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The Modular Thread 2017 Modular Synthesizers
Old 5th September 2017
  #5251
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMT75 View Post
I know that a drumrack can cost you a lot of money (not always....most of the modules I am planning to buy or that I allready have, are also for the two-voice in the same rack. So when I add a dedicated drummodule like Dinky Taiko I have a little drummachine and two-voice in one 6U rack), but hey the AR is really expensive .

Dinky's Taiko is a glitch monster. I don't usually try to do the complex glitchy thing but this jam just popped out of pure Dinky's noodling. It's out of the video frame but I have random CV going into the waveform and noise mix and the range of sounds it spits out is nuts.

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Old 5th September 2017
  #5252
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMT75 View Post
I know that a drumrack can cost you a lot of money (not always....most of the modules I am planning to buy or that I allready have, are also for the two-voice in the same rack. So when I add a dedicated drummodule like Dinky Taiko I have a little drummachine and two-voice in one 6U rack), but hey the AR is really expensive .
As I've said before, in the 30 years I've been doing music, the Analog Rytm is the first drum machine I've had where I didn't feel like I had to fall back on samples (and I can if I wanted). I'd also end up s plunge the old one so the total cost hit wouldn't be as bad.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5253
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subdo's Avatar
I'll be honest. Logic's Ultrabeat is really the first time I got drum synthesizers that were beyond a channel on a x0x. I still think it's one of the best.
But modular + drums is funAF. Here's the little story of mine. I still have Dinky's but I moved it out of the case. Entity is a bass monster which is one thing Dinky's isn't but I think they just need a bigger case.






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Old 6th September 2017
  #5254
SRT
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This just arrived. The protective casing was something I had not seen in Eurorack before, figured I'd share.
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5255
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I have a question about clock dividers. I got the 2hp clock divider/multiplier in today, and it's my first clock divider. Pretty awesome for being so small, and it's rad having CV control over the rate. However, like I said it's my first clock divider and I'm not sure if this is normal behavior or not. I'm sending a 4/4 gate sequence from the Squarp Pyramid via Yarns, and I have output 2 set to divide by 2 for a snare on 5 and 13. When I stop the sequence and then start it again, the clock divider catches the first gate and then starts dividing right away, making the snare come in off beat. I know multipliers basically calculate the difference between gates and thus need a full cycle of a steady clock to start working...I guess I would assume it's about the same with a clock divider, but since the 2hp module starts dividing the clock right after the first beat I'm not sure if this is normal behavior for a clock divider or something screwy with the module. There's basically no reviews of this module that I can find so it's hard to tell if it's user error or the module itself. Can anyone provide some insight?
Old 6th September 2017
  #5256
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent View Post
I have a question about clock dividers. I got the 2hp clock divider/multiplier in today, and it's my first clock divider. Pretty awesome for being so small, and it's rad having CV control over the rate. However, like I said it's my first clock divider and I'm not sure if this is normal behavior or not. I'm sending a 4/4 gate sequence from the Squarp Pyramid via Yarns, and I have output 2 set to divide by 2 for a snare on 5 and 13. When I stop the sequence and then start it again, the clock divider catches the first gate and then starts dividing right away, making the snare come in off beat. I know multipliers basically calculate the difference between gates and thus need a full cycle of a steady clock to start working...I guess I would assume it's about the same with a clock divider, but since the 2hp module starts dividing the clock right after the first beat I'm not sure if this is normal behavior for a clock divider or something screwy with the module. There's basically no reviews of this module that I can find so it's hard to tell if it's user error or the module itself. Can anyone provide some insight?
I don't know about the 2hp one but I have the A160-B and QCD. To get them to work consistently you have to send a reset trigger to tell it where the "one" is. All of the divisions will then be in relationship to that reset. To get off beat triggers like 5 and 13 you may have use a delay like the A162 or send a reset on the off beat rather than 1.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5257
There are a few interesting Noise Engineering logic/rhythmic modules.
'Numeric Repetitor' for example.
You could definitely get them to trigger events on odd beats.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRT View Post
This just arrived. The protective casing was something I had not seen in Eurorack before, figured I'd share.

