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Help me to build the perfect mobile recording solution for me
Old 20th March 2012
  #1
Gear Addict
Help me to build the perfect mobile recording solution for me

Hi all

After a horrible Bigband Recording Session on location (technical reasons, the music was good) I see that it is time to change some things

First my Situation:
I have all kinds of location recordings to do, from small jazz (16 - 24 tracks, sometimes even less) until big Filmmusic Orchestral Recordings (up to 48 Tracks).
I have a mobile ProTools HD Rig (relative old, G5). As Soundquality is one of the most important things to me I have 16 Channals of EMM AD Converters, and old Tube Preamps as well as GML Preamps. There is a ULN 8 as front end too, all connected to 2 Digital 192 Interfaces. When I need 32 Channals I can borrow either a second ULN8 easely or use just whatever is abailable. While that is not a bad system (although outdated because of ProTools 7.4 is about the newest version the old G5 can run) it is stable and good, as we can also use it for complex filmmusic recordings. On the other hand the system is large, and it takes a lot of time to get it transported, and 3 people to install everythins (with Mucos etc...). It is ok for really big gigs but for a lot of "normal" classical Recordings it is just too gib and heavy (and finally too expensive for the clients): I need something lighter and it should be easy to use.

On the other Hand for small Projects we just use a Apple Powerbook 17" with a ULN8 et voila. gives us 16 Channels (if we bring an additional 8 Channal AD/Pre Combination with us). Now for the Bigband Recording this Weekend it was for the Musicuniversity here and they did not have a lot of money. So I sad to myself, let's do that with several ULN8. Because the University was just about to buy one for them self and I could borrow one more Metric Halo 2882 for the not so important Channels. I was told by the Seller of MH that the Recorder that comes with the Software was simple and easy to use but totally stable and that this recorder was already used for larger filmmusic sessions. I wanted to set up a test at my studio first, but as a matter of fact the Second Interface arrived much too late so that finally we only could try and setup everything one day before the concert at location. After trying for more than 12 hours we went to take the ProTools System as it showed to be impossible to record in a professional way with more than one ULN'8. The Problem was, that we thought that the mixer that the system was giving us acted like a mixer (just as ProToosl or even Logic or whatever Software). But every interface acted as one recorder. Impossible to rout all tracks to the same mixbus. And the recorded tracks can not be played through the same tracks. You need to make 32 return tracks, or open an other mix with the tape inputs instead of the analog inputs. Finally this will not be the system for me. It's really ok for a small setup and the sound is fine, but for a Setup were you might need to quickly make a monitor bus for a musician or other things: Impossible. Also if I wanted to use that system, I needed to make the firewire connection as long as 50 meters. That can be done with a cat5 adapter, but it is expensive (400$) and not so sure imo, just not rock solid.

So what I'm looking for:
A System for location recording that sound's great, is scalable and if possible can use several of the gear I already have.

Here the Keypoints:
-one Box with 2 or 3 HE with about 24 Micpres and AD Converters (could be more or less HE's, but I don't want to bring 4 Units for AD and Digital Inputs and then another 8 or more different Pre's etc.
-those Signals should go to be recorded withouth the need of a analog Multicore. i.e. Madi or Ravenna (or whatever, I might not be aweare of everything)
-Record to a system without the need to use Apples soundmanager (so no agregating etc. ).

Recording could be either to ProTools 7.4 (using i.e a Madi to ProTools Converter as the SSL (the Avid Madi converter would not work with this old ProTools). Or it could also be a different recording System. Because I realize that on the PC world there would be Sequoia and Pyramix. Both with a good reputation, and both to be interfaced to madi much more easy. I saw several engineers working with a PC Labtop and streaming 48 Channels Madi to a MCPCI Card in their Labtop! Intriguing!!! Not sure if such a system would be enough powerful though for Filmmusic. So maybe a Desktop PC in a Rack. But for Filmmusic ProTools would be more than best, as most composer have ProTools Sessions and it is just wonderful when you can just record in to those sessions directly.

