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Old 16th December 2018
  #1561
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Aura-Sonic's Dual DA6400 Rack of Love with Midas DL351 Remote controllable Pres have been getting a lot of action this (2018) year.
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Old 16th December 2018
  #1562
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Old 16th December 2018
  #1563
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Remoteness's Avatar
Aura-Sonic's MADI Record Rack is a triple 64 track recording rig with all sorts of extras within a 20U space rack. It's typically setup in our Tiny Big Mobile, yet it has been out on various portable dates this (2018) year.
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Old 16th December 2018
  #1564
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JCBigler's Avatar
You still using the Tascam X48 recorders? I have two in the truck I just bought. They power on, but won't boot up, I think it's dead hard drives.
Old 16th December 2018
  #1565
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Remoteness's Avatar
Some analog gear for the conveyance of Elroy!
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Old 16th December 2018
  #1566
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
You still using the Tascam X48 recorders? I have two in the truck I just bought. They power on, but won't boot up, I think it's dead hard drives.
We still use our eight X48s from time to time. With the right amount of care and understanding they can be serious workhorses. That being said, our Sound (Video) Devices PIX270i and 970 recorders and Tascam DA6400 hard disk recorders are getting most of the projects just because of the track count we need.

In the same space two X48s (that yielding 96 tracks) I can have 512 tracks of PIX270i (970) or DA6400.

It's first try testing the internal battery and then reboot and restore the firmware. I doubt it's the hard drives.

Which truck did you purchase?
Old 16th December 2018
  #1567
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JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
We still use our eight X48s from time to time. With the right amount of care and understanding they can be serious workhorses. That being said, our Sound (Video) Devices PIX270i and 970 recorders and Tascam DA6400 hard disk recorders are getting most of the projects just because of the track count we need.

In the same space two X48s (that yielding 96 tracks) I can have 512 tracks of PIX270i (970) or DA6400.

It's first try testing the internal battery and then reboot and restore the firmware. I doubt it's the hard drives.

Which truck did you purchase?
See this thread: So I'm going to buy a remote truck...

I'll try replacing the batteries. But they both power up and say they can't find the IDE hard drive. They find the CD drive, but no hard drive listed. I have to finish a symphony recording this weekend, but next week I'm planning to start removing the gear so I can start selling stuff off.

I doubt I will keep the X48s, as I plan to move to Protools and JoeCo dante as a back up solution.
Old 16th December 2018
  #1568
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Well, that's a different story. I would check the ribbons and such connections. See where you're at with that.

IMHO, JoeCo is a cool box, and have some awesome features, but I believe the DA6400 blows it away. The DA6400 has two card slots and you can change them out as needed instead of having to buy that particular recorder. With JoeCo, if you need DANTE you have to buy the DANTE JoeCo. If you want MADI then the JoeCo with MADI is needed. The Tascams have options. We have DANTE and MADI cards and use them both within the same system. It's a great way to handle it. The Sound (Video) Devices recorders are the "Swiss Army Knife" of the hard disk recorders. They are quite solid and super reliable decks. YMMV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
See this thread: So I'm going to buy a remote truck...

I'll try replacing the batteries. But they both power up and say they can't find the IDE hard drive. They find the CD drive, but no hard drive listed. I have to finish a symphony recording this weekend, but next week I'm planning to start removing the gear so I can start selling stuff off.

I doubt I will keep the X48s, as I plan to move to Protools and JoeCo dante as a back up solution.
Old 17th December 2018
  #1569
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Midas DL351 Remote controllable Pres
Hi, how can you set the DL351 preamp's gains without the desk?
I see a DN9650 but I can't see any Pro Serie or M-Serie in the picture...

devis
Old 20th December 2018
  #1570
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Good question, Devis.

This particular Midas DL351 remote controllable microphone preamp is controlled by their (legacy) Digital Snake Controller software.

