty seems to be leaning East Coast, and it gets harder to go without a filter when a basic VCO like that is designed to throw all the harmonics it has at you. Look into oscillators that eliminate the need for filtering through their internal shaping. An example is a wavetable oscillator. The nice thing about wavetables is they usually have a wavetable that starts or ends with a sine. A sine wave is pretty close to what you get with an oscillator being ran through a closed filter. So instead if taking the biggest baddest most brash waveform you can find and carving out harmonics, take that wavetable and modulate it from a more harmonic waveform back to that sine. Same thing with FM synthesis modules. Scoop out the harmonics with modulation instead of a filter. Also, the traditional West Coast method includes the use of low-pass gates. Gates are kinda like filters and VCA's in one. As the VCA closes, the filter cutoff comes down. It sounds limiting, but it's very musical, especially when you start getting vactrols involved. Low-pass gates can also eliminate the need for envelopes in that they can be 'pinged' with a short gate or trigger signal. Because of the natural decay of vactrols, it basically acts as a decay envelope on the low-pass gate. Nice thing about vactrol LOG 's is that they're cheap. You can snag one off of Etsy for $30. Also nice about vactrols is that each one decays differently so that even in a Dual LPG, the two channels will be different from each other. Multiple voices don't have to be expensive so long as you find the right workarounds.
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Old 16th January 2017
  #582
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well, thanks (curses?) to gruvsyco - I've now entered the insane realm of eurocrack.

I had a Mother 32.. and now I have a Tonestar 2600 .. we'll see where it goes (maths? disting? clouds?).

I plan to stick MOSTLY with full voices and use it as a massive super-flexible monosynth.. but I do also like to FSU with external sounds.. so there's that.

I just spent about a half hour running the Tonestar off the Mother (and feeding it back into the external input). Other than bit of volume mismatch (handled easily with the Mother's mix control) - I was quickly creating some really organic and FAT monosynth sounds. Lots of subtle modulation and movement.
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Old 16th January 2017
  #583
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
I just want to chime in on this: One thing that helps with being able to eliminate the need for multiple filters and VCA's in a patch is in the oscillator design. Smutty seems to be leaning East Coast, and it gets harder to go without a filter when a basic VCO like that is designed to throw all the harmonics it has at you. Look into oscillators that eliminate the need for filtering through their internal shaping. An example is a wavetable oscillator. The nice thing about wavetables is they usually have a wavetable that starts or ends with a sine. A sine wave is pretty close to what you get with an oscillator being ran through a closed filter. So instead if taking the biggest baddest most brash waveform you can find and carving out harmonics, take that wavetable and modulate it from a more harmonic waveform back to that sine. Same thing with FM synthesis modules. Scoop out the harmonics with modulation instead of a filter. Also, the traditional West Coast method includes the use of low-pass gates. Gates are kinda like filters and VCA's in one. As the VCA closes, the filter cutoff comes down. It sounds limiting, but it's very musical, especially when you start getting vactrols involved. Low-pass gates can also eliminate the need for envelopes in that they can be 'pinged' with a short gate or trigger signal. Because of the natural decay of vactrols, it basically acts as a decay envelope on the low-pass gate. Nice thing about vactrol LOG 's is that they're cheap. You can snag one off of Etsy for $30. Also nice about vactrols is that each one decays differently so that even in a Dual LPG, the two channels will be different from each other. Multiple voices don't have to be expensive so long as you find the right workarounds.
hey, thanks a lot for this tip, this is very useful and i'll keep this in mind going forward.
Old 17th January 2017
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
well, thanks (curses?) to gruvsyco - I've now entered the insane realm of eurocrack.

I had a Mother 32.. and now I have a Tonestar 2600 .. we'll see where it goes (maths? disting? clouds?).

I plan to stick MOSTLY with full voices and use it as a massive super-flexible monosynth.. but I do also like to FSU with external sounds.. so there's that.

I just spent about a half hour running the Tonestar off the Mother (and feeding it back into the external input). Other than bit of volume mismatch (handled easily with the Mother's mix control) - I was quickly creating some really organic and FAT monosynth sounds. Lots of subtle modulation and movement.
the tonestar is truly one of the most organic and thick sounding euro modules I've heard, it must sound insane with the Moog..
Old 17th January 2017
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
It seems to me that you might be stuck in subtractive synth think. I've got a VCO, a filter, an EG and a VCA.