The Following Boxes are interessting to me:

-the new Horus (Merging): if it sounds good it will be more than interessting. I could either connect one or two of my EMM AD's with my own Pres for important projects. Or use my ULN 8 as front end. The Fact that it has Madi out and ravenna is great.
-DAD: 4 of their 8 Channel Interface with Pres and AD will give me what I am looking for, toghether with their ProTools Madi Interface. How does it sound? I don't know DAD Products.
-Direct Out 32 Channel AD to Madi Converter. I would need external Pres, but why not?
-Get only an AES to Madi converter. Then bay more ULN 8's. The Good Thing: I like the sound! The Bad thing: How to make the Gains and Setting of the ULN 8 out from the control room? It need firewire. I don't want to have a 100 meter madi cable and then, only to control the pre's from the ULN I must make a firewire to ethernet connection (that would coast alone 400 $) and have two lines just for that...

What I don't want:
StageTec: I absolutly does not like how it sounds.
Studer D21m: Too heavy to cary.
Build a Bus. (I don't want to sit in a truck. I want to install my rig in a room next to the concert)

Other critical thinking: If I have a box as horus to madi, then I record in a different room, how will I hear back? It seems I need an other box (rme or direct out) that can extract some signals out of the madi stream... complicated, complicated. I wonder why nobody sofar came out with a liverecording System for mobile gigs, that just can do everything.

So if anyone has built a system togehter that is great, or anyone has some ideas I would be thankful. Also if I have forgotten or overloocked something let me know.

Regards and sorry that this post has been getting a little longer that I have planed it;-)
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 21st March 2012
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Six RME Micstasys, split up into two groups (so you can use just 24 channels or go for more). Audio and control travels over MADI. Completely remote controllable via software or MIDI hardware. Can output to a backup recorder easily. A current Macbook Pro with the RME MADI expresscard and BoomRecorder for recording. Monitoring is a little tougher, maybe get the RME MadiBridge to split and output to either a digital mixer with MADI input or another laptop running whatever DAW you like.

Sorry to sound like an RME advertisement here. Their stuff has always been rock solid for me. What it lacks in ultra high end sound quality has always been made up by the feature set. I just bought 3 Micstasys myself and employ them in a fairly similar system, just 24 channels.
Old 21st March 2012
  #3
Gear Addict
 

New MacBook Pro (15") w/ Thunderbolt Magma chasis for your HD system, Avid Madi interface, and an Omni?
Old 21st March 2012
  #4
The Micstacy is incredible! I have one and am looking to buy a couple more this year. As far as remote recording goes these things are insane. The auto gain setup makes **** too easy. Love love love.
Old 21st March 2012
  #5
Gear Addict
Thanks for your replies so far.

@Bixby & BigWheels
RME, ups. I have to say I am more than critical against their products that work with analog audio. While I think their Madirouters etc. are fine, I don't think their converters are on the level I will need and I dislike their Pre's. Now I don't know the Micstacy and have heard that the Pre's should be better than the one that are in their other units. But mostly the converters are not, and if a company does not make good pre's and AD's in most of their interfaces (octa, Fireface, ADI) I have my doubt that I will fall in love with the Micstacy (Let me add that all those mentioned units are fine compared to the Price they are asking for). Also with several units of the Micstacy every unit add's some samples of additional latency. I don't have a good feeling about that system. Even if the Pre's were ok, the AD's would not fit my needs. And a lot of Boxes would be needed, while I prefer one box with 2 HE and 24 Channels (Horus / Stagetec). I would accept several Boxes (DAD?), but than I must have a better system than with a singular box, ant that for sure would not be the case with the RME Micstacy's imo.

@ SamKapala
I did not know that there are Magma Chassis to be connected to thunderbolt already, thanks for that info. Would this work with my old HD Cards (PCI-X)? But even if yes, I once had such a system (2 MixPlus Cards in a Magma, connected to a G4 Powerbook). It was not usable because the Fan in the Magma was too loud. But maybe that is not anymore the case. For sure the Avid Omni and Avid Madi Interface can not be connected to that old ProTools anymore. And to bay a New Mac and a New proTools HD native (next to the one that I already have in my main room) I don't really see realistic. I will have to update my main PT to PTX soon (and that will be expensive. If my old ProTools will not fit for mobile Gigs, then I rather buy a PC based System as Pyramix or Sequoia for Mobile Gigs I guess, as those can interface better with Madi-System's.