Congrats on the purchase. It's great sounding kick and one of my favorite moudles sound wise, it just sounds right IMHO of course. Then there is the hexinverter BD909 which also sounds great but it's really different from this. Nice cv inputs as well, i heard many people use these for bass as well with longer decay and they surely fit in nicely for that.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5259
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Raleigh's Avatar
Well, I've finally started my modular, so far I have the power... Its just a switch that goes on, and off and lights up a red led. No joking actually!
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5260
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by subdo View Post
I don't know about the 2hp one but I have the A160-B and QCD. To get them to work consistently you have to send a reset trigger to tell it where the "one" is. All of the divisions will then be in relationship to that reset. To get off beat triggers like 5 and 13 you may have use a delay like the A162 or send a reset on the off beat rather than 1.
Though you can do some simple sequencing with a clock divider, it's not really what they're for. If you don't have one already, it sounds like it's time to get a Beatstep Pro. Everyone with a modular should probably have one of those things. They may not be the best of sequencers, but you can't beat the price / functionality quotient.
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5261
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raleigh View Post
Well, I've finally started my modular, so far I have the power... Its just a switch that goes on, and off and lights up a red led. No joking actually!
As simple as it is, its the most important switch in your system
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5262
Hey guys I could use some input. I'm getting close to done with the box and I wanted you to check out where I am in the process and then suggest options I haven't thought of...Not just categories of modules-obviously I need more drum sounds, envelopes, etc (or maybe not)...I have my own ideas, what would you pick?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/312388
That's where I am now. It's a live performance case- essentially a giant groovebox. What's missing in your view? What would you just HAVE to have to make this work for you? I'm curious to know some alternative perspectives before I buy anything else and limit my options on HP space...

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Old 6th September 2017
  #5263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent View Post
I have a question about clock dividers. I got the 2hp clock divider/multiplier in today, and it's my first clock divider. Pretty awesome for being so small, and it's rad having CV control over the rate. However, like I said it's my first clock divider and I'm not sure if this is normal behavior or not. I'm sending a 4/4 gate sequence from the Squarp Pyramid via Yarns, and I have output 2 set to divide by 2 for a snare on 5 and 13. When I stop the sequence and then start it again, the clock divider catches the first gate and then starts dividing right away, making the snare come in off beat. I know multipliers basically calculate the difference between gates and thus need a full cycle of a steady clock to start working...I guess I would assume it's about the same with a clock divider, but since the 2hp module starts dividing the clock right after the first beat I'm not sure if this is normal behavior for a clock divider or something screwy with the module. There's basically no reviews of this module that I can find so it's hard to tell if it's user error or the module itself. Can anyone provide some insight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by subdo View Post
I don't know about the 2hp one but I have the A160-B and QCD. To get them to work consistently you have to send a reset trigger to tell it where the "one" is. All of the divisions will then be in relationship to that reset. To get off beat triggers like 5 and 13 you may have use a delay like the A162 or send a reset on the off beat rather than 1.

Agree with Subdo- resets are your friend(s). I use the bottom channel of my QCD (set to a really slow pulse like /32 or /16) just for reset pulses (sent to 4 different things) and it's the only way to get everything to play nice. Even then sometimes it takes a full cycle for everything to line up in my setup, I just press play with everything turned all the way down and then bring sounds in after a complete cycle. Once it is lined up it usually stays that way...
Old 6th September 2017
  #5264
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TMT75's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
Hey guys I could use some input. I'm getting close to done with the box and I wanted you to check out where I am in the process and then suggest options I haven't thought of...Not just categories of modules-obviously I need more drum sounds, envelopes, etc (or maybe not)...I have my own ideas, what would you pick?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/312388
That's where I am now. It's a live performance case- essentially a giant groovebox. What's missing in your view? What would you just HAVE to have to make this work for you? I'm curious to know some alternative perspectives before I buy anything else and limit my options on HP space...