So here's an example with Maths that will get you to see that Maths doesn't have to be an EG or LFO. Use Maths as a clock divider using only the trigger input on Ch 1 and the EOR output. Start by taking a clock to create triggers - or you could use a square wave LFO. Make sure the clock is pretty slow as you're about to divide it into smaller clock signals. Put that clock into a mult - either passive or buffered. One output of the mult into a DC coupled mixing VCA channel with gain of the channel maxed. The output of the VCA mix output to the trigger of an EG, use the EG to control filter frequency or control amplitude of a signal through a VCA or both. Another output of the mult into the trigger input on Ch 1 of Maths. Now take the EOR from Maths and put into another channel on your VCA, again with the channel gain maxed. You've essentially created a clock divider now and your envelope should be triggered once on the initial clock and another time at the EOR of Maths. Now play with the Rise knob on Ch 1 making the value smaller and bigger and see how it effects the sound and the triggering of the second envelope. Now play with the exp/lin/log knob on Maths. How does that effect your clock division. What about when you play with the Rise knob now? Now take another LFO and pass it into the Rise input CV jack. How is your second envelope triggering now? Now take the output of EOR and put it into another mult. First output of the mult again goes to the second VCA channel, second output of mult goes into the trigger of Ch4 on Maths. Take EOC from Ch4 into a third VCA channel with the gain maxed. Now you should have three different clock divisions, provided the initial clock/trigger is spaced far enough apart for the Maths EOR and EOC to trigger between. So now do the same thing on Ch4, but this time play with both the Rise and Fall knobs. Then play with the lin/exp/log knob. You can of course take another LFO to control Rise/Fall or even the both CV inputs of channel 4 now. Change the speeds of the LFOs going into the Rise for Ch1 and Rise/Fall/both of Ch4 and see what that does to your envelopes.

As a bonus, you've got some kooky shaped CV values you can get out of the Ch1 and Ch4 outs now for other CV modulation in your system. (PWM on the oscillator maybe?) Or you could use the Sum/Inv/Or values. Or you could take the Sum/Inv/Or values into Ch 2 or Ch 3 and use those attenuverters, then take the output of Ch 2 or Ch 3 into your PWM. Play with the Ch 2 and Ch 3 knobs. Max them out. Turn them clockwise past noon. Then take them CCW past noon, then maxed negative. This is all well and good, but perhaps you want to limit the amount of CV on the PWM and for some reason can't use the Ch 2 and Ch 3 knobs. So you take the output from Ch 2 or Ch 3 into a VCA channel, use the gain knob on the VCA to limit how much signal is actually being applied to the PWM and send the output of the VCA channel to the PWM CV input of your oscillator. (essentially attenuating it) That's cool and all, but I want to slowly ramp up the amount of modulation of the PWM. So take a ramp LFO into the CV input of the VCA channel. That's cool, but the ramp is actually too high on the VCA. So take the ramp into another VCA channel, output of that channel into the VC control of your Maths Ch 2 or Ch 3 output, and change the gain on the VCA channel for your Ramp LFO to get it where you want it.

Hopefully this shows you just one example of how to use Maths in a non-LFO/EG method as well as ways to use a VCA with mixing capabilities.
OMG- reading that made my head hurt!!!

I don't have a Maths and now I can see why it would be useless for my poor little brain to comprehend. So much going on. I would never think of doing any of that stuff at all.
And the million dollar question is- Will all that help me make a better song? Or just a more weird sound?

Not being facetious just a serious question.
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Old 17th January 2017
  #586
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Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
And the million dollar question is- Will all that help me make a better song? Or just a more weird sound?

Not being facetious just a serious question.
Let me save you a million dollars ABSOLUTELY NOT NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS will "going modular" help you make a better song (IMO of course, and some caveats apply depending on genre) but that's really in the eyes and ears of each individual user. Most modular sequencers lack any sort of "song" mode, which is why I use my Octatrack to sequence my modular for song stuff. There are lots of other reasons of course but that's a pretty big one to me...

My songs were fine before modular, and will be fine after (if there is such a thing). But my SOUNDS have dramatically changed in that I make sounds I never would have menu-dove my way to on a virus or poly evolver (having owned both) but easily make on a modular. The reverse applies of course (especially with regards to polyphony) which is why I still have a Moog and a Virus for "normal" synthesized sounds that are done more easily on those.
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Old 17th January 2017
  #587
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I'm a bit like Line of control when it comes to my modular, although I'm fully aware of how techy you can get with things, I already know that getting bogged down with those things takes me away from being creative and pushing out completed tunes, I've come to learn that there must be a balance between a total nerd and knowing how every single tiny item works and keeping it simple and making music, I'm more of a look back and see my music across history compared to look how much I know about my gear kinda person, as they say though it takes all kinds..
Old 17th January 2017
  #588
Gear Nut
 

So, I'm going to order Rings tomorrow. That'll leave me 10hp in my skiff, and I have about $200 in my modular savings fund after paying for Rings. Any recommendations for a module that will work well with Rings? Am thinking a Disting, but open to anything.

Here's my current skiff. Not shown is a bunch of 5u and frac stuff:
Old 17th January 2017
  #589
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
OMG- reading that made my head hurt!!!