Thanks
Daniel
Old 21st March 2012
  #6
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JonesH's Avatar
Merging Horus...
Old 21st March 2012
  #7
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesH View Post
Merging Horus...
have you heard it already? I will try to test this unit soon. Before it is just a very exiting box, but we (atleast I ) can not say anything about it because, in cotrary of the StageTec or Vista IO Boxes that I have heard I really need to work with the horus. Le me see when I can test that system, as I am not far from merging I hope it will be possible.

Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 21st March 2012
  #8
Gear Addict
But even with a Horus still it is unclear to me how to solve the problem of the monitoring. As Horus has many possibilities to connect into the Listenback room (Madi or Ravenna) I think there should be another solution as to bay Madi to AES boxes (from RME or DI) in order to become out an 8 Channel's for the monitoring. I could make it easy and just use Genelecs with a Ravenna Input. But I want to be free to chose whatever Monitors I want. Will do some further recherching.
D.
Old 21st March 2012
  #9
Gear Addict
There was just announced a new RME PCI Madi Card:

HDSPe MADI FX

Many Input Channels (192, more than I ever need), but it has AES outs and a easy analog out on the Card too for monitoring! Not so bad.
D.
Old 21st March 2012
  #10
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AlexK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bixby View Post
Sorry to sound like an RME advertisement here. Their stuff has always been rock solid for me. What it lacks in ultra high end sound quality has always been made up by the feature set. I just bought 3 Micstasys myself and employ them in a fairly similar system, just 24 channels.
+1 to that - although avoid the Octamic, I've heard of reliability issues. Otherwise, I'm a big RME advocate too...
Old 21st March 2012
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Hi Daniel,
I have the Metric halo interface, and after verification, you should be able to monitor all of your boxes through one master out. You will not be able to do that with firewire only. You will need to use AES cables and route all of the mains of the other units from AES out to AES in of your master ULN-8. It may be a little confusing at first to set-up, but once you set it up, you're done. Don't give up quite yet on the ULN-8 units, even more so if you like the sound. Hope that helps.
Jude


Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
have you heard it already? I will try to test this unit soon. Before it is just a very exiting box, but we (atleast I ) can not say anything about it because, in cotrary of the StageTec or Vista IO Boxes that I have heard I really need to work with the horus. Le me see when I can test that system, as I am not far from merging I hope it will be possible.
Hope that helps.

Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 21st March 2012
  #12
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshen View Post
Hi Daniel,
I have the Metric halo interface, and after verification, you should be able to monitor all of your boxes through one master out. You will not be able to do that with firewire only. You will need to use AES cables and route all of the mains of the other units from AES out to AES in of your master ULN-8. It may be a little confusing at first to set-up, but once you set it up, you're done. Don't give up quite yet on the ULN-8 units, even more so if you like the sound. Hope that helps.
Jude
Hi Jude

Thanks for your input. But if I would go with say 3 ULN8's I would need the AES Inputs as well for recording (to connect the Emm AD Converter). If it was only the mix bus, ok, but what if the conductor needs quickly a roughmix (different than what I have on the faders? And what if the Musicians also need mixes? To do all that via the connections of AES will give me only as much as 8 Channels pro ULN 8 as I would need in minimum 8 Channels of AES for Bussing. That just makes no sense. I keep the ULN8 as a easy Jazzrecording System till 16 Channels. For the big system I don't think I can do with several ULN8's. Also how to make the distance between Recording Room and Control Room? I would either have to make a firewire to ethernet conversion (up to 60 meters, but I don't trust that boxes and from Metric Halo that is not officially supportet) or I could leave everything including the computer in the recording room and only make a CAT5 Extension for the Display und the USB Keyboard. Then a Stereo Line for Playback and a Talkback line. Why not. But the Computer had to be in a ISO Rack then. Last but not least for most of the more professional jobs I could never do that with the Basic Metric Halo Recorder. And I do not want to agregate it to ProTools....