I really like your groovebox.
Not out yet, but Permutation by Grayscale would fit nice in your case imo.....12 hp and 18 hp version.
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5265
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Nice rack.

IMHO you could use a sequential switch, some logic since you have drums and drum sequencing in the rig so you can add some nice variation to your drum sequences, for sure some attenuation which can also be modulated (like blinds from MI), a module like coldmac which when sent a cv can modulate multiple modules at once, it's not a multiplier but sends different cvs to different modules based on cv'ing its survey knob. Since this is a live case i can see that the only melodic sequencer that you have is the stepper acid. Is that enough? You can only do one melodic line, probably it will do an acid line . I would put a second sequencer. Depending on the budget, moskwa is very good for modulation also not just melodies or the eloquencer (will be taking more hp though) which is also more expensive but it will overlap others. I would swap the trigger riot and z8000 with the eloquencer and save some hp.

Else i think it's a very nice case.

Oh, a second digital oscillator. Make your pick, I'd try loquelic iteritas mk2 or e350.

My 2c.
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
Agree with Subdo- resets are your friend(s). I use the bottom channel of my QCD (set to a really slow pulse like /32 or /16) just for reset pulses (sent to 4 different things) and it's the only way to get everything to play nice. Even then sometimes it takes a full cycle for everything to line up in my setup, I just press play with everything turned all the way down and then bring sounds in after a complete cycle. Once it is lined up it usually stays that way...
That may the problem then, since there is no reset on the 2hp Div. Bummer. It could also be that it's not playing nice with the gates out of Yarns. I'll have to experiment with other clock sources this evening and see if I get better results.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
It's a live performance case- essentially a giant groovebox. What's missing in your view? What would you just HAVE to have to make this work for you?
I'd get the QCD expander and a WMD SSM+SSM expander. Would be tempted to add a Frequency Central Bartos Flur
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5268
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMT75 View Post
I really like your groovebox.
Not out yet, but Permutation by Grayscale would fit nice in your case imo.....12 hp and 18 hp version.
Thanks. Never heard of it, didn't even know Grayscale made proper modules. I'll check it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyFM View Post
Nice rack.

IMHO you could use a sequential switch, some logic since you have drums and drum sequencing in the rig so you can add some nice variation to your drum sequences, for sure some attenuation which can also be modulated (like blinds from MI), a module like coldmac which when sent a cv can modulate multiple modules at once, it's not a multiplier but sends different cvs to different modules based on cv'ing its survey knob. Since this is a live case i can see that the only melodic sequencer that you have is the stepper acid. Is that enough? You can only do one melodic line, probably it will do an acid line . I would put a second sequencer. Depending on the budget, moskwa is very good for modulation also not just melodies or the eloquencer (will be taking more hp though) which is also more expensive but it will overlap others. I would swap the trigger riot and z8000 with the eloquencer and save some hp.

Else i think it's a very nice case.

Oh, a second digital oscillator. Make your pick, I'd try loquelic iteritas mk2 or e350.

My 2c.
Hey thanks for the in-depth response.

Sequencing-I use the Stepper to drive the uScale A input, so it is actually in charge of the key/chord changes, sometimes I mult it out to a single sound source too. I use the sequential switch (a second one is already in my plan for rhythms)on the bottom row to drive the "b" input of uscale (sometimes an interval, sometimes shifting the root), fed by both 16-step sequences and a couple 4-step sequences for the Z8000 all clocked differently for opposing melodies. Those outputs go to Beasts Chalkboard then out to the sound sources. The result is extremely fun to play but admittedly more difficult to control than I thought it might be. Eloquencer was my original plan but it has 2 strikes against it at this point- It came out too late. When I was buying my sequencers it still wasn't available and then the thing happened where some came up and were gone in 6 hours and I never got an email so i said fvck that. The other thing is philosophy. When my Eloquencer dream broke, so did the idea of putting in a bunch of predetermined sequences, instead I am fully improvisational at this point (except choosing a key and a scale to jam in beforehand usually). Trigger Riot/Z8k are a great combo to improv with too. I blame Mylarmelodies.