That being said, the Digital Snake Controller software hasn't been updated in many years. The software isn't available online so, we had to reach out to the folks at Midas and figured out a workaround. Since software development hasn't been continued, we had to downgrade the DL351 software to be able to use the DL351 in this fashion. We have a mini Acer laptop controlling the DL351. It has been working well for us. This rack of preamps is dedicated to this system. We would have to upgrade the software to the latest version if we want to use the DL351 with our Midas Pro series desk. A second DL351 can be used with our Pro Series desk.

Furthermore, the Klark Teknik DN9650 is there to convert the (AES50) SuperMAC/HyperMAC stream into either (AES10) MADI and/or DANTE streams.



Quote:
Originally Posted by devis.pv View Post
Hi, how can you set the DL351 preamp's gains without the desk?
I see a DN9650 but I can't see any Pro Serie or M-Serie in the picture...

devis
Old 21st December 2018
  #1571
Here for the gear
 

thank you for the reply!
I didn't know it was possible... not a smooth way to do it but good to know!
thanks
Old 22nd December 2018
  #1572
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Remoteness's Avatar
I don't know, it works well for my workflow when we are in tight quarters and a console or mixer is not possible. We find it quite smooth, especially since all we need to do is adjust pre amp gains and engage phantom power.



Quote:
Originally Posted by devis.pv View Post
thank you for the reply!
I didn't know it was possible... not a smooth way to do it but good to know!
thanks
Old 1st January 2019
  #1573
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
The Sound (Video) Devices recorders are the "Swiss Army Knife" of the hard disk recorders. They are quite solid and super reliable decks. YMMV.
What is the advantage of using this box over a well appointed ProTools system for you?
Old 2nd January 2019
  #1574
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
What is the advantage of using this box over a well appointed ProTools system for you?
I'm sure Steve will give you his reasons, but as an early-adopter of SD 970s and someone who does rather similar sorts of work to Steve, here's my take on your question. There are several advantages that a 970 / 270i has over a similarly-spec'd Pro Tools rig specifically for Location capture of live events. By the way, a Video Devices 270i is a Sound Devices 970 with the additional ability to record a single SDI/HDMI video feed (but when doing so, Audio capture is embedded with the video as a Poly BWAV only). I suspect in most cases Steve / Aurasonic use these as a Backup recorder along side a 'well appointed ProTools system', as do I depending on the job.

Firstly is size. I sometimes get hired to add large track-count capture capability to existing TV OB trucks where space is at an absolute premium. I can bring in one 3u plastic rack sleeve with two 970s (2U) and a 12v battery backup system, with an iPad sitting on top to run Pixnet (the remote control GUI for these recorders) and fit it under the console in the sound booth, or in a one-person workspace normally occupied by a Sports Graphics operator. Same for going into a Theatre or tight concert venue. This gives me a dual redundant 64-channel record, or a single 128 channel record. A similar 128 channel Pro Tools system with backup power would be 7 rack units (including a Mac Mini and HDX cards in a Magma TB/PCIe Chassis) and WAY heavier, plus the screen, keyboard and mouse space - 10 rack units if I was wanting separate main and redundant 64-channel systems.

Second is dual-media record. The ability to hand off an SSD to the client a minute or two after pressing stop, while having another duplicate SSD to keep as a backup is a really big deal in Live Captures, especially in commercial venues that may require everyone out of the place very promptly after a record. Note I do not consider dual-media record to constitute a 'back-up' or redundant record. Also note these devices can write to four drives if recording Polyphonic BWAVs but only two drives if recording Mono BWAvs (one per track).

Third is their handling of Timecode and Broadcast Wave metadata is much better aligned to the current practices of the Film/TV industry and how current Cameras work in the Production phase than any DAW. They are timestamped-clip based devices rather than a timeline-based device, which can make life easier down the track for Post Production.