So I guess that really the larger system can not be done with Metric Halo. But the ULN 8 can serve me well as an 8 Channel front End to my new system! If it will be the Horus, then I can buy 8 Channels less on the Horus and plut the ULN 8 into the AES in in the Horus. The last Question then would be how to program the ULN, as it need's firewire. Does the ULN has a Midi Input or any other Input to prgram it's settings via a cable that can be 100 m?

Regards
Daniel
Old 21st March 2012
  #13
For me, no computers for live recording.

No digital stuff, except for the recorder, the reliability is better. So are the sonics, no ProTools or any DAW stuff = trouble in paradise.

I use my mic preamps, an Alesis HD24XR and a small Soundcraft Delta 16x4x2 console that will monitor 24 channels, no latency. If needed (and paid for) I can jack in any converter made. Therefore the recorder is as good as the converters used and will never be out of date.

At that point it's the front end and mics selected that make more differences.
The entire rig easily fits on the rear seat of my Jeep Wrangler and I can use 2 bar stools and I'm good to go. Add a pair of headphones, cables and mic stands, done. That entire rig cost less than some of your software. The recorder about $1200, the console $550 which I can also use as a front end.

You only get one chance to make a great live recording. Computer solutions are too risky. One blown gig and your rep is trashed.
Old 21st March 2012
  #14
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
For me, no computers for live recording.

No digital stuff, except for the recorder, the reliability is better. So are the sonics, no ProTools or any DAW stuff = trouble in paradise.

I use my mic preamps, an Alesis HD24XR and a small Soundcraft Delta 16x4x2 console that will monitor 24 channels, no latency. If needed (and paid for) I can jack in any converter made. Therefore the recorder is as good as the converters used and will never be out of date.

At that point it's the front end and mics selected that make more differences.
The entire rig easily fits on the rear seat of my Jeep Wrangler and I can use 2 bar stools and I'm good to go. Add a pair of headphones, cables and mic stands, done. That entire rig cost less than some of your software. The recorder about $1200, the console $550 which I can also use as a front end.

You only get one chance to make a great live recording. Computer solutions are too risky. One blown gig and your rep is trashed.
You are right, except that a Harddisk recorder can also get broken (although this might not happen so often). But in my situation, at least for the filmmusic, I need a ProTools I guess. If you record live concerts or stuff were no edit is required and no film etc also perfectly fine with a recorder.
D.
Old 22nd March 2012
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Seems like you need remote pres and a madi run to the control room.

It's really the only was to do what you want to do reliably, keeping your hd cards and interfaces.

Ideally add a new mbp or mac pro when released, a bunch of remote pres aka micstasy etc, aes/madi converters and a thunderbolt chassis for the hd cards. Add two madi runs on reels and you have a nice location recording system.
Old 22nd March 2012
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
You are right, except that a Harddisk recorder can also get broken (although this might not happen so often). But in my situation, at least for the filmmusic, I need a ProTools I guess. If you record live concerts or stuff were no edit is required and no film etc also perfectly fine with a recorder.
D.
Your previous experience should tell you why your solution is not reliable. I suspect you won't get called back to record that big band again?

You don't need computers and editing for recording/capture. That's for post work. The Alesis machines are very reliable, but anyone should carry spares too. You can transfer the wave files into ProTools and edit away. You can also lock them to time based video or even midi. That is not a problem.

What happened at your last gig was a problem.
Old 22nd March 2012
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
But even with a Horus still it is unclear to me how to solve the problem of the monitoring. As Horus has many possibilities to connect into the Listenback room (Madi or Ravenna) I think there should be another solution as to bay Madi to AES boxes (from RME or DI) in order to become out an 8 Channel's for the monitoring. I could make it easy and just use Genelecs with a Ravenna Input. But I want to be free to chose whatever Monitors I want. Will do some further recherching.
D.
I've got a RME ADI 8 QSM in my MADI chain for monitoring (also in surround), and there I also feed in the talkback signal. I really fail to see any problem with this converter, it's excellent, don't compare it with the simpler boxes by RME.