Oscillator- I have a Dixie II in my case plan that I was thinking about getting next...but I'm interested in why would you go digital?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold View Post
I'd get the QCD expander and a WMD SSM+SSM expander. Would be tempted to add a Frequency Central Bartos Flur
Thanks. I'll look them up.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5269
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
Hey guys I could use some input. I'm getting close to done with the box and I wanted you to check out where I am in the process and then suggest options I haven't thought of...Not just categories of modules-obviously I need more drum sounds, envelopes, etc (or maybe not)...I have my own ideas, what would you pick?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/312388
That's where I am now. It's a live performance case- essentially a giant groovebox. What's missing in your view? What would you just HAVE to have to make this work for you? I'm curious to know some alternative perspectives before I buy anything else and limit my options on HP space...

Trying to Grok someone else's rack, especially when they don't lay it out right (meaning my way ), is always difficult.

If it were my rack, I'd add another block of VCA's, maybe Blinds. I'd echo getting the expanders for your QCD and Quadra. How about a noise source, either for hats and snares, or as an exciter for Rings. Rings + Noise makes a great recreation of the DM / table saw sample / lead voice (think "Question of Time").

Arpitecht with Triads or O_C would be great for reigning in all those voices to a pre-defined scale or chord. A precision adder like Links, or SSM would give you more flexibility with your sequencers. Finally, I'd add a *good* sample player, something that streams from the SD like a Disting Mk4 or Music Thing Radio Music. Adding long / random samples behind a patch can really make thing more interesting from time to time.
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5270
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
Thanks. Never heard of it, didn't even know Grayscale made proper modules. I'll check it out.


Hey thanks for the in-depth response.

Sequencing-I use the Stepper to drive the uScale A input, so it is actually in charge of the key/chord changes, sometimes I mult it out to a single sound source too. I use the sequential switch (a second one is already in my plan for rhythms)on the bottom row to drive the "b" input of uscale (sometimes an interval, sometimes shifting the root), fed by both 16-step sequences and a couple 4-step sequences for the Z8000 all clocked differently for opposing melodies. Those outputs go to Beasts Chalkboard then out to the sound sources. The result is extremely fun to play but admittedly more difficult to control than I thought it might be. Eloquencer was my original plan but it has 2 strikes against it at this point- It came out too late. When I was buying my sequencers it still wasn't available and then the thing happened where some came up and were gone in 6 hours and I never got an email so i said fvck that. The other thing is philosophy. When my Eloquencer dream broke, so did the idea of putting in a bunch of predetermined sequences, instead I am fully improvisational at this point (except choosing a key and a scale to jam in beforehand usually). Trigger Riot/Z8k are a great combo to improv with too. I blame Mylarmelodies.

Oscillator- I have a Dixie II in my case plan that I was thinking about getting next...but I'm interested in why would you go digital?



Thanks. I'll look them up.
If you want a second digital OSC, nothing beats Klavis Twin Wave in terms of HP and costs. It's like a baby Braids x 2.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent View Post
That may the problem then, since there is no reset on the 2hp Div. Bummer. It could also be that it's not playing nice with the gates out of Yarns. I'll have to experiment with other clock sources this evening and see if I get better results.
No reset huh, that seems unusual to me for a clocked module but I haven't seen everything. Must be a size constraint.

Definitely try all your clocks. One will be better than the others at driving the whole thing. Not sure if Yarns does this but try adjusting the pulse width of the gate or switching to a trigger instead. I had to figure this out to get my Trigger Riot playing nice with others.
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5272
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
No reset huh, that seems unusual to me for a clocked module but I haven't seen everything. Must be a size constraint.

Definitely try all your clocks. One will be better than the others at driving the whole thing. Not sure if Yarns does this but try adjusting the pulse width of the gate or switching to a trigger instead. I had to figure this out to get my Trigger Riot playing nice with others.
Yarns is like the Doepfer clocks, super solid and stable. If something doesn't work with it, it's usually not their fault.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
No reset huh, that seems unusual to me for a clocked module but I haven't seen everything. Must be a size constraint.