I don't have a Maths and now I can see why it would be useless for my poor little brain to comprehend. So much going on. I would never think of doing any of that stuff at all.
And the million dollar question is- Will all that help me make a better song? Or just a more weird sound?

Not being facetious just a serious question.
LOL, sorry to give you a headache.

Here's the thing with Maths. You can make it as simple or complex as you want. And truthfully, I think I kind of showed that in the first part of the patch. Just take a clock into maths Ch1 then take the EOR out and you've divided your clock. I just threw in a bunch of other stuff, and that was all off the top of my head. I've never done a patch like that.

But, if you want a dual LFO with two attenuverters, Maths can do that. Or Dual AR EGs with two attenuverters.

I was merely trying to get him to think differently about Maths.

It _could_ help you make a better song, but chances are it won't necessarily. Understanding the rhythmic possibilities you can get generating EGs that way vs a standard clock and clock divider - this way you have control over the clock divisions rather than simple /2 /4 /8, etc. And truthfully that example won't make weird sounds. It's just a complicated way to generate additional EGs off the grid which can then control amplitude or filter modulations.

The truth of the matter is the most simple sequence of pitches used creatively and with some sort of rhythmic niceties can make a good song - at least to me. Then there are others that don't even have those "requirements" of what a good song is.

But, will you be able to better understand how to use your modular and get something off the beaten path by knowing this kind of stuff? Yeah. Will you think to do it on the fly as you're patching up something? I hadn't thought up that scenario on the fly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
Let me save you a million dollars ABSOLUTELY NOT NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS will "going modular" help you make a better song (IMO of course, and some caveats apply depending on genre) but that's really in the eyes and ears of each individual user. Most modular sequencers lack any sort of "song" mode, which is why I use my Octatrack to sequence my modular for song stuff. There are lots of other reasons of course but that's a pretty big one to me...

My songs were fine before modular, and will be fine after (if there is such a thing). But my SOUNDS have dramatically changed in that I make sounds I never would have menu-dove my way to on a virus or poly evolver (having owned both) but easily make on a modular. The reverse applies of course (especially with regards to polyphony) which is why I still have a Moog and a Virus for "normal" synthesized sounds that are done more easily on those.
Great post here and very true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I'm a bit like Line of control when it comes to my modular, although I'm fully aware of how techy you can get with things, I already know that getting bogged down with those things takes me away from being creative and pushing out completed tunes, I've come to learn that there must be a balance between a total nerd and knowing how every single tiny item works and keeping it simple and making music, I'm more of a look back and see my music across history compared to look how much I know about my gear kinda person, as they say though it takes all kinds..
Here's the thing, you can consider it getting bogged down, but it's just taking some time up front to actually understand a module. After that, it's really not bogging down your creativity - just opening up more options.

But I certainly understand your point, and say as long as you're enjoying yourself and not getting your car or house re-possessed buying modules, do what makes you happy!
Old 17th January 2017
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
Let me save you a million dollars ABSOLUTELY NOT NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS will "going modular" help you make a better song (IMO of course, and some caveats apply depending on genre) but that's really in the eyes and ears of each individual user. Most modular sequencers lack any sort of "song" mode, which is why I use my Octatrack to sequence my modular for song stuff. There are lots of other reasons of course but that's a pretty big one to me...

My songs were fine before modular, and will be fine after (if there is such a thing). But my SOUNDS have dramatically changed in that I make sounds I never would have menu-dove my way to on a virus or poly evolver (having owned both) but easily make on a modular. The reverse applies of course (especially with regards to polyphony) which is why I still have a Moog and a Virus for "normal" synthesized sounds that are done more easily on those.
Oh, and Stepper Acid has a song mode.
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Old 17th January 2017
  #591
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Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
Oh, and Stepper Acid has a song mode.
That's great to know. I'd love to know about any and all Eurorack sequencers that have song mode. When the top box is full <and assuming I get a job someday> I'll be adding a Doepfer monster base case that will be primarily controllers and sequencers. It would change the way I work completely and take Midi (and the Octatrack) out of the Eurorack equation...It will be a long time filling up that box considering how much each module costs though...


Anybody else know Euro sequencers with song mode? Not sure I'd need more than one or two. Still praying for that Elektron Euromachine.
Old 17th January 2017
  #592
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

The Audio Damage sequencer 1 seems to have a song mode.
Old 17th January 2017
  #593
WARNING: If you are easily offended or have strong religious convictions, DO NOT WATCH THIS! Just trying out stuff...