BTW: Are you sure you tested the latest revision of the stagetec box? They changed a lot regarding THD, maybe just try once more... The stagetec is incredible lightweight, in this respect it matches your demands very well...
Old 22nd March 2012
  #18
LX3
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LX3's Avatar
 

I find that there is no one rig that covers all bases.

e.g.

* We want to record 48 tracks, or 64 tracks, or 96 tracks, but also want it to break down small enough to transport easily for smaller events
* We want simplicity, foolproof operation, and speed of setup, but we also want long cable runs (e.g. MADI), remote preamps, mixing, foldback, etc...
* We want high quality preamps and conversion, but want it to be affordable and lightweight

And so on.

There are a bunch of conflicting requirements like this. I encounter this on every job. Whatever rig you build, it's never quite the right rig for the next job you do.

You can make it fairly modular (e.g. preamp rack, conversion rack, clocking, etc) as long as you realise that the more pieces it breaks down into, the longer it takes to rig.

Or you could get an integrated preamp/snake/mixing/record system like Digico or Studer or the new Yamaha... but then it's all or nothing, you can't mix and match components.

I ended up putting together separate rigs for different applications. There's a lot of crossover, so I use this rack of preamps with that record system, and then next week I use that rack, plus another rack of preamps, with a different record system. One of a couple of different mixing desks might get used, depending on how many channels I need, what the budget is, whether we're going to have to carry it up any stairs, etc. Or there might be no desk if we're just tracking. Sometimes we have preamps on stage and 150m of fibreoptic MADI, other times it's 20ft of analog multicore direct to the recording location.

I think when you're starting from zero, there comes a point where you have to dive in and get building, and accept that you'll be changing things down the line. I definitely didn't get it right the first time, and ten years later my rigs are still constantly evolving. You just have to go for it, see how it works, and take it from there.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with recording to computers. Yes it can be fiddly... But doing high track counts with HD24s isn't much fun either.
Old 23rd March 2012
  #19
Gear Addict
Quote:
Your previous experience should tell you why your solution is not reliable. I suspect you won't get called back to record that big band again?

You don't need computers and editing for recording/capture. That's for post work. The Alesis machines are very reliable, but anyone should carry spares too. You can transfer the wave files into ProTools and edit away. You can also lock them to time based video or even midi. That is not a problem.

What happened at your last gig was a problem.
Absolutly not, it took us till 4 o'clock in the morning the day before the recording, but at the day of the recording, we were ready, everything line-checked and the conductor was more than pleased that we managed it. Not the system was the problem, but the fact that the second ULN8 has not arrived. Btw. it has not arrived until now and most probably UPS has lost it - sh...t happens. Computer's are more than sure for me and as most gigs are filmmusic location recordings I anyway have to work on Computers, so harddrive recorders are out of question anyway. Never ever that I could not record a gig because of computer problems.
-----------------

Quote:
BTW: Are you sure you tested the latest revision of the stagetec box? They changed a lot regarding THD, maybe just try once more... The stagetec is incredible lightweight, in this respect it matches your demands very well...
No, most likly if you say that they changed a lot, then not, as it was 10 years ago. I thought it was still the same box. I will check that. Yes, the System it self is very cool and light, easy to transport und does not have a fan if I remember correctly. Recording Filmmusic that is important as often you have violins playing pppp and the fan of the studer vista or EMM Converters are a big big problem.
---------------
Quote:
I find that there is no one rig that covers all bases.
Well for me yes and no. It depends what one is doing mostly. Clearly for one guy in germany his PC Powerbook, Magma, Pyramix, Statetec is a perfect solution. He records everything with that system and has a lot of gigs. For him he wanted to be able to carry everything in a combi (no bus). Another Studio in Switzerland has to record a lot of openairs and classical concerts. For them it was perfect to build a little track with a Vista console, so they can also make great roughmixes that the TV or radio can send live.
My main spot is recording filmmusic and other things, but the system must work for filmmusic. So it is clear that many things won't work and some will. That the system might not be perfect for every possible situation is clear.