Definitely try all your clocks. One will be better than the others at driving the whole thing. Not sure if Yarns does this but try adjusting the pulse width of the gate or switching to a trigger instead. I had to figure this out to get my Trigger Riot playing nice with others.
Just took another look at the Yarns manual and there's a few options for sending triggers or clock instead of gates. Thanks for the tip, hopefully that solves it!
Old 6th September 2017
  #5274
First off that Klavis...wow. I think so, sir, great pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
Trying to Grok someone else's rack, especially when they don't lay it out right (meaning my way ), is always difficult.
Haha! What's your way? I know the "normal" way I observe the most is oscillators on top and then the chain goes down...there's a method to my madness though, I swear. As it is a live case I need to leave it patched and need to be able to close the lid. If you look at the path of clocks to sequencers to quantizers to voices to filters to mixer, the setup I have allows for the shortest cables possible which reduces the amount of "extra" cable just taking up space. That's not to say it couldn't be done a little better, but there are only a couple ways these particular modules will fit together in a case due to the sheer size of some them too. That being said am very curious how you and others would rearrange my case physically...

Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
If it were my rack, I'd add another block of VCA's, maybe Blinds. I'd echo getting the expanders for your QCD and Quadra. How about a noise source, either for hats and snares, or as an exciter for Rings. Rings + Noise makes a great recreation of the DM / table saw sample / lead voice (think "Question of Time").

Arpitecht with Triads or O_C would be great for reigning in all those voices to a pre-defined scale or chord. A precision adder like Links, or SSM would give you more flexibility with your sequencers. Finally, I'd add a *good* sample player, something that streams from the SD like a Disting Mk4 or Music Thing Radio Music. Adding long / random samples behind a patch can really make thing more interesting from time to time.
I'm not too keen on using samples honestly. It's nothing like a rule or a philosophy (i.e. not some analog v dig garbage). I had a Tiptop One in the plan for drum duty but removed it because quite frankly I don't enjoy the process of finding/field recording/choosing samples. I love the end result when it's done well, just not really my bag. I'm still thinking about it though.

Quadraxpander and a 2nd Veils or a Blinds is also in the plan. I know I will use the features of the expander on the quadra...the 2nd veils or a blinds not so much. I know I know...can't have enough VCA's...except I rarely use them, most things in my rig that need attenuation already come with it. Not sure what will happen there.

A 2nd quantizer is also in the plan, I was originally thinking a second uScale but also maybe the Tiptop version. The O_C and Disting are non-starters for me based on interface, it's too hard to keep track of those types of modules in pressured situations.I'll look at Arpitect and Triads for sure. Thanks for the ideas.
Old 6th September 2017
  #5275
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
First off that Klavis...wow. I think so, sir, great pick.



Haha! What's your way? I know the "normal" way I observe the most is oscillators on top and then the chain goes down...there's a method to my madness though, I swear. As it is a live case I need to leave it patched and need to be able to close the lid. If you look at the path of clocks to sequencers to quantizers to voices to filters to mixer, the setup I have allows for the shortest cables possible which reduces the amount of "extra" cable just taking up space. That's not to say it couldn't be done a little better, but there are only a couple ways these particular modules will fit together in a case due to the sheer size of some them too. That being said am very curious how you and others would rearrange my case physically...



I'm not too keen on using samples honestly. It's nothing like a rule or a philosophy (i.e. not some analog v dig garbage). I had a Tiptop One in the plan for drum duty but removed it because quite frankly I don't enjoy the process of finding/field recording/choosing samples. I love the end result when it's done well, just not really my bag. I'm still thinking about it though.

Quadraxpander and a 2nd Veils or a Blinds is also in the plan. I know I will use the features of the expander on the quadra...the 2nd veils or a blinds not so much. I know I know...can't have enough VCA's...except I rarely use them, most things in my rig that need attenuation already come with it. Not sure what will happen there.