Fourth is their multi-input capability, in that little box you get to choose from 64 MADI, 64 Dante, 8 Analog Line Level, and 8 AES channels to feed your 64 record tracks, then freely choose which of those record tracks feed your 64 MADI, 8 Analog and 8 AES outputs (Dante outs are 1:1 but can of course be patched in the network). This is great when you are getting a MADI feed from a live sound stagerack, but want to add audience mics, for example. Sure you can configure a Pro Tools (or any DAW) with similar IO, but at a major cost.

Of course, there are plenty of downsides as well, you just need to balance them in your usage case. They are absolutely rubbish at doing Playbacks of anything other than short full takes. It's like trying to use the FF and REW buttons on a cassette deck to find the desired playback section! Completely useless for 'Virtual Soundcheck' type scenarios for live sound for the same reason. I would not recommend editing Metadata while recording if using Mono BWAV mode and a lot of tracks as it has to rewrite the headers of that many individual files while still recording them, which it can sometimes choke on if writing to two drives, leaving you with corrupted takes. And of course these totally can not do music-production style 'overdub' recording. It's not what they are for. Also, like anything to come out of Sound Devices lately, they are rather fussy about which brand / model / firmware version of Media they'll play nice with.

Hope that's of use!
Old 2nd January 2019
  #1575
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by njrsound View Post
Hope that's of use!
I was already privy to a lot of this info, but having it laid out like this certainly helped me see the big picture, thanks a lot.
Old 3rd January 2019
  #1576
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
What is the advantage of using this box over a well appointed ProTools system for you?
I would never use a computer for live recording.

I would always record on a dedicated recorder and only use a computer for editing anmd post-production.

I always remember the story that Joe Bull told me of a live recordin g with a SADiE system several years ago - everything set up and tested perfectly and they went off for a quick coffee and break before the performance; came back to find the computer had decided, while they were not there, to do a major update and it could not be stopped after it had started. Luckily for them it finished 20-seconds before the start of the performance. But I would never risk a live recording on a computer - just in case...
Old 3rd January 2019
  #1577
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I would never use a computer for live recording.

I would always record on a dedicated recorder and only use a computer for editing anmd post-production.

I always remember the story that Joe Bull told me of a live recordin g with a SADiE system several years ago - everything set up and tested perfectly and they went off for a quick coffee and break before the performance; came back to find the computer had decided, while they were not there, to do a major update and it could not be stopped after it had started. Luckily for them it finished 20-seconds before the start of the performance. But I would never risk a live recording on a computer - just in case...
The reason why, on paying gigs, I never leave the second (backup) computer at home. It's also why they are MacBook Pros ("auto update" switched off), and are NEVER connected to wifi onsite. If I was on dedicated recorders, I'd be in the same place... a primary and a backup... lack of backup is not acceptable in my world.

One old guy's opinion...

HB
Old 4th January 2019
  #1578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
But I would never risk a live recording on a computer - just in case...
One day I’ll tell you about the time an almost brand spanking new Studer 24-track machine decided to go on strike while we were recording live at a major festival....

Every modern digital console and recorder is a glorified computer, and we put them in the back of trucks and drive them around for hundreds of miles and then use them to perform mission critical tasks in front of thousands of people everyday.
Old 4th January 2019
  #1579
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
What is the advantage of using this box over a well appointed ProTools system for you?
I'm coming on this late and I'm sorry for that. Believe it or not, I was typing in my long arse response and my computer decided to crash. And, I wasn't able to get back to this discussion until now, way after your original post hit Gearslutz. Here's my take on it, and forgive me if I'm repeating what was already mentioned.

Well, first of all, the (Sound) Video Devices 970 & PIX270i recorders are bullet-proof and solid products. They have never failed us to date (despite their workflow quirks.) I cannot say that about Protools, and not just our rigs, on many rigs. The size of these recorders are perfect for tight quarters. You can have a dual 64-track or 128-track recording setup all in just a 2U rack space. This is a big plus for us. The fact that you can record to two SSD cards simultaneously as a dual record or have them contiguously be recording with a "plug and play" workflow is tremendous accomplishment for such a small package. Their Word Clock and Timecode is solid and has saved us in the past. Their input (along with their WC & TC) capabilities is why I call the 970/PIX270i recorders my "Swiss Army Knife" recorders. I mean, 64 channels of MADI, 64 channels of Dante, plus 8 channels of Analog line level, and 8 channels of AES that can be combined to fed 64 record tracks all in a size of one half 2U rack space. I could take 56 channels via MADI off the stage, have (Let us say) 4 channels (with FXs and/or MC mics) coming from FOH via DANTE and have 2 locals feeds via the analog inputs along with an AES feed from the TV Truck or other source. All sorts of possibilities are available via these compact device.

We usually run two or three recorders on our live performance captures. Two of our racks, 'MADI Record Rack' and 'Big Bertha' both have a pair of PIX270i decks and a dedicated Mac Mini running Protools. We use the Protools setup in these racks as our third recorder, for 'Virtual Sound-check' playback and possible on location editing and post-production. Our 'Dual DA6400 Rack' has a pair of Tascam DA6400 and a MAC Mini that can run Protools or Reaper. The other record racks in our inventory have two recorders, yet none of them have computers running Protools or any other DAW for that matter. We have individual Protools rigs, but they are usually used on "studio style" recording situations when there's no actual live performance in front of an audience or one-of-a-kind scenario being captured.

Depending on the job, environment and budget we bring our what is applicable to the project. That said, I would never recommend single Protools system for a (one time) live event that cannot be duplicated.
Old 5th January 2019
  #1580
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I am considerably "down market" from most pro live-music recordists here, but live with many of the same time and space constraints. Several years ago we left behind computer-based recording, even pretty bullet proof apps like Boom Recorder, in favor of dedicated recorders (JoeCo and SD mostly). Then we left behind consoles, and got our whole bread and butter rig down to a 5 RU, prewired to a multicore connector. This made us some friends among venue folks--ie fast in/up/rolling/wrap and out! It also, esp since we stopped recording to spinning drives, made us way more reliable. I've had to revert to some laptop recording lately (when the only way to get any audio was via Dante etc), but I don't like doing it, even to something as simple as Reaper. I hear of lots of gigs where the client requires the recorder to be PT, and figure it all gets done, but if I have a choice I'm using our dedicated recorders. That Tascam Steve R mentions is the ****, would go there if budget allowed!

Last edited by philper; 5th January 2019 at 05:57 AM..
Old 5th January 2019
  #1581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Depending on the job, environment and budget we bring our what is applicable to the project. That said, I would never recommend single Protools system for a (one time) live event that cannot be duplicated.
I agree, and wouldn’t recommend recording an important live event without a backup regardless of the recording gear being used.

Thanks for your response, I just wanted to know why this box was so attractive to a high-end, general recordist, you and nrjsound underlined and highlighted all the reasons I figured were at the top of the list. Not having overdub capability is a deal breaker for me because of the type of work I do, and I can’t for the life of me understand why a modern, digital, multitrack recorder would not have this feature...boggles my mind.

I do however find the other features and its compact size very appealing...
Old 5th January 2019
  #1582
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
And, in many cases triple redundancy is the way to go. And, the fact that our PIX270i recorders have dual-media caddies is an extra plus.

I hear you loud and clear about the need for overdub capabilities, and that's the main reason why we bring and use Protools when that workflow is in play. The (Sound) Video Devices 970/PIX270i and Tascam DA6400 are excellent capture recorders and they function extremely well in that category. Besides our Protools rigs, we have other dedicated hard disk recorders that do indeed have overdub capabilities available when needed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
I agree, and wouldn’t recommend recording an important live event without a backup regardless of the recording gear being used.

Thanks for your response, I just wanted to know why this box was so attractive to a high-end, general recordist, you and nrjsound underlined and highlighted all the reasons I figured were at the top of the list. Not having overdub capability is a deal breaker for me because of the type of work I do, and I can’t for the life of me understand why a modern, digital, multitrack recorder would not have this feature...boggles my mind.

I do however find the other features and its compact size very appealing...
Old 8th January 2019
  #1583
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JCBigler's Avatar
My current mobile rig

Upgraded my mobile rig:

Focusrite Red 8Pre, the True Systems Precision 8 from my truck, and a pair of Focusrite Clarett Octopres. Protools Ultimate/HD Native Thunderbolt, and a pair of Netgear GS108T managed switches. With my Lenovo P50 latop.

This will form the backbone of the system in my truck, along with the DM2000 and a new computer once I get the Soundtracs console out of it.

The Red 8Pre will send all of it's analog and digital i/o (32 channels) to the Dante network, as well as take in 32 channels for a total of 64 channels, so I can send the 8Pre's i/o to the network for a second workstation or back up recorder.

This rig will do 26 channels at 96k (including the S/PDIF), or 32 at 48k (owing to the lost of 8 channels for the Octopre's ADAT conneciton). Plus another 32 channels from Dante at either 48 or 96k, depending on what the Dante network is running at. Also nice is that I have 3 headphone outputs for the main mix right on the front of the rack set up as default, so I can monitor, plus an assistant and another hanger-on if there is one.

I only had 15 channels on this recording: 12 flown mics, with two wireless handhelds for curtain and conductor speech and a mix send for the birds sound effects for the Gandolfi.
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Old 8th January 2019
  #1584
Arias for counter-tenor and baroque orchestra in Belvedere, CA. Went for Gefells in the main array, Neumann TLM170s for the voice, and Schoeps for the ambience mics. Main array + voice fed the Grace m108, the rest fed the Millenia. 176kHz into Sequoia with a split feeding Metric Halo record-console.

I really love the Gefell microphones.
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Old 10th January 2019
  #1585
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Aura-Sonic's MADI Record Rack is a triple 64 track recording rig with all sorts of extras within a 20U space rack. It's typically setup in our Tiny Big Mobile, yet it has been out on various portable dates this (2018) year.
Steve, you are having your hands on such a huge quantity of different gear, that it seems to me like dating 30 girlfriends at the same time... Are you never confused by all their different buttons and menu structures?
Old 10th January 2019
  #1586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
Steve, you are having your hands on such a huge quantity of different gear, that it seems to me like dating 30 girlfriends at the same time... Are you never confused by all their different buttons and menu structures?
???
Old 10th January 2019
  #1587
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
Well, each system has its own own workflow that may need careful study, especially if the rig hasn't been used in a while.

We prep each and every system that goes out, so if there is a question or any confusion, it's addressed during the preparation and planning stages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
Steve, you are having your hands on such a huge quantity of different gear, that it seems to me like dating 30 girlfriends at the same time... Are you never confused by all their different buttons and menu structures?
Old 10th January 2019
  #1588
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness View Post
Well, each system has its own own workflow that may need careful study, especially if the rig hasn't been used in a while.

We prep each and every system that goes out, so if there is a question or any confusion, it's addressed during the preparation and planning stages.
Still impressive that you guys manage the complexity of all that stuff, while at the same time feeling the heat that nothing is allowed to go south.
Old 10th January 2019
  #1589
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
True story. We are only as good as our last gig.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G View Post
Still impressive that you guys manage the complexity of all that stuff, while at the same time feeling the heat that nothing is allowed to go south.
Old 6th February 2019
  #1590
This whole rig fits between a backpack and the shoulder bag for the mixer. (Although I typically end up travelling with a big Peli case with all of my extra mics, timecode bits and cabling)

There's no backup system, but I'm now so confident of the reliability of the Zoom F8 running on external power (Audioroot eSMART BDS and eSMART batteries) that I gladly put it into front-line service on mission critical recordings on a regular basis.
I own one set of the Audio Ltd A10's, but rent in extras when I need more. I run all my radios with DPA 4061 and 4061 Core microphones.
When I'm not just running radios I run a Schoeps CMC6xt MK41 or Sennheiser MKH 60 on my boom.
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