So here is my plan for now:

Stage:
Horus with 24 Pres AND 24 AES inputs, all out to madi.
The ULN 8 is used when 32 channels are needed. The two EMM AD with my GML Pres are used when 48 channels are needed (and payed).
all out to madi.
Control Room:
SSL Madi to ProTools (delta link)
Monitoring either RME or Direct out Madi-break boxes, or a old Digi interface (as Avid Interfaces would not work). Producer.com from I.o. looks very nice.

Does not sound so bad, does it? Of course a test with the Horus first has to come.

Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 23rd March 2012
  #20
Here is an overview of the Horus AD and DA cards.

Merging Technologies
Old 23rd March 2012
  #21
And here the Horus brochure with all the specifications and features:

http://www.merging.com/uploads/asset...20-%202012.pdf
Old 24th March 2012
  #22
LX3
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LX3's Avatar
 

Hey Daniel, yes, that sounds like a nice system. I probably should have read the thread a more closely, I didn't realise you had such a specific application in mind. Makes it a lot easier to build a system when the kind of job you're doing is generally in one particular ball-park.

If it were me, I'd prefer to have the same preamps throughout, just for the sake of simplicity. How much would two Horus'es (Hori?) be? One with 24 inputs, and the other with 16 perhaps. Maybe something for the future...

I would also say that if I was needing to check large numbers of channels, and do a mix for the producer to hear during the session, I'd much rather have a real desk. I find it a lot faster to get around than mouse and keyboard, and the buttons and moving faders tend to impress the client, who invariably wants to get hands on and solo things themselves. Plus you get talkback facilities built-in, etc.

But there's size and cost to consider. And you can always rent a desk.
Old 3rd April 2012
  #23
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 View Post
Hey Daniel, yes, that sounds like a nice system. I probably should have read the thread a more closely, I didn't realise you had such a specific application in mind. Makes it a lot easier to build a system when the kind of job you're doing is generally in one particular ball-park.

If it were me, I'd prefer to have the same preamps throughout, just for the sake of simplicity. How much would two Horus'es (Hori?) be? One with 24 inputs, and the other with 16 perhaps. Maybe something for the future...

I would also say that if I was needing to check large numbers of channels, and do a mix for the producer to hear during the session, I'd much rather have a real desk. I find it a lot faster to get around than mouse and keyboard, and the buttons and moving faders tend to impress the client, who invariably wants to get hands on and solo things themselves. Plus you get talkback facilities built-in, etc.

But there's size and cost to consider. And you can always rent a desk.
A real desk would be something nice, moreover for the filmmusic projects. I will be able to test the Horus, Merging will give me a testsystem.

Another thought for the mobile System without the Horus:

Stage:
3 ULN 8 (24 Channels of fine pre and AD) to AES (already have one ULN8)
16 Channals of Pres and EMM AD converters to AES (already have this)
AES to Madi Converter (either from RME or Direct out, they should have one soon)
Control Room:
SSL Madi to ProTools (delta link)
Monitoring either RME or Direct out Madi-break boxes, or a old Digi interface (as Avid Interfaces would not work). Producer.com from I.o. looks very nice.
If a Mixer is there, Direct out 32 Channal Madi to Analog Converter.

With this system the Horus would not be needed. I see it that way: If the test with the horus showes me, that the Pres and AD section are really great (equal or better than the ULN8) then very good, but if not, then the ULN8 Solution (I would have to buy two more ULN8, I know...) could be great as well. Only drawback: I had to control the Gains of the ULN's with Midi over Ethernet. But that would be possible according to MH Germany.

So next Action is the Horus test, I am really curious how it sounds..

Greetings
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 7th April 2012
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
A real desk would be something nice, moreover for the filmmusic projects. I will be able to test the Horus, Merging will give me a testsystem.