A 2nd quantizer is also in the plan, I was originally thinking a second uScale but also maybe the Tiptop version. The O_C and Disting are non-starters for me based on interface, it's too hard to keep track of those types of modules in pressured situations.I'll look at Arpitect and Triads for sure. Thanks for the ideas.
There's a huge library for the Radio Music -- https://github.com/TomWhitwell/Radio...llateral/Audio
pretty much all you'd ever need for the tape loop effect.

As for the VCAs, if you want to make a voice stereo, you'd use up two right there. Want to do some side-chaining effects, that's another VCA. Then there's wave shaping with VCA's. I'm definitely not the VCA expert yet, but I'll burn thru the 8 physical VCAs I have pretty quickly and end up using the ER-301 when I run out.

As for the O_c, you're one of those guys , oh well.
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Old 6th September 2017
  #5276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post

Oscillator- I have a Dixie II in my case plan that I was thinking about getting next...but I'm interested in why would you go digital?



I said digital oscillators because with the standard analog ones the sound palette is not that diverse with only pwm and fm.

One of my favorite sounds in my rack are e350 through optomix hit by an envelope and sent to DLD from 4ms. With an lfo modulating the waveform on the e350, the sounds change very pleasantly in time and the optomix gives the sound an analog flavor too. You have the complex oscillator from endorphines which i didn't try but i use other complex oscillators and they sound really good but harder to mix IMHO of course.

So i think there are sounds to explore with digital oscillators, you won't like them all but there are some good ones in euro land. My picks are e350 and loquelic iteritas, i am sure there are many more nice ones.

I really liked your approach with using something else instead of the eloquencer. I didn't know much about it when it came out and when i read into the hype, it was out of stock too. One day maybe .
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Old 7th September 2017
  #5277
SRT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyFM View Post
Congrats on the purchase. It's great sounding kick and one of my favorite moudles sound wise, it just sounds right IMHO of course. Then there is the hexinverter BD909 which also sounds great but it's really different from this. Nice cv inputs as well, i heard many people use these for bass as well with longer decay and they surely fit in nicely for that.
I think it is a nice contrast to the Jomox kick module which I also have. The Jomox is dark and deep, can sound muffled and needs processing or layering. The tk01 seems more punchy and in your face. I could be wrong, but the hex inverter appears to be best suited for 909 through a Mackie types of kicks which I loved back in the day. But at this point I am more interested in a clean modern thumper with a solid attack.

I am considering the Dijkstar clap module. I already have a Vermona DRM1, but the Dijkstar module can do somethings it can't with some CV control...very tempting.
Old 7th September 2017
  #5278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRT View Post
I think it is a nice contrast to the Jomox kick module which I also have. The Jomox is dark and deep, can sound muffled and needs processing or layering. The tk01 seems more punchy and in your face. I could be wrong, but the hex inverter appears to be best suited for 909 through a Mackie types of kicks which I loved back in the day. But at this point I am more interested in a clean modern thumper with a solid attack.

I am considering the Dijkstar clap module. I already have a Vermona DRM1, but the Dijkstar module can do somethings it can't with some CV control...very tempting.
I also have the drm1 and the dijkstar clap. They are keepers. Something nice about these modules is that they are analog, they sound good and will not be over shadowed by a version 2 or 3 because they already have all they need.

The clap sounds good too, it's worth it if you are after an analog clap (808ish). And i agree, the dijkstar kick does sound modern, i really really like it. One needs more than one kick module though imho
Old 7th September 2017
  #5279
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needs a new pamela's workout, more clock, more % probability (slave it )
needs a O_c, just do it. you don't have to keep it in every mode, just one. just for envelopes it's a beast.
needs more vca, intellijel quad vca
and get the expander for the intellijel quad envelope.
and get a E352 for a huge wavetable pallet
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Old 7th September 2017
  #5280
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gruvsyco's Avatar
"Only a test" from James Cigler over the weekend.

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