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The Modular Thread 2017 Modular Synthesizers
Old 12th January 2017
  #421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubase View Post
Not quite sure how it works,but from the ES website:

"The ESX-8CV is an expansion module for the ES-4, ES-40 or ES-5, adding eight CV outputs from one expansion header.
In order to squeeze eight 12 bit channels through one 8 bit connection, the channels are time-multiplexed and so effectively run at between one-third and one-twenty fourth of the audio sample rate. For example, if the audio interface/DAW is running at 48kHz, the ESX-8CV's outputs are running at between 16kHz and 2kHz, depending on how many channels are active. This is still plenty fast enough for most CV purposes, except for audio-rate modulation and the very fastest envelopes."

If you're after the ES calibration for analogue oscs then one ES-3/5 combo will give you basic CV/gate control for six oscillators, with two ES-5 outputs left over for clock, gate or trig signals. Adding the ESX-8CV expander to the ES-5 will allow for basic CV/gate control of ten oscillators, or nine if you want to leave two outputs free for clock, etc. This will use up an ADAT OUT port on your interface. I don't send CVs into the DAW so don't know much about that, but it looks like you still need a single ES-3, the ES-6 itself and the ES-7 if you want to go from six channels to eight.

I think you are basically right.
I have a single ES4 and it outputs plenty of cv's and gates for my needs. If you need more the expansions are very affordable.
You can find ES stuff secondhand too.
For what it does, the ES stuff is very reasonably priced IMO.
I only use ES modules to control my system, I don't use them as inputs into the system.
Finally, you may not want Expert Sleepers to control all the functions in a patch. So a combination of ES pitch, envelopes and lfo's combined with hardware module envelopes and lfo's (etc) can easily produce very complex patches, just from one main ES module (ES3 or 4) plus expanders.
Old 12th January 2017
  #422
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Endorfinity's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubase View Post
Not quite sure how it works,but from the ES website:

"The ESX-8CV is an expansion module for the ES-4, ES-40 or ES-5, adding eight CV outputs from one expansion header.
In order to squeeze eight 12 bit channels through one 8 bit connection, the channels are time-multiplexed and so effectively run at between one-third and one-twenty fourth of the audio sample rate. For example, if the audio interface/DAW is running at 48kHz, the ESX-8CV's outputs are running at between 16kHz and 2kHz, depending on how many channels are active. This is still plenty fast enough for most CV purposes, except for audio-rate modulation and the very fastest envelopes."
Once I've managed to run several audiosignals through ESX-8CV. ****storm of aliasing, but hey at least that's possible!
Old 12th January 2017
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 View Post
I'm going to have to update one of my DM mixes once I finish building out my 12u ... probably yet another version of Enjoy.
You might want to watch this then...

Last edited by lineofcontrol; 12th January 2017 at 05:50 PM..
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Old 12th January 2017
  #424
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ngarjuna's Avatar
Another potential solution could be chaining 828s, no? You can get 828 mk ii's for pennies on the dollar; just ADAT a few of those together (how many can you chain, three I believe?) and you'll have 32x32 without spending one hp of Eurorack space. Not sure what the ES modules are running right now but probably more expensive than an 828 mk. ii I'd bet.

As far as Doepfer...I don't own any yet but I have a few modules on my master plan; in fact the a196 is probably coming sooner rather than later. In addition to all the usual VCO/VCF/VCA stuff they also make some really space efficient specialty modules (I don't really know any of the model numbers which, sorry Dieter, is a stupid way to market an otherwise excellent synthesizer brand): the dual Sample and Hold (in 4hp!), the PLL module, the crazy Vocoding sub-system come to mind off the top of my head. Also a good variety of 'bread and butter' stuff like VCAs, mixers, LFOs, switches ranging from budget modules to those with some very esoteric features (matrix VCA or quadrature LFO).
Old 12th January 2017
  #425
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Doepfer should sort their branding out imo, they're up against some companies who are outdoing them on this front.