Another thought for the mobile System without the Horus:

Stage:
3 ULN 8 (24 Channels of fine pre and AD) to AES (already have one ULN8)
16 Channals of Pres and EMM AD converters to AES (already have this)
AES to Madi Converter (either from RME or Direct out, they should have one soon)
Control Room:
SSL Madi to ProTools (delta link)
Monitoring either RME or Direct out Madi-break boxes, or a old Digi interface (as Avid Interfaces would not work). Producer.com from I.o. looks very nice.
If a Mixer is there, Direct out 32 Channal Madi to Analog Converter.

With this system the Horus would not be needed. I see it that way: If the test with the horus showes me, that the Pres and AD section are really great (equal or better than the ULN8) then very good, but if not, then the ULN8 Solution (I would have to buy two more ULN8, I know...) could be great as well. Only drawback: I had to control the Gains of the ULN's with Midi over Ethernet. But that would be possible according to MH Germany.

So next Action is the Horus test, I am really curious how it sounds..

Greetings
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Hi Daniel, when do you receive the Horus test unit? I am really curious how it sounds next to an ULN8.
Old 7th April 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 

well aren´t we all waiting for avid´s implementation of
thunderbolt into their converters as well a apple´s take on
mac pro future ?

I seriously won´t burn money into any other solution with usb/firewire
or other dated protocols.
The new hd i/o is so good I even sold my prism ada-8 xr for it -
(which btw I liked even better than the emm labs but that´s just me).

So just a little more patience - as long as you don´t need the rig now.
Old 13th April 2012
  #26
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriabin View Post
Hi Daniel, when do you receive the Horus test unit? I am really curious how it sounds next to an ULN8.
Hi there, either soon or the least they would lend it to me for that very production in June, which for me is also a possibility. I am curious too:-)

Quote:
well aren´t we all waiting for avid´s implementation of
thunderbolt into their converters as well a apple´s take on
mac pro future ?

I seriously won´t burn money into any other solution with usb/firewire
or other dated protocols.
The new hd i/o is so good I even sold my prism ada-8 xr for it -
(which btw I liked even better than the emm labs but that´s just me).

So just a little more patience - as long as you don´t need the rig now.
I am not going to wait. I doupt that Avid will release a system that will fit my needs. Thunderbolt? How to make that 100 meters long? Also will they ever create a box with max 3 HE with 24 analog and 24 Digital inputs? I doupt. Last but not least I don't think they ever will make good micpres. The sound of the Avid's AD however would fit my needs for the basic 24 channals.

Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 25th April 2012
  #27
Gear Addict
So while soon I will be able to make my tests with horus I found something interessting, the Ipre from Crookwood.

iPre Multichannel Modular Preamp

I wonder why nobody has mentioned their system? From the Specs it looks great. And it has no fan. The Drawback could be that their AD always sample with 200 kHz and then they make a SR to whatever samplingrate you want to record. That way they say they are completely immune to jitter and it does not matter what quality of clock comes in to their system. On the other hand I would say, that I am not sure whether this advantage is bigger than the disadvantage of having a SRC on all Channals.

Second Problem could be that I don't see an easy solution to bring AES Channals (coming from my GML-EMM-AD Combination into the Croockwood System so that it can travels in the Madistream. Maybe I missed something here.

Anybody has some info about the croockwood system, i.e. as how it compars to other systems or preamp-AD combinations?

Regards
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com
Old 28th April 2012
  #28
Hallo Daniel,

The ipre has been mentioned on this board, and there are a few users here. I have purchased an 8-channel unit 2 years ago and must say that it is one of the best pieces of gear that I have ever come across. I can not recommend it more. Very high time resolution that I have not heard in any other commercially available preamp, which really made the difference for me. I simply forget about it and move my microphones.

It is a bit of a hassle to put together, but if connected and in a flightcase this will not be an issue (I travel a lot by airplane and have to set it up after arrival). The user interface is not fantastic but it simply works.

Contact Crispin directly, he is extremely helpful and will answer all your questions.