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Old 17th January 2017
  #594
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ngarjuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
The Audio Damage sequencer 1 seems to have a song mode.
Ish. Each pattern has an Actions menu where you can specify (after N steps) what it does next. It used to be constrained to its bank: next pattern, previous, first and last, random from bank. Now there's an additional action where you can actually sequence pattern by pattern regardless of bank storage. There's also a probability slider so that you can setup changes which are not 100% predetermined. Which is all very cool. But there's still no easy way to say "Play A1 for 8 bars, then switch to A2 for 16 bars, then A3 for 7 bars and fill the 8th with A4". I mean you could set that up with Actions and it's reasonably simple and linear so it wouldn't be very hard but where it gets to be difficult is if you want to repeat a part and have it lead to a different pattern than it switched to last time; no way to do that currently I don't think. Well you could (I have, in fact) copy the pattern so that say you have a pattern in A1 and A2 (identical) where A1 plays 8 bars and goes to A3 but A2 plays 4 bars and goes to A8. But you can imagine how convoluted this would get having the same part with different repetitions and/or different 'next pattern' settings.

For song mode (set it and forget it song sequencing) maybe not quite depending on your needs.

ETA: slaughtrhaus that's a very nice sequencing case! Here's a question: do any of them have pattern change on CV event? If so you could potentially setup a sequencer to sequence your sequencers (someone call Xzibit...).

Here's my latest, spent my weekend with Avalon and the modular. The tracking on Avalon...omgz
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Old 17th January 2017
  #595
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
OMG- reading that made my head hurt!!!

I don't have a Maths........Will all that help me make a better song? Or just a more weird sound?

Not being facetious just a serious question.
Maths was one of the first modules I bought because like other sticker shocked newbies I was going to "keep it limited to a skiff" and it looked like a great solution to EGs, LFOs and attenuators that was very space conscious. Not to mention all the hype. I survived for a long time with Peaks and Maths as my only mod sources.

Years and many HP later what I still use Maths for are exponential and logarithmic envelopes. The exp/log knob really opens up what you can do with an AD envelope. It's the kind of sound I would spend far too long trying to get in a mix using compressors and transient shapers - stabs that have that perfect attack and then decay smoothly into a mix leaving room for other sounds. If you already have a function generator that does that like Mini Slew, Function, Tides, I'm sure it's very similar. There are features of Maths I don't use very often (like the envelope followers) but they are there when I need them. Once you get past the lighting bolts and reputation, Maths is actually a fairly simple module. Certainly simpler that the menudivey Mutable stuff.
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Old 17th January 2017
  #596
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Kubase's Avatar
Maths was my first ever module, bought to fill up an ES beauty case and extend my semi modulars a bit. Many time units later, it's still one of my faves. Multiuseful.
Old 17th January 2017
  #597
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ngarjuna's Avatar
When I was getting started I was pretty underwhelmed by the idea of Maths and confused by all the "PM for Maths" jokes. But I figured 50,000,000 Elvis fans couldn't be wrong...and they aren't! It just all seemed so unlikely...the most popular module of the most popular modular format is a function generator with some utilities? Not a filter or some kind of ultra-crazy digital sound source?? But sure enough, there's a reason. Or more accurately there are many reasons...

What Subdo said about dialing in the envelope is 100% on the mark for me, I have never used an envelope I like better. And yeah, like Subdo I mostly use my Maths as envelopes anymore though it's very handy when I need a special function that Maths can provide (as I have other envelopes I can use in a pinch). And now I'm ready to add another (I'm actually going to get a Rampage instead of a second Maths for the tiny bit of variety but same concept) and another dual LPG.
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Old 17th January 2017
  #598
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I very rarely use Maths for envelopes these days. Mostly it gets used for turning events (e.g. Rungler output) into triggers or envelope-following. Also random inversion, attenuation or if I need a complex shape like the bouncing-ball patch.
Old 17th January 2017
  #599
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

My fave envelopes are in the Intellijel Dual ADSR. Love being able to SEE the shape of them instantly.
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Old 17th January 2017
  #600
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
OMG- reading that made my head hurt!!!

I don't have a Maths and now I can see why it would be useless for my poor little brain to comprehend. So much going on. I would never think of doing any of that stuff at all.
And the million dollar question is- Will all that help me make a better song? Or just a more weird sound?

Not being facetious just a serious question.
Maths owner but not a Maths-cultist here: Maths is great for newbies not because of how complicated it is, but because of how many functions it packs into one package. Think of it as a Disting before there was a Disting, but with a focus on practical things. At it's very core, Maths is a pair of envelopes that can be looped, but what makes Maths so useful is what those envelopes can do to each other, to signals, and even in spite of each other with the logic functions. It sounds complicated, but when you've got your hands on it, it really isn't. Will it help you make a better song? Probably not, but as Slaughtr points out, neither will modular as a whole. It does however provide you with the tools to improve that song. The sounds you can make with the Maths really aren't that weird. The reason I'm not a fan myself is that even though it does so much, Maths outputs pretty conventional CV signals.
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