EDIT - the branding per se doesn't put me off, but I kinda phase out on modular grid when I see all the A-XXX-Xs.

Last edited by Kubase; 12th January 2017 at 01:55 PM.. Reason: Expanded
Old 12th January 2017
  #426
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BigSteak's Avatar
 

Yeah I have a Doepfer Precision Adder and I can't recall the model number
Old 12th January 2017
  #427
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
You might want to watch this then...
this video does not work for me..??
Old 12th January 2017
  #428
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubnspace View Post
Also, the ESX8GT Gate expanders are less than half the price of the ESX8CV CV expanders (on juno.co.uk for example its $55 vs $130), wouldn't you want a combo of CV and Gate expanders for what you're trying to do?
My thinking was that CV expanders could double as gates? I now with CV sequencers, I've done that using my Oberkorn as a five channel gate sequencer instead of three CV's and two gates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubnspace View Post
At any rate, i'd specifically ask in the Expert Sleepers forum on Muffs about your proposed setup and Os is great at responding there.
I just posted there, so hopefully I'll get some clarity soon.
Old 12th January 2017
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubase View Post
Doepfer should sort their branding out imo, they're up against some companies who are outdoing them on this front.

EDIT - the branding per se doesn't put me off, but I kinda phase out on modular grid when I see all the A-XXX-Xs.
So true. I know the names of literally hundreds of modules but have NO CLUE what the Doepfer stuff is because it is just numbers.

And a pet peeve of mine is that on Muff's when people are talking about or especially selling a module they will say something like "Got a new Doepfer A117!"

WTF is that??? LFO, Osc, Filter? Tell me!!!!!
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Old 12th January 2017
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
this video does not work for me..??
Changed the link- works now! Sorry .

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Old 12th January 2017
  #431
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty.west View Post
I've gotta' ask... what's the general consensus re: Doepfer? Assume you had an unlimited amount of cash to assemble a system, would there be any Doepfer modules you'd still include? My goal is to really make a no compromises (in any way) system and don't want to let economics dictate what I get- I know that sounds snobby, but it's not meant to be, just trying to get across a point. I've read that at some point years ago there was a bad batch of metal which resulted in some dodgy pots/shafts, so am wondering what years that occurred/what years to avoid? I know more $ doesn't equal 'better' in a lot of cases, but I just am trying to get some objective opinions on the matter. Is a Cwejman VCO, Filter, VCA, etc. night and day better than a Doepfer one w/ same functions?

...and can anyone maybe comment re: the A-106-6 Xpander filter? Picking out a filter is proving to be the hardest decision for me in starting a system, but I was recommended that by a Euro-geek friend whose opinion I trust. He has some very pricey modules/synths and highly recommends some of the D stuff, money-aside. What I found so cool to learn was that Doepfer is using through-hole- it's just something I prefer when possible. Another module my buddy recommended was the A-141-2.
Doepfer is great for no frills, single use modules. For just about everything you could imagine in eurorack, it seems like there a Doepfer module for it. On top of it, Doepfer stuff is really cost effective, at least here in the states right now.

As for filters in general, there's just so much out there and they're really susceptible to "module of the month" type hype. After saying that, I'm going to just continue to propagate the "module of the month" hype . You should take a look at the WMD Aperture. I don't personally have one, but it seems like an extremely capable and flexible filter for a starting system.
Old 12th January 2017
  #432
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void23's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
Changed the link- works now! Sorry .