Best,
Dirk
Old 5th May 2012
  #29
Gear Addict
Hi Dirk

Thanks for your answear, seems that I really have to hear and test that system too...

Regards
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtf View Post
Hallo Daniel,

The ipre has been mentioned on this board, and there are a few users here. I have purchased an 8-channel unit 2 years ago and must say that it is one of the best pieces of gear that I have ever come across. I can not recommend it more. Very high time resolution that I have not heard in any other commercially available preamp, which really made the difference for me. I simply forget about it and move my microphones.

It is a bit of a hassle to put together, but if connected and in a flightcase this will not be an issue (I travel a lot by airplane and have to set it up after arrival). The user interface is not fantastic but it simply works.

Contact Crispin directly, he is extremely helpful and will answer all your questions.

Best,
Dirk
Old 2nd July 2012
  #30
Gear Addict
And here we go finally. Sorry for the long wait on this.
I finally have spent some time with the horus. I recorded a Coir with 70 singers and 8 musicians and lately in Köln (Germany) the big soundtrack for the new Huckleberry Finn Cinema Movie. In both projects the Horus was the Central Unit on the Stage.

As some Cards from the Horus were delivered to Merging with a little delay I did not get the unit as early as planed. As a result I could not make sound-quality tests in advance. I wanted to compare it to a Studer Vista madistagebox (D21m), to the UNL8 and to my combinations of highend pres (i.e. 5 old Lorenz Vintage GermanTube Amplifieres) and EMM AD Converter.

However what I already can say is, that Horus seems to be a great product and, although they need and will change some things to operate it better, it worked like a charm. I liked the fact that I can integrate my equpiment (i.e. the old lorenz pres / EMM AD's) over AES easely. I am not sure if it will even be needed to bring the EMM's as I have the feeling that the horus AD, while sounding different, is very good aswell. I also like the fact that you can plug in a line or a mic input on the same input and swich it in software. I have to make comparisions about the pres, they seem to have a neutral, almost clinic sound. On a short comparision with Acoustic Guitar, Percussion and Vocals we compared the Horus Pre and AD to GML Pre and EMM AD. On the Acoustic Guitar the horus was really good and 2 out of 3 listeners liked the horus better. On Percussion both had their strenghs, while the Horus pointed out the impulses better and the GML/EMM sounded more organic. On voice the Horus was to clinic and did not work. But to be fair, in most situations in Studios for vocals a colored or otherwise deticated preamp is prefeared anyway, and with the horus it is easy to just use an other pre (while with a Studer Vista D21m that is fitted with Micpre Cards you can not plug a line signal, exept you have deticated line cards installed).

I went from the Horus over Madi to the control room. A Direct.out producer.com was set between the Horus and SSL ProTools to Madi converter for the communications. That is a great unit as well, I was able to have the Mainmix, alternative Headphone Mix, Talkback and Listenmic included and extreacted from the Madi Stream to where I needed it. Even a Quantec Yardstick could be implementet with the Producer.com, which would be impossible otherways (exept I would take a 192 digital with me)

So my setup most likly will be:
-Horus
-Producer.com for communications
-SsL Madi to ProTools
-Old G5 with ProToosl 7.4 (a very stable PT System for Recordings)
-Various Pres as needed
-EMM AD if needed (however I must see if needed anymore with the horus)

In some weeks the Ravenna Driver will be ready, and then I can even do Sessions over a CAT5 Cable. They will have a Driver even for Mac OS, so I can go straight to my ProTools on my labtop - sexy...

Thats for now, I'll post again when I made some comparisions.

PS: The Fan was not much a problem on those two sessions. To give you an Idea: My EMM AD must be placed minimum 5 meters away from the orchester under a table and then we have the Cover of a Grand Piano over the table and some gobos in front. Then the level of the fans of the EMM on the mics is acceptable. The Horus was placed directly behind the conductor and the Fan was not a big problem and when it turned it was still quiter than the EMM in the "iso-both". But most of the time it did not turn.



Regards
Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com

Last edited by idee und klang; 2nd July 2012 at 08:42 PM.. Reason: correction of spelling mistakes
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