I think I got a bit closer on my attempt using the A4 in this mix.
Old 12th January 2017
  #433
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty.west View Post
I've gotta' ask... what's the general consensus re: Doepfer?
If I had all the money in the world, there are only a handful of manufacturers for whom I would want to make a complete system using just their modules: EMW, Studio Electronics, Dot Com, and Doepfer. Those are the ones I have found have consistently high-quality, long-lasting, trouble-free operation while having enough variety in their module selection to cover all the bases in utility, and a few adventurous modules as well. I've got a lot of Doepfer in my rack and they see a lot of use. Some of the ones I could never live without are the Quad VCA, the Quad LFO, the Bit Modifier, the Wasp filter, and the SSM filter.
Old 12th January 2017
  #434
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarjuna View Post
Another potential solution could be chaining 828s, no? You can get 828 mk ii's for pennies on the dollar; just ADAT a few of those together (how many can you chain, three I believe?) and you'll have 32x32 without spending one hp of Eurorack space. Not sure what the ES modules are running right now but probably more expensive than an 828 mk. ii I'd bet.
This is an option that's on my radar as well as they look much cheaper than ES units. Those old 24 I/O's run cheap now and can be stacked. Three of those, and I could have 24 channels of I/O for my whole system, plus 24 CV outs, 24 gate outs, and 48 inputs just for the modular. My only concern there is that while my experience with MOTU is very limited, that experience includes buying an interface that had just been discontinued and finding no driver support. I don't even see a Legacy/Discontinued section on their website so if the interface I buy has no drivers included, then what? And what about if I buy one that's still being made and then switch computers?

Man, it's sh*t like this that made me give up on DAW's in the first place. I'm already having second thoughts about this whole plan.
Old 12th January 2017
  #435
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ngarjuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
This is an option that's on my radar as well as they look much cheaper than ES units. Those old 24 I/O's run cheap now and can be stacked. Three of those, and I could have 24 channels of I/O for my whole system, plus 24 CV outs, 24 gate outs, and 48 inputs just for the modular. My only concern there is that while my experience with MOTU is very limited, that experience includes buying an interface that had just been discontinued and finding no driver support. I don't even see a Legacy/Discontinued section on their website so if the interface I buy has no drivers included, then what? And what about if I buy one that's still being made and then switch computers?

Man, it's sh*t like this that made me give up on DAW's in the first place. I'm already having second thoughts about this whole plan.
Has been a while since I dealt with light pipe daisy chaining but doesn't only the "main" interface need to be driver'd? I was under the impression everything else just piped into the Toslink or didn't. I don't recall installing extra drivers for the preamp/interface extenders I used to use, though. Plus (maybe a good thing) I think the MOTU drivers cover the whole range of 828s so there's a decent chance one MOTU driver will rule the whole range. I don't have an old mk ii or I'd try it out for you (though I keep threatening to buy one for extra SW ins/outs).

But yeah, I didn't even think about the 24x24s. A couple MOTUs might just be the way to go.
Old 12th January 2017
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Man, it's sh*t like this that made me give up on DAW's in the first place. I'm already having second thoughts about this whole plan.
I have a hunch that we're going to see a pretty major shake up in computer connectivity in the next few years. The "usb-c only" macbooks are writing on the wall to me. I'm going to hold off replacing my outdated audio interface or my laptop until I see if these types of ports become the new standard or apple just went rogue on the whole industry. It'll be interesting if we start to see usb-c interfaces at NAMM.

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Old 12th January 2017
  #437
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ngarjuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
So true. I know the names of literally hundreds of modules but have NO CLUE what the Doepfer stuff is because it is just numbers.

And a pet peeve of mine is that on Muff's when people are talking about or especially selling a module they will say something like "Got a new Doepfer A117!"

WTF is that??? LFO, Osc, Filter? Tell me!!!!!
It took the Analogue Haven website to clue me in to this but:
A10x - Filters
A11x - Sound sources, modifiers
A12x - Filters (not sure if they just ran out of digits and made more filters or if there's a difference between the 10x and 12x categories)
A13x - VCAs, mixers, modifiers
A14x - LFOs, modulation sources
A15x - Switches and sequencers
A16x - Clock, gate and logic
A17x - Voltage sources (includes slew limiters, joystick, wheels)
A18x - Auxiliary modules (includes mults, attenuators, scalers, precision adder, effects)
A19x - Special modules (includes MIDI, PLL, ribbon controllers, spring verb)

Even considering the sub-organization (which the inner OCD in me appreciates) it's simply a horrible way to sell modules and I fully agree that at least some of the criticism of Doepfer as a brand comes simply down to the fact that their naming scheme is entirely forgettable.
Old 12th January 2017
  #438
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty.west View Post
...and can anyone maybe comment re: the A-106-6 Xpander filter? Picking out a filter is proving to be the hardest decision for me in starting a system, but I was recommended that by a Euro-geek friend whose opinion I trust. He has some very pricey modules/synths and highly recommends some of the D stuff, money-aside. What I found so cool to learn was that Doepfer is using through-hole- it's just something I prefer when possible. Another module my buddy recommended was the A-141-2.
Recommend if your on the fence that much about it, and cost isn't a consideration, buy more than one.
Old 12th January 2017
  #439
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarjuna View Post
Has been a while since I dealt with light pipe daisy chaining but doesn't only the "main" interface need to be driver'd? I was under the impression everything else just piped into the Toslink or didn't. I don't recall installing extra drivers for the preamp/interface extenders I used to use, though. Plus (maybe a good thing) I think the MOTU drivers cover the whole range of 828s so there's a decent chance one MOTU driver will rule the whole range. I don't have an old mk ii or I'd try it out for you (though I keep threatening to buy one for extra SW ins/outs).

But yeah, I didn't even think about the 24x24s. A couple MOTUs might just be the way to go.
You're right regarding lightpipe daisy chaining, but them MOTU interfaces that are 24x24 don't even have lightpipe I/O on them.
Old 12th January 2017
  #440
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Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by subdo View Post
...until I see if these types of ports become the new standard or apple just went rogue on the whole industry.
Probably the latter, but the industry ends up following suit because music has become so Mac-centric. Remember when Apple decided to change up the connections on their iPhones and rendered thousands of accessories that were still on the market useless in one fell swoop? They're all making them with the new plug though, aren't they? Not that interface manufacturers are known to stay current anyway. When I bought my last computer, I popped it open to install my PCI card from the last computer just to find that there were only PCI-E slots. That card was still being manufactured and the manufacturer hadn't announced plans to switch PCI-E yet, so I had to get a Firewire interface.
Old 12th January 2017
  #441
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarjuna View Post
It took the Analogue Haven website to clue me in to this but:
A10x - Filters
A11x - Sound sources, modifiers
A12x - Filters (not sure if they just ran out of digits and made more filters or if there's a difference between the 10x and 12x categories)
A13x - VCAs, mixers, modifiers
A14x - LFOs, modulation sources
A15x - Switches and sequencers
A16x - Clock, gate and logic
A17x - Voltage sources (includes slew limiters, joystick, wheels)
A18x - Auxiliary modules (includes mults, attenuators, scalers, precision adder, effects)
A19x - Special modules (includes MIDI, PLL, ribbon controllers, spring verb)

Even considering the sub-organization (which the inner OCD in me appreciates) it's simply a horrible way to sell modules and I fully agree that at least some of the criticism of Doepfer as a brand comes simply down to the fact that their naming scheme is entirely forgettable.
Precisely! Forgettable is the problem. Which is a shame because the quality is excellent.

The each need names and some coloured knobs and faceplates and they are set.
Old 12th January 2017
  #442
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Why even have an A in these names if it never changes?

Would be better with F for filters, O for osc, E, L, A(mp), S, etc.
Old 12th January 2017
  #443
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subdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineofcontrol View Post
Precisely! Forgettable is the problem. Which is a shame because the quality is excellent.

The each need names and some coloured knobs and faceplates and they are set.
This is their answer to colored knobs
(which BTW are called a-100k__)
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Old 12th January 2017
  #444
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Derp's Avatar
Man, you guys' obsession with colors, names, and materials is hilarious. No wood, must be monochrome, must have colored knobs, needs a fancy name... I'm gonna make you guys the ultimate multiples module:

It's gonna be 42hp, and only have a 1x3 configuration, but it's silver aluminum, has red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet knobs that are connected to nothing, has a Calibri font, and will be named THE ATOMIC BUTNUSTER 6001.5!!!!!!!!!

List price is $450, but with you guys, I full expect to sell out of all 200,000 of them in seconds. They'll command insane secondhand prices, more than a JP8 even!
Old 12th January 2017
  #445
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As far as the Doepfer question.

I have no Doepfer Modules yet, however looking at them they just use the same components as any other manufacturer so theres no reason why the quality wouldn't be any different.

actually i do have the XAOC Karl Marx Stadt which it just a faceplate for a complete Doepfer voice, and the PCB is well constructed.
Old 12th January 2017
  #446
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Initially I too found the Doepfer module coding confusing but after owning quite a few you get used to it. Remember Doepfer pretty much started Eurorack and that was the naming system that made sense to him at the time when he had to make it all up as he went along.

I'm a bit of a Doepfer fanboy so they can pretty much do no wrong in my eyes so just ****ing buy some of their modules FFS
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Old 12th January 2017
  #447
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Doepfer makes good stuff. I've got three of their modules in my modular and a few more on the want list. I have no qualms using their stuff for utility-type functionality, although I've not heard a VCO from them that I consider worthy - that's a highly personal thing. (I do have the Wasp filter) The only "build issue" I've heard of with Doepfer is the Wasp filter ICs have a tendency to fry for no given reason. It's easy enough to swap out the ICs. Outside of that, I tend to think they're stuff is fairly basic - even in the utility world. It seems other manufacturers have put out modules with more functionality. And IME, they could do more in smaller spaces. This could go both ways - you might like a well spaced panel. Or, you may be trying to get the most bang for your HP.

I've got the quantizer which is very basic functionality compared to others, the A-135-1 quad VCA (great VCA with gain, but way too big for me hp-wise at this point) and the Wasp filter. The Spring Reverb, precision adder, T&H and PLL are all or have been on my interest list. Plusses for Doepfer - they're usually pretty good on the wallet compared to others.
Old 13th January 2017
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
I tend to think they're stuff is fairly basic - even in the utility world. It seems other manufacturers have put out modules with more functionality. And IME, they could do more in smaller spaces. This could go both ways - you might like a well spaced panel. Or, you may be trying to get the most bang for your HP.
I think the reason for this is something I picked up from a NAMM video Dieter Doepfer did, Dieter is a 100% Analog man and like mentioned earlier in the thread all thru-hole, he's doesn't do digital or code if he was going to do digital or code he'd have to bring a third party in to do that, I remember that A-157 sequencer he released he announced it about 3 NAMMs ago but it took this long to release cause he was depending on somebody else writing code, company's like Mutable instruments their modules are little computers with Arm microprocessor all surface mount components, Doepfer modules are never going to be small and feature packed like some of the competition however I suppose that reflects in the price.
Old 13th January 2017
  #449
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Just googled the rear view of a Doepfer A-143-4 Quad, wow there's been some thru-hole work put into that big battle ship.
Might treat myself to one sometime.

Also looked at the A-157, it looks like he's used at least 3 resistor arrays to buy himself some room on the board,
The only build I've ever used resistor arrays was the 4ms SCM and that board was all about cramming onto a small area.
Old 13th January 2017
  #450
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
This is an option that's on my radar as well as they look much cheaper than ES units. Those old 24 I/O's run cheap now and can be stacked. Three of those, and I could have 24 channels of I/O for my whole system, plus 24 CV outs, 24 gate outs, and 48 inputs just for the modular. My only concern there is that while my experience with MOTU is very limited, that experience includes buying an interface that had just been discontinued and finding no driver support. I don't even see a Legacy/Discontinued section on their website so if the interface I buy has no drivers included, then what? And what about if I buy one that's still being made and then switch computers?

Man, it's sh*t like this that made me give up on DAW's in the first place. I'm already having second thoughts about this whole plan.
MOTU stuff is great, it just works rock solid all the time, they are like the Land Rovers of interfaces. I've had 2 of their interfaces over the years, I had the old firewire one a ways back and now the 8Pre which has ADAT ins and outs, just remember if you are going to chain them via ADAT to set which is master clock